Why are you against socialism exactly?

I'm against Marxism not socialism. Socialism is inherent to every society, even crapitalist ones. Even in a "true crapitalist" society, not that such a thing could exist, there exists private networks of charities, churches, and the like which provide social services to its indigent classes.
I would ask in return, why do you insist on following a phony revolutionary ideology which corporate and state authorities encourage and reward you for possessing, especially when every instance of this ideology succeeding with a revolution devolved into petty tyrannies or state capitalism?
Reminder, the actual proletariat always sides with fascists and national socialists when given the choice, never with the anarchists and communists who are composed of petit bourgeois and lumpenproles.

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Are you really saying charity is only a Socialist thing?

What a fucking joke.

Private charity is a form allowed in Capitalism, socialism is the government run version of that which takes money rather than is given money to do it.

Seriously dumb person here.

>Subhuman defending communism
Pottery. SAGE.

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how is that on socialism?

that's my point

how is this an argument? are you 12 or something?
>[thing] is bad not because of what it is but because [people] like it

retard

nazism is not socialism.

>Socialism is inherent to every society, even crapitalist ones.
stopped reading there, you don't know what socialism is.
it's the collective ownership of the means of production.
capitalism is the private ownership of the means of production.
they're literally opposites.

Charity is socialism, it's socializing the care of the needy via private, voluntary means.
Private socialism exists just like state capitalism exists, sorry you lack nuance in your thought.

>how is that on socialism?
how is it not? marxism calls for revolution, revolution is violent

I know what socialism is, and it's not your revisionist Marxist definition, sorry pal, Marxists aren't the arbiters of meaning, they don't get to redefine words and force everyone to comply. Just because cuckservatives are inherently leftist and constantly capitulate to leftist reframing of terminology and morality, doesn't mean that actual rightists will roll over for your bullshit tactics. So fuck right off with your MUH STATE CONTROLLING THE MEANS OF PRODUCTION that's only true of Marxist "socialism", ie blatant Jewish supremacism, as opposed to capitalism, ie subtle Jewish supremacism.

*teleports you to gulag*
*starves half your family to death*
Nothin personal kulak...

yes, Marxism, not socialism, but a specific branch of it.
not to mention that you named "genocides", that's not revolution.

>Not real socialism

please point out the post where I said something wasn't real socialism.

>yes, Marxism, not socialism, but a specific branch of it
so how would you take over the means of production peacefully, while avoiding capital flight?

>not to mention that you named "genocides", that's not revolution.
get real. revolution doesn't work if you coddle the bourgoisie

>socialism isn't what it actually is, but what I say it is for the purposes of supporting my flimsy arguments
ftfy

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socialism predates Marx.
Marx didn't invent the term, it means the collective ownership of the means of production, and it always has.
you are the one trying to redefine it.

>for the record, socialism isn't welfare state or redistribution of wealth, that's social democracy.

I have seen its products close and they are awful

Mohammed the most perfect man, (PBUH) was a reader and a merchant. Any attempt to end free trade is an attack on Islam and will be met with violence and condemnation. You and your kind are an affront to Allah and will be destroyed.

Hahahahaha, this is why Argentina is a shit hole. Unironically believing in socialism in 2018

it's not my fault that mongoloids call social democracy "socialism" when it literally doesn't fit the definition.

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You fucking idiot don't understand shit, Charity =/= Socialism.

Socialism is inherently the State governed system because the people (i.e government) control what's being produced etc.

This is why you guys are laughable, charity has always been done by rich capitalist or working class people who have a little bit of change to give to the poor.

Are you saying donations are socialist now?

Your lack of intelligence is not amazing, I'm not even shocked you promote/want socialism.

Socialism is the act of government taking from YOU with a gun pointed at your head if you don't and then redistributing it through heavy taxation to other people.

Obviously you have never lived in a "Socialist" country before.

>opens with commie shit.

Report trolls, do not reply.

You are retarded.

>Why are you against taking away the right to own a business?

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Sorry but this graph is wrong about capitalism, nobody is forcing you to work with a gun pointed at your head. Nice try troll.

superb post, amazing insight.

>if you discuss politics on a board for the discussion of politics you are a troll
retard

>why are you against socialism exactly?
Because it's Jewish and anti-White.

>more often than not, people are against it because of dumb misconceptions created by capitalist propaganda.c
According to you Judeo Communists.

>for the record, socialism isn't welfare state or redistribution of wealth, that's social democracy.
For the record, Marxist Socialism is Jewish and anti-White.

So why do you believe Jewish ideologies should be allowed in White countries?

yes, the capitalist state is because it protects the private ownership of the means of production, which means poor people have no choice but to work for somebody else to earn a living.

>yes, the capitalist state is because it protects the private ownership of the means of production, which means poor people have no choice but to work for somebody else to earn a living.
Well, Capitalism is just as Jewish and anti-White as Communism...

Pretty much the same as yours, hypocrite.

You don't need to work for someone if you got skills and know how to take risks.

Seriously socialists are idiots.

>socialism isn't welfare state
True, it's worse

>or redistribution of wealth
Highly debatable when it Congress to Marxist socialism, which is essentially the standard form.

>why aren't you a socialist
Among other reasons, I've never met a socialist who understands how value works, and the reasons given for why private property is bad are invariably ludicrous our massively simplistic.

>actually the only reason why socialism has failed repeatedly in the past is because that wasn't real socialism
>actually the only reason why anyone should be against socialism is because of capitalist propaganda
>yes of course I have an internal monologue why do you ask

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This faggot again. Eat shit zurdo kirchnerista.

Socialism is state ownership of the means of production faggot. The new definitions try to sugar coat it by saying it's "public ownership" (which is the same thing). Workers ownership is an empty promise from communism and it only happens when you go in on a business together under capitalism. You're either for private ownership (capitalism) or you're not.

>socialism
>posts commie sickle

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>have no choice
Except they have. In socialist country people are inprisonned if they refuse to work for state

how? how is it Jewish and anti-white exactly?
we hate Jews for the exact same reason, we just don't believe they're genetically predisposed to behave like isolationist, elitist capitalist, explotative fucks, it's just their culture, the jewish culture, which we socialists hate.

Having social services doesn't make a country socialist you absolute mongoloid.

>it means the collective ownership of the means of production
Nope. It's original meaning were pro-social policies, social services, services provided and funded collectively by the public. Having a publicly funded educational system is socialist, though, even collective private education funded and governed collectively by exclusive participants is socialist.

OP is a commie faggot.

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>Are you saying donations are socialist now?
Yes, it's pro-social behavior.

He's right about welfare.

>Obviously you have never lived in a "Socialist" country before.
PS, I don't care about your gay Yuropoor political definitions, your definition of democracy is whatever EU social engineers demand.

>how? how is it Jewish
Created by Jews.
Enacted by Jews.
Benefits Jews.
Beliefs are Jewish.

>and anti-white exactly?
The Jews in their beliefs and actions are inherently anti-White.

>we hate Jews for the exact same reason
No, you don't hate Jews. You love Jews. You protect Jews.

>we just don't believe they're genetically predisposed to behave like isolationist, elitist capitalist, explotative fucks, it's just their culture, the jewish culture, which we socialists hate.
You deny the fact that the Jews are a non-White race.
You deny the fact that the Jews are anti-White.
You actually believe Jews belong in White nations.

That makes you anti-White.

imagine being this retarded.
how is this true at all?
and how does not having skills mean that you deserve to be exploited anyway?
you're a literal retard.

ohh no, everybody is equally liable to work, how awful, how will your lazy ass be able to cope with this? it's inhumane!

Redistribution of wealth and private property among the masses is the primary objective mentioned by ((marx)) in his communist manifesto. Social democrats are the wannabe communist bourgeoisie trying to merge communism and democracy in order to save their property and status.

I'm not going to put any serious thought into this so I'll just give you the first thing that came to my mind: my great-grandparents fought for the whites so if the communist uprising we had in 1918 had succeeded I wouldn't be alive today. Not even my parents or grandparents would be.

I like the concept of private property
I like slav culture
I don't like race-mixers
I don't like jews who propagate it.

>Holodomor
jew meme. All the country was starving, and droughts happen all the time.

>imagine being this retarded.
Said the anti-White Judeo Communist promoting Communism on Jow Forums of all places.

Dunno, maybe because every single major socialist is jew and is anti-white? Cause their politics directly lead to ‘lets rob whites, exterminate their elites and force them to live amongst savages’?

Nice try shlomo look at how multicultural and diverse North Korea or Belarus is now look at France America Briton Germany canada Sweden and every country that's been capitalist for a long time

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The entire construct of Communism/Socialism is based on a Contradiction, it limits Social change, the one thing that it needs to 'thrive'.

Actually Marx addressed the ills of capitalism of his time correctly, but his criticism is not applicable today because governments regulate the fuck out of everything.

I dont hate socialism, I just hate socialists

Are you saying paying tips is socialism? For example a waitress in a restaurant earns her wage by getting tips?

That's DONATION, capitalism etc. If I like some busker on the street that's playing well and I donate some of my money to him, that's not socialism, that's capitalism.

You are 1IQ brainlet, please just end yourself already.

>Worker owned means of production
How does that happen? By taking physical assests from private hands and giving it to the public aka Redistribution of wealth.

This goes without saying but you seem like a brainlet, not the usual kind of braindead commie but one who hasn't even thought through the most basic concepts.

His definition is correct you dipshit. The USA tends to use the term wrong and make socialism sound less bad than it is, making it easier for real socialists to creep into the political scene.

>Created by Jews.
>Enacted by Jews.
>Benefits Jews.
>Beliefs are Jewish.
none of those things is correct.
specially the "benefits Jews" bit
>The Jews in their beliefs and actions are inherently anti-White.
ok now explain why socialism is anti white, which is what I asked you, and you gave a completely different answer.
>No, you don't hate Jews. You love Jews. You protect Jews.
I fucking hate jews.
>You deny the fact that the Jews are a non-White race.
what? when have I done that?
>You deny the fact that the Jews are anti-White.
I don't know, but I don't care because I'd hate them anyways.
>You actually believe Jews belong in White nations.
again, I don't care.

>which means poor people have no choice but to work for somebody else to earn a living.
I mean, in every economic system people are required to provide some good or service or labor to others in order to earn a living, or they earn a living via subsistence farming which requires labor being paid to nature with whom a guarantee of return on that labor is non-existent unlike with an employer with whom one contract one's labor.
The proletariat voluntarily enter into an agreement with the employer class of labor for guaranteed return in the form of wage payment; the only other options than wage labor in any system are subsistence production or entrepreneurship both of which entails risk and no guarantee of a return on labor.

Well, exceeding plans is their thing. Like Khruschev who asked to increase shooting quotas because he was using them up in no time.

>how do you expect me to be something other than what I'm told to be

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Because maintained capitalism is freedom

Hitler's Germany was perfection,communism and capitalism are anti culture and pro globalisation.

You are not being exploited.

Nobody is forcing you, again, to be working somewhere you don't like.

Nobody is forcing you to be exploited. You have the freedom to choose what to do.

I can’t stand the thought of my money going to help fat fucks get free healthcare.

don't want to be poor, starving, and retarded.

>you are not allowed to hold products of your arms
And he has nerves to ask why people oppose socialism.

>"Socialist is first recorded in the English language in the late 18th century, and the Oxford English Dictionary gives the first historical meaning as ‘one who lives in (civilized) society’."

Wrong. Socialism didn't necessarily mean the"dissolution of private property" until Marx defined it and communists propagated it as such.

It was real socialism back in the good old Stalinist days than a bunch of faggot jews took power

>private property
Private property is merely the evolution of mammalian territorality and is a morally neutral thing, I suppose. Remember, Marxists are anti-nature humanists, anything natural to complex social mammalian behavior and organization is anathema to them.

People who can be exploited deserve to do so because humans are animals and morality doesnt exist

>why are you against socialism exactly?

I'm not if it's the national version of it.

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> social democracy
The real, non-meme term for this is ὀχλοkρατία.

You must work under communism this isin't slavery you sperg this is freedom from the vast poverty and despair of unemployment

>Are you saying paying tips is socialism?
No, tipping is individualistic action, donating to an organized charity is a collective action.

>none of those things is correct.
Marx, Lenin and Trotsky were Jews.
The Bolshevik revolution was Jewish.
The first soviet government was mostly Jewish.
Stalin was fucking a Jew.
Stalin was surrounded by Jews.

>specially the "benefits Jews" bit
Stalin made anti-Semitism a crime punishable by death.

>ok now explain why socialism is anti white,
Marxist Socialism denies the racial basis for civilization.
...Does not care about the existence of the White race.
...Believes non-Whites have a right to be in White nations.
...Turns people into soulless worker automatons.

You want to destroy race, family, history, heritage, culture, tradition and faith. You want to destroy everything that makes the White race White.

>I fucking hate jews.
Except when they're Communists like Marx, Lenin and Trotsky.

>what? when have I done that?
So you admit the Jews are a race and that the Jewish race is non-White?

>again, I don't care.
If Jews don't belong in White nations, then neither do their ideologies. Such as Communism.

"Real socialism is just Marxism, call it that, use its actual name. Even better, call it Judeo-Marxism and compare it with Judeo-capitalism.

You can't trust people and power corrupts. Put all authority in to the leaders of one party. Your asking to be fucked over. Stalin was what socialism was always going to produce.

>I mean, in every economic system people are required to provide some good or service or labor to others in order to earn a living
in a capitalist society you can own means of production and have other people generate money for you as you scratch your ass all day long.
>The proletariat voluntarily enter into an agreement with the employer class of labor for guaranteed return in the form of wage payment
what option does he have if not to work for somebody else? there's no way the worker can decide to not agree and carry on with a normal life since substistence production would require you to have land or be able to work land and that's not possibly nowadays since all land is owned by somebody.

>Nobody is forcing you, again, to be working somewhere you don't like.
it's not working somewhere I don't like, it's working under an exploitative system.
>Nobody is forcing you to be exploited
yes, capitalism, you either get exploited or you don't have money to sustain your life, you can't afford a house, food, basic services like running water, electricity, gas, etc.
>You have the freedom to choose what to do
no you don't, as a poor person you can only choose who exploits you.

if morality doesn't exist, you can't claim that anyone "deserves" anything

The Only reason thay started regulating things was because thay we're scared of a communist revolution if thay didn't offer
concessions

To exist in a society is to exploit and be exploited, the definition of exploit being to utilize something. In most societies one exploits or utilizes another for benefit and in exchange the other usually exploits or utilizes the one for its benefit.
The negative connotation to exploit notwithstanding, fuck connotations, denotations are what matter, and denotatively "to exploit" is morally neutral.

Economic calculus kills socialism.

wat? are you talking about not being able to keep what you produce?
so what? the point is to abolish worker exploitation, it doens't matter if you keep what you produced or not, what matters is that your work gets fully paid and nobody takes a cut off it for themselves (profit)

I love how you cut off the quote where you wanted
>Appropriately enough, the OED also notes that this now quaint sense of the word is both obsolete and rare, having had a very short lifespan.
you can keep using obsolete definitions that were in use for like a 20th of the time the proper definition has been in use all you want, that doesn't make them right.

Im anti-egalitarian, accept some aspects of capitalism, a ccept political realism, and not a fan of their wish washy nationalism.

Wow keep on dreaming socialism is like this.

Donating to a charity is basically investing into a group although it will not give you usually any returns, don't tell me stock markets are socialism now too.

"I believe what you guys are doing, therefore, I'll help you out with my money since I can't do it myself physically to help the cause." Doesn't sound like a collectivist action. I'm doing it out of my own free will (Individually decide) to help a group further their actions.

Collectivism is the act of the bigger collective deciding that you need to hand out your money to the them NOW because a law was passed.

>you dont want to dig channel with your bare hands? Too bad, fucking bourgeois scum! Its beatings time!
A fucking leaf telling me about slavery and communism. We are reaching levels of shitpost that should not be even possible.

Stalin destroyed more Jews then Hitler you literal retard

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Humans have a reward centre as with most species in the animal kingdom. If I am not rewarded for something that required a lot of physical and/or mental labor then nothing will be accomplished. Communism is moneyless, stateless, and classless - so no success or climbing the social hierarchy for you.

But, you speak of Socialism. Socialism usually requires a state to owns the means of production. But how can a small group of people know what over 7 billion people want and need (produce)? And know where to distribute? Simply put, you cannot. With Capitalism you have a free market - PEOPLE decide what it is they want or need and then money is used as a feedback mechanism to decide what to produce and where to distribute it - it certainly isn't perfect, but so far it has worked ok with some regulation.

I'm sorry, but a large state that owns all the production just is not a good idea - you hate on corporations (a small group of individuals) for being too powerful, but you want to give ALL the power to the state (a small group of individuals)?

What makes you think the state will be any different from those corporations? Any sociopath or narcassist could easily manipulate their way to power no matter what system you live under. And evil and selfishness will always exist as well.