Do civilized people create civilization or does civilization create civilized people?

Do civilized people create civilization or does civilization create civilized people?

How you answer this question may determine whether or not you are a nationalist.

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A womans fear of her husband creates a civilized women. Civilized women raise civilized men. Civilized men create civilization.

Both.

Civilization is the product of a surplus. Before civilization existed all energy was spent in the production of food. As soon as food sources were secure with the rise of agriculture, then energy was able to be spent in other pursuits. Engineering, philosophy, science are all products of that Surplus.

Civilized people create civilization.

This should be readily apparent given the United States' 400 year experiment with the North American pavement ape.

Is it possible to civilize the savages? In other words, can third world people be transformed into first world citizens?

OP thinks he is being so clever with this brainlet thread not realizing he is just asking who came first the egg or the chicken. Yes it is possible to civilize the savages but not at your own detriment, not with gibs and bringing them to your homeland.

Social cues have to be learned from a very young age. This can even be observed in families with only one child. the child struggles with communication, and fails to delay gratification when dealing with others.

Culture is a thing. It's certainly possible to shine Third Worlders into something resembling civilization but the final result would be unique to their culture. Western Civilization is the product of a culture influenced through its struggle to form civilization. This is why Africans will never succeed in the West and be perpetually ghettoized.

Civilization is a creation made by intelligent (perhaps "civilized") people.
It is a method of organization that seeks to unite a large amount of people into a larger unit, allowing more efficient allocation of labor and more effective specialized training.
Under such a system, each individual person has fewer skills than they would "naturally," but the skills that they do have are enormously improved.

Civilization has several tiers, wherein each tier is created using several units of the immediately lesser tier:
>0 - Individual, a single person
>1 - Family, a collection of individuals usually related by blood
>2 - Clan, a collection of smaller families usually based on blood relation or a history of friendly interaction and alliance
>2 - Village or Community, a collection of families based on geographical proximity
>3 - Township, a collection of Tier 2 units (usually Village/Community) working together for purposes such as manufacturing and agriculture
>3 - City-State, a collection of Tier 2 units (usually Clans) working together for the purposes of military, wealth, and political power. It is the first sovereign unit.
>4 - State, a collection of Townships together under a single governing City-State acting as a capitol. The capitol of power utilizes the productive capacity of the Townships to effieiently and effectively utilize shared resources.
>5 - Nation, a collection of States. Exists for the same reasons as a State, but on a largr scale. Specific structure varies.

Most sovereign units in the modern world are Tier 4 or Tier 5 civilizations.

Historically speaking, Africans, Indians, Asians, and Native Americans rarely form civilizations greater than Tier 2 without the assistance of other higher-tiered civilizations.

Native Americans had empires all over the place, and in Mesoamerica and the Andes, these were massive societies filled with multitudes of cities. Furthermore, India and China both have so-called cradles of civilization in them, and both developed not only massive cities but writjng as well.

sort of decent up until no 4.
a nation isnt a form of organisation, but an abstract idea of shared history on top of practical organisation

You forgot jews.

>try to civilize niggers for centuries
>they're still niggers
>user makes a gay thread about civilization

Why can't it be both in a sort of recursive feedback loop? This answer will probably get everyone mad at me

Bump.

East Asians have proven that they can compete with the West once that adopt Western institutions.

Yeah, I get what you mean.
"Empire" could fit more, but that implies a focus on military expansionism.
"Union" perhaps?

Fear won't make shit, you need respect and admiration.

I said rare, not nonexistant.
And by Native American I specifically meant the northern continent. I should have specified that. I usually separate north and south natives may have migrated in different times using different routes, with northern natives coming from what is now Asia and southern natives coming from what is now Polynesia.

South natives get the honor of being referred to by their civilization, such as Mayan or Incan etc.

I was specifically talking about people. I should have clarified that.

Civilization creates cucked men. Cucked men create uncivilized women.

Credit where it is due, Japan was able to reach tier 4 on its own even before it got westernized, but it took them forever to do so.