Can anyone who actually understands economics explain to me if Trump's tariffs make sense or have been good for the USA?

shut the fuck up goyim

you're not wrong

No one understands economics, by design.

you obviously don't seem to understand trade or finance so I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince you why its a good idea and how his tariffs work.

Just know that in the short term, it hurts everyone but long term, the weaker economy will need to make a deal and America can wait as long as possible to get the deal it wants.

The American economy is the strongest in history and can rely entirely on itself for an extended period of time, unlike most other nations.

The dismal science. Any working theory can be disproven at any time because human nature and it's chaos

Obviously tariifs are good because it will make manufacturing in China unattractive. So fewer companies take jobs to China.

no he nailed it.
you had three short but to the point answers, and you jumped in with kike tactic as soon as thread responses dried up.

this thread isn't worth anyone's time

GDP= government spending + (income-taxes) + investment
Less taxes=higher income= higher GDP
Increasing Government spending however will create a higher GDP than the same amount in cut taxes though
Government spending usually goes to the already wealthy however so lowering taxes helps more middle class families

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/thread

I wrote that like a retard but the point is sound

I thought we were talking about tax cuts I can do tariffs though

>Increasing Government spending however will create a higher GDP than the same amount in cut taxes though

this is true with one caveat - if the private sector has a desire to save instead of spend, it may not have the same effect because even though the money is there, it's not being used to buy goods and services

Basic negotiation tactic. He actually wants no tariffs on either side.

In an open economy
GDP= G+(I-T) +I + net exports
Increasing tariffs decreases imports
However most of the time the tariff will result in less exports as well and keep net exports at equalibium with a lower volume
The US has a very high negative net export It is so negative that tariffs don’t decrease imports at an equal rate

Which are reflected on the final consumer. Why should people pay a lot more for keeping a few jobs here?

Quite interesting, are there schools of thought that these theories belong to? Would like to look into this more.

That's because the traitors who made these deals got a fat sack of money in exchange for selling out the long-term prosperity of their own country. Similar to the majority of the toll roads in the US being leased to foreign companies, (companies that are usually controlled heavily by their government) for 99 years in exchange for a lump sum that pales in comparison to the long-term monetary gains, (the toll you and everyone else pays to use those roads) from holding those leases.

The US had been under attack from within for the better part of a century.

*decrease exports

That kinda happened with the Obama’s stimulus package instead of investing in the economy most states just paid off some of their debt with it

Have you ever met an economist? Blackpilled faggots the lot of em.

more like vectors or arraylists as there is no telling how many of them will show up. arrays must be well defined

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>who actually understands economics
Doctorate in economics here.

As a short-term bludgeon they are incredibly powerful tools of negotiation. These countries need us much more than we need them and their economies are built around American trade pacts.

Long-term effects of tariffs don't matter. They'll be dissolved by 2020 because no country is going to commit economic suicide to resist Trump.

Screencap this: Every country, including China and Canada, will sign a new trade deal with us within 16 months. Every single one.

Tariffs only work AFTER you become self-sufficient. Companies didn't leave America because of a lack of tariffs, but because of too many domestic regulations and other bureaucratic nonsense driving up production costs. Right now we import everything, so slapping a 30% tax on imports hurts everyone. Where we will really see an affect though is in the tech industry.

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Not complicated. This should easily be able to be explained to morons like you. The US has, since WW@, been treating every friendly country like its best friend. The US gave them great trade deals because it made sense long term in WW3 terms. They become less poor, and can make perhaps a plane or tank or two in WW3. Not complicated. What pisses off people that know, is the opposite. The world leeched itself into the US to control our domestic politics. Think about it, the US can effect the politics of every country on the earth like nothing. Every country on earth plays the same game in reverse inside the US. Mostly commies, but I digress.

Free trade, theoretically, increases the overall productive capacity of the countries that trade. But it also leads to factor price equalization, can have other effects on the distribution of wealth in society, as a practical matter tends to promote externalities like environmental damage, and can also have "network effects" where some manufacturing moving away draws other manufacturing since that's where the supply chains are.

So, it's possible to do trade right, i.e. correct for externalities like weak environmental and worker safety laws, redistribute the gains of trade to make sure it's pareto-improving, and have some industrial policy to keep the country from going full periphery.

By comparison, Trump's policies are knee-jerk and clumsy. Are they better than status quo? Maybe, if they fuck with the Chinese, who are shit, but not if they fuck with are allies. Are Trump's policies good for the US? Maybe, depending how things turn out, but it's a crapshoot compared to more reasonable policy. Are they good in general? No. Trump is a well-known retard with no strategy and retard-tier policy ideas.

That is that the 'tarrifs' are just renormalizing our trade. Not really though, the Chinese, I mean Canadians, still fuck us over on diary. Its just ect ect down the list on trade items with the world. People thought it was a great idea at one point, when Europe was poor and helpless. Fair enough, but not now. Fuck'em.

This is basically what US did to USSR is the cold war.

Each side starts losing mana, the US knows it has more mana than its opponent. Eventually the opponent capitulates but the US is left with severely reduced mana.

Tariff's are a tactic.
The US is the top oil producer.
Germany gets most of the fuel from Russia.
The only other real places to get oil in the world other than the US are Russia, Iran, Venezuela, (Canada).
If we tariff steel and aluminum then it affects shipping from the US to China. The price here went up but only to the prices back when oil was $100 a barrel.
Now we can pressure Russia (being done), sanction Iran (also being done), fuck with Canada (easy peazy), and send the CIA to Venezuela (done and done) and oil will be back at $100 a barrel in no time.
Once the price of oil is back up, drop the tariffs like a used condom, steel remains the same price, you look like a hero, China has to drop their shit, then you win the trade deal and ass fuck them in negotiations.

Then we all smoke a fat blunt.

This is also a good answer.

>Government spending usually goes to the already wealthy
[citation needed]

>The US has a very high negative net export It is so negative that tariffs don’t decrease imports at an equal rate
I think it depends on what kind of retaliation we draw.

>toll roads
Fucking easterner barbarians

>The US had been under attack from within for the better part of a century.
At least since Reagan, really since Ford or Carter.

>Screencap this: Every country, including China and Canada, will sign a new trade deal with us within 16 months. Every single one.
We'll see. It's possible.

>Its like a game of chicken, whoever blinks loses. Whoever can take the pain wins. China feels it more then we do because of the meme economy.
On the other hand, they can just shoot people who whine about it too much. That kind of power does a lot to stabilize an economy.

Real bussines have to be built in the US first. I'm not sure why corpoations aren't investing in steel and aluminm plants yet. There's real, on the ground change that needs to happen. Whirlpool for example needs a large footprint in aluminum. Why they haven't bought in part or in whole an American producer is beyond me. Its ect ect. I see oppurtunities here and everybody is scared. No recession mid term because of the trepidation, but they need to get their shit together?

I could explain but I'm on phone and typing lots is suffering.

Look up Breton woods agreement
It's no longer a thing so there is no reason for USA to have no tariffs anymore which countries that tarif them. As far as trade war is concerned USA is almost entirely insulated from the affects where as most other countries are almost entirely dependent on the global market which the USA has been propping up since ww2 for the sake of fighting Russia economically.

The US government used to be funded entirely by tariffs until they found out they could get away with taxing scared citizens once again.

trump can go to $825bn

Because US politics makes for unstable manufacturing.

Nothing is stable here in the long term anymore. People are unwilling to invest in anything for 40 years. That's why millenials are all deadbeats and poor. They all think it's stupid to buy a house when they can rent for the same price or slightly less. They don't grasp that one is an investment and the other is just throwing money into a pit.

The political system so so cyclical that you can't take long term risk. It's a guaranteed loss. Look at Trump. He builds sweet condo buildings, opens them, sells them, hires a ton of people, then the political climate changes and it all crumbles. It happened to him twice. Why would you risk everything to open an aluminum plant when in 2 years or even 6 some other lunatic or bunch of lunatics might get in office and pass a bunch of laws and make it impossible for you to run it?

Its bad, real bad.

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Should we all lay down and die then?! Throwing it back in your face here. I'm not ready yet.

The United States and the west for the most exported their industrial capacity to the pacific rim nations. The end goal is build up the industrial base of the west again and cut off china's blood supply. These tariffs will probably never go away and will only increase with time. If you need some chinkshit merchandise (for what fucking reason idk) nows the last time to get it.

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Depends if you want kikes to import more chinese plastic idols of their ayylmao synagogue of satans demagogues pedo occult blasphemous cgi abominations rendered against Gods celestial mirror in the antichrist image of babylonian usury.

In laymens terms, tarriffs mean globalist kikes btfo from their sham ghost city steel commodity market manipulation and oil oligarch racketeering and shuts down the fiat inflation of chinese hacker units of CnC generals from using communist issued currency to fuel bitcoin conversion and liquidity swaps with the startup coinpurse companies by loading their balance sheets with devalued yuan while the lolbertarian crypto anarchist lapdogs buy up the 666 minted currency like lemmings using all the usd in their piggy banks. China plays dirty, Trump corrected the market after obama let chinks buy the chicago commodity exchange and consume the kikes mk ultra mass media manchurian celebrity globalist culture.

Ron Paul's prisoner's dilemma strategy:
>ignore the other player's prior actions/tendencies
>always cooperate

You can't get back stolen freedom for free.

I hope they set this stagnant world on fire.

You need to understand the average Jow Forumstard is a retard who has no understanding of economics.
So if they cheer for a trade war with Canada or Mexico then its easy to tell its a bad idea.
China though wouldn't be such a bad idea as they are a direct enemy. Problem is the US does benefit from China and this trade war will cost quite a few people.
The jobs sent to China will most likely never come back, regardless what the average Jow Forumstard tells you. Trump isn't even trying to get those jobs back.
This trade will hurt both countries, mainly China.
But most likely not much will come from it. China could possibly wait it out till 2020 since its not likely Trump will get reelected.
But if the economic problems get really bad for China then China could just make some new bullshit trade deal with Trump that doesn't really do anything new for the most part but is simply propaganda for Trump to wave to his mindless supporters.
All in all its a waste of time that will hurt the US for no reason whatsoever. If Trump really was serious about going after China he'd be keeping trade alliances with other countries like South Korea, Mexico, EU, Canada, etc. to close down on China. Instead he's fighting every country for a petty propaganda victory.

The problem with tariffs is you need something to barter with for them to work and the US hasn't manufactured shit in decades.

Good luck paying 15 dolars an hour to convince welfare jamal to make your electronics.

JS arrays, never trust them

Yea they are great and not only Canada is losing, China is too

How old is ron? Is he gonna live to see 1929-2 and the new new deal or newest deal the best deal, as trump will call it?

Tariffs are bad for both the country they are applied to and the country applying them.

However, they can be an used effectively as a weapon if the applying country can withstand the damage better than the receiving country.

Since all the basedboys and other faggots I hate are squealing about this I'm certain the tariffs are a good thing.

At this point in time no country can stand the damage against America. To say the world revolves around the USD would be accurate.

Lowering taxes directly aimed at Paychecks, He wants the people to get off of welfare, Most people who work for MCgetting fat and Wallchina are on foodstamps... This is what Kike was about... the Oligarchs are sending mystery shoppers and running buysel bots to atrifically inflate stock prices. 2 niggers and a kike, fuck them... Target their Children.

Europe has something called VAT a flat 20% tax on anything imported that is not made in EU. Look bro... I dont care... but if every ones taxing America, than we NEED to do the same... Everybody Taxes Americans.... but When We tax them back EVERY BODY LOSES their Minds!!! Oh How Unfair! The Americans are dumping the tea again!!! This is unfair, Everybody Taxes America, Decimated Industry.... and Everybody loses their shit when we tax them back...

Trumps Tarrifs, are not helping and not hurting America. But We now Tax right back upon those who unfairly tax You and me and Trump is bringing Industry back...
Trump is bringing Industry and lower taxes for the middle Class.

Trump is a Champion.

The us stopping all inports is a good thing for itself. The US has trade deficit. So exports say give the us $10 but the imports cost $20. Stopping all imports (using tariffs) would grow he us economy by $10.
voxday.blogspot.com/search?q=free https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=PiHIKslRhCA

no, tariffs are retarded. when you increase the tariffs or chinese products, for example, you're punishing 300 million americans that buy their products. you're essentially making every american poorer, just because?

>apply tariffs
>everything is now more expensive
>exports drop from retaliation tariffs
Nice move.

I'll let the administration explain it themselves:
youtube.com/watch?v=eRnIse9v_jc

China engages in dishonest policies so we're punishing them with reciprocal measures until they play nice.

Also the economy is doing great lol. Look outside.

id rather pay more for stuff than have no job

>Lets remain dependent on chinese plastic because consumerism
no

Very well put

The opportunity for repeat trials isn’t exactly in a controlled environment either

Because niggers blow all their money the moment they get it, they think everyone else will too. Nobody is going to willingly continue their poverty just for the altruistic idea of kickstarting the economy; as if you could do it overnight to begin with

This is missing the central cog in China's economic engine: cheating

These retaliatory tariffs aren't appearing in a "free trade" vacuum. China certainly doesn't engage in free trade, which makes these libertardian arguments even dumber. We aren't starting from an ideal baseline, and letting ourselves be the suckers to avoid a temporary trade war isn't a solution to their cheating. Punishing them for their unfair practices is.

yep

The tariffs themselves are hurting trade and hindering economic growth while raising commodity prices.

However....

Trump has been using these tariffs as a threat to try and negotiate better trade deals with foreign countries which is a good idea. For the past 30 years our government has pursued trade deals like the TPP (which Trump withdrew from) that prioritize global economic growth and thus the growth of American based international companies over the growth of American industry, American jobs and the American economy. Trump is attempting to renegotiate many of our trade relationships and he's using tariffs to force other countries to the negotiating table.

If Trump can negotiate better trade deals then it should help the American economy. If however he leaves the tariffs in place though then its essentially a tax on American imports that American consumers and business will pay in the form of higher prices for foreign goods.

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>here
Vietnam and Mexico*

id rather pay more for stuff than have no job

raising prices is not an argument
its 0 sum

>implying the US doesn’t have a retardedly high MP5
Kys

you just described every thread on pol to ever happen ever

if tarrifs cause something to go up in price then the wages of whoever is getting payed to build that thing in america goes up

0 sum

If you promote globalism, then they’re bad. It’s subjective based on objective in every respect

It did for a long time after WWII until EU cake into being

>if tarrifs cause something to go up in price then the wages of whoever is getting payed to build that thing in america goes up

Tariffs rise the price of imported goods. This includes both finished products that consumers buy as well as raw materials used by industry which raises operating costs for industry.

The price of goods would go up because of higher operational costs which must be passed on to the consumer in order to maintain the same profits the company was making before. So there are higher prices but not higher profits and thus no extra profits to increase wages with as you contend.

The cost of living would likely go up due to higher commodity prices while wages stayed the same.

So as I said tarriffs are good as a threat to get better trade deals; but in the long term they hurt most economic sectors.

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its not zero sum, that's retarded

It's a quick taxation via back door..imagine the manufacturer would put these tariffs on their products' prices 1:1 and people still buy like before..then the US state gets that surplus straight out of the consumers pockets.
In the mid to longterm these actions are bad for all countries involved.

ya and you dont need "imported goods"

the second trump throws a tarrif on something then immediately america comes out with many more companies offering that product

and thus you get higher wages and more jobs in america so you actually gain from using tariffs because having high quality jobs is more important for the long term

>more jobs in america
Vietnam and Mexico*

more jobs = higher wages because people can pick their job again and it forces employers to have to compete for the employee

throw tarrifs on vietnam and mexico too

Economics happens in the real world, and as such real world considerations like national security and geopolitics affect the policy decisions of all states. Also, China doesn't even have free markets internally, the whole country is a giant distorted mess. Check out the videos on the "ghost cities" on youtube.

that's not true. Your economy has like a 25-30% exposure to exports, the whole model is built on buying the worlds trade surplus with a strong dollar.
You are becoming a service society, you are trying to apply 60s economics to new world 2.0.
>'When the US sneezes, the world catches a cold'
You are intertwined with markets, your whole economical system is based on globalization and being a soldier of fortune, your economy is peaking right now thanks to Obama while you set everything up for a slo-mo crash.

Let's put it like this:
> You develop amazing technology.
> I don't know how to make this technology, only you do.
> I want to buy your technology
> I need dollars to buy your shit
> Only way I can get dollars is selling you my shit
> You think to yourself, "well, they really want my new technology, so it's pretty much a sure thing that whatever dollars I give them in trade, they're giving me right back for my new technology".
> So, you have very low, if any, tariffs on my products entering your market, because you know I'm going to spend a lot of what I make right back in your businesses.

But then one day I get "smart", and I start bribing your people, hacking your computers, inserting my agents into your companies and universities and I start learning how you make the stuff that I want, by legal and illegal means, and, guess what, after a while I start making that stuff myself and competing with you in other markets, including your own internal market, while no longer wanting to buy your technology since I can make it myself now. It no longer makes sense for you to let me sell my shit to you with no tariffs, particularly if I tariffs the hell out of your shit when it enters my own market.

This is simplicity itself. Reciprocity. I deal with you fairly, you deal with me fairly. You fuck with me, I fuck with you.

The more important questions lie in why was Trump the first president to do this when the problems that motivated these actions have already existed for decades.

>service economy is a good thing
>thanks obama

hahahahahahh

this conversation was had last night. we need a dictator... BRING.... ON.... FASCISM

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>thanks obama
>YOU DIDNT BUILD THAT

>your economy is peaking right now thanks to Obama
Wrong. Get educated.

youtube.com/watch?v=LL-XB7rw4OM

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Service society is perfectly normal for every advanced society, Obama has nothing to do with it.
What Obama did is nationalize banks and resell them after the crisis, US was much harder on banks than europe.
What he also did is carefully guide the Dow with the help of FED to processing the first rate-hikes without bigger hickups, something a desolate economy would never have survived.
He reduced unemployment, doubled Dow Jones, and provided liquidity via QE (which is =/= money printing) and slowly led the dollar currency from century lows to being a strong world currency again.
The icing on the cake would have been TTIP which would have handed the EU's ass on a silver platter to you mutts while containing the chinese.
No user, you got played, I'm not sure by whom but what I know is who will be shorting markets before all of you:
your cabinet of GS.

Tariffs drive up the cost of whatever good is being taxed (assuming some volume of that good is being imported in the first place). Domestic producers of that good will make more, but there's a deadweight loss in overall efficiency (because there was a reason people were buying imports in the first place), such that the "boon" to domestic producers of the good with a tariff on it is more than offset by the loss to domestic buyers in the form of higher prices.

This

Depends what the kikes decide. Likely they will stand against it and America will lose trillions.

>say you're not doing something
>literally do it in the same post
fuck off, anybody responding past this post is a retard taking bait
basil

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