Nazis build UFOs

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foo_fighter
>The first sightings occurred in November 1944, when pilots flying over Western Europe by night reported seeing fast-moving round glowing objects following their aircraft. The objects were variously described as fiery, and glowing red, white, or orange. Some pilots described them as resembling Christmas-tree lights and reported that they seemed to toy with the aircraft, making wild turns before simply vanishing. Pilots and aircrew reported that the objects flew formation with their aircraft and behaved as if they were under intelligent control, but never displayed hostile behavior. However, they could not be outmaneuvered or shot down.

Then, 20 years after the war this
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kecksburg_UFO_incident
>The Kecksburg UFO incident occurred on December 9, 1965, at Kecksburg, Pennsylvania, United States.
several years after the war

inb4 its a weatherballoon or basedus capsule
>It streaked over the Detroit, Michigan – Windsor, Canada area, reportedly dropped hot metal debris over Michigan and northern Ohio,[1]

page 91 of
vault.fbi.gov/UFO/UFO Part 12 of 16/view
Prisoner of war talking about a "circular aircraft" rising out of a german facillity during WW2. Also read 88

Just 1,5 pages, dont be lazy
cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/DOC_0005516188.pdf
Talks about a german engineer that worked on flying saucers

cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/DOC_0000015255.pdf
Talks about flying saucers in Argentina and Antarctica

2 men in eastern germany in metallic clothing jump into a flying saucer and fly away in east germany (document from 1952, no idea when the incident happened
cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/DOC_0000015464.pdf

german engineer saying sovjets have nazi UFO plans recovered
cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/DOC_0000015471.pdf

Attached: keksburg bell.jpg (727x490, 77K)

Other urls found in this thread:

query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9D04EED81F3BE433A25757C1A9649D946593D6CF&legacy=true
express.co.uk/news/history/771096/nazi-germany-nuclear-bomb-testing-blitz-world-war-ii-secret-intelligence-documents
mysteriousuniverse.org/2016/04/the-weird-tale-of-the-man-who-discovered-gravity-shielding-ufo-like-technologies/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_Podkletnov#Public_controversy
warosu.org/sci/thread/S8954365
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_submarine_U-864
youtube.com/watch?v=bSIzyk5Mjko
telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/ufo/8026971/Aliens-have-deactivated-British-and-US-nuclear-missiles-say-US-military-pilots.html
archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/186898035
cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP79B00752A000300130001-1.pdf
humansarefree.com/2016/07/nazi-angel-of-death-josef-mengele.html
discord
express.co.uk/news/science/634733/Do-demon-skulls-and-Nazi-briefcase-discoveries-prove-Third-Reich-contacted-ALIENS
totallychaos.com/scientists-discover-bizarre-nazi-chest/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Instrument_of_Surrender
opbw.org/int_inst/sec_docs/1907HC-TEXT.pdf
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Heusinger
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinhard_Gehlen
bundestag.de/presse/hib/2015_06/-/380964
globalresearch.ca/germany-italy-japan-and-the-un-charters-enemy-state-clause-obstacle-to-an-asian-and-european-peace/5457761
youtube.com/watch?v=QgNV_qRGHZI
youtube.com/watch?v=eA23BVO79WY
archive.org/stream/InterviewWithMr.WilhelmLandig/Interview with Mr. Wilhelm Landig_djvu.txt
youtube.com/watch?v=czW0iRJuH1A
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasus
de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ararat
sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080130170343.htm
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuya
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_(Genesis)
vault.fbi.gov/UFO/UFO Part 12 of 16/view
youtube.com/watch?v=T1W_iB1y9n8
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aos_Sí
x2-radio.com/phoenixsciencefoundation/npiee/history.html
x2-radio.com/phoenixsciencefoundation/npiee/updates.html
history.nasa.gov/SP-168/section1.htm
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_Australis
es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luz_mala
cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/DOC_0000015255.pdf
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_Cenote
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Dorado
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_children_of_Woolpit
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kecksburg_UFO_incident
youtube.com/watch?v=9wg9kW-VwTw
cnet.com/news/canadas-ex-defense-minister-aliens-would-give-us-more-tech-if-wed-stop-wars/
youtube.com/watch?v=4b4Hvlu7MGU
dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5398625/Demon-voices-school-gunman-attack-cops-called-39-times.html
archive.li/pIC4M
chakras.info/root-chakra/
youtube.com/watch?v=gVDIYFSygLg
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dazzler_(weapon)
youtube.com/watch?v=ghpjvXZ-5JY
youtube.com/watch?v=4DrdvXHA8Qk
wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/32795
archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/170561209/#170581818
archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/174267972/#174300829
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_language
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleo-Hebrew_alphabet
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinča_symbols
behindthename.com/name/adam
youtube.com/watch?v=xeUgDJc6AWE
wikileaks.org/gifiles/docs/12/1260460_1947-.html
youtube.com/watch?v=cGtvXOvqYZg
wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/1973BUENOS05632_b.html
wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/P790005-1028_e.html
archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/175292781
archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/185365200
archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/180380385/
archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/174968078/
archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/172178550/
archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/179314945
archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/185261304
knowledgeofancients.blogspot.com/
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

bump

Attached: 1493698337231.png (1600x975, 1.47M)

It's not a UFO if you can identify it

I just asked the magic 8 ball if the Nazis were coming back with advanced weaponry to conquer the earth.

Attached: 0E9691BD-85D3-4ED7-9C32-51B1F4D94A8E.jpg (590x682, 85K)

so funny people never get this

It's a NUFO

nazi ufo theory was created by the nazis that "fled" to the usa and their collaborators in the us government to ridicule real "conspiracies" and tech that got shipped over via operation paperclip.

all the data gathered in the concentration camps about genetics, euthanasia, chemicals (cancer treatment for example), MK (MenschenKontrolle) Ultra
and the fact that the uranium for the last tests and Little Boy came from the germans and were part of the payment for operation paperclip.

Had to do something with acoustic or electric wave levitation.

Same shit US military did that people thought were alien UFO.

Attached: hmmm.jpg (807x935, 107K)

Is Hitler alive and living inside the hollow earth?

Attached: B9FB706B-5D7B-46F7-8A8E-6C425AD4E7E5.jpg (533x660, 88K)

article in pic related you can read here for a few shekels
query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9D04EED81F3BE433A25757C1A9649D946593D6CF&legacy=true
otherwise you can confirm the headline for free

>implying that isnt a low key bait to get the thread bumped by smartasses like yourself
I meant saucer shaped aircrafts with unconventional propulsion technology

based

appreciated

the sightings go back since before the war ended seen by basically everyone. however it is true that germans got the nuke ready
express.co.uk/news/history/771096/nazi-germany-nuclear-bomb-testing-blitz-world-war-ii-secret-intelligence-documents

Attached: nyt mystery.gif (399x350, 40K)

allied and german pilots were jacked up on speed/cocaine and coffeine and sometimes flying for 48hours+ straight.

i won't doubt that they saw foo fighters and other stuff

well, i tried figuring out how they did it.
Of course I tried to figure out how the UFOs work too.
When looking into this stuff Victor Schauberger turns up frequently it seems when looking into the UFO stuff. pic related are what some suggest how the UFOs fly.
however i believe they combine a multitude of phenomena.
hey seem to work with electromagnetism from what i got. possibly even gravity shielding which would explain the UFO being able to fly maneuvers that would usually crush the pilot through the g forces which gets negated by the lack of mass through the gravity shielding.

mysteriousuniverse.org/2016/04/the-weird-tale-of-the-man-who-discovered-gravity-shielding-ufo-like-technologies/
here it talks about some guy claiming to managed to create gravity shielding resulting in a loss of 2% of the weight, which isnt much but if it works at all it only needs some finetuning to be valuable

from the guys wikipedia article
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_Podkletnov#Public_controversy
>In a BBC news item, it was alleged that researchers at Boeing were funding a project called GRASP (Gravity Research for Advanced Space Propulsion) which would attempt to construct a gravity shielding device based on rotating superconductors,[8] but a subsequent Popular Mechanics news item stated that Boeing had denied funding GRASP with company money, although Boeing acknowledged that it could not comment on "black projects".[9] It is alleged that the GRASP proposal was presented to Boeing and Boeing chose not to fund it.[10]
why specifically mention the blackproject instead of just saying "we dont do it?"

lots of civillians saw them too

Attached: schauberger effect.jpg (800x586, 96K)

this gravity shielding however makes me think of the supposed schumann levitator in pic related which you find on some of the UFO plans and is essantially the same as the gravity shielding, except that you switch the superconducting ceramic disc against an alluminium disc. combine those 2 and you might get some interaction enhancing the effects of both

made a thread about this device some while ago on /sci/. general consensus was it would lift things, but would be extremely inefficient
warosu.org/sci/thread/S8954365
but it working at all tells me that it just needs some finetuning to enhance its effects greatly

Attached: schumann levitator.png (706x498, 18K)

Another thing is that a lot of rumors are out there that the UFOs run on mercury. The old hindu texts for example (didnt read them myself yet, but thats what i heard) tell about the workings of the Vimanahs, ancient UFOs and they too seem to run on mercury. Pic related is supposedly telling about the workings of the glocke, also involving mercury. What makes this interesting is the following:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_submarine_U-864
>She departed from Kiel on 5 December 1944 on her last mission, to transport to Japan a large quantity of mercury and parts and engineering drawings for German jet fighters
>mercury and "jet fighters"

in this text which suppoesedly tells of the working of the glocke it seems it uses mercury mostly a solvent for other particles. i heard someone suggesting they induce it with magnetic particles like some kobald, so they can move it around by controlling the magnetic field essentially getting rid of mechanical moving parts as you now just have to readjust the magnetic field and the mercury will form itself like you want (assuming you can influence the magnetic field precise enough.) making it pretty much a shapeshifting UFO. allegedly you also can create energy/propulsion through a mercury vortex
youtube.com/watch?v=bSIzyk5Mjko

Attached: Instruction translated.jpg (1388x842, 304K)

Schauberger thought the best way to create something is by copying nature. His motto was "Natur kapieren und kopieren" "Understand nature and copy it".
Furthermore he stated that there are 2 fundamental principles which all technology underlies. The first one is the one we use for our technology. Explosion and pushing stuff around. think of the explosion in engines, how it produces pressure to push the car onward. bombs which are quite literally explosion. The electrons in our technology getting pushed through the wires by the pressure of the remaining electrons behind them. Fission reactors "exploding" atoms to create energy, similar to how coalburning works, destroying the raw material.
The other principle is the natural one which we should try to copy instead of what we use now. Implosion, which pulls everything. think of the gravity pulling everything together. The sun using fusion to create energy. Or even simpler, take a heavy block and push it. it woll most likely edge on the ground and block itself from moving needing more energy to move. If you pull it however it will glide smothly over the ground. He believed these to principles to be at work all around us.
Imagine the leader of a country staying at home and "pushing" his soldiers into battle. He will need propaganda to justify it, have to use force in some cases to get them there and threaten severe punishment for people to participate. However if the leader decides to fight on the front himself most people will follow him out of free will, because its apparently important enough that he himself is willing to risk his life, and is thus pulling the others into battle with a lot less effort.

Attached: Schaubeger.jpg (1222x837, 183K)

Now Nukes are pretty much the ultimate explosion and thus going ultimately against nature/god and so it makes sense they arent liked and if you believe the Byrd Diaries to be real those living inside the earth dont like nukes at all. UFOs also are reported to mess with Nukes and nuclear powerplants
telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/ufo/8026971/Aliens-have-deactivated-British-and-US-nuclear-missiles-say-US-military-pilots.html

Translated from Schaubergers german wikipedia article
>Machines he designated as "Repulsine" or "Repulsator" (Reichsflugscheibe/flying saucer), which he build to be used as transportgadget or for the creation of energy, was in the second worldwar tested during WW2 for its potential as Wunderwaffe (Wonderweapn). The claim that with his invention he could create free energy, which means the Repulsine would be factual a perpetuum mobile, goes against the law of thermodynamik

>In March 1946 Schauberger was released and in December 1946 the Schaubergers resettled to Linz. The Americans didnt confiscate his workshop and laboratory material, but supposedly forbade him to continue to research the Repulsine (Reichsflugscheibe/Flying Saucer)

Here a thread from another user on Schauberger and his believes
archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/186898035

Attached: byrd diary.png (1649x797, 895K)

>Admiral Richard E Byrd made the announcement today that the United State are required to take protective meassures against the possibillity of an Invasion of the country though hostile aircafts originating from the polar area
>The Admiral said that he didnt want to scare anyone, but the bitter reality is that in case of a new war the United States could be attacks by aircrafts that can fly from pole to pole.
>The Admiral stated the necessity to be in a state of alert and watchful along the whole icebelt which would be the last fortitude against an invasion.
what did he mean by this?

Attached: Byrd pole to pole complete.jpg (1725x919, 798K)

You should remove some of the obviously shoop/fake ones like the one on the top left with the chick if you want that pic taken seriously.

pic related refers to
cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP79B00752A000300130001-1.pdf

the adamski photograph is from 1952, 7 years after the war.

looks more real to be than the moonlanding pics desu

Attached: CIA Haunebu.png (956x2394, 880K)

aside from nazi UFOs seen after the war (kecksburg acorn and the adamski photograph from earlier) Mengele is another sign that germans projects continued: for example he fled to brazil and continued his research there apparently. the village in which he took cover has the highest birthrate of twins in the world, and now look how they all look (pic related)

an user mentioned he read that german scientists from project paperclip were still communicating with each other and people outside the country.in argentina where many nazis fled to is San Carlos de Bariloche. this place had a lot of germans and even a plastic surgery clinic which could be used to distort peoples appearence so they arent tracked down easily and can lead a normal live. georg anton pöch is rumord to be hitlers new personality.
the nazis from paperclip that were put into secret agencies could have covered for both, the communication, and the creation of new personalities.

maybe the scientist just stayed loyal to germany and didnt spit out the secrets and played dumb and just fed the authorities some breadcrumps.
project paperclip, instead of a bunch of traitors, may have been a trojan horse instead.

Also to note is that the people in the village thought that Mengele is a veterinarian and thus let him check up on the pregnancies since he had some medical practice and knowledge, however i didnt find anything about Mengele doing something to the women or giving them special medicine. This makes me believe there is a very easy way to trigger a twinbirth, a right touch, sound or whatever at the right moment (probably at the very beginning)

humansarefree.com/2016/07/nazi-angel-of-death-josef-mengele.html

also since these threads tend to get shut down i made a discord server. however since it got difficult to find new info on this we went into other conspiracies as well
discord gg/3sRdEk

Attached: mengele twins.png (640x360, 480K)

Germanon. I have noticed you don't understand physics but, if you are truly interested in going down this rabbit hole, I will suggest you look up the following terms: Ionocraft, Meissner Effect, Red Mercury, LiH6, Tritium.

Attached: nordtempeltür.jpg (2976x3968, 1.5M)

Get your eyes checked. This is a terrible shop.

Attached: Capture.png (204x149, 70K)

Operation high jump

Some time ago they discovered a grave deep in the mountains of russia.
express.co.uk/news/science/634733/Do-demon-skulls-and-Nazi-briefcase-discoveries-prove-Third-Reich-contacted-ALIENS
totallychaos.com/scientists-discover-bizarre-nazi-chest/
In there they found a crate containing among some other stuff 2 skulls of unknown origin (look into the article to see those. Could very well be the skull of a grey alien, which i believe to be demons though. It also contained a letter (pic related) talking about a "biosynthetic body" aka artificialbody. Maybe an empty shell created for demons to possess them and then interact with this world better?
i know red mercury is supposedly used as fuel or in the energygenerator somehow, even though its claimed its not known how to make. feel free to provide red pills on the others

Attached: nazi letter grave.jpg (1784x600, 321K)

the skulls and grave

Attached: skull 2.jpg (590x350, 58K)

those are not skulls

Elements with atomic weights above 100

Aside from the UFOs some other hints that Nazi activity continued after WW2

First of, the 3rd reich never surrendered. Only the military did, but the head of state never meaning officially the war never ended.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Instrument_of_Surrender
>The German Instrument of Surrender ended World War II in Europe. The definitive text was signed in Karlshorst, Berlin on the night of 8 May 1945 by representatives of the three armed services of the Oberkommando der Wehrmacht (OKW) and the Allied Expeditionary Force together with the Supreme High Command of the Red Army, with further French and US representatives signing as witnesses

Hague Land Warfare Convention Article 24
opbw.org/int_inst/sec_docs/1907HC-TEXT.pdf
>Art. 24. Ruses of war and the employment of measures necessary for obtaining information about the enemy and the country are considered permissible.
Ruses like a fake surrender only by the armed forces (Wehrmacht) not the state?

Chairman of the nato was a Nazi too
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Heusinger
>General Adolf Heusinger (August 4, 1897 – November 30, 1982) was a German general who served as head of the West German military from 1957 to 1961 and as Chairman of the NATO Military Committee from 1961 to 1964

Just like the founder of the Bundes Nachrichten Dienst (german intelligence agency)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinhard_Gehlen
>Reinhard Gehlen (3 April 1902 – 8 June 1979) was a Nazi German general who was chief of the Foreign Armies East (FHO) military-intelligence unit, during World War II (1939–45); spymaster of the anti–Communist Gehlen Organization for the U.S.(1946–56); and the first president (1956–68) of the Federal Intelligence Service (Bundesnachrichtendienst, BND)

what are they then?

Attached: Nato SS.png (1000x541, 542K)

The Bundesrepublik Deutschland is the direct continuation of the german Reich
bundestag.de/presse/hib/2015_06/-/380964
>Das Bundesverfassungsgericht hat in ständiger Rechtsprechung festgestellt, dass das Völkerrechtssubjekt "Deutsches Reich" nicht untergegangen und die Bundesrepublik Deutschland nicht sein Rechtsnachfolger, sondern mit ihm als Völkerrechtssubjekt identisch ist.
>The federal constitutional court did now declare in constant juristdiction that the subject to international law "Deutsches Reich" did not collapse and the Bundesrepublik Deutschland wouldnt be its successor, but is as subject to international law identical

Another weird thing is that Germany, just like Italy and Japan are still enemy states in the UN
globalresearch.ca/germany-italy-japan-and-the-un-charters-enemy-state-clause-obstacle-to-an-asian-and-european-peace/5457761
>The UN Charter still designates Italy, Germany and Japan as enemy states to the United Nations. In legal terms this means that any U.N. Member State can launch a “preemptive” military aggression against these nations without a declaration of war.

Hitler also wanted a united europe under germany, with the EU he also basically got exactly that. except all of those institutions were heavily subverted by kikes since then.
pic related the HQ of the NATO. Nazis didnt lose, but had a tactical retreat.

Attached: nato swastika.jpg (472x469, 15K)

Scientists not under Hitler's command at that time. New Schwabin Land.

Anyone who wants more data on this look up the author Joseph P Farrell, can find some interviews on youtube as an introduction

Hess' faction

Is that the Jira icon in the middle of the Nazi Bell?

3 factions form a complex riddle the answer to which shakes the pillars of Atlas. White Sand in Arizona.

No, Red Mercury is the code name for the Russian LiH6, which is the impure version of the compound you're trying to discover and allows construction of the schumann levitators. By the way, research into this compound is illegal in many countries, and attempting to buy/sell red mercury knock offs will result in agencies sending police after you.
This technology is not for people to play with. If you succeed in making the compound, there's a good chance a CIA/NSA combo will hunt you down and deliver you to the US Air Force bases in Nevada. You will then be hired or liquidated.
Research all you want, but be careful if you actually want to make the substance. If you do, do us all a favour and never let it fall into public hands, as its existence would rattle the current world order.

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Victor Schauberger

I worked all around and in Kecksburg (its a village of 10 houses with a firehall) every week. A coworker who lived there was a young boy when this happened and he told me about it. His house was just 150 yards from where it hit.

Since we established that the Nazis were active way after the war it begs the question where they are/were.
Pic related are instructions on how to get to Agartha/Hollowearth via Submarine and were released by the KGB (at least all sources claim so and i didnt find any sources debunking any of it). Nikolai Subbotin, russian journalist who seems to have some reputation, has an interview about these documents. but sadly its in russian with german subtitles only. but if you speak either of those languages:
youtube.com/watch?v=QgNV_qRGHZI

This guy (Wilhelm Landig) was in the SS and talks about the warfare in antarctica. Among other stuff he talks about a "nuketest" where they detonated a nuke in the air, but in reality it was a nuclear attack on the nazibase in Antarctica. He only let the video get oublished after his death.
youtube.com/watch?v=eA23BVO79WY
archive.org/stream/InterviewWithMr.WilhelmLandig/Interview with Mr. Wilhelm Landig_djvu.txt
A transscipt of the interview for the non-german anons

Admiral Byrd, who led multiple expeditions to Antarctica including Operation Highjump and deepfreeze and talks about a land "as big as the United States, never seen by a human being before on the other side of the southpole". I will post pictures which supposedly are maps of Agartha down the thread
youtube.com/watch?v=czW0iRJuH1A

im not a technique guy either way, so i guess making it is out of question either way. im just gathering info thats around.

Attached: Agartha instructions translated full.jpg (2232x1256, 777K)

Vrill Society

Construction of the aircrafts isn't hard. The one key ingredient most governments are missing is the compound, both how to make it and how to prevent it from evaporating into radioactive gas.

Oh okay. If I ever manage to make it, I'll make sure the news reaches the entire world.

You know there isn't reason to think it wasn't some kind of rocket built by the Nazis to attempt to build a rocket that reach space.

The white race, the caucasoids are the actual chosen people, the Israeli people. This gets clear already when you see that Mount Aratat, where Noah landed with his arc is the same place where the white people, caucasusoids, come frome from, the Caucasus
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasus
de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ararat
It is also known that the blue eyed people all have a common anchestor
sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080130170343.htm
Which most likely was Noah

Furthermore the blue eyed white people are known across the world to come around and bring technology and knowledge and rule them for some time.
The sumerians believed the blue eyed white people where gods, the annunaki (even though i came to believe that the blue eyed possibly are other people during the sumerians, they at least have the blue eyed people and swastika as well).
The Aztecs as well, and describe them from coming over the sea with a ship that moved on its own.
The chinese talk about blue eyed and blonde haired people who created the first civilization and ruled in the early time. A lot of egyptians mummies are shown to have had blonde hair etc.
Hitlers Ahnenerbe tried to find out about the origins of the white people, and maybe he did find out the actual israelis are the whites with the jews being the blue eyed people, who are said that they will spread across the earth and rule everywhere. Same they did during colonisations. Hitler found out the (((jews))) of today arent the jews of the bible who are just
>those who belong to the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews but are liars instead.

The "white privilege" people go on about, is actually the blessing of God

yes, i know stories of them channeling some entities that gave them the info for the UFOs, but couldnt find anything that can be confirmed. from what i got scientists made it on their own. If they channeled someone i would assume its the inner earthers though (will get to those)

forgot pic

Attached: Swastika Worldmap.jpg (1600x1120, 404K)

V rocket

The bible story is actual real history. This gets clear when you look at the story of Joseph alone. Joseph, in the bible, was sold off as slave to egypt, where he became friends with the pharao and married his daughter. He was given authority over everything. Compare that with the Yuya-mummie which was blond by the way.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuya
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_(Genesis)

Hitlers "Herrenrasse" probably was meant to mean "Rasse des Herrn" "Race of the Lord"
The 1000 year Reich was meant to be the 1000 year Sabbath, the 7th day which never happened because Satan interrupted it and which is for God like a thousand years.
This is why the Nazis had a sense of superiority like the Israelis had for the goyim.
The (((Jew))), like everything, stole their identity from others. Just like they took german names, have plastic surgery to look more white, act white when it suits them they stole their whole identity of being a jew from the whites

>20 King Arius of the Spartans.
>To the high priest Onias. Greetings!
>21 It has been discovered in a written record that the Spartans and the Jews are relatives and are both of the family of Abraham. 22 Since we have learned this, please let us know how you are. 23 On our part, we write to let you know that what is yours—your livestock and property—belongs to us, and ours belongs to you. We therefore command that our envoys report to you in keeping with this.

read >page 91 of
>vault.fbi.gov/UFO/UFO Part 12 of 16/view
>Prisoner of war talking about a "circular aircraft" rising out of a german facillity during WW2. Also read 88
whatever propulses the craft results the surrounding engines, even though at that time barely with any electronics to stall when running around the engine which rocket crafts dont do

Attached: yuya.jpg (700x590, 91K)

Maria Orsic

Nazis went to the North and Southpole, both said to have openings, as well as tibet
youtube.com/watch?v=T1W_iB1y9n8
which has legends of an underground kingdom, shangri-la/shamballah.
Did Hitler find out that the whites, or at least those people who spreaded knowledge (which may have nothing to do with whites today) came from the inner earth, the biblical paradise, and from there spread their knowledge with others. Is this why (((they))) want to get rid completely of the white people?

the hopi indians, also have the swastika. and their legends involve humanity coming from out of a hole on earth, and during the end of the 4th world/cycle (i think it was the 4th) when the flood hit (whch probably was the same the bible mentioned as well as many others cultures) other people came out of the earth, the ant-friends or ant people, brought them underground and ensured their survival until the earth above is habitable again. further more. further more the word "anu" means for the hopi indians "ant" and naki "friend" while the sumerian gods were called anunaki, so probably those were the same.
All have legends of the pale blue eyed people and the swastika

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aos_Sí
>The aos sí ([eːs ˈʃiː], older form aes sídhe [eːs ˈʃiːðʲə]) is the Irish term for a supernatural race in Irish mythology and Scottish mythology (usually spelled Sìth, however pronounced the same), comparable to the fairies or elves. They are said to live underground in fairy mounds, across the western sea, or in an invisible world that coexists with the world of humans
>As part of the terms of their surrender to the Milesians, the Tuatha Dé Danann agreed to retreat and dwell underground.

Another interesting thing is that "Paradise" in the bible originally came from the word meaning "walled enclosure" which would be pretty much fitting to the inner earth.

Attached: noone knows what its like.jpg (800x300, 227K)

There is the North Pole Inner Earth Expedition (NPIEE) which tries to find out wether there is a hole on the north pole or not. I didnt look into this much yet, but there are rumors about it being canceled twice due to sudden deaths of the leading expeditioner. This is what i could find so far

x2-radio.com/phoenixsciencefoundation/npiee/history.html
>By 2005, the team had grown to 22 members, but required 100 members to fund the voyage. In 2006, Steven Currey tragically passed away and was succeeded by launch manager and PhD Physicist, Brooks Agnew.

x2-radio.com/phoenixsciencefoundation/npiee/updates.html
>After the sudden and strange disappearance of the the Park Avenue, New York film production company that previously had announced its plans to fund the expedition to make a documentary, we have regrouped and decided to run an Indiegogo crowdfunding campaign

better dont announce such an expidition i guess

pic related is of the southpole which you find here
history.nasa.gov/SP-168/section1.htm
>[31] "The ESSA III satellite was in a 750-mile altitude, circular orbit, inclined approximately 79° retrograde to provide Sun synchronism. Each picture covers approximately 3000000 square miles of the Earth's surface. In order to provide geographic location of meteorological phenomena, each picture was routinely gridded at ESSA in a latitude-longitude matrix. The South Pole and the Antarctic region are clearly visible in the concentric circles in each of the lower pictures. Africa and the Near East are readily recognized in the central portion of the mosaic.

now allegedly there is a hole in the middle as the satellite didnt cross directly over the southpole, but i have yet to see a real pic of the south pole

Attached: Essa 3.jpg (278x278, 30K)

Pic related is the Oronce Fine Map from 1531, it depicts antarctica even though it officially was only discovered 1820.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_Australis
>Terra Australis (Latin for South Land) is a hypothetical continent first posited in antiquity and which appeared on maps between the 15th and 18th centuries. The existence of Terra Australis was not based on any survey or direct observation, but rather on the idea that continental land in the Northern Hemisphere should be balanced by land in the south.
this is their excuse on why antarctica is seen on maps before its discovery (there are multiple around). furthermore they mostly show south america down to the southest part, but then suddenly werent able to discover antarctica which is just just next door?

Also I believe that the swastika is a symbol used by this civilization living inside the hollow earth which possibly are angelic (I believe them to be what we call the Nordic Ays, the Pleiadians or tall whites as opposed to the reptillians and grey ayys who likely are demons and fallen angels) and that at some points they come out and guide humanity on the surface. Atlantis and Hyperborrea I believe to be an outpost of those that existed in 2 different points of time in different locations. If its not the angels themselves then they might be a splittergroup of the aryan/real israelites that spreadded across the earth and brought their symbol of God

In general I think its a symbol for the sun and thus God. The biblical year, which is absed on the movement around/of the sun has 360 days, like the 4 rightangles make 360 degrees. some also say its meant to mark the northern polar star and the seasons, but the seasons are again based on the sun making me think thats the symbolism at work.
also take a look at the northpole of this map, and compare it with...

Attached: Oronce Fine Map.jpg (1800x1237, 808K)

...this one of hyperborrea. remember, the northpole, just as the southpole is rumored to have an opening

Attached: Hyperborea.jpg (750x701, 208K)

now pic related comes from the same batch of files as and supposeldy shows the inner earth

however to note here is that it shows asgard, the land of the nordic gods to be inside the earth

Attached: hollowearth map 1.jpg (2246x1131, 667K)

Whats the significance of green eyed people?

pic related cant tell anything about the supposed white people shopping, but the luz mala story is real
es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luz_mala
google translate:
>The bad light is one of the most famous myths of the folklores of Argentina and Uruguay. Some told him the legend of good light, also known as the ghost within the lantern. It consists of the nocturnal appearance of a bright light that floats at low ground level. This can remain motionless, move, or in some stories, pursue at high speed to the terrified observer. Many times it appears at a distance close to the horizon. which fits
cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/DOC_0000015255.pdf
Talks about flying saucers in Argentina and Antarctica
and also explains the interest on the falkland islands. want to keep a close tap on those nazis in antarctica

i heard they have the bonus of blue eyed, like higher pain resistence, better immune system and so on, just even a bit better than those. other than that no idea.

Attached: antarctica nazis shopping.png (1358x587, 592K)

Why is it whenever I see this thread posted I immediately scan over it without caring to read it?
Is it tl;dr, or maybe fluoride turning me into an NPC?

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Operation Highjump

Wish I could believe it but I know it's just more feelgood to keep me complacent

Attached: 1526096995290.png (550x412, 514K)

schlomo in pic related later appeared in another thread again, said he asked his rabbi who just stated that its a nothingburger and that there is nothing to it seemingly not wanting to talk further about it.

also regarding pic related:
the hebrew alphabet doesnt have any vowels, so both paradise and pardes would both be written the same (prds) giving another connection

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_Cenote
The Sacred Cenote (Spanish: cenote sagrado, American Spanish: [ˌsenote saˈɣɾaðo], "sacred well"; alternatively known as the "Well of Sacrifice") refers to a noted cenote at the pre-Columbian Maya archaeological site of Chichen Itza, in the northern Yucatán Peninsula
>According to post-Conquest sources (Maya and Spanish), pre-Columbian Maya sacrificed objects and human beings into the cenote as a form of worship to the Maya rain god Chaac
throwing stuff in a hole to worship their gods which leads me back to subterranian worlds too. also think of wishing wells, where you throw a coin into a whole of the earth to gain favor of the gods which seems to be a more casual version of
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Dorado
>as an initiation rite, covered himself with gold dust and submerged in Lake Guatavita

Or a more recent one
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_children_of_Woolpit
>After she learned to speak English, the girl explained that she and her brother had come from Saint Martin's Land, a subterranean world inhabited by green people.

Attached: Pardes.png (1773x1061, 482K)

From 42? Within that context the three factions would be represented by three names Braun , Bormann, Kammler

I dont think so, however regarding the symbols
in an earlier thread someone came in and claimed he worked with cryptography and nazi symbolism and said what he thinks the symbols mean, could be an asspull but i still paste his stuff. according to him the symbols are left to right
>male human
>female human
>Jesus Christ (symbol of religion)
>baby human
>adult human
>pine tree (symbol of nature)
>medallion (symbol of achievement)
>fertile male human
>symbol of human breeding
>fertile female human
>corset (symbol of skinny/fashionable human)
>overweight human
>female robot
>female cyborg

however didnt know those were the same supposedly. I should note that the depicted symbols likely are different. The wikipedia article for example
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kecksburg_UFO_incident
shows another depiction with pretty much the same shape but symbols that appear to be more runic. either way i believe the symbols have practical purposes and arent for decoration but may even assist with the flying, same with the glocke. how those symbols really looked like i cant tell either i guess

Attached: Vril saucer.jpg (714x540, 50K)

Bump for the esoteric Germanon. Always an interesting read, OP.

Careful, if you guess wrong you'll be SACked.

UFOs are an ancient phenomena. The hindu legends include vimanahs, flying castles or even cities of the gods
New Jerusalem in the revelation also descends from the sky/heavens, and likely is a UFO too
Aztec gods came in a ship that moved on its own.
Pic related is a painting in Church of the Dominican Monastery, in the town of Sighisoara, Romania. below it reads "Israel, hope for the lord" from either 14th or 17th century (depending on wether its from before or after the rebuilding of the church)
When someone was "brought up to God/the heavens" how likely is it a UFO took them towards the sky, out of view where they then got brought into the hollow earth (which I believe to be the biblical paradise)

I believe the knowledge of how the UFOs work is actually one of the divine knowledge brought by the (fallen) angels
There are rumors about the Vril-Societys women channeling some enthities to get the knowledge. While I didnt come across any good source for this claim (just see it over and over) if real i very well could believe they could have channeled those living in the hollow earth or(/and [in case they are the same]) angels to get those things to work

youtube.com/watch?v=9wg9kW-VwTw
didnt read that book yet, but appearently enoch, wise man that went with God, one day left to go where God is. he walks 8 days, followed by others who didnt want to be seperated from enoch even though telling him to go back,, until he reaches a place with snow and rocks of snow (ice?). there a fiery whirlwind takes him up to where God is and is not to be seen again. Did enoch go to the north/south pole into the hollow earth? appreciated. as always happy about everyone that likes my stuff

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>nazis build flying objects they themselves can't even identify
Using "UFO" to mean flying saucer was a mistake.

bump

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I love this stuff. So what is the deal with the Black Sun and vibrations and frequencies?

I'm not sure but I know that right angles = good in esoteric symbolism

pic related from the same batch of files as its kind of off topic, so here i just link to some post giving what i have as it otherwise would take half a dozen posts

Black Sun
Vibrations and frequencies

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Attached: latest (6).jpg (512x512, 82K)

Much appreciated and ty. Sorry for the off topic question.

sry but any working saucer u see today is not made by humans

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n problem. i dont mind. i just meant that posting it here would be too much unrelated stuff due to the number of posts required. one post linking the info is no problem. if you are into that stuff i recomment reading through the thread as a whole. has a lot on such stuff

Attached: new swabia difficulties.jpg (2954x1124, 525K)

these beings are not as careful about their lives or doings as u might think, they just do things we dont really undertsand why or why they are so clumsy etc, they came to check on earth alot during the times we tested nukes because we had the power to accidentally destroy ourselfs, which they would like as we are theirs

shows how much you know

The American expedition in Nazi claimed Antartica in 1946 was rather unusal for the number of units involved, units that were also not just meant to explore but they were combat ready.

It included an aircraft carrier and destroyers..

now it gets into real tinfoil territory

The stories of alien abductions and demonic possessions are all pretty similar They often run in the family, include violent sexual acts (like anal probing), unableness to move or speak and a general sense of being scared. Also both are reported to just stop when calling out to Christ for help
Now there are people that claim aliens come around and give us knowledge and technology. Think of Paul Hellyer, former minister of defense of canada
cnet.com/news/canadas-ex-defense-minister-aliens-would-give-us-more-tech-if-wed-stop-wars/
or Podesta rambling on about alien disclosure. Now I assume everyone knows about Pizzagate here, which brings me to the next person talking a lot about ayys giving us technology, Boyd Bushman
youtube.com/watch?v=4b4Hvlu7MGU
at 2:36 you can see the pedotriangle dangling in the background.
What did the demons and fallen angels do in the past? They gave humanity knowledge we arent supposed to have yet, same the ayys do now.
And if you know about Pizzagate you also know how its all about satanism
So we have satanic sodomizers talking about (((ayys))) giving us technology. The sodomy supposedly makes one also more receptive to the spiritual, kind of a shortcut, but probably like falling off a cliff is the shortcut of getting down from a mountain. You can be sure that the higher ups underwent the same practices as their victims (just without the murder at the end) which results in
a) Brainwashing, they will eventually thing this is normal behavior, especially the kids, and later will continue the practice
2. Blackmail, one steps out of line you expose the crimes they did during those rituals
III: Shortcut to spirituality.
dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5398625/Demon-voices-school-gunman-attack-cops-called-39-times.html
>cruz said demons told him to shoot up the school

Attached: bushman pedo.png (1920x1080, 1.83M)

I believe:
Grey Alien= Demons aka spirits of dead Nephilim
Reptillian=Fallen Angels, like Satan, the fallen angel that appeared in Eden in form of a serpent (reptile) and later the dragon
Nordics/Tall whites/Pleiadians=angels/inner earthers

Interestingly ritual abuse, as well as demonic possessions, as well as ayy abductions, all feature sodomy
archive.li/pIC4M
"Coincidently" around the area of the anus there is the rootchakra located. What is the purpose of this one?
chakras.info/root-chakra/
>Security, safety
>Survival
>Basic needs (food, sleep, shelter, self-preservation, etc.)
>Physicality, physical identity and aspects of self
>Grounding
>Support and foundation for living our lives

Remember how rapevictims often are left Traumatized their whole life? Same area.
They trap their victims in an endless feeling of being insecure and vulnarable to have them controllable by corrupting their Root Chakra, and do this by sodomizing them as well as other forms of torture. This seems to be specifically done in satanic brainwashings where the subjects also are forced to be fucked and get fucked by animals
youtube.com/watch?v=gVDIYFSygLg

Attached: Chakra.jpg (300x400, 48K)

One interesting concept on Chakra I saw is that the chakrapoints are the points where the different strings of nerves connect to the spine. For example the root chakra, in charge of survival instincts security and so on, is the lowest chakra where everything from the waist below connects. Thats why when we are in fear, the primary survivalinstinct, our knees shake or we are about to shit ourselves, because those are the nerves effected by this. Since its the first chakra in line it is also the one that can be the easiest effected and corrupted in example through sodomy it seems in the process corrupting all the other chakras too since the energy afaik flows upwards which it cant if a lower chakra is blocked, corrupting us spiritually which is the reason for the constant fearmogering (also a form of mindcontrol) and also the very area satan picks up, abusing those fears to corrupt us by making us value our well being more than others. Thats also why we are told in the bible to not fear and trust the lord as the fear itself already corrupts us and opens us up to more.

Some graphics showed the root chakra even to be associated with saturn, relating to satan, but would have to look more into that.

Now What is MKUltra? It is the CIA program working on mindcontrol methods which (((officially))) was stopped in 1973. They kidnapped drunks, prostitutes, homeless, and whoever else they could find from the streets to perform these experiments on them (next time you see a crazy hobo, maybe you realize why he is so crazy)
How is it performed? Basically they torture and stress you until your personality breaks into multiple people and you develop a dissociative identity disorder also known as multiple personality disorder. These methods include outright torture, waterboarding, sleep deprivation, being forced to look at strobing lights
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dazzler_(weapon)
youtube.com/watch?v=ghpjvXZ-5JY
and basically everything else that induces stress and Trauma. They furthermore aid it with the use of drugs (likely LSD or something similar). Eventually they build in some trigger, like always having a certain picture (like the monarch butterfly) on the wall during the process or making the subject wear a special shirt making it aware that the torture starts resulting in a certain personality they desire to come to the front. These new personalities can be then shaped pretty much freely and often dont know about the other personalitiy. It appears that the younger the subject is the better this works.

Is this still being done? You tell me
youtube.com/watch?v=4DrdvXHA8Qk
Some possibly are just druguse or fake (like the first one possibly is) but I advice to check the Britney Spears one at 7:25

Pic related an artwork of Kim Noble who underwent heavy abuse resulting in her personality being split. Extra attention on the Handkerchief below the kid, likely "drawing" the Pizza related map on it right now
wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/32795
Catching fluids as kind of a souvenir

Attached: Kim Noble.jpg (350x439, 25K)

This can all be summerized to "weakening ones mental and spiritual fortitude in whatever possible way" to make them controllable. If they are controllable to humans they also are to spirits and at that point the rituals and symbols come into play to call demons, as they are not omnipresent and otherwise would just miss the opportunity to take control

Some anons account on something related
archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/170561209/#170581818
>I have this early childhood memory and I am swarmed with fear currently when I write this. It's hard. I remember that it was night and I was probably 3-4 and I was in my room alone. I saw this classic flyng alien plate stop in front of my window.
>I also have another memory. An alien pictured on the wardrobe again in the middle of the night, it was only made from light.
>Also around this time I started wanting to be alone and perform this weird sexual thing where I would prostrate so that my ass is up and vulnerable.
>I am not gay to this day and I remember doing this once.
>WHAT THE FUCK totally mindfucked atm.

and
archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/174267972/#174300829
>Last year I have this weird dull pain between my scrotum and anus, couldn't sit without a donut pillow. 6 weeks of antiobiotics, lot of painkillers, nothing works. In january I had an Ayahuasca ceremony, in the deepest of the journey had this strong urge to pee, I don't know how I reached the bathroom but remember that the urine was dark green almost black. Since that the pain disappear. Weirder part is that the day before the ceremony I had lot of synchronicities and strange things happened. I think that root chakra was retaining some emotional stuff and Ayahuasca help me to release it.
>So, I think there's some truth in the chakra thing.

also in >It appears that the younger the subject is the better this works
pic related

Attached: circumcission.jpg (1008x1580, 540K)

(((official))) story is they went their to train arctic maneuvers out of russias reach to prepare for operations in such climate, however the operation was aborted 2 months after arrival due to bad weather while it was arctic summer.
rumors say they tried to hunt down nazis and were BTFOd either by them or their inner earther allies with superior tech which maybe lets weapons of enemies malfunction like it does with tractor and car engines >page 91 of
>vault.fbi.gov/UFO/UFO Part 12 of 16/view
>Prisoner of war talking about a "circular aircraft" rising out of a german facillity during WW2. Also read 88
as they do with nukes >telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/ufo/8026971/Aliens-have-deactivated-British-and-US-nuclear-missiles-say-US-military-pilots.html

Attached: Nazi UFO.jpg (357x351, 20K)

"monarch"

Note that hebrew like we know it exist like this like the middle of the 19th century.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_language
>Archaic Biblical Hebrew from the 10th to the 6th century BCE, corresponding to the Monarchic Period until the Babylonian Exile and represented by certain texts in the Hebrew Bible (Tanakh), notably the Song of Moses (Exodus 15) and the Song of Deborah (Judges 5). Also called Old Hebrew or Paleo-Hebrew. It was written in the Paleo-Hebrew alphabet. A script descended from this, the Samaritan alphabet, is still used by the Samaritans.
Originally the bible was written in Paleo-Hebrew.

Pic related, left is Paleo Hebrew and on the right the Vinca Runes found across europe giving a further connection between those
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleo-Hebrew_alphabet
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinča_symbols
given a further connection that the real isralites and chosen people are the aryans

behindthename.com/name/adam
>This is the Hebrew word for "man". It could be ultimately derived from Hebrew אדם ('adam) meaning "to be red", referring to the ruddy colour of human skin
red, like whites are right after birth or when too long in the sun

checked. if you like mindcontroll stuff check out

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It's a Skaven Screaming Bell

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On the Physics of hollow earth. Usually, applying mainstream physics, it the hollow sphere would collapse under its own gravity.
However try to imagine it like the legends of hollow earth state that the earth has an inner sun.
Now this inner sun creates a magnetic field (the very one we use for compasses). Now imagine that like its rumored that gravity doesnt exist, but that its actually another aspect of the electromagnetism, namely the van der waals forces relating the aspect of gravity to magnetic fields, like in example the one of the inner sun. This inner sun could create something similar to the Hutchison effect
youtube.com/watch?v=xeUgDJc6AWE
tl;dw: via electromagnatic vibrations you can let nonmagnetic/metallic/conductive materials levitate.

If this happens to be the case the crust may alignes itself with everything on it in the shape of a toroid around the inner sun present in legends about the inner earth, "locking" everything in the field of influence onto the position of the crust in a toroid shape resulting in a spehrical object with polar openings like the standard hollow earth model

furthermore if this is the basis of gravity all that is needed to overcome gravity should be electromagnetism

Attached: toroid.gif (508x338, 41K)

wikileaks.org/gifiles/docs/12/1260460_1947-.html
this is about rosswell. regarding this it might as well could have been russians trying to infiltrate USA with technology they got from the germans after the war, but werent really good at it and thus it crashed would explain why all those in the mail are full blown commies (or its just some random bullshit in the mail. no idea)

youtube.com/watch?v=cGtvXOvqYZg
footage from antarcticas inland showing snowfree areas and liquid water

While we were at wikileaks
wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/1973BUENOS05632_b.html
>SHIPMENT OF FROZEN PENGUIN GLANDS

wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/P790005-1028_e.html
>SECRET MOON BASE US HAD DESTROYE BY UR

Attached: antarctic what.png (1552x997, 1.78M)

caught by the webcam of the neumayer station in which was formally new swabia

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I burned through pretty much all my stuff, so here some further reading on other subjects

Ancient History
the occult principles behind 9/11
archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/175292781
archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/185365200

False Flags (9/11 included but not as detailed)
archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/180380385/

Political Symbolism
archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/174968078/

Pizzagate (ctrl + f "hogg" or "paddock" dor the parkland shooting or vegas shooting)
archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/172178550/

NASA being lying pieces of shit
archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/179314945

MKUltra and other mindcontroll
archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/185261304

Attached: antarctic whale.png (1556x1003, 2.16M)

from the same files as

Attached: Earth hollow.png (1614x1186, 3.75M)

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Attached: UFO.jpg (960x558, 122K)

what did he mean by this?

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anywhere I can find an archive of all your stuff? Not just Nazi UFOs, but everything you've gone over on Jow Forums

oh shit I'm retarded. Thank you for the links

creases on the photo, lines on ground all straight as fuck...

this should have the last version of each of those threads that didnt get deleted and had some traffic.
alternatively try
knowledgeofancients.blogspot.com/
where it should contain the same but with more of a red string since i didnt posted according to the other peoples replies but what makes the most sense to make a case, but in return misses the replies. i suppose the best is reading the blog to see the case im building and then the thread for additional commentary of others.

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