Are you voting Yes on Proposal 2 Jow Forums?

Go read about prop 2.
I'm not going to tell you what to go think. It's useless. You're just going to buy into whatever the last person sold you.
But if you go read, and you go try to use your own braincells, maybe; just maybe, doing some thinking on your own you'll realize how these people have tricked you.

>this discussion is over
cute
Here is an older article about:
bridgemi.com/public-sector/driveway-driveway-these-volunteers-aim-end-gerrymandering-michigan
Whats the problem
The AG opposes it
He is a Koch Crony:
detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2018/07/03/schuette-americans-prosperity-california-donors/755069002/
You whine about Jews like a fucking retard and yet here you are DOING THE BIDDING OF THE KOCH BROTHERS.

>cute
I didn't say the discussion is over.
You have seriously exposed yourself as being unable to identify basic pieces of prop 2 while you continue to argue for prop 2.
I said that it was counterproductive to hold your hand into understanding what the basics of 4 republicans, 4 democrats, and 4 independents, and one consultant means.
Don't gloss over this shit.

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>Stop gerrymandering by voting yes to give us legal gerrymandering for this one time!

All you two-party shills need to be fed to raccoons while alive.
Kill yourself for sucking corporate dick.

>You have seriously exposed yourself as being unable to identify basic pieces of prop 2 while you continue to argue for prop 2.

Your argument is to trust a political party to draw the boundaries

>I said that it was counterproductive to hold your hand into understanding what the basics of 4 republicans, 4 democrats, and 4 independents, and one consultant means.

You said no such thing you just rambled off numbers like a stroke victim

Yes, there should be no political party representatives on the board at all. It should be an entirely independent civil service. This is no doubt a compromise to try to get the parties to support it.
Do you want know no system at all leaving one political party drawing districts, or an imperfect system that does a better job and can be improved upon?

>an independent body is gerrymandering

Is English not your first language?

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>rigged
>has niggers from Detroit and WWC outside of the city.
You really only need like 2-5 more points to compensate for gerrymandering, if your party can't break that with the most elastic electorate in the country (white people) then yes, you deserve to be locked out of power. What a bunch of utter incompetent idiots.

Jordan Peterson is a Koch shill

>dude lmao if you cant overcome our gerrymandering you're a loser

>t.future political "strategist"
Another parasite on humanity whose only proper place is through a wood chipper.

>You said no such thing you just rambled off numbers like a stroke victim
They're not random numbers to anyone who understands what prop 2 is. This is your fundamental problem. You don't know what prop 2 is. You are under this delusion of there being neutral third party.

>improved upon
It's an INITIATIVE. Parties don't need to buy into any part of it in order to get it passed.
You have to go back.

Do people who want both major wings of the uniparty tortured to death like the artistocratic terrorists they are count as "neutral third parties"?

>you can not improve upon something once you have created it
why

>complaining about losing a a state that was solid democrat 20 years earlier
Yeah, something tells me it wasn't gerrymandering that lost you the state legislature.
Tell your party to get more protectionist on trade policy and maybe you'll do better, like Casey in PA.

democrats literall hand out filled crap papers to illegales so they can vote, san fran hands out drivers licenses to vote, democrats had literal voter fraud rings in 2016. The only thing i would ever support is voter id, ever asked yourself why democrats dont want it even after it is standard in every single other western country in the world for the last 100 years? No? Thats why you are a low iq faggot.

also did you ever consider that Democrats are already known for having shit policies that breed social unrest, crime and kill the middle class

Last time a Republican was Mayor in the following cities:
Atlanta - 1879
Chicago - 1931
Baltimore - 1967
Detroit - 1962
New Orleans - 1872
Pittsburgh - 1934
Seattle - 1946
Philadelphia - 1952
No wonder they have failing schools, high crime, and poverty.

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1. Who the fuck knows what the legislature could do between now and then?
2. Why should we wait? That's liberal thinking and you should take off your memeflag.

The real question is why BOTH parties insist on using machines to count and mark ballots instead of human hands, in public. Maybe both parties are partners.

They don't
Stop listening to the crazy Americans on this board: washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/july-august-2018/how-the-right-wing-convinces-itself-that-liberals-are-evil/
>democrats had literal voter fraud rings in 2016
There was zero fraud, another one of Trumps unfounded claims later proved to be completely false
>ever asked yourself why democrats dont want it
it disenfranchises the poor and minorities?
>even after it is standard in every single other western country in the world for the last 100 years
Really? I get asked my address and if I have already voted and they cross me off the role

>also did you ever consider that Democrats are already known for having shit policies that breed social unrest, crime and kill the middle class
tax cuts for the rich, cut back of social services - defunding public schools and healthcare - and out of control military budget, stagnant wages for nearly 40 years, environmental degradation, harsh sentences for petty offences
These are Republican Party policies

you fucking moron

youtube.com/watch?v=NX2IQVwCFAk

washingtontimes.com/news/2018/oct/18/texas-democrats-ask-noncitizens-register-vote/

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Every time I've seen a "neutral third party", they are always not neutral at all. In fact it's impossible for anything to be truly "neutral". The media and the intelligence community are considered "neutral" when that clearly isn't the case. Being a "neutral third party" is basically the go to when you want to do things that aren't neutral at all.

>Who the fuck knows what the legislature could do between now and then?
Well unless it is alive it should do whats written on paper
>Why should we wait? That's liberal thinking and you should take off your memeflag.
Are you proposing something better and independent? No. You're proposing a political party found to repeatedly be gerrymander to be trusted with drawing districts because you have been deluded with bizarro fantasies about evil despotic democrats
>The real question is why BOTH parties insist on using machines to count and mark ballots instead of human hands, in public.
Money for contractors

>citing Washington Times
whats next, Cato Institute?

read it you fucking moron and its not just washington times and of course you wont find it on msnbc. and whats your excuse for indicments of democrats for a voter fraud ring in the 2016 election form the video?

>trump supporters are the proletariat
>proletariat support a billionaire born with a silver spoon in his mouth who exploits minorities and the poor born, brags about sexually assaulting women, brags about giving tax cuts to the rich, and vows to dismantle what little social safety net there is
troll harder

Who invited nigger shill OP to the party? Like seriously who the fuck cares about gerrymandering in 2018? Its been proven time and time again that both parties do it, and they do it in response to each other doing it.

I have an idea: let's implement stringent voter ID and add a bunch if rules regarding district mapping based on demographical changes? Because folks shouldn't lose their vote because the local government opened a bunch of Section 8 housing downtown.

hell you dont even need to believe me or any non msnbc source, just take the word of obama i mean you already believed every fart that he left off in his 8 years, dont change now.

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>Like seriously who the fuck cares about gerrymandering in 2018?

People in bizarre shaped districts who are not having their vote heard?

>Its been proven time and time again that both parties do it

muh both sides

But if that's the case, wouldn't you want to stop both of them?

>I have an idea: let's implement stringent voter ID

How does this stop a political party from drawing district boundaries?
Why does it disproportionately make it harder for the poor and minorities to obtain ID?
Why is it demanded so stridently when there is no evidence of fraud occurring?

>Because folks shouldn't lose their vote because the local government opened a bunch of Section 8 housing downtown.

What you mean is those people shouldn't vote in their district, right?
So, you just endorsed gerrymandering.
Thank you for illustrating what is driving this.

Everything you say contains buzzwords designed to trigger the aggression of a right leaning person
It is designed to antagonise their sense of victimhood

Always cheat, always win.

Cuckservatives and principled losers are worse than leftists.

>he actually thinks the two-party machine doesn't decide what gets to go on the paper
The absolute state of Michigan civics education, everyone.
>actually thinking I don't want both parties killed
You have to go back.
>The real question is why BOTH parties insist on using machines to count and mark ballots instead of human hands, in public.
Horseshit. It's so they can both disable candidates that endanger the two-party duopoly.
Put on your correct memeflag. Pic related

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Those of us who want both parties killed care.
>voter ID
How about the ID itself becomes a voter registration card, IF deemed eligible? Separate rolls are just asking for trouble.
Not that any of this matters until we vtoe paper ballots, hand-marked, hand-counted, in public.

>The absolute state of Michigan civics education, everyone.
Do you:
a) try to fix it
b) argue for one political party to be in charge of elections and drawing boundaries
>You have to go back.
You have argued for trusting the Republican Party to run it
>if deemed elligible
And Republicans will say "the form doesn't have a dot or a dash thats on the paperwork, inelligible." or "you didn't vote last year, you're off the voting role" or make it difficult to obtain for those on low incomes or minorities
Or any one of the other tricks THEY ARE USING RIGHT NOW

>anything that doesn't help the democrat party is republican
Kill yourself, neoliberal.
>BUH MUH REPUBLICANS
Why should I trust neoliberal Democrat machine politicians to do it either? Why are you not wearing the democrat memeflag like your sad two-party-loving content demands?
>b-but we NEED a ruling class to run our elections for us
This is the most compelling reason for you to kill yourself.

Normally I research every position and every candidate and vote according to who's best for what job, but not this fucking year. I'm voting straight Republican, I refuse to give those fucks even an inch

Nope. Dems gerrymandered our state for 60 years. Fuckem now.

>t.Talking Point USA shill

>t.another Talking Point USA shill
Shouldn't both of you kill yourselves for pledging fealty to a corporation?

>>anything that doesn't help the democrat party is republican
>Kill yourself, neoliberal.
If Republicans aren't running it then that's bad and wrong and evil and a conspiracy of jews and globalists and satanic child molesters
Its only fair and true and proper if Republicans runs it

Does that about sum up your thinking on this subject?

>Why should I trust neoliberal Democrat machine politicians to do it either?

You shouldn't which is why this about removing any political influence
You are convinced that if the Republicans cant control it then it will be corrupted
This fucking loopy

So you want gerrymandering, voter suppression, and corporate stranglehold?

>I am a child applying the logic of the schoolyard

how the fuck can you be also saying these things are you just trolling everything now? Or is your mind completely discordant?

>there are only two parties
>if you aren't for the one you have to be for the other
Have you considered suicide, or at least stopping trolling?
>giving the two-party machine 2/3 control over the system
That's why you should kill yourself.
>logic of the schoolyard
If you really think politics is anything more than this you should kill yourself for being a young, innocent child with no life experience.

>corporate stranglehold
Oh sweet child. There's a lot of things I want, personally if I had enough rope for every commie and fatcat alike that would be a great start. The current political climate is such that the Dems winning anything is against what I want. So I'll vote accordingly, even if it isn't "playing fair"

>I am so 18 I can't possibly conceive of anyone not wanting to suck the cock of one or the other right-wing corporate parties
>because corporate non-binding representation is FREEDOM
For the love of god go back to rebbit

>there are only two parties
>if you aren't for the one you have to be for the other
Have you considered suicide, or at least stopping trolling?

I haven't supported either party

I believe I said earlier that ideally the independent commission shouldn't have representatives from either party on it, that the current proposal is imperfect but better than nothing and can be improved upon

If you weren't so chaotic and angry and ready to attack everything we might have been able to agree to more than a few things

Fuck off and die.

Neoliberals aren't commies.

>I don't want the fatcats
>But I do want their politicians in the Republican Party running things 'cause they put the niggers in their place
pathetic

>The current political climate is such that the Dems winning anything is against what I want.
That doesn't even mean anything except that you've been deluded into think they're all kinds of evil
Which is just nonsense

I think the juvenile would be the one so edgy he has to be a violent reactionary to everything

I'm just saying I have zero reasons for voting Democrat or voting for their benefit.

>anything not bourgeois and liberal is reactionary
We know you're actually just scared to hell of the left getting some sort of power and I guarantee both of you crippledick parties will use your combined weight to prevent it.
Kill yourself for being a partisan shill.

The Democratic Party is the Less Extreme Faction of the Business Party
(I'll let you all figure out who the More Extreme Faction is)
Favouring neoliberal policies with some modest social liberalism, which they are reluctant to do anything serious about and don't mind a bit of institutional racism to make a buck (see Bubbas crime bill)

The base that votes for the party is a different matter

They range from liberal progressives to leftwing, voting for the party either because they are tricked by its PR or because they know what it is but have no alternative

A few candidates in the party here and there hold these same values, but the party management is firmly in the hands of corporate friendly hacks.

The Republican Party in order to justify its increasingly extreme positions and motivate its base of frothing mad reactionaries are now creating these scare stories of the Democratic Party being extreme zealots, Socialists, Communists, etc, engaged in widespread voter fraud, waging a war on Christmas, attacking Christian values, etc and even engaged in ritual satanic abuse with kidnapped children that seems lifted out of anti-Semitic tracts by way of True Detective

The need to engage in such deranged rhetoric shows how desperate they are to distract their base of support from how miserable their living conditions are becoming and to redirect their blame and anger elsewhere

And so we get your kinds of nonsense posts

>I want gerrymandering and voter disenfranchisement, environmental degradation, taxcuts for the rich, greater military expenditure, greater control over society by corporate elites
t.

>EVERYONE BUT ME IS WRONG

Do the Democrats run a platform of getting rid of firearms?
That's very much against what I want. So regardless of what fear mongering the Republicans do, they still get my vote.

Or I vote for the Democrats running the economy into the ground, banning guns, importing a quarter billion refugees, and making Amercia Mexico-lite.
Not that tough of a choice because at least one of those you can recover from

Most of the party has given up on that
The voters want something done
But this shows how little power over the party they have
>so long as I have muh gunz I dont care about all my other rights
This is a product of propaganda

>This party doesn't adhere to all of my beliefs
>I won't vote for them.

How childish, you will never find a party that 100% agrees with you on everything. Your only option is to either form your own party or choose the best of your options. Even if you form your own party, good luck finding enough people who are willing to agree to your positions 100% of the time.

If I want immigration reduced to absolutely 0, would I vote for Democrats who want more immigration or Republicans who want no change/slight reductions to the immigration system. Neither is want I want, but one of those choices is closer to my ideal then the other.

> running the economy into the ground
How are tax cuts and increased spending doing?
How is that trickle down economy doing?
Wages have been stagnant since Raygun, standards of living have been declining since Raygun
Mortality is going up, life expectancy is going on
Parts of the country look like the third world

This is the hardcore neoliberalism of the Republican Party

>banning guns
What did I just say? in the last post?

>importing a quarter billion refugees
How many would be leaving El Salvador and Guatemala and Nicaragua and Colombia and Honduras if it weren't for the Dirty Wars of the 1980s?
How many would be leaving Mexico if NAFTA hadn't fucked it?
Maybe do something about this?
Yes the corporate shill Democrats wont be
So that requires organising and pressure

Well what's your plan then? Vote for the liberals and crash the country with no survivors?

trips concur
radical baneposting is the only future

This thread is about voting for an end to gerrymandering
Your response to what I said about guns doesn't even make sense
>The party has given up on gun control lolwut haven't you seen that?
>so whats the plan then vote for liberals and crash the country with no survivors?
How does that connect to what I said?

Now as for crashing the country: How is that trickle down economics work? How are taxcuts for the rich, cutting social services, and increasing military expenditure working out?

this is a thread about voting no to prop 2: (((electric boogaloo)))

>Try to bring the thread back to gerrymandering.
>By then bringing up non-gerrymandering issues.

Just stop posting. If you wanted to talk about gerrymandering you wouldn't have ended your post the way you did.

Yeah OP was about prop2 to which I said that I'm voting solely for the benefit of Republicans, and you started trying to tell me I'm voting against my interests. So then I had to explain why the Democrats are against my interests, but you continued on your attack.
I don't agree fully with either side, but from where I stand the Republicans are the better choice until there comes a time an alternative is actually viable.

This is a thread about voting Yes on Proposal 2 and ending political control over districting

He asked me, should I refuse to comment?
And look at what they are doing to states like Kansas and Wisconsin, they fuck their economies once they have taken over the legislature
This goes hand in hand, its all part of one big plan
And it is backed by the Koch Brothers
The state legislatures, secretary of states, attorney generals, governors are Koch funded and their network of fronts like Americans for Prosperity campaign for them and they attend their seminars
ALEC writes the legislation, Cato, Heritage, and the others provide the intellectual basis for it

>it is in my interests that the state be gerrymandered

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Does it mean the state stays red?
Why is that a hard concept for you to grasp

Once they're in power and gerrymandering and disenfranchising its lolbertarian demands getting rammed down the throats of everyone

>I want the state to stay red and if that means engaging in fraud and preventing people from having their vote heard then so be it
When you're low on cash do you just rob someone too?
Feeling hungry, shoplift a supermarket?

>This is a thread about voting Yes on Proposal 2 and ending political control over districting
This is a thread about one very out of place shill and dirty Democrat tricks.

>shill
Would a shill write this denouncing the party you illiterate swine?
>it is a dirty Democrat trick for no political party to control districting
Do you think before you say these things?

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>Would a shill write this
a giant block of reddit-spaced text? didn't read. You don't know how to be persuasive.

well you lost me with this line of bullshit.
I was willing to see what your thoughts where on 2 but you've jumped overboard with retardation.

>a) try to fix it
democrats didn't think it needed fixing until they started losing michigan.

>>The absolute state of Michigan civics education, everyone.
seems like you aren't aware that MI has had voter ID for several years.

>This is a thread about voting Yes on Proposal 2 and ending political control over districting
why didn't democrats do this when they could have for the last 60 years? Now that they are fucked they want the rules changed. Eat a dick.

>spacing out your replies and greentext is reddit
moran
>didn't read.
This is you, blocked and reported.

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The retard is the one claiming trump supporters are communist

>its all just a game and I can gerrymander because reasons
if what you are saying is true then the Republicans should have called for an independent commission
instead of this 5 year old school yard logic and revenge fantasies and serving elite interests and disenfranchising people which shows this argument is just a disingenuous put on

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>muh revenges

>my political discourse consists entirely of revenge against the democratic party because of media imagery
>and I will have my revenge by supporting the very elite interests that are hurting me

You know who you are Jow Forums?
You're George Costanza.

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