Anyone can make arguments against what happened in the USSR, or anywhere else communism was attempted, but give me some genuine, well-founded arguments against the actual opinions of Marx himself. What did he get horribly wrong?
Were his critiques of capitalism correct? Were his prescriptions dogshit? Do you think he is misunderstood? Please include in your post a specific idea that Marx held, and your thoughts on it.
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>that wierd ranting part of the mannifesto about women as property
>evenly distributing all the industrial, residential and agricultural land across the country to end urban and rural classes but creating an impossible demand on public infrastructure and spiking transport costs
>thinking value is based on labour and not demand
>only worked for two years in his entire life then live off the profits of a friend who owned a factory
Marx is 200 years out of date and wasnt even modern when he first came out.
I just don't like his stupid haircut
>>that wierd ranting part of the mannifesto about women as property
wtf i love marx
He was an inexperienced twat who never had a job, never paid a bill, never worked a day in his life and was supported by his rich gay lover.
It is as if some bum on the street wrote a fucking rambling schizophenic wish list for some fantasy land without any basis in reality and suddenly every inexperience child was taught that his drug addled ramblings abou fantasy land were somehow the solution to all of the ills of man all while ignoring he was a drug addled bum that lived under a bridge, played niughtcrawlers and ate catpiss catfood with charlie.
>He was an inexperienced twat who never had a job, never paid a bill, never worked a day in his life and was supported by his rich gay lover.
I always hear mongs say retarded shit like this, how is this even an argument?
Marx didn't understand human systems of value. All of his writings indicate this. Marx was a shut-in power autist r9k-tier NEET, and his writings are pure phantasmatic speculation of how other humans' value structures should operate.
Notice that Marx uses prescriptive writing to a descriptive point, this is the hallmark of Autism.
Sure, Marx was a strong supporter of free trade, because he knew it would impoverish workers, and possibly radicalize them into being marxist. What kind of shit head wants to actively harm the people he claims to care about? No he was a lying fuck that only cared about his delusions of grandeur.
Some of his critiques are correct; like the fact that capitalism deracinates cultures.
Basically because he got every single prediction/theory wrong. Value is subjective and comes from utility not labor, nationalism is a far stronger force than class identity, capitalism did not continue beating down the middle/lower classes into worse and worse standards of living, human beings are selfish and tribal by nature. I'm sure there's dozens of others I missed but that's fine for now.
The greatest delusion marxists labor under is the idea that they are fighting for the working class, when in reality the working class despises them more than anything.
No, that's the jews.
hurt them? the workers are being fucked over under capitalism and they don't want to change to socialism because of indoctrination leading to false consciousness.
if you get rid of the elements that forged that false conciousness like all the things the social democracy gives the workers, class consciousness kicks in and socialism ensues.
this is not difficult to understand and it's not morally wrong just because people can't afford netflix.
...really?
Capitalism (and Marxism) both facilitate Jews corrupting cultures tho.
Japan is ultra-capitalist and heavily racinated.
I'll just drop this ten-tonne red pill right...
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archive.org
I've never killed someone, are my critiques of those who kill invalid untill I do so?
what if "I've only killed for 2 years" as opposed to the average man that kills for decades?
are you legitimately this retarded?
this is a non argument.
This.
Of course! We should be looking to literal BUMS for the solution to our economic and social shortcomings!
After all, who knows more about fiscal responsibility than a gay alcoholic hobo?]
do you think there's another option?
No, you're thinking of liberalism
it never works cause the people who are suppossed to enforce it take all the money
And your solution is Communism, a movement that is funded by the same Capitalists, the best way to control the opposition to something is to lead it yourself, Vladimir Lenin, who was put on a train to Czarist Russia by the Warburg banking family, or Leon Bronstein who was caught by the Canadian authority's with a large sum of gold, yet some how was released and permitted to travel to his destination? I guess those international capitalist bankers were funding bolsheviks out of the goodness of their hearts and not some other motive.
and the people that enforce capitalism don't? what makes them different?
Japan is culturally homogenous and still has a lot of authoritarian elements.
They don't import cheap labor for one thing either, a very anti-(Western)-capitalist to do.
I think you can commodisize culture in a way that is still culturally consistent if your capitalists come from the same stock as your consumers. Like in Japan.
Jewish capitalism and globalism have been implicitly destroying Western ideals and culture
>culture
fantastic strawman
now please tell me, do you think there's an option other than socialism and capitalism?
When is the real communism going to be tried out? I'm really excited for this!
Got a page number?
Neo liberalism is capitalism.
Capitalism, socialism dichotomy is a stupid Jewish truck because they are just tools in the hands of masters.
USA is already socialist; it's just not for white men. It's for poor brown retards and corporate welfare.
White Nationals need to stop defending capitalism right now because it no longer serves is and in fact does the opposite.
If we ever got our own state, then I would support capitalism 100%
This sounds like a response of a gay commie faggot. I believe you honestly when you say you don't understand.
The labour theory is bullshit; I can spend years of my life crafting a giant cock in my house and it will be absolutely worthless. Value isn’t determined by work, it’s determined by want.
he then goes on about why Communism/Socialism doesn't seek to destroy nationalities and cultures.
yes, he adressed this 170 years ago and right wing conservative retards keep using it as an argument, fucking pathetic.
>non answer
couldnt've expected any less from an anti socialist single digit IQer
Can I get a link to this faggot in your pic?
You need a helicopter ride
Well if neoliberalism is capitalism, you wouldn't support capitalism if we had our own state. Neoliberalism is the problem. Or rather Liberalism as a whole. Nothing wrong with people buying and selling from other people, which is capitalism. The core idea of liberalism is individual liberty. It is the focus on individual liberty above all else that causes the deracination, not private commerce.
>niggers thinking they can argue with whites
This is what communism has gotten us. Demonstrably a failure.
that's because the quality of labour in your case is shit, that doesn't mean that however little that giant cock (made out of wood? marble? idk) is worth its value didn't come from labour, becaus it still did.
this comment of yours is based on the retarded notion that "under socialism doctors make the same money as janitors" the capitalists use as anti-socialist propaganda, and mongoloids like you eat it up.
look at all these non answers
superb, retards.
I don't hate Marx for trying his shitty plans. I think he was well intentioned and it's not like humanity knew how horrible Communism was going to be. I think he provided humanity with an extremely important lesson in how to powerful societies can come to destroy themselves.
Since I've got you here and your an actually communist can I ask some questions? Why do you think communism would be any better than captilism for the working class and do you realise they are both Jewish controlled ideologies? Both destroy nationalistic idealism and homogenous ethnic states.
>that's because the quality of labour in your case is shit,
Well done. You debunked communism
Jow Forums basics
>Who we are against.
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>What we do. What we want.
youtube.com
White supremacist, Nazi,Alt-right among others are just labels given to those who speaks for white people and to those whites who want to preserve their culture,heritage & identity. So situation is like -Die or be the "bad guy"
No you moron, it comes from Marx's notion that value is derived from labor, when it clearly isn't.
"Of course, the Marxian definition of value is ridiculous. All the work one cares to add will not turn a mud pie into an apple tart; it remains a mud pie, value zero. By corollary, unskillful work can easily subtract value; an untalented cook can turn wholesome dough and fresh green apples, valuable already, into an inedible mess, value zero. Conversely, a great chef can fashion of the same material a confection of greater value than a commonplace apple tart, with no more effort than an ordinary cook uses to prepare an ordinary sweet."
how? are you seriously this fucking dumb?
jesus christ.
It's just fundamentally flawed start to finish. How do you motivate people to improve their lot in life when they cannot do so proportional to the amount of work they invest?
Where are you going to find these benevolent angels to run society for you, who are immune to greed, immune to being filled with emotion watching their family die because they aren't next in line at the hospital or who are immune to they themselves dying or growing sick and not wanting to place their good above others for their own selfish desires?
And you're still a worthless cabecita negra, with no opinions that a white man should consider for an instant.
I’ve done a number on you
National socialism.
see
there's private property under Nazism.
that's capitalism.
>Notice that Marx uses prescriptive writing to a descriptive point
Can you explain what this means?
Please die.
Ah yeah I see.
The problem I see is that capitalism is giving these people too much power and I'm not sure capitalism can fix it. Revolution is the answer and historically capitalist conservative revolutions seem to be very rare.
I mean look at social media it's getting to the point none of us can even get our ideas out there. How do we guide the force of power if we can't even speak on private platforms. We have to collectivise, at least temporarily
>literally never worked a day in his life
>spent his life immersed in books
>thinks people will work together for the common good
>doesn't understand how humans need incentives
His ideas were built in fantasy land with no real world evidence to support them.
Antifa
>more non answer
kys, retard.
No u
Holy shit. This is some nigger tier logic. The reason people don't treat your "arguments" seriously is that your so pathetic you don't even realise how athletic you are an still expect others to respect the garbage spewing from your mouth.
LTV, and "surplus labor" have been refuted. Dialectics is a psudeoscience.
This.
And this is why western society is currently in jeopardy because there a bunch of rich quasi intellectuals who never worked a real job in their life running around spewing shit like this when they fail to realize it has no practical application in the modern world.
>non answer
are you implying there's no private property of the means of production in Nazism?
you know that's the definition of capitalism, right?
but yeah, I'm wrong (even though I'm literally right) and your retarded post with not even a single argument is correct.
The arguments over practicality of socialism are retarded. We already have socialism and it's working, it's just not for us.
N-no u.
Communists are some hell of a deceptive insect type of creature aren't they? Starting off nicely then getting absolutely ass blasted when proven wrong over and over. AND. OVER. I BET YOU'RE NOT EVEN BLACK HAHA
There is literally nothing wrong with private property. Private ownership by itself is not solely capiltisitc. If I catch a fish, it's mine. The this back 5000 years ago it's still mine. Even without captilism I'd try to kill you if you took my property
here is an irrefutable explanation of why communism can never work.
Socialism according to Marx exists only to bridge the gap between the necessary evil of capitalism and the inevitable 'utopia' of communism
Under communism, the means of production are owned, by definition, by the state.
Under communism there exists no free market as the state sets prices.
Without subtracting the input from the output, one cannot do cost accounting. It cannot be determined if production is more efficient under communism than under capitalism, or if production is more efficient than last week, or if it is even profitable at all, as "profits" are illegal.
You use your money to buy flour, yeast, rent an oven for a day, ect. Why do you do this? To bake bread. Why? Because you have determined and bet that there is a market for bread. You invest $50 and bake 50 loaves. So $1/loaf is your input cost. Your research says people will pay $2 or more for good bread every day, but they'll only pay $0.50/loaf for shitty bread. So, if you bake shitty bread you'll only be able to sell it for $25, half of the cost of production, a loss. But, if you are reasonably sure you can bake great bread, you may invest the time and money to bake 50 loaves and sell them for $100. It cost you $50 to make so your profit is $50, you have doubled your money, pretty good.
But under socialistic conditions, there can never be any cost accounting. That's why there is always bread lines and famines in communist countries, even in breadbaskets like Ukraine and Rhodesia/Zimbabwe. Communism is genocide. Socialism and democracy must be opposed as a moral imperative.
The elites know that communism is a sick joke that can never work and they revel in tricking the goyim into doing their bidding, the logic is, if theyre too stupid to realize its a trick, then they deserve slavery
It's a matter of time. In the US, white conservatives have twice as many children as white liberals, who are aborting themselves into extinction. This is why you should be as pro choice as possible. Let them kill their future foot soldiers if they wish. Without debating the usefulness or morality of planned parenthood, it may be verified by observation that any group which stops its own increase gets crowded out by groups which expand.
And since most conservatives live in the center of the country, while more liberals live on the coasts we'll automatically be grouped closer together, and will feel the dull pressure of being surrounded by other nations, just as Germany does. Over the course of the next 60 years or so, the white population will, on average, be more inland, more concentrated, more conservative, and much, much angrier.
By that time, we might be outnumbered, it's true. But we'll still be the single largest group. And I doubt all the different minorities can work together long enough to present any kind of challenge. Victory might not come to us. It will come to our children and grand children.
(((They))) happened.
A-fucking-men
bump
Lol you retarded sudaca.
The LTV has been debunked. Marginalism has been prove to be correct in theory AND practice. Diamonds are worth a shitton more than water, yet the latter has far more utility than the former.
Virtually no modern ecnomist takes the LTV or the concept of "surplus labor" (which doesn't exist) seriously for a damn good reason.
That's not how it works
>There is literally nothing wrong with private property.
I pointed out "of the means of production" because I had doubts about you being even more retarded than you seemed and not knowing that private property and personal property are different.
not to mention that this wasn't the argument, the argument was about Nazism being capitalist or not, it's capitalism.
but yes, private property is morally wrong.
>Private ownership by itself is not solely capiltisitc.
yes it is, it's literally the definition of capitalism.
>If I catch a fish, it's mine.
yes, the fish is your personal property, not private property.
So are you advocating for theft? It's his personal property, hence private.
Why can't commies refrain from taking the food away?
>non arugments
>proving me wrong over and over again
literally haven't seen a single arument in your posts, only insults, like the little retard that you are.
notice how I insult you after I made the argument, which you never did.
you're mentally challenged.
>arugments
>arument
Stay mad commie
>twat who never had a job, never paid a bill, never worked a day in his life
Wrong.
>how is this even an argument?
It is not, but since Jow Forumstards don't have arguments, they have to resort to ad hominem.
What he got wrong is that his ideas killed more people during peace time than both World Wars combined. What don't you understand?
Look, a memeflag ! Thanks god I now know whose opinion I can safely discard
I catch a shitton or fish, and I want to sell them for a profit at my self-employed fish stand. Is this "exploiting" myself and my labor?
Fuck off you retard. My family has sizable land in a rural area with cottage. Would I still be able to keep this in your failure of an ideology?
>personal isn't private
Now tell me gender and sex are different.
>Were his critiques of capitalism correct
Some of it was correct AT THAT TIME. Trying to apply a 19th century economic theory to the 21st century, with automation around the corner, is laughable.
The world is nearing something similar to the industrial revolution. Marx is horribly out of date. No one takes him seriously beyond a small number of idiotic rich kids who want to appear edgy (aka antifa and assorted vermin). Even self proclaimed followers of Marx dropped all his economic iedas in the 50s and 60s and started focusing on culture as they realized his theories were waaay out of date even back then.
He probably thinks he'd be a High ranking party member
>So are you advocating for theft?
where does this retarded question come from? when have I said that I would take his fish?
fuck you're stupid.
>It's his personal property, hence private
you said 2 different things.
personal property =/= private property.
>Why can't commies refrain from taking the food away?
ah yes, muh famines, which are much more common in capitalism, but let's ignore that, otherwise you wouldn't have an """argument""" against socialism.
Critique of capitalism was essentially wrong. Class contradictions were eventually sorted out. He was right on dehumanization, rationalization, and destruction of social relations, though.
He didn't take into account that humans are naturally selfish, and I don't mean "Oh I'll happily do so and so for my friends for free" but as in "What? The government is going to do that? What the fuck, that's my shit". On a grander scale humans resort to capitalistic thinking, Even in the USSR, China, Vietnam and so on, it's never real Communism, these countries are/were capitalistic systems, because Communism cannot function on such a grand scale as being instituted in a country. A tribe of 100 people maybe, a country of 50 million or more? No.
Stay mad white boi
Just had a bunch of autistic socialists ranting about this the other day. They can't possibly believe you support private property, so then they try to explain that you don't understand it. They do this full well knowing that they're the only ones who value the distinction.
Like this
>I catch a shitton or fish, and I want to sell them for a profit at my self-employed fish stand. Is this "exploiting" myself and my labor?
are you retarded? no, it isn't.
>My family has sizable land in a rural area with cottage. Would I still be able to keep this?
if you use it yes, if you don't, no.
if it used by your emplyoees, you can't keep it either.
>non argument
why is this so common with you retards?
want is infinite, work is finite, as are resources.
Tell you what, when you convince the conscious, woke crowd that the "experiences" of being black, gay, trans, latino, etc. are not intellectual arguments that can be used to invalidate an opinion of someone.
>White male, opinion discarded.
What those users are saying isn't intellectually sound either, but its a knee jerk response to the sort of Marxist-Critical-Race-Theory bullshit.
>proportional to the amount of work they invest?
This is exactly what socialism does, people are rewarded for the work they do. Compared to capitalism, where people simply own capital and sit around being lazy hiring workers to work and skimming off the top.
Das rite white boi, we be takin yor women now
Capitalism isnt an ideology that certain groups advocate for, it is a description of the ways human beings exchange goods and services. Socialism is the attempt to write essays that prescribe a different set of rules for the exchange of goods and services. If you believe in socialism to any extent you are a fool.
>They can't possibly believe you support private property
when have I said this?
he's using personal property and private property interchangeably, which under socialism that'd be wrong, and we're arguing about socialism.
>They do this full well knowing that they're the only ones who value the distinction.
yes, we're arguing about socialism, I'm gonna use the definition of private property under socialism, how is this wrong?
are you diagnosed with downs syndrome or something?
>>thinks people will work together for the common good
this is false, marxism is based on the idea that people will always work for their own best interests. It is in the workers best interest for the means of production to be collectively owned by the workers, and not capitalists.
Yeah mate that's pretty much it.
>Marxist-Critical-Race-Theory
No such thing ever existed. Marx never wrote about race.
>Feudalism isnt an ideology that certain groups advocate for, it is a description of the ways human beings exchange goods and services. Capitalism is the attempt to write essays that prescribe a different set of rules for the exchange of goods and services. If you believe in Capitalism to any extent you are a fool.
Yo be stealin da man spirits white boi