Some of you may remember me from my last thread. I had to leave to go to work and shit hit the fan here. (Hurricane, no power, no work next week.) Anyway if you don’t remember me I’ll link my previous thread from the archive.
Soon will be the anniversary of Papa’s death and I’m particularly agitated. I’ve been reading reports from Libya over the last month or so. Infrastructure crumbling, ISIS running wild, human slavery, migrants flooding Europe due to poor border control...it looks bad.
What should happen to Libya in Jow Forums‘s opinion? Should Italy take it back as a colony, should it be split into separate countries (Cyrenaica and Libya), should Saif or Ayesha gain control? Or is it even worth worrying over?
Inb4 >tits Not allowed on Jow Forums, best I can do is timestamps, plus I do t do nudes >I don’t believe you That’s fine.
The only thing NATO accomplished in Libya was to pass a law against saying things were better under the Gadaffi government.
Probably the best thing for Libya is to throw the NATO criminals out and let Russia and China take over trying to re-establish a working government. I say this because the NATO strategy is to create chaos, because in Chaos, there are opportunities for the ruling class to plunder. Where is Libya's soverign wealth fund? Under management by Tony Blair's brother? Where is Libya's gold. Six billion gone. The gold was probably stolen by the Clinton DOS and used to finance Obama's terrorist army in Syria. Russia and China you ask? They are ancient powers whose survival depended on maintaining stability in their border regions. That's what they do. Create stability. They did it in Syria. What do American and it's NATO lapdogs do? Create chaos. That's what they do. Read about it here.
You want your country back? You gotta throw out NA†o and all their paid operatives. The chaos in Libya, and for that matter Iraq should not be seen as policy failures, but rather, the successful implementation of America's grand imperial strategy for global hegemony.
Any government NATO sets up is a joke. In a way I wish Italy would just come in and take it back. My grandfather lived there under Il Duce and never wanted to leave.
Thanks, I don’t know why I still care at this point, but I do.
i honestly fucking despise what our neoliberal leaders and eu and nato did.. its so depressing here now, when the progressive tier liberals were high up in the election. so basically we're poor AND degenerate AND non-homogenous
Been to Libya quite a few times since his death. I can tell you with completely certainty then no way can you fix this country without a complete boots on the ground invasion and at least 10+ years of sustained interventionist management. A significant part of the population is armed to the teeth, the capital is split between 5-6 different militia groups with another dozen from outside regions all desperate to get in on the action. It's Somalia 2.0 but just richer.
Zachary Peterson
My dad is from Palestine. He always talked about Gaddafi is a positive way. He did acknowledge that he was a dictator but always said that the way arabs acted we deserved dictators. Gaddafi was looked up to because he was a secularist but at the same time he was a devout muslim. He had a compromise and kept both ends of the extremists in check. Unfortunately he pissed off the wrong people, he was one of the last 3 advocates for a 1 state solution in Palestine. Can you guess who the other 2 were? yeah. Lucy my dad died before he could see arab degeneracy at its peak
Dylan Morgan
Was it exciting or were you scared? Did anything flood?
Matthew Gomez
That’s terrible, though it’s what I figured. Papa loved his country so, I hate it. What part of Libya did you go to? My grandfather grew up near Sirte.
He always spoke his mind and held very strong beliefs, it’s what got him killed. I don’t think there’s any righting this ship.
I was a bit afraid, at some point I got into the bathroom with a mattress over me. Had the wear with all to put on my necklace though. If I died I wanted to be wearing it at least. Priorities. Trees snapped like matchsticks (see pic).
and the fucked up thing was, he was about to go nuclear.
Hillary and crew convinced him that if he did not, they would protect him. Even brought him to the US to parade him around, like they were being truthful. And the moment they had the chance, they funded the "revolution" and lets face it.
His country was incredible. There was very little poverty. You got money for having kids! but it's not hard to convince stupids that the golden egg they got now, could be better.
fucking idiots. And hillary should be in jail for this.
Julian Anderson
I know.
People have asked me if he mentioned anything about his weapons program during our time together, the short answer is no, and I regret not getting into more of a political debate.
He was sold out, he trusted ‘brother Obama’, came to the UN, was treated with the respect he deserved, and then betrayed and murdered. I don’t think I’ll ever stop being angry.
We met outside of Libya and I regret never traveling there before the revolution, but a lot had happened in my life and it wasn’t meant to be.
My name is Anna. In 1988 I had a week long affair with Papa Muammar. My father was a Swedish American diplomat and my mother was an Italian National. My mother’s family was from South Tyrol and Milan, though my grandfather grew up in Libya under Il Duce.
I see. Gaddafi was a good man, I think you know that Berlusconi was forced out of politics by international interest when he tried to shield him from NATO.
Is it true that he was trying to do like the Israeli and bring water by desalinization in the desert near the sea? I think I remember the French bombed those facilities with enriched uranium bombs, but I may be wrong.
You seem cool, you got cute feet, sweetie? Feel free to post em c:
Isaiah Lee
fuck off larp cancer
Nathan Robinson
He was a good man, I loved him very much. I was always a fan of Berlusconi, and he seemed to attempt to reconcile the tensions between the two countries.
You mean the Great Man Made River? It came from drilling into glacial water under the desert. And yes. It was completely destroyed.
I need to see bare toes to get off but those are pretty cute socks. Thanks for posting!
Henry Hall
>need bare toes to get off That’s interesting, never met anyone with a foot fetish really. My feet are tiny, size 5 in kids, makes it hard to shop for shoes.
>That’s terrible, though it’s what I figured. Papa loved his country so, I hate it. What part of Libya did you go to? My grandfather grew up near Sirte.
All over because I work for an oil company, but I've probably spent the most time in Tripoli collectively. I've been Sirte a few times but not since 2014 when it became an islamist stronghold. It was an absolute shithole before, don't think I saw a single building that wasn't either reduced to rubble or swiss cheese looking. I imagine it's worse now after the two battles it's gone through to remove ISIS.
Can you link me to your original /b/ post about this? Sounds really interesting, never seen anyone on here that was as effected by Libya as me.
Nicholas Morales
I’d like to go there if it ever settles down, which doesn’t seem like soon.
When my grandfather lived in Libya it was in the 40s and 50s, well before Papa’s rule, but he loved it. He wanted to stay, though my great grandparents were moving back to Milan after the war. So Sirte is special to me for numerous reasons.
The best link I can give regarding my experience is on reddit here:
>I’d like to go there if it ever settles down, which doesn’t seem like soon.
I think it's near impossible at the moment to get a visa outside of work pulling some strings. You can pretty much get anything in Libya, even a passport and citizenship, if you know someone. Not sure if you do though.
>When my grandfather lived in Libya it was in the 40s and 50s, well before Papa’s rule, but he loved it. He wanted to stay, though my great grandparents were moving back to Milan after the war. So Sirte is special to me for numerous reasons. From what people have told me, Libya was in it's pomp back then. They know I'm European so think I see Libya as some mudhut country so they show me pictures to prove that it was good once. Was a little shocked at what they showed me, literally looked like a European country in a middle eastern setting.
Have you ever met Libya people in the US and casually told them about this?
John Brown
Gaddafi was a good man but we need to move on maybe his son is able to fix Libya and we need to remove the jewish influence from the world one step at a time
Daniel Barnes
I had a Libyan citizenship and passport at one time, not too sure how ‘above board’ it all was though. My father took these things from me. I’ve talked to a Libyan who knew Papa, though I won’t get into that here.
It was a beautiful country from what I saw of my grandparents photos, and of course I followed Papa’s rule closely after our ecnounter.
About nearly becoming Colonel Gaddafi’s teenage second wife? Nah. I’ve talked to some Libyans about how I believed he was a good ruler, but that’s the extent. Outside of the internet I don’t talk about it, it’s the sort of think that if anyone ever knew your life would never be the same.
More men like Gadaffi can exist and maybe you can create one for yourself. Just find someone honorable and kind and get a good life, off course you can never be safe but you need to try
Easton Ross
I’m sure there are other good men out there, and I appreciate your concern. It’s just...I’m still in love with him, I don’t want another man. I dated three times after him, all ended badly, I was fooling myself. I’m celibate now, I suppose I’m just a monogamous person.
Then you can take a child from the war zones and save it. But remember that the child needs a father figure if you actually do that.
Connor Gray
I wouldn’t feel right doing this. Children need a mother and a father, I can only give them the former. That’s no way for a child to grow up. It’s not that I didn’t want children, I did. I was going to have a son, though my father made me abort. I was going to have a son and return to Papa, that was my plan. So much for that.
Why Egypt hasn't invaded for the purpose of expanding its own borders is beyond me.
Christian Miller
I forget to mention the gold issue, Papa had tons of it, and yet it seems to have disappeared. My guess was France, but wouldn’t doubt if it’s been redistributed amongst the NATO members.
That’s a good question to be honest, I suppose it’s because Egypt is also unstable, though not nearly to the degree Libya is. I can also see an Egyptian invasion pissing of NATO, and they probably don’t want to deal with that.
I once read a book from a Canadian anthropologist about Libia. "Slouching towards sirtre" by Maximilian forte, or something like that. It mainly focused on the techniques used to convince the western population that toppling Gaddafi was important, and the parallels to Iraq and Syria. Also focuses on his policies, the threat he posed to NATO's plans for Africa and more. I quite liked it and it made me hate Clinton and Obama even more. I mean Lybia is the ultimate argument I use against any anti Trumper moaning that the Americans elected him over Hillary. Hillary's jubilant joy over Gaddafi's death and Lybia's destruction. Not even hardcore leftists can argue against it.
Kayden Sullivan
Yeah but Egypt has the perfect excuse too do it. For one Lybia is overrun by disorganized miltas who only loot and plunder. If I were ruling Egypt I could make a pretty good argument too other nations that we are only ensuring the mass murderingg miltas do not threaten Egypt's security. If I were the leader of Egypt I could even make a deal with the Russians for ensured protection from NATO.
It would also offer new opportunities to the less fortunate Egyptian men that could be offered land and wealth. The Romans were known to do this across its territories with poor farm boys who had little to nothing for themselves. Which in ensured a less likely attempt for rebellion in the Roman Empire. Since the lower class of men who decided to join the Roman military. Now had more too lose if they rebelled and something to gain if they were loyal. Egypt could easily use this old and effective tactic to take over the destroyed state of Lybia.
Luke Cook
Clinton disgusts me. I try not to hold hate in my heart, but I truly on a deep level hate her. Seeing her joy over the death of the man I so deeply loved...it’s not something I can forget or forgive. I was overjoyed when Trump won and so far he’s done an excellent job.
Inshallah Saif will take power, IMO he is the only one who could bring enough nationwide support to form some semblance of government. But, will NATO allow it?
Question: did Muammar ever discuss bringing back the gold standard? Specifically regarding oil exports
I personally believe Papa wanted Ayesha to take over after he resigned, though it seems unlikely she will. Perhaps Saif will take charge and turn things around, though I imagine the powers that be won’t let that happen so easily.
Not that I recall. He’d go of on a tangent and tell me his opinions on things, but he was generally interested in my outlook. I suppose you would be if you’re wife scouting, ha.
It'd be much more difficult for Italy to justify the action of invasion into Lybia. Europe is a hair's breath away from chaos. And I doubt Italy's allies would back them in such a war. If anything It'd cause almost if not all of Italy's allies too turn on Italy. Due too, the massive rise of fear in the West of the possibility of a Fascist militaristic nation being created in Europe. Which is highly unlikely to begin with, but the Fascist scare is real in Europe and the United States thanks to the mass media.
Egypt on the Other hand has no loyalty too the West and NATO. Honestly what country would at this point, seeing how the West has recently treated those who they had make deals with. Besides the West is funding terror cells in Syria who also were responsible for Lybia's collapse. That alone is enough of an excuse too invade the fallen state Lybia. And with help from the Russians, NATO will not directly intervene. A large North African state that would have access too the Mediterranean. Would play a massive role in ensuring stituations like Lybia won't occur across that general region again.
Grayson Russell
I see your point and it’s unlikely Italy will make a move considering how tense things are in the European arena, I just personally feel Italy has a right to Libya above other nations.
Also Libyans generally have poor opinion of their Egyptian neighbors, at least that was the way it was during my time with Papa. I can’t see the Libyan populace surrendering to the Egyptians so easily...
Also I’d like to add that Italy is becoming more conservative by the day, at least according to my mother. Italians are getting fed up with the migrant crisis and taking back Libya would be a great way to help end the flow of third world’ers. That being said we don’t live in a perfect world and it would take another Il Duce to get things going.
Libya is rightful Italian clay, and the EU is powerless, so Italy could get away with it.
Jeremiah Fisher
is there somewhere i can aquire the text of that book online?
Oliver Morales
Trust me I'd much rather have a country like Italy control Lybia than a nation like Egypt. However, the EU is attempting too shorten It's leash over in regards too European countries. What Italy needs too do right now is attempt to make an alliance across Eastern Europe that can compete with the upcoming EU army. Because it won't be long before the EU starts enforcing it's international laws with a barrel of a gun. And in regards of Lybians and Egyptians not liking on another. The truth is that Lybia is now a lawless state. Anyone who resides in Lybia with a good heart and good intentions. Now live in fear and are at the mercy of armed merancies who have little to sense of morality or the greater good. I bet many Lybians only what one thing, and that is for this lawless chaos too stop in their home. And if Egypt is the most effective way of stopping that chaos I think most Lybians will accept Egypt with open arms. It's unfortunate and terribly sad the Lybian people have been pushed so far to think that away. But that is the reality they now the hell they live in thanks to people like Hillary Clinton. I can't see any other effective way of reversing what has been done without another African country restoring order in Lybia themselves.
Brody Harris
Is like to think so. Now that Papa is gone I think Italy taking it back is the best thing. Papa was a champion for Libyan independence, but it’s just not feasible at this moment in history.
I read parts of his book and it is just dumbed down socialism. Trying to justify his absolute power and the need for huge government.
>Why do employees are paid? >Because they have done a production in favor of other whom have hired them for that production >Therefore they have not consumed their production, but have been forced to cede it in exchange for a salary, when usually "he who produces, consumes"
>Employees are temporal slaves, no matter how up their wages go >NO MATTER HOW UP THE WAGES CAN GO
You have to suffer from extreme hubris to, first, believe the end result of an industrial process is "yours" and the product of collectively organized work form dozens of people that have to guide you and your fellow workers to the end product. Secondly, "no matter how good the wages". Totally an elitist view. Only someone who's well enough economically would tell a well paid worker that due to that wage managed to get out of poverty that "you are a slave just like niggers in Africa".
If Italy wants to accomplish any of this it must first leave the EU, which I doubt it will, though it’s possible due to the recent brexit fiasco. If my mother is correct about Italy becoming more and more right wing than it probably won’t take much to push them into considering a break from the EU and it’s progressive ideals.
And I agree, I’d imagine Libyans are desperate for some semblance of peace, and would take it however they could get it. They also feel the terrible effects of migrants flooding into their country and displacing them...it’s a terrible situation all around.
He used the term socialism, though his outlook evolved into more of a capitalist theology as he got older.
Remember, Libya was really more of a social democracy than a totalitarian socialist state. Countries like Libya can afford social programs due to oil revenues, and he did not have absolute power, that was in the hands of the people’s committees.
He was also a big advocate for self employment vs wage slavery.
It would be so fucking sexy to have it back as a colony but realistically it won't ever happened However it's entirely possible to stabilize it. The frogs only want chaos. if the USA support us into stabilizing it, it will thrive once again (and us with them)
Aiden Rivera
In my opinion if any country should take it it should be Italy.
My grandfather grew up there under Il Duce, he said it was wonderful, he never wanted to leave. Italy was the foundation on which Papa built modern Libya and made it flourish. I believe Italy could bring it back to those glory days. And I personally think Papa would rather see it fall into Italian hands vs being torn to pieces by warring militias.
Damn same the US won’t let this happen.
Easton Clark
The USA would GLADLY let us. The problem is not across the ocean but on our doorstep: just as 100 years ago, some european """friendly""" powers don't like rivals expanding into their markets...
Kevin Turner
USA with today’s politics would not give a shit
Daniel Lewis
That makes sense when you put it that way.
It’s funny, my grandfather hated the French. As a child I never understood why. He was old school though, his parents were fascist party members, I remember my grandparents house looked like someone picked his Libyan home interior and plopped it down in Milan, they had a portrait of Il Duce in the living room. God bless my grandmother, she was long suffering. I moved to the US at 6, I miss those days.
I’ve seriously considered it. I’ve got a dual citizenship, just have to go down to Miami to pick up my passport from the consulate. I’ve started trying to build a relationship with my mother (when my parents divorced I want to live with my father) and so far so good. My grandparents are no longer with us sadly, when my grandfather died my mother moved to my grandmother’s hometown in South Tyrol with her. My mom’s been there since.
I had an affair with Papa Muammar in 88, my father was a Swedish American diplomat and my mother is an Italian. I’m Catholic.
Papa was scouting for a second wife, he and Safia weren’t getting along all that well. We met, he asked me to return to Libya with him, when my father found out about our relationship he pretty much locked me away from the world.
Yeah, I never stopped loving him, my father fucked me over. He convinced me Papa wanted nothing more to do with me when he attempted contact for over a decade (my father confessed this to me when he became terminally ill), forced me to abort our son, it’s been difficult.
No, the only child I had was with Papa. My father made me have a late term abortion, I was pushing six months, our son was born alive but died not long after. I was put out during the whole thing and I fought hard to stop it.
>dont do nudes The tits are more to prove you're an actual woman. It prevents showing pieces of cloth and insinuating that you are a woman without actual proof. The proof is in the tits and gash. We consider traps to have done enough damage to their bodies providing real versions of these things to be allowed to speak. Kind of like performing seppuku after stating your opinion before the shogun. They're going to an hero anyway. What you've given are pictures of cloth, not tits, therefore you will be treated as a man.
That said, what kind of a man has a Gaddafi fetish? You're a fucking faggot man.
