Who here was on the left before ~2016?

Yoive been supplanted and thats a good thing

I used to be leftist as well. Then Sweden Yes happened.

What justifies that arrogance? Or do you know your ideas are so bad they can't stand up in the marketplace of ideas?

I was pretty left-ish up until about half way through the Bush W presidency. I was very against the war and protested and all that. That's where my red pilling started. I noticed how many people showed up to anti-war protests with their pet fag issues and tried to make it about that. I noticed the complete lack of results. The WTO protests and following the OWS stuff really opened my eyes. Total police state tactics to shut things down. I saw the environmental movement abandon all its values for the global warming carbon credit scam. I saw the endless bailouts for the banks. That's when I swallowed the bitter pill and started to look at who owned and controlled everything that they could exert so much control. The words of the late Michael Ruppert still ring in my ears, "Until you change the way money works, you change nothing." He didn't name the jew directly, but the truth of that statement is undeniable. Once you look at who owns the media that downplays the anti-war protests, the banks that have turned us all into debt slaves, who makes the laws, who buys all the elected officials... Then I started to see the social programing. I went from red pilled to black pilled pretty fast. The truth is you need men willing to kill and die to change things, and there aren't many of them left, and the few that there are, are under the jew's thumb. I am literally an in the closet Nazi at this point, just waiting for things to get bad enough to fall apart so we can start to talk openly about the real problem at the root of the world.

A lot of the discord groups have entry requirements - "What do you think about womens rights", "what do you think about the LGBT movement" etc.

My answer is always that those issues are not relevant to class struggle - If the house is burning you dont go to check if the laundry is done. Same view is held by people like Zizek who says that it was the reformers during slavery who fucked up the rights of blacks the most. Like by making life easier for slaves it removed that kind of rebelious spirit... "Well our masters gave us socks so i guess things arent too bad". So its not a particularly anti left view but it doesnt conform to (((their))) left. Heres an interesting article I read from Zizek today about it incidentally: economist.com/open-future/2018/10/08/are-liberals-and-populists-just-searching-for-a-new-master?fsrc

I dont think its an issue specifically caused by Jews. Any group could have taken control in that way. The only reason it was mostly Jews is because of the usury laws in medieval times. They lent money to colonial powers and built up the big banking infrastructure. Further down the line they were able to change how money works.

If you were talking in the 1200s you would be saying it was the templars fucking things up. People did do that and they all got burned at the stake and yet here we are with the same problem.

>economist.com/open-future/2018/10/08/are-liberals-and-populists-just-searching-for-a-new-master?fsrc
This was a great read, thank you.
That's very disappointing to hear about the discord but it seems to be a prime example of exactly what we're talking about. The left is becoming a religion. There is no room for dialogue in a religion.

>Migrants are an increase in the supply of labour which makes it cheaper
yes? it's why you lefties do it. They hate the working class, they think they're "better" than us.
They want to pretend nationalists or populists held control for such a long time, and they just jump from job to fucking job on the executive branch while crying for more immigration, fucking us all in the process.

They say they like culture but when push comes to show all they want is to protect global trade. They whine about climate change but they push ALL the responsibility over to the consumers while not even following through on any deals given to the corporations, which they ofte end up working for. They hate protectionism.

>There could be a big movement against all this horseshit if we just changed the words we used with each other
You don't think I've tried!? You know how many times I've been called a racist. You better watch your hypocrisy. Results is all that matters.

Do you want to live in a globalized world controlled by corporations, or a world which is micromanaged in a way which keeps politicians on their toes.

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leftists hate the only good race of people: whites. they are dead to me.

Left until 2012-2013

All the BLM, White Privlege CIS HET male hate shit pushed me right.

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>They hate the working class
>all they want is to protect global trade
>They hate protectionism

This is the exact opposite of leftism. And infact this is pretty much a direct description of the Washington Consensus. Where did you get this information from?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Consensus

>NPC banter
Indecision is more despicable than either side.

>Where did you get this information from?

It's what they are against. They want to homogenize culture.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_homogenization

The entire "new left", the somewhat global paradigm of the left wing since the 1960s. (all labour movements)
The Guardian and most of its staff
Social justice warriors in general
The corporations which promote social justice
Even the only marxist newspaper in Norway

goddamnit that fb post lmao

The left and right shifted positions a few years back, stariting around 2010s or earlier. All the former conservative pundits and the donors and a lot of politicians embraced PC culture. I think it began with or after Obama. His second presidency was probably decided on beforehand.
Only a few remained, the few donors who still lobbied conservatives were invested in both sides tho.

But you only have to go to Sweden to see the real effect of cultural integration or "multiculturalism".
Shootings every day and its almost never done by swedes. I wouldn't be surprized if its a 1/100 ratio. And it has nothing to do with disenfranchisement of the immigrants, they are given everything they point at in Sweden. Impoverished swedes suffer tremendously under that shitty rule but they are almost brainwashed into thinking all other ways are racist.
Opposing immigration isn't really racist tho, its sensible. But try saying that out loud, they'll brand you and take away your job and remove any possibility of future livelihoods.

it sucks. And lefties are okay with that.
Same as the actual nazi program began by weeding out the weak and mentally handicapped, the left is killing them and normies at the same time by removing their livelihoods.

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Id say post 60s left was weaponised by tankies as a cultural weapon meant to be interned and shot later on when the soviet bloc would invade.
The tankies collapsed though due to their systems fault, the bugs they put in ours life still without purpose but to destroy.

>I want real leftism to come back
There never was such a thing.

Kinda is the doom of a revolutionary ideology. Its children will try to be more revolutionary and overturn their parents.

>I want real leftism to come back. Two rational sides are extremely healthy for a republic
Here´s the problem. The US democrats are no longer rational.
I totally agree otherwise. but they have completely abandoned the facts entirely. And is purely propaganda. They are not objective, they are not reasonable or rational and they are not logical and they are simply not factual about anything. And their policies are actually dangerous for america right now. but it´s clearly up to the US dems to pull their shit together. They have no party program right now other than fuck drump and being 'anti trump'. I mean what policies do they have for americans? Free shit for foreigners paid for by the US taxpayer? And citizenship for foreigners. How is that good for the US economy? They have effectively turned into the Anti american party. They hate everything about white people and about american culture and values. This is just not very good when you are an american party. To hate america, and love foreigners instead. It´s not very good at all haha. So when 1 party just completely loses its shit and become basically fundamentalist anti american. And trying to basically deconstruct it and turn it into some kind of south american vassal state, full of massive problems. Whilst promising free shit you know you can´t afford, in exchange for votes. Well then everybody ofcourse flock to the republicans. They are also far from perfect but that´s the alternative people have. But what they don´t do is bullshit people about stuff. They are conservatives. You may not like their views, but they don´t bullshit you like these total anti american anti white lunatics that have taken over the US democrats. That want to spearhead some kind of agenda where white americans become minority in their own country and becomes south american hodgepodge.
I just wrote up a 2 post crossthread about an article where robert de niro is trying to look for an anti trump.

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You bring them in to be voters you retard. Stop being coy. Because the citizens don´t want to vote to be replaced in their own country, nor to give taxpayer money to a bunch of foreigners. Why do you think the US democrats wants open borders. They think without hordes of immigrants nobody will vote for their stupid ideas.

No. The Soviets had a revolutionary ideology, and their children turned out less ideological. What we see is that leftism in the west is simply natural entropy. They have been cutting away at all of the foundations of western civilization for a very long time, and under various forms of ideologies.
Now it's come to the point where it doesn't matter whether you're a republican neocon or an actual leftist--it's all bullshit.

ALT-right or goodnight:
voxday.blogspot.com/2016/08/what-alt-right-is.html

>They have been cutting away at all of the foundations of western civilization for a very long time, and under various forms of ideologies.
Now it's come to the point where it doesn't matter whether you're a republican neocon or an actual leftist--it's all bullshit.
Yeah this is why they have an identity crisis, because trump is for example totally reversing that. So they go.
>wait so we are not trying to destroy and pick away at america anymore. What do we even believe in. What is our party program without it.
Turns out they have fucking NOTHING! NOTHING! That beto o'rourke what is his policy. Give free shit to illegals at taxpayer expense. Give illegals citizenship. No wall and 'smart border security'. Yeah the kind that gave you 40-50 million illegals over 3-4 decades? BRILLIANT. And also he claims that el paso (he´s from a border town) is totally safe, trying to lie about drug trafficking and other shit. Why he says? because he is kissing south american ass. Excuse me he calls it respecting everyone. Well what happened to americans respecting themselves? Is respecting yourself turning from 90% white country, and into south america? Idiot. But this is unironically probably their best bet right now. This total fucking open borders charlatain. It´s like he´s running to be senator of south america instead of texas. Why the fuck doesn't he just apply for citizenship there instead? I mean it´s so headscratching. But i think this is what their identity crisis is about. And to deflect from them having NO FUCKING POSITION THAT IS GOOD FOR THE US. They just say instead.
>well we are anti trump.
You mean you got nothing right?
>fuck drumpf
What are you going to do for americans?
>FUCK DRUMPF!!! IMPEEAACHH

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This again is a semantic issue. You're talking about the opposition to the right wing political body in your country. I'm trying to talk about an ideological absolute. One group might call themselves leftwing in 2010 and rightwing in 2012 but theories and ideologies always stay the same relative to each other. The left in its academic literature is pro-worker and I have no clue how you can describe the Washington Consensus and call it leftwing. Even your wikipedia article states that this is exclusively a capitalist phenomenon. If you read the theories you will understand who is what a lot better.

I'm a business owner who has always towards the left. I favor a strong free market and a strong social safety net. If the Dutch didn't like Muslims so much I would say they have the best system on Earth.

>I'm a business owner who has always towards the left. I favor a strong free market and a strong social safety net. If the Dutch didn't like Muslims so much I would say they have the best system on Earth.
Do you mean netherlands (dutch) or do you mean denmark (danes) ?
Also if you mean us, our leftist parties are not totally shot in the head and are actually against mass immigration currently. What the US democrats have done is basically become a party of high treason. And then it doesn´t fucking matter if you are more soft left leaning or more conservative. If the choice is between a party that is about treason, and a party that isn´t. You don´t really have much alternative then unless you reel the treasonous party back in since the US basically only has 2 parties that matter, this is a big thing when one of them goes 'loco' completely off the deep end and makes that the entire thing that they are about.
Also i have to say i warn you americans about universal healthcare. You have no fucking idea how expensive it is. You can forget low taxes, you can´t afford it with low taxes simple as that. It´s paying everything up front your doctors bills, through your taxes. You really have to be rich as a country consider something like that. And it will make you substantially poorer. Also the problem with this is, quite lengthy waiting lines, longer than anything you possibly think. If you think a couple of weeks is a lot, then you would be in a nightmare. We have private hospitals here for the rich aswell, who want fast and more expertize treatment.

Always been right wing. Raised in a socialist hive; grandfather successful dairy farm owner and the towns council conspired against my high IQ mother and her 10 smart siblings to keep them out of the grammar school (a higher level school than basic [read:backward] high schools). Maybe a good thing, as she pumped out 6 right wing kids.
Socialism is crabs in a barrel, keeping each other down.

I used to be a hard leftist around 2010. Grew up,saw the worlds cultures and how whitoids are giving theirs up, got to see what the left really is, etc.

Now I'd say I'm an archtraditionalist and most of my family has steadily moved to the hard "right" direction. Not conservatism mind you, traditionalism. I had a family who was a ranking communist member give it up and is now further "right" than I am in some respects.

I know the difference! I really don't know much about Danish government so I didn't use y'all as my example but I don't doubt that you might be closer to my ideals. I specified that I appreciate the Dutch system ASIDE from their suicidal immigration policies. And I understand that good universal healthcare is obtainable but expensive, and I believe it's an expense that every wealthy country should consider standard. My doubts are if the US government could produce a good universal healthcare program or if the average citizen would be willing enough to pay for it.

>The left in its academic literature is pro-worker
Not really, Bourdieu, Baudrillard, Lacan, Foucault etc, they are not advocating as much for the working class.
The new left abolished the notion of class struggle and started talking about ethnic, gender, religious and other minority struggles instead.

They screwed the working class at the same their ideas got international traction. In the end of the 1960s. Especially in the EU.
Now it's totally eroded, if you value worker rights you're not a part of a union, its a no-brainer.
I know people who paid into their union for ages and still got screwed over because the worker unions cooperate with the corporations and both indirectly and directly receive "payoffs" and exchange executives.

So the system is as eroded and interconnected as we already knew, its corrupt.
Politics and corporations merged a long time ago.

I was a Democrat back in early 2016, a very generically center left. I’m in New Jersey which is tends to lean blue by default.

The insanity of the DNC and Clinton’s pro war hysteria shocked me and I ended up switching to becoming a Republican who voted for Kim and will vote for Hugin. The left is half composed of corporate neoliberals who don’t give a shit about their constituents, and half radical lefties.

Go on r/newjersey at any point in the past two years and just seee this irrational hatred of the center, Republicans, and Trump———it’s insane. Too many of my friends are indoctrinated into this far left insanity and blind allegiance to the Democrats, who aren’t offering any actual solutions to improving the lives of the constituents.

If the Democrats are ever reborn as a proper party at some point in the future they’d have to be focused on infrastructure, pollution, making it easier for start of businesses, finding ways to deal with public transit that doesn’t involve firing the useful public servents, and not taxing people so much that they leave the state.

I would want the Democrats to work with the independents and Republicans, not defaulting to attacking Kavanaugh, Trump, and anyone to the right of Marx as Russian bots or traitors.

I shifted right after I learned what conservatism is actually about and discovered that people like Bush is anything but. This was probably the during the beginning of Obama's second term.

I used to be center right leaning. Now I’m center left leaning. Both parents used to be democrat and now are independent

fuck off, never going back to leftism, what a disgusting mentality, if people want to stay in their false reality , it is not for me

>ven your wikipedia article states that this is exclusively a capitalist phenomenon
yeah, but whos pushing it?

It's the same thing, politicians (or their families) are eiter financially invested in international businesses or directly control as them as executives. This has been going on for years.
It's where a lot of the tax money go.

Take foreign aid as an example. Read what's being written by newspapers critically. When they say a NGO then know the definition of NPO has changed drastically over the last couple of years. Its often directly linked to for profit organizations. Take NGO which sounds similar, it doesn't really say anything.

When money goes to these actors who are supposed to help the local population in some remote part of Africa, what happens?
Well, they "help" them by building industries, which THEY own. The same politicians who increase tax and pretend to help these guys.

Same goes for environment and other shit. International sized lobbies never solved anything, anyone whose attended a political meeting know this. They're ineffective and if they do promote legislation it will always affect the consumer and never the corporation.

>When they say a NGO then know the definition of NPO
When they say a NPO then know the definition of NPO

I was fairly apolitical until around the end of gamergate. I had normie opinions like "let gays just do their thing" and "global warming might be real??"

Gamergate really pushed me to question feminism and media, which lead to me you-tubers talking about politics (the left vs the right)

Conservatism seemed more interested in facts over emotions, although nowadays i try not being a knee-jerk reactionary towards leftists though

I've always posted on Jow Forums, but only in the past two years have i been around on Jow Forums

It´s a shame really what is happened to the US democrat party. And it´s quite frankly a betrayal of anyone moderate left leaning individuals. Because they give them no fucking choice but to vote republican till this changes. And what is worse is. You can´t even get the US democrats to admit it since all these radicals have basically taken charge of it. And too few of the democrats say any god damn thing about it. So the US democrats say crazier and crazier thing in an effort to cater to them. After trump wins in 2020 you really need to get your shit together till 2024 and spend those 4 years reeling in those retards.

>The left in its academic literature is pro-worker
Well why do you call natsoc right wing then? It´s hard to find a more fundamentalist worker party like that. One of the primary distinctions between them and communists. is that they were hardcore nationalists. And full on meritocratic. Whereas communists quite frankly are anti meritocratic. And think people who are excellent at something should go to gulag for being burgoise. And handed over their farms to incompetent dimwits because of the 'one is just as competent as the other' lie.
Since you use the communist meme flag i will address you as such. You have nobody to thank for this but yourself. Going around calling everyone to the right of gengrikh yagoda (jewish executor of about 10 million ethnic russians during the soviets). Nazi's and fascists. Even if you are center right you get called nazi or fascist. It´s this that is blurring the lines completely. And is quite frankly a typical communist thing by trying to create a two party system, either you are pro communist or you are against communism. And then trying by political terrorism and voter intimidation to create a one party communist overthrow. Which is exactly how every single communist revolution took place. Only difference is that in germany, when this was attempted. NSDAP won the street fight/the nationalists won. Not the communists KPD and their antifa goons. Because this is precisely where antifa originated. The communist goon squad from germany. NSDAP was a reactionary movement to an attempt of communist overthrow. And everyone flocked to NSDAP to stop the communists. And SA (sturmabteilung) was created to confront the antifa militants who would show up at political rallies and beat up people who were not pro communist. Even kill them, and also harass them at work and in their personal homes etc. If they found out they were NSDAP or just not supportive of KPD etc.

I hate just saying "look heres a video that explains all my views" - its arrogant and condescending...but I've been putting off my work for hours and post-modernism is something really tricky to explain in an offhand comment so:
youtube.com/watch?v=26fIBA7O5Ag

I revere Baudrillard, Foucault, Jameson, Debord and even Deleuze almost to the same level as some of the more orthodox Marxist thinkers and I think you are using a watered down version of what they say. At the heart was the question "Why does no one want to revolt?" and the answer they give is because capitalism seeps into culture. It wasnt a call to make everything gay.

And your other post about the left pushing all these things... Theres no money in pushing a truly leftist agenda. Marxism doesnt pay. So why are companies pushing that version of leftism? Its harmless to their goals and it creates a profitable niche

>I want real leftism to come back.

You don't know what "leftism" is. What you call leftism is a crave for an idyllic view of how the world works. Eternal youth, forever young, no worries, "only good news" tv networks, glorious future, in short, chinese communism. Now watch Evan Sayet talking about you and get over it.

youtube.com/watch?v=ODXgGS50AVY

Let's go back to NPC vs non-NPC memes.

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The left not in bad as shape as this place leads you on. They do have a lot of mobilization right now. Free healthcare is actually a good idea. They are pro net neutrality as well unloke this administration.

you're just a reasonable person. The left-right difference is largely artificial because both parties were hijacked by those who serve only their own interests long ago. The discourse between different alternatives used to be a thing simply because it about two parties discussing how to make the best possible deal for their own homogeneous society.
Then someone realised it is possible to just import voters who will subscribe to any policies of their benefactors as long as they don't directly harm their interests. This is why we have such extreme disagreements over how western countries should be run. Hillary was, perhaps unwittingly, right about one thing - you cannot remain civil when dealing with people who want to destroy everything you stand for. Except she's part of the destructive element, but the argument is still accurate: we can't have a civil discussion between people who want to got duped into contributing to creating a cyberpunk dystopia ruled by megacorporations and inhabited by 80 IQ mongrels and those who want to preserve what's left of the West after two most devastating world wars in the history of mankind.
There was a good screengrab of Jow Forums greentext about how wanting more regulation or less regulation, more taxes or less taxes is irrelevant because it's still better than wanting to vote a traitor and a criminal into office.
I used to hate socialists, and while I still do to an extent, I understand their worldview is just a misinformed attempt to make everyone happy. I don't hate-hate them anymore, but we all have a more insidious and sinister enemy who doesn't care the differences in our views to make our people happy, instead exploiting them to their benefit.
Take heart. We're all going to make it, bros and I have a feeling they underestimated us for the last time in history.

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>The left-right difference is largely artificial because both parties were hijacked by those who serve only their own interests long ago. The discourse between different alternatives used to be a thing simply because it about two parties discussing how to make the best possible deal for their own homogeneous society.
EXACTLY. You could be more left leaning, more soft, or you could be more right leaning. Go fuck yourself i'm not paying for your shit. But ultimately it was about achieving a balance there so both sides got what was satisfactory. Much like unions lobby with companies that want to deflate their wages and keep most of profits for themselves. And they would say hey buddy. You need to pay your workers a bit more or our society is not going to run very well. Constant negotiations like that. But everyone understood it was only minor negotiations back and forth, and the change between more soft policies and more hard policies was more reactionary. Sometimes due to a situation in the country. it made perfect sense that the right should lead. The right tends to be very logical, very little emotional, and more of like. You need to learn to take care of yourself. Where the left is more, perhaps babysitting people and say ok if you get in trouble, you need to be helped so you don´t fall through the cracks because this is bad for our society. So sometimes depending on situation In the country. It would be very much right sided when needed and very much left sided when needed. And then stabilize they back to the small part negotiations. Both wanting their nation to do good and both realizing not to overextend themselves. Most important thing people do good nation do good. And the people had loyalty to this be it politician or business man or worker or anybody. To this overall thing.
That´s such a good post. Also continued

And then this happened which you describe. So eloquently.
>Then someone realised it is possible to just import voters who will subscribe to any policies of their benefactors as long as they don't directly harm their interests. This is why we have such extreme disagreements over how western countries should be run. Hillary was, perhaps unwittingly, right about one thing - you cannot remain civil when dealing with people who want to destroy everything you stand for. Except she's part of the destructive element, but the argument is still accurate: we can't have a civil discussion between people who want to got duped into contributing to creating a cyberpunk dystopia ruled by megacorporations and inhabited by 80 IQ mongrels and those who want to preserve what's left of the West after two most devastating world wars in the history of mankind.
EXACTLY. When people abandon the basic common logic of the integrity of your people and nation. And it´s abandon rationality. and start doing this. Then it becomes what it shouldn´t be. Some kind of power struggle. Some want to destroy their country for short term special interests or whatever. And some don´t. This is treason those who do this. And is not normal left right negotiations. It´s a betrayal of that. And then you end up with the treasonous branch, and the nationalist branch who want to reel them back in to the basic discussions again.
People like to talk about special interests. Foreigners are a FUCKING SPECIAL INTEREST. You bring them in they don´t have loyalty to your people. They have loyalty to themselves. Civic nationalism can go suck a big fat dick. Because unless you force them to be nationalists and stand for same thing as you. You have absolutely no guarantee that they won´t completely work against your people, your values, everything your country is and everything you believe in and everything you multigenerationally worked for to make your country into.

I've cant say Baudrillard is too bad, I agree with some of his works.
The problem with saying capitalism seeps into culture is rhetorical, first of all culture is redefined. What people in culture often refers to as culture is not even close to what we see as culture. Culture for most people is a combination of their way of life, traditional arts and crafts and shared history.
Culture for a lot of people today is defined in a much more condescending way. That the same people whose held power for the last 200 years, both left wing and right wing establishment politicians should control the sphere which naturally evolves, our culture. And the definition now includes almost everything sociological, which is an erosion of the older anthropological understanding of what culture was or is supposed to be.
But it has to do with modernity and deconstructionism.

So the question comes down to, is it possible to salvage anything of value from the burning ruins of modern post 1970s Marxism. maybe, maybe not.

Most of the criticism of capitalism is outdated and the does not take into account the way power is structured now. Global conglomerates of international foundations and corporations, which lobbies some of the biggest political institutions in the world. EU, USA, Russia, China, etc it's basically everywhere. But there is no or very little opposition to it because of the way the system is built to prevent direct criticism.

This is why populism works so well. Instead of debating the structure people took control by subverting the system and getting their non-official candidate to opt out of international treaties, or institute protectionism.

It's a great way to destabilize the fragile foundation of this globalized system of corruption. But is it capitalism? Who knows, I've never seen a good definition of capitalism, its more of a wild goose chase than anything else.

>I used to hate socialists, and while I still do to an extent, I understand their worldview is just a misinformed attempt to make everyone happy

Here's a long comment made some 7 years ago that is especially relevant for the United States, but from the perspective of his my own country, Romania -- a country that threw off a brutal communist dictator many years ago. A highlight here. The context was: The vast majority of dupes -- lured by altruism. True. These are the people who retain some sense of metaphysical *competence*. They want to do good, however distorted their standard. But the vast majority of *power-lusters* -- not. **By there own estimates they are incompetent to exist.**

_____

This is their only code of morality. They know somehow that it is wrong to steal, to lie, or to deceit. But they do it nonetheless, because "the end justifies the means", and what could be so wrong with their desire of "bright future", right? They want everyone to be happy, live a long life, even for free, or without work, because "that's what the robots are for". What could be wrong in this. And if someone is suffering somehow from a grea injustice, well, this is the "exception that confirms the rule" so they must be ignored, silenced, a "necessary sacrifice" on the road. They even expect those sacrifices to be made at some point (because the moral inversion comes also a temporal inversion as well - they already know that the "future is bright", they know "the way" like they have been there already and just come back to guide us all, no matter if we want it or not, even by force).

(cont)
And what do the treasonous parties and people say to the nationalists. Often spearheaded by catering to immigrants, who show their disloyalty to your nation and people and want to TRANSFORM IT INSTEAD. What do they say to the nationalists? Well you´re a racist. Well sorry this is not acceptable to dismiss it like that. Because our nation is about our people. And we want the negotiations between political parties to be normal again.

It's more that plain and simple incompetence (in absolute every single domain), or just power to control others, like Robert said. It's incompetence and the desire to control "for a common good". It's the intention to do "good" by any means necessary, it's like they already know what's the "right way", without having any doubt at all. This is why, for them, the "goal justifies the means". This is why they have no problem to steal the election, for example, or lie about them, or on any other subject. Because of this temporal (and moral) inversion. (*here is also the motive why they accept criminals among them - they find them "useful" for their goal).

"In Germany, Heinrich Himmler was often seen crying and asking, "why these Hebrew bastards force us to do so much violence?" He felt he was a victim. The same reaction we see and Che Guevara, he was extremely shocked that people forced him to shoot and kill them. Examples of this inversion are so numerous, that the only difficulty is to choose.

In a classic book of Psychiatry, published in 1909 by the French psychiatrist Paul serieux, Les Folies raisonnantes, he describes a psychotic picture which he called "delirium of interpretation" which is distinguished from other forms of delirium by not exhibit any sensory disturbance. This means that the perception that the individual have of the facts was correct, he had hallucinations, but somehow mount information in a delirious way. This means for them, all that data can be real. If you see the books of Marx, Hitler's Mein Kampf, or the writings of Che Guevara, we find there are a lot of facts perfectly real but are delusional because they are interpreted according to that future that is given to them, as "known".

If we ask how this temporal inversion and change occurred and started on the perception of time, we must go far in history, up to the first generation of Christians, who had doubts about the date of the second coming of Jesus. In the first centuries of Christianity there were many discussions about this, because obviously, the second coming was considered "absolute certainty", but in the same them, there is no date provided. This means that the second coming has a long track of record in history and a shift from time to eternity is not just a chapter in history (nr: used only now by leftists around the world), but a constant theme."

The only problem they have is with Reality. It's when life proves them wrong in every single action that they do. Those sacrifices start to multiply, sometimes exponentially, the injustice spreads everywhere, but they still lie themselves that everything is good. They still imagine that "glorious future", and they are still willing make any compromise to reach it. Bread lines start to form (*because you can't find anywhere even simple bread, because the "rationalized" system - such irony - could not not cope with the basic demand of even bread or milk / it's not not like the basic products are somewhere in some store but they are expensive - everyone is suffering, even the party members struggle to buy some goods - a simple VCR, or an old videcamera, for example). Everyone is seeing that the system is not working, but at the exact time, day by day, all the media was saying that everyone is living in the best times ever. And had even production estimates, and statistics to prove it. Despite the fact that all of them are driving cars from the 60's, like they do now in Cuba. Or the fact that you had to wait 7 years to install a simple fixed telephone.

Jow Forums didn't exist in 2007, newfag.

>been here forever
Been here since 2004. You shoulda been here last night there was a bunch of oldfags and we got some nostalgia feels

And that we must "fight to defend" the big steps that we took along that glorious road. Some even though that the West is envy on our "success".. Some think in these terms even today.

This is madness. Pure and simple psychiatric madness. If you say to them that you do not agree with their methods of reaching that goal (let's say you don't agree to rig the vote - or pass a law in Congress without reading it), first they treat you like a naive, idealist that must be "helped" (read reeducated) somehow, put on a "good track", then they ignore you, and then they try to get rid of that annoyance. Because it distracts them from their goal, or even offends them. And yes, they are easily offended by lots of things. Reality, in special, offends them the most, so you can imagine how sad and tensed they are every single day, almost all the time (that's the reason most of them go on drugs and alcohol to escape it somehow).

The situation gets really serious really fast when you take some legal action against them. Try to prove that they really stole the elections, and see what they do. In Romania this is a forbidden subject. Everyone knows that the election was rigged but no one is talking about this subject. Why? Because if the proof exists, then the party that gave and obeyed that order would need to be dissolved, with criminal charges against every single accomplice. And this is a question of life and death to them. Some party member could go to prison, from time to time, they could be "sacrificed" (if caught). This is "acceptable" - the Party will take care of them afterwards anyway. But to dissolve the Party (even on Constitutional basis), no. Never! This would be the biggest blow on their scale, it would hurt their dignity (which they treasure so much - despite not knowing what it is) definitively, and for good. It's not about integrity at all. It's about them surviving this "offence", and knowing that they will not.

>I've been here since forever (2007)
Lurk more newfag. 2007 was the beginning of the end.

In my opinion, this is the best way to deal with leftists: complete annihilation of their lies. And also of the party, of that criminal gang. And by law, because I am sure that US Constitution could be invoked and have amendments in order to punish "the party" that tried to steal this basic, fundamental, civic right. This is the approach I was surprised NOT to see anywhere in US, when some indirect proofs about Obama election reached the public opinion. No one talked about dissolving "the party", or parties involved. If one or more representatives were involved, then the whole party should take responsibility for their actions. And by the law, it should be dissolved. It's their problem, that's why they have an ethic code, party commissions to verify their members do not breach the Constitution. But my impression is that no one wants to talk about this because as it was in Communism, the subject was "too hot".

As Olavo de Carvalho said, if the Right is not willing to do to the Left what the Left has done to the Right in the last 100 (or 1000) years, everything is doomed for failure. And this is not about individuals, it's not about leftists (I wish them a long and happy life). It's about principles. "The end justifies the means" should end right now if we (all) want to have a future. No crime should ever go unpunished again. This is not tolerance, it's injustice to the innocent, and it affects us all in the end."

I'm still a leftist philosophically, but it eventually became too obvious that the main goal of the current so-called left is destroying me.

This site was on the Left because you cunts suck muslim cock and always have.
Most of you have come to your senses and went right or left this shithole of degeneracy.

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Nah. It was the end of the beginning.

I had obama stickers on my jeep.
I voted for Trump.

Shit happens..

>is it possible to salvage anything of value from the burning ruins of modern post 1970s Marxism

Read Guy Debords - Society of the Spectacle

If anything it is prophetic of what is happening today. Even just read the first 3 pages and you will see what I mean

What do you mean destroying you?

You’re a reactionary against Marxism but you want something better than jewish libnigger Democratic capitalism or ancient feudalism. Read mein kampf and the manifesto for the abolition of interest slavery to hit the next level of redpill

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>Guy Debords
I'll give it a read when I have time

>What do you mean destroying you?
Cute!
I think he means anti white propaganda in white nations. Video related. Including, trying to dismantle cohesion between your people. Bringing in people who are not your people and saying they should cater to themselves instead of standing with the people of that nation and fully adopt those principles. Anti natality propaganda/telling your people not having kids, and bringing in lots of people and children from different countries. Just the whole shabang.
youtube.com/watch?v=yTSspBgHcG8
Nationalists have no problem respecting other people in other nations. They just don´t necessarily want to be minority in their own country. Because they want their country to e about them. Not somebody else. Nobody wants to be a tourist in their own country. This is not hard to grasp. Nobody wants to give their country over to foreigners. That is not hard to grasp. This is what the 'progressive' left have been spearheading over the many decades now. And they have now gotten so extremely radical about this, that it´s very bad news.

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>be leftist
>find some milton friedman videos
>ideas about welfare and affirmative action, free college, and all that shit is dismantled and buttfucked
>excitedly tell other liberals about this thinking they'd want to know
>get treated like literally hitler and never get to finish my thought process without being interrupted
>all arguments for these programs are all based on emotion and logical arguments are completely ignored
>go to a place where I won't get called hitler for thinking the welfare state as it is, is fucked up and free college is retarded
>that place is Jow Forums

Thats how you take a leftist with some intellectual curiosity and turn him into a libertarian who knows that he'd be in better company with literal fascists than liberals.

It´s scary how correct he was about that part. Political parties are supposed to represent the people. And represent a negotiation between people to the state of their society. And the policies left or right more micro negotiation related to the situation in their countries. Instead they serve special interests/people with the money. Same thing with the press, he´s so right. The press owned by a few masters control public oppinion. And express the oppinions of those who own them. Instead of being under strict regulation to be completely objective. They engage in subjective propaganda beholden to whoever who owns them, and what they would desire people to believe politically. TELLING THEM what to think. TELLING THEM how to vote etc.

Example about the US 'free press'.
youtube.com/watch?v=_fHfgU8oMSo
92% negative coverage of trump. Including on the economy. Including on immigration, eventhough illegals are there against US law. The media sides with their plight instead of US law. Free press my ass. This is just expressing exactly the political oppinion of who owns them. This is why they are busy telling you what to think instead of objectively and factually reporting what happened. And taking no particular political position about it. And you then paying them to report the news and goings on. This is what they SHOULD be doing. But this is not what they are doing. Free press my ass!
Owned by what less than 10 wealthy individuals or whatever? And a handful of media conglomerates.

>thinks someone has to either be aligned with one side or the other
>has the nerve to call others NPC
Never change, NPCs. It makes me feel more alive seeing you regurgitate your programmed responses

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The fact that I'm treated as some kind of sociopath for not giving any credibility to emotional arguments is rediculous.

Like I'm supposed to just do whatever you want and suck your dick because "muh dead kids" or "I was raped and you have to believe her, because if you don't believe her, you don't believe me"

>Who here was on the left before ~2016?
Doesn't count. The political scales constantly shift towards greater leftism before societal collapse. What was radical leftism 30 years ago is now considered far right. This probably only ends with violence and restructuring.

>ridiculousness

Did you really know how to spell that?

Your meme flag makes me suspicious, but the wiki synopsis is interesting so I might read it.

Nowdays being a centrist means either wanting all blacks dead or getting gangbanged by them

we are a poorfag country and we have it.

lets bring it to the floor aaaand you got it. yes, also more taxes, but key is make it shit tier and there you go.

still beter than northern africa so that moroccan females go to ceuta and melilla to give birth for free

Not all of them, there are feminists who fucking hate Sjw and all other types of cancer generated by Tumblr

>I read a encyclopedia Dramatica page and am not pretending to be reddit
You do know 85% of oldfags here just migrated from /b/ when they grew up

We can all become Bolsheviks. The Old-Style type.

The funny thing is when you run into a younger version of yourself, it's so cringeworthy. Like recently I was speaking to a guy who wants to go into politics in the UK because he thinks the conservatives have gone too far to the right and wants to "force out all the bigots" and implement open borders policies.

What can you even say to someone like that, all you can do is hope they see their own stupidity over time.

nazi scumbags
DIE

free college would be fine if it was training a productive work force

ridicule
did you actually somehow manage to not laugh in his face

>3 min in already telling the US to defend Israel.
and into the trash it goes.