Would like legit opinions. >Be politically active >After years of studying and understanding political thought it made me realize individualism is the only way to go to achieve highest quality of life for all. >Go on Jow Forums to share thoughts >HURR NAZI HURR YUR PROLLY JUU >wtf. >See all the nazi pandering and how people unironically want to see a totalitarian state and have been led to believe clear historical evidence as false. >Look at the left and they want a totalitarian state. They aren't even interested in educated debate. They want to be in their echo chamber as well like the NPCs they are. >Through the countless reading I've come to the conclusion that totalitarianism is evil >HURR BUT NAZI YUR JUU
Is everyone on here a fucking child? Does nobody regard ethics as a reality? Morality a reality? Is anyone legitimately fascinated with politics or is everyone just on this retard train of totalitarian collectivism? If you all follow a totalitarian premise, aren't you the NPC? You do understand to have a valid society you can't go around killing people because you don't like their race right?
> individualism is the only way to go to achieve highest quality of life for all. You are using a collectivist metric, because collectivism is the natural way of things. Nature is morality. That which reproduces most effectively is moral. Western society as it exists today is immoral. Individualism that results in the loss of genetic offspring is immoral. Literally enslaving and brainwashing every last co-ethnic to reproduce en masse and flood the world with aryan soldier/farmer families is highly moral in comparison.
Daniel Cruz
It's not even about Trump. It's about complete imbeciles with an echo chamber of thought. We are just as guilty as the left for making the echo chamber a reality. It's retarded. From both sides. And both are authoritarian. Great. What wonderful choices.
Benjamin Young
Hahahah... no.
Jonathan Diaz
BTFO
Josiah Lewis
You're making a lot of presumptions about individualism that either make no sense or you are taking 3-4 steps to reach to the conclusion. >You're using a collectivist metric So... I'm using a collectivist metric believing in individualism? Did you read what you wrote?
>collectivism is the natural way of things It is if you can't think and you don't believe in economics.
>Nature is morality. What I feel like you're like some tin hat wearing guy. What the heck do you mean by this?
>That which reproduces most effectively is moral. Where do you get the idea if you produce more children that makes you moral? If that were the case then all the third world countries with really high birth rates must be ultimately moral. What the fuck are you talking about?
>Western society as it exists today is immoral In what context? Totalitarianism and forcing others to do things they don't want to is immoral.
> Literally enslaving and brainwashing every last co-ethnic to reproduce en masse and flood the world with aryan soldier/farmer families is highly moral in comparison. Read some fucking history books Jesus Christ it's so retarded it hurts.
It's just retarded. The whole thing is completely idiotic.
This is a realization I've had for a while now. After joining a discord and listening to a bunch of fucking dumb ass kids talk about their totalitarian agenda jerking each other off to their stupid ass ideas, made me realize how fucking retarded it all is.
Rather than being interested in discussing real politics or having an actual opinion with genuine thoughts people just blast out with some stupid diatribe with no evidence at all or even minor attempts at reading.
It just comes off as childish and misunderstanding reality.
Benjamin Morris
>opinions that i don't like aren't real politics
Cooper Nelson
>quality of life for all isn't a collectivist metric
Robert Clark
The nazi's are mostly shills pushing the nazi meme so that this site never gets taken seriously. They used to be real, but the whole thing was co-opted. Facism is a leftist idealogy, its garbage. The only thing Hitler got right was going after the kikes.
William Watson
Here's the problem. I don't mind differing opinions. Even totalitarian opinions. When you question about how they derived to the conclusions they spout diatribe with literally zero backing. When you show them evidence contrary to their diatribe they spout: "Hm must be the jew conspiracy." and that's pretty much it. No matter how much paper work, no matter how you show endless proof, it is all a Jew conspiracy. It's just idiotic and has no bearing on reality.
By believing in an individualist mentality it effectively ends up improving quality of life through all. Provided that there is a rational selfishness.
>going after the kikes See you're doing it again. It's completely unfounded idiocy.
Hudson Garcia
>The nazi's are mostly shills pushing the nazi meme >The only thing Hitler got right was going after the kikes. This is satire right
Josiah King
Nearly all of Jow Forums has gone through the libertarianism phase of individualism, only to realize that most of society is too fucking dumb for it to actually work.
I'm supposed to believe you've spent years studying political thought and can't understand the statement "nature is morality"?
Brandon Robinson
No. You regard that individualism can't work because people are just too fucking stupid. Meanwhile everyone in here is like sub 18 years old and somehow they understand the way of the world? They barely have escaped dependence on their mothers and most are still living at home. They didn't spend time reading. How could they have read something? I think of myself at 20 years old and politically I was retarded. They completely disregard ethics and what it means to obtain an actual working civilization requires ethics ultimately for anything to work.
John Walker
The backbone of libertarianism is individual freedom
Rake yourself, you retarded fuck.
Jayden Peterson
I'm acting in confusion because it makes no fucking sense. Nature is 100% not morality because nature tells you to kill, take, steal and murder for your personal gain in order to survive. A society is far beyond such carnal notions.
Levi Hughes
>doesn't understand the nuance of Jewish power Lurk moar fag
Brayden Williams
How can you claim that a society need ethics to function yet also that any system which enforces ethics is the ultimate evil?
William Allen
Not sure that's accurate given humans have lived together in tribes without murdering eachother for hundreds of thousands of years.
Adrian Ramirez
You're targeting an entire demographic on an anonymous board based on pure assumptions that everyone that isn't you is a retarded child who hasn't had time to study.
Stick around in NatSoc threads. Argue your points with an open mind, which is what everyone is here to do, and perhaps you'll come to realize that it's you who aren't well-read.
Jace Thomas
>opinions that i don't like aren't real politics because i don't consider their sources credible and they don't consider my sources credible >quality of life for all isn't a collectivist metric because i'm using it to measure individualism
Liam Allen
You're confused because you think Jow Forums is hierarchical when it's actually anarchist. None of these blokes will survive if their fascist/communist utopia ever actually blossoms, but at least the faggots who benefit from the current system will also get kicked in the teeth. It's the purest spite you will ever encounter, anywhere, by anyone.
>Jow Forums is one person who wouldn't survive a particular style of government
Anthony Perry
I'm real specific that Jow Forums is a plurality.
Jaxson Myers
No. It's retarded. The notion that all the jews got together to take down everyone is nothing short of moronic diatribe spewed out with literally no backing to anything.
A system that forces on how to live one's life when it does not harm anyone in their effort to live ones life is evil. This is what I mean with rational selfishness. You cannot simply go up to someone and take something as you please that was originally there. That is immoral. It is irrational selfishness. A rational selfishness is wanting to better yourself and being proud of that fact.
You're telling me they never murdered eachother? Shut the fuck up dude.
National socialism is pure evil. True and simple. There is no debate on that. When there is a debate to the ethics of national socialism and you want to acknowledge actual historical reality then maybe you wouldn't be a national socialist.
Literally nobody has given me any sources to many claims that have been spewed out in complete ignorance. Take for example: "It wasn't 6,000,000 jews who died, it was 375,000..." Yet when you look at Poland's demographics you find that there was over 3,000,000 Jews and currently in 2018 there's like 8,000. So where did they call go in WW2? No answer. Just idiotic diatribe that this is fake Jew science. LOOK. I GOT CENSUS PROOF OF SS SOLDIERS SHOWING MULTIPLE KILLINGS EXCEEDING 375,000. Clearly jew propaganda.
B'but it has SS officers names who can be found on several other documents. Must be jew science HURRR
Connor Bailey
>the notion that Jews work together as an ethnic group for the benefit of that ethnic group is retarded
William Watson
>Studies political theory >Every man for himself user...
Robert Rodriguez
You’re thinking in extremes. You don’t have to be pro-minimum possible government to be for the idea that being self-reliant and independent is generally good, and falling into a deep political groupthink while disregarding any outside opinions is generally bad.
Leo Green
>Poland has less Jews now than they did in the 1930s. This is definite proof of genocide
Yeah, let's just forget about the creation of Israel with its 8M population, and the Jewish demographic growing in numerous other nations.
It's fucking retarded. 100% retarded. This is what I talk about. It's this moronic collectivist echo chamber of people spouting diatribe with ZERO backing to provide proof to a claim.
Look the Jews own all the corporations and banks!
Yeah... and? So what why aren't there women? Could it be that a Jew is smart and is able to obtain these crazy high positions and maintain it? Should Jews implement a forced inclusion? This is the same bullshit as a damned SJW trying to bring in diversity into the workforce by force.
Kayden Jackson
> legit opinions Want to know how I know you're a giant lying faggot?
Jace Long
It's almost like nature showed us a long time ago that sticking together as a group for the betterment of that group will get you farther than being alone
Brayden Jackson
>jews don't help each other >preventing self-harm is evil >murder proves hierarchy isn't natural >i don't understand national socialism but it's evil >i'm well-read yet don't understand that millions of jews moved to israel in 1948 Who's the retard here
William Bailey
>Is anyone legitimately fascinated with politics Are you fucking serious? I fucking hate politics. I want what's best for me and mine. Politics is a game of control and I'd be much more satisfied if I didn't have to play the fucking game any more. What I want is the removal and extermination of my enemies. Any system will work if the people are good.
>could it be that Jews are smart? If you're here to suck Jewish dick then you might just be in the wrong place. If Jews want to be smart, they have their own state now to try it in. They no longer need to shit up the West. So, even if they're smart, Europeans should own their corporations and banks.
Since you like to hide behind the notion of being well-read, I suggest you read this book.
But by the way that you're debating, with an absolute closed mind to the fact that you might just be wrong, I don't think you will. Shame, because it's a very well written book.
Physically taking property and killing people is 100% evil. It is evil and there is nothing you can say to circumvent this fact. If you genuinely believe this and aren't trolling, then your scoped society would be a world of death and destruction.
Thanks user. There must be someone who isn't completely insane here I am sure.
The same statistics you guys claim about blacks having an average of 83 IQ is the same analytics that noticed Ashkenazi Jews had abnormally high IQs around 114 much higher than most races. Regardless of race, I don't think that IQ == Success. I can imagine complete morons well exceeding their social value and giving something to the community truly great. Andre the Giant for instance isn't too bright but due to his sheer size brought millions into an industry making him highly successful.
I'm in the process of finishing the Gulag Archipelago series. I'm on the third book. I expect to finish the final book in about 2 weeks. I wouldn't mind checking out a book provided it isn't filled propaganda.
We're social mammals whose evolved sociality is a defining feature of our species. Individualism is pure abstract idealistic mental masturbation grounded in Enlightenment humanist nonsense rather than in biological and sociological reality. tl;dr grow the fuck up
Mason Rogers
You are a child, intellectually. Individualism means all individuals count, whereas collectivism will sacrifice individuals for the good of the collective, contrasting with ’good for all’. As usual Jow Forums defends individualism but has somehow gotten it into their heads that individualism is spelled ’collectivism’. Probably because you so desperately want to larp as nazis in order to hang with the cool kids.
Aaron Cox
The irony is you think the ebil nazis should be killed
Why can’t you understand they felt the same way about the jews
Chase Evans
If you do decide to read it, good for you. It's an historical and analytical deep dive into how Jews and Christians have always had conflicting cultural interests.
Even if you might not agree with the conclusions that most Jow Forumsacks draw, you sure as shit will begin to understand where the hatred for Jews comes from.
Jayden Perez
The perpetuation of our racial collective is the primary purpose of human society. The individual can only meaningfully exist within the context of a strong, organized collective which values individuality.
Wyatt Robinson
Do you have any arguments? Asserting individualism is an a priori moral good without even reasoning and calling those who disagree retarded crazy idiots is not an argument.
Jaxson Robinson
Wow. You through so many fancy analytical words to make you sound more intelligent only to spew pure crap.
>Mental masturbation Where have I heard this? There was a socialist who said this famously I'm certain. Forced labor = evil. Death by labor = evil. Improving overall economics by use of murder and theft = evil. Pure and simple. You can say whatever mental masturbation you can spew and it does not deter from this fact.
If you are Nazi you shouldn't be killed. If you kill someone for the sake of your ideology, you should be killed. How about that?
>The individual can only meaningfully exist within the context of a strong, organized collective which values individuality. Holy shit someone who is a totalitarian ACTUALLY said something intelligent. Yes. I understand the need for an authoritarian presence to force freedom. I get that. At the same time, no one person can truly understand market economics and any attempt to circumvent it is a destructive notion that proves to be a huge disadvantage for all.
We still need to fervently believe in an individualist mentality and the more who believe that the more countries like the USA can continue to grow.
Lincoln Nelson
You are a parody. Individualism is normally backed by a state granting and protecting liberties of the individual. Kind of like the constitution, but I guess the founding fathers were a bunch of NPCs because they had not heard of Hitler?
Asher Rogers
Senpai please see the immorality of playing judge of life for those you don’t like and pretending like someone you do like has no right to be judged
Jonathan Watson
No... National socialism is leftist, fascism is leftist, it was created by leftists, giovanni gentile who ghost wrote mussollini's portion and wrote the other half of the book on fascism was a socialist. Their is no extreme right and extreme left. There are people with a moral code (the right), and people who have a moral compass (the left).
Caleb Cook
I have many valid arguments to prove individualism is the way to go morally and for overall quality of life. >Collective government allows monopolies to exist by allowing companies to buy out government sanctions forcing competition out of the market. This has been seen with Rockefeller, Banana Republics, and nearly all abscesses of current monopolies throughout the world.
>History itself will prove what collectivism has done. With recesses of the Gulag Archipelagos to the Nazi collectivist mindset. Authoritarian collectivists from Mao killed more people than both of the previously mentioned combined. Truly through the flawed notion people would believe collectivism is the way to go. Regardless if countless proof of history shows it in fact DOES NOT WORK. PERIOD.
To disregard understood history as completely false is just an idiotic notion. It makes no sense.
Dominic Allen
Excuse me i meant to say there is no extreme right, there is a extreme left.
Juan Russell
> any system which enforces ethics is the ultimate evil? Do you think individualism is anarchy? Read a goddam book, will you? It is when the state places restrictions on how far it may go to sacrifice individuals for the good of the collective. How is it possible to frequent a website about the discussion of politics and not know this. It’s time for Jow Forums to take a break from pepe and wojak to up their game.
Daniel Clark
Actually the fact Jews conspire to advance a racial and social agenda is easy to confirm and openly admitted to by Jews. You sure you've done a lot of reading? Read Culture of Critique, You Gentiles, and The Jewish Century.
Zachary Foster
Do you have anything to say, or are you here just to throw shit around? Just a hint: If you want a discussion, don't start with "are you all fucking retards!??!" Maybe start by making your point and leave your asspain in reddit.
Cooper Ramirez
I've been spending about an hour here posting a ton of stuff to prove my point.
Jose Wilson
>muh good and evil Read some Nietzsche, particularly Beyond Good and Evil. You have the ethics of a fucking child.
Carson Miller
Do it on the OP next time. And, like I said, leave your insults on reddit, if you want people to not just call you a faggot.
Isaac Bennett
>I can justify killing of people with these books.
No. You can't. The instance of where killing could even remotely be considered if someone was committed to killing many others. For the betterment of society would you decide to make a rash move or allow the government the power to commit this highly serious act.
Jaxson Perez
>My fantasy world would be great, and it'd work, if it wasn't for that one significant variable; human nature
How are you supposed to beat the natural collectivism instilled within humans out of them? Do what Mao did?
History tells us that we always revert to collectivism. To disregard that as false is just an idiotic notion. It makes no sense.
Isaiah Gutierrez
You’re not the guy I replied to, which explain why the quality made such a leap up. Yes, you have it exactly right (and so do I - we agree) when you say individualism can only exist in the context of a collective that protects it. That’s a bingo. So we’re all for having a collective, the question is to what degree it should protect the rights of individuals. Being an individualist, my opinion is ’a great degree’, but I’m happy to discuss that with intelligent individuals like you eho may disagree. Less happy to discuss with morons who got their political education from a cartoon frog and think they know everything.
Thomas Bennett
>100% evil. Based on what morality? A pig might call you evil for eating it. In truth, there is only one morality in nature: the survival of your genes, or rather, the survival of you, but you are your genes. Our bodies are what our genes built to propagate themselves. That is all what life is about, replication and survival. Any other morality is at best a derivation of this big one, and at worst merely arbitrary and childish.
Juan Bennett
>The notion that all the jews got together to take down everyone is nothing short of moronic diatribe spewed out with literally no backing to anything. The Jewish religion teaches Jews they are God's chosen people and that all other people are not. Therefore, the Jew is better than a non-Jew. It's built into the religion. >Take for example: "It wasn't 6,000,000 jews who died, it was 375,000..." pic related is the plaque at Aushwitz. The top part is used in the 6m calculation. After the plaque was changed, the 6m number stayed the same.
>The notion that all the jews got together to take down everyone is nothing short of moronic diatribe spewed out with literally no backing to anything. That's what you do, when you are a cohesive group. You fight for your team. If you truly want to find a retarded notion, have a talk with leftists about how whitey is purposefully keeping Africa down through oppression, assassinations and destabilization. That grand conspiracy motivated by racism is their explanation as to why Africa is the way it is.
Ryan Hall
We attempted an individualist mentality in the USA. Because of this, we were able to reap monumental benefits of minimal government and open markets. One of the main things that stopped this was not slavery but when we began collectivizing our government into departments. The government had very clear separations intended to force there to be no king at any point. Now with all the departments that exist in the US government the collectivist mindset is back.
It took 300 years to do this. Fuck you if you think it isn't worth fighting for. If morons will collectivize again, we must fight against it at every moment. We must stand up and dismantle the collectivization by peaceful political demand.
>That plaque is in reference to Auchwitz alone. Exactly. It was changed over the decades to represent the real numbers killed at Auschwitz, yet the total number of Jews killed in the Holohoax was never updated to reflect this change.
Matthew Mitchell
Individualism... (By it’s very nature and definition) IS. NOT. SCALABLE!
Aiden Flores
>We must stand up and dismantle the collectivization by peaceful political demand. Your plan is to tell people "please don't find strength through unity, be alone and weak instead". Good luck.
Noah Sanders
> genes are morality Why not gravity? You obviously figure you can just take whatever happens and slap the label ’moral’ on it simply by its virtue of having happened. Many people, me included, would consider that a rather brainlet position.
David Foster
>We must stand up and dismantle the collectivization by peaceful political demand.
I revert back to the important variable; human nature. That isn't happening without a lot of dead bodies. And that's when your entire argument of morality falls apart.
Jayden Peterson
My god it's Powder.
Isaac Richardson
> That grand conspiracy motivated by racism is their explanation That is of course not what anyone is saying. The left claims that the west keeps Africa oppressed for capitalist reasons. It is not really true anymore imo, but what you are doing is fighting strawmen.
Aaron Myers
here is another oddity for you. I pulled this image from the national holocaust museum website. Remeber how the history books say that when the trains got to Auschwitz, all the elderly, the children and most of the women went straight to the gas chambers? Only able bodied men and a few women were kept as slave laborers?
Why then does this map show barracks for single jewish men, single jewish women, and largest area being for jewish families if they all went to the gas chambers? It's almost like the history books aren't accurate in their description of what happened.
Had you understood my point, you'd understand that the only real morality is indeed based on physics. Survival is necessitated by evolution, and evolution is merely the progress of the universe according to physical laws. Gravity is indeed not that different from the survival of your genes from that perspective. >would consider that a rather brainlet position. That's only because you're not smart enough to see through the indoctrination you've been subjected to. My logic is sound, your argument is not.
David Ward
individuals get their shit stomped by collectives
Bentley Lee
The current numbers are based on multiple census that were taken by SS and other German officials. No one document showed all of what had happened. Regardless of where you go however, the term 6,000,000 seems to come across and with the greater number being 17,000,000 victims which would include non-jews as well. The book that makes these claims is through the historian book: The Columbia Guide to the Holocaust written by Donald Niewyk & Francis Nicosia. The documentation was provided from several sources to come to the final number.
The book was published in 2003 providing the most updated numbers. The author is a historian who studies at Southern Methodist University and the author of 4 books. Nicosia is a professor of history at Saint Michael's college and is the author/editor of several books on the holocause and the Third Reich.
>that the west keeps Africa oppressed for capitalist reasons That is tenfold more retarded, since Africa is definitely not profitabe for the west. We'd be better of for never having discovered it at all.
Caleb Long
> not scale Why do you think that? Guess you must hate the constitution then?
James Morris
>That plaque is in reference to Auchwitz alone.
I don't think you understood. The death numbers in individual camps have been lowered significantly throughout time, but the total amount of dead Jews has remained constant.
Also, please see this picture Isn't that an amazing coincidence? How every single camp that the US inspected turned out just to be ordinary internment camps, while every single camp the Soviets inspected turned out to be a death camp?
Liam Jones
1 = individual 2 != not individual Ergo individualism is not scalable.
Connor Wood
So based off this one picture you now fully understand the inner workings of Auchwitz? Forget about the untold amounts of human ash found and constant rotation of trains and rampant deaths. Seriously dude?
Jose Wood
>untold amounts of human ash found Only that never happened.
Caleb Williams
Based OP challenging us to think more critically. Don't agree with all of your (((opinions))) though, senpai.
Daniel Martinez
>the untold amounts of human ash found I'd like to see a citation for this. Furthermore, ash would hardly tell the cause of death. Maybe people in concentration camps died only because the Allies blew their infrastructure to hell, so people died of hunger and disease.
Noah Foster
No my dear finbro, the plan is to find strength in the unity of the collective without letting the majority oppress individuals due to legal protections for each individual. Seeing as Jow Forums is full of nincompoops who blab about how the US is a republic to avoid the ’tyranny of democracy/majority rule’ you’d think a few more posters would get this absolutely fundamental point.
Jacob Thompson
>No my dear finbro, the plan is to find strength in the unity of the collective without letting the majority oppress individuals due to legal protections for each individual. I.e., constitutional collectivism. You're hardly making an argument against collectivism here.
Connor Cruz
I'm still waiting for someone to make an argument that requires me to think. I've seen and addressed all of these fifty times before. Except the insults, of course, those I've seen thousands of times.
Ian Wright
It really never struck you as odd that all the death camps were in Poland and were all liberated by the Soviets? Stalin used the holocaust and horros the Poles had seen to argue for a strong communist gov't in Poland. We in the west were only given access to the camps weeks after the war ended and so called gas chambers had been demolished. We took Stalin at his word as to what happened.
Austin Campbell
They physically burned bodies.... they physically burned the bodies. This was found. They shaved their heads to reduce the smell and use the hair as upolstery for cars. This was found CONFIRMED. Most of the bodies were confirmed burned. Where are the bodies? Burned. There have been many accounts of living people in the 90's and 2000s who talked about the rains of ash near the concentration camps. For gods sakes there is fucking photos user. Just fucking look at it! During the trials they explained how they managed to dispose of so many bodies so efficiently!
I did understand your point, that’s how I was able to refine it in a way you agreed was compatible with your initial claim. But you are not forwarding any ’logic’. Logic is a system of premises and conclusions, you have only stated your premises and pretended they are conclusions. I can do the same: morality is not the same as causality. Look, how do you counter that logic?
