At least everyone forgot about the mail bomber right guys?

Anyone got other pictures of this guy?

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Jow Forums is over, kiss it goodbye. Just wait until they look at this guy’s browser history.

That's true, but Trump is wildly and unusually popular in a way that they're not going to want to visibly betray. And it's hard to imagine what might need to happen to get Trump to step down -- that's just not in his character. And no doubt they know that that their best chance of skating on their various crimes is to play ball with Trump.

So I don't think the situation is entirely comparable, although that doesn't mean there won't be a back stabbing down the road should the opportunity arise.

what bomber? I have completely forgotten about the migrant horde. What SCJ smear campain do you mean? Who said anything about a desert school shooter camp? There is no october surprise goys!

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Yes, Trump support is a quite unusual cultish phenomena but let's be realists — vast majority of that base could be swayed by the Fox News. Social media plays a major role but it could be easily made distrusted by the Russian bot narrative and its just three liberal-leaning companies anyway — Google, Facebook, and Twitter. That's not too hard to actually make them push a unifying narrative against Trump.
If Fox News gets an offer they can't refuse from the Republican establishment, then they'll change their narrative against Trump in an instant too.

Do you really think Trump has a chance to do anything in that case?

Republicans in the Senate will just say that they were persuaded by the findings in the Mueller's report to vote for the impeachment if Trump won't resign himself.

One of the unique things about the Trump campaign has been that he circumvents the MSM. Don't forget that Fox was strongly anti-Trump for a long time during the elections. Fox alone doesn't have the power that it normally would, and I think they'd have some trouble getting all of their personalities to turn on a dime.

I don't think it would be that easy at all. There's undoubtedly a good portion of Trump's support that could be convinced to walk away in disgust, but it'd wind up being something of a sampson option for the party.

Every single one of those personalities have either some kind of skeletons in the closet, some kind of economical interest, or both.
It won't be that hard to make them flip.

And Trump won't be able to do anything when he will be out of power and possibly fighting an uphill legal battle against various indictments. Some parts of his base might consider him a martyr but if Republicans are against him he won't be able to do anything.

>"oh shit, we shouldve added a white nationalist narrative to the bomber. fuck it's too late now. alright, lets just do another mass shooter narrative"

Again, I think you're overestimating the role that Fox has here. This isn't 2008 or something. And don't forget that this was in part an internal regime change operation. You're really asking for a lot more to happen than just flipping some personalities and politicians for a quick convenient way to dump Trump.

The narrative was starting to fall apart, hence they activated this guy. Just like with Kavanaugh. Just like with the migrant caravan.

I wonder what comes next when this one also fails to stick?

I get the feeling the left kind of sucks at making false flags

Yes yes perfect. People were figuring out how asinine it was. Now that we have this, into the memory hole it goes.

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>never to be mentioned again lol

I think that if for whatever reason the bureaucracy/deep state/establishment/elite or whatever else it might be appropriate to call the vast political class in the country decides that something is bad for the country and it is necessary to play truly dirty to put it to rest as soon as possible then there is no chance in hell that phenomena could survive.
The bureaucracy is still playing by the rules and waiting for Trump to accumulate mishaps and mistakes to actually make his ousting look legitimate later.

>At least everyone forgot about the mail bomber right guys?
As intended

Things are moving so fast and so far but in the end none of this matters. A bit of a sour taste to think that people dying can be buried so quickly and easily in peoples memory holes.

Well of course they're lying carefully in wait, but they're going to have to pretty much pull a rabbit out of a hat to get things to go down as has thusfar been hoped. It's not anywhere near as simple and easy as the left is trying to get people to believe. That only works on a portion of the population that's stuck in that timeline.

Almost everyone has happily believed the Iraq's WMDs rabbit out of a hat for example.
I just don't see why the public and politicians won't believe the Russian narrative if it is presented as a legitimate threat to the US and pushed by both right-wing and left-wing influential persons.

You can't do the same trick twice.
Especially since War with Russia will mean a general draft so anyone supporting it will have to fight not just sit home on TV wearing a "Support the Troops" hat.

Because communications, information, and education is not the same now as it was then. This is one of the biggest mistakes the establishment continually makes is thinking that they can play the game the same way they've been playing it for decades. They don't understand how the rise of the internet has fundamentally changed things.

The Russia narrative already wasn't sticking a year ago. One afternoon, I put on NPR and it was the host and high-ups from a couple of major establishment newspapers brainstorming on whether they could get the Russia narrative to stick or whether it was time to abandon it because not enough people were buying it.

This is a very different environment compared to 9/11, even if it might seem to be the same if you're not from the US.

And not only that, but even democrat-leaning people don't want war with Russia. That was one of the issues where it was always trivially easy to be in agreement, even if they bought in to the idea that Putin is an evil genius and Russia is going to start invading and taking over neighboring countries again.

In fact they don't want WWIII.

The real winner is saudi arabia. That "journalist" they killed is long memory holed at this point.

A new cold war doesn't require that. It could be done with a bunch of covert operations and powerful rhetoric similar to the Reagan period. Russia is also much weaker than the Soviet Union, so the US will have a win to celebrate much faster.

I don't think human nature has changed fundamentally. There were always fringe conspiracy theories and stuff.
The establishment doesn't need to make everyone to believe something. It needs to make sure that people with influence and power believe something and a majority of population believes a narrative, while conspiracy theories are for powerless freaks. That's not hard even in the age of the Internet.

No one is talking about a hot war with Russia directly. It's entirely possible to make a boogeyman out of Russia, while not engaging in a hot conflict.
The US has vast resources for that.

>A new cold war doesn't require that.
It won't be cold, if Putin doesn't fight the US he will lose power to someone that will. Russia is on it's breaking point and if you push it past that you will get nukes flying.

Human nature doesn't change, but public disposition and control of information does. Iraq wouldn't have been possible without 9/11; the lack of appetite for war at that time was one of the principle open questions posed at the time, such as in Zbigniew Brzezniski's book, "The Grand Chessboard" and the PNAC crowd answered that by taking power and orchestrating an unheard-of domestic terror attack.

Somebody's going to have to do something exceedingly clever to repeat that, but then what would that motivate the US to actually do? Depose Trump? Go to war? It's not impossible, but it's simply not the same kind of situation.

Russia maybe could come back later if they can recover from the Syria and Ukraine narratives, both of which are in the process of being hamstrung. I think the much bigger danger is financial collapse, and that's a dangerous game because you have to take down the rest of the world unless you want to give up the US's position as the unipolar superpower, and that's tough to do with China getting whacked, the EU a basket case, and the potential for some inconvenient axis taking advantage of the situation. That's a serious Sampson Option to have to use.

Possibly start some mess with Iran? Maybe. But drumming on the Muh Russia narrative is not going to result in removing Trump from office absent some truly wild turns of events.

Why? If the much more powerful and ideologically indoctrinated Soviet Union has decided to disintegrate under pressure rather than fight then why do you think Russia will be any different?
Russia is indeed on the breaking point and pushing it towards collapse to take advantage of the situation might be a rather good geopolitical scenario both for the domestic consumption and as a powerful ally against China.
Don't forget that Russia is officially a liberal democracy, even though it's not one in practice.

It can't be that hard to orchestrate a coup there by buying a bunch of politicians and officials and shaking situation by sanctions and rhetoric.

>why don't the lines on his face match up?
Because those lines trace the contours of two different muscles you douchebag!

I'm sorry about douchebag... I just got low blood sugar.

>Human nature doesn't change
It actually does, but very slowly and it's not under conscious control.

>If the much more powerful and ideologically indoctrinated Soviet Union has decided to disintegrate under pressure rather than fight then why do you think Russia will be any different?
Because you are no longer dealing with a Tyranical Empire but a Nation state defending it's borders. It is not Putin who wants to nuke the US if the US push their luck but the Russian people. Putin's biggest opponent is someone more nationalist and further to the right.
"Geopolitical experts", glow in the dark fags and the Military Industrial complex need to get their head out of their ass and realize that people are no longer divided in ideological groups and that the cold war can't repeat it's self and you will never get the Reagan era reckless spending again.

>It can't be that hard to orchestrate a coup there by buying a bunch of politicians and officials and shaking situation by sanctions and rhetoric.
You can't just coup a people into submission. If their will is strong enough they will fight back. Also that's assuming the loyalist KGB leftovers in the west will not do Glow in the Dark shit to counter it. And it's also assuming that the FSB can't fight back on their own soil.

If one looks into history they will realize that there is an East and West major conflict each generational cycle, and we had the one for this cycle 4 decades ago. The next one will happen 5 decades later not now.

>tfw too old to draft so war just means I get laid more often and maybe get a raise.

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What about those red lights Dan Coats was talking about?
IIRC, there was a narrative about cyber attacks on the electrical infrastructure by the Russian state. Won't it be possible for it to resurface later as either a false flag or true provoked attack?
Trump has not done enough to counter the Russian aggression and Russia brought down the US grid, yada-yada.
It will no doubt galvanize the public, it will help destroy Trump, etc.

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Who?

I think there's ample room to convince people that Russia's hacking more stuff. But I don't think that's going to get many people to switch sides. Not without some pretty solid evidence, and so far they haven't been able to come up with that.

Remember the other week when allegedly some Russian spies got caught in Europe with a car full of super secret squirrel spy equipment and the media made a big fuss over it but then handed them back to Russia and their narrative was basically
>look at how many details we're giving the public
>therefore it must be true!

And then it just completely disappeared because it was nonsensical and failed to motivate any narrative and there was no actual proof, and Russia correctly played that by letting the matter drop so that it couldn't be escalated. That's the best they could come up with? Really? Why don't they try to """poison""" some more people or knock off what was probably some spook posing as a WP reporter in Saudi Arabia? People don't care about that or know what to make of it. They just hear the media rattle on about OH NO RUSSIA'S AT IT AGAIN and then forget about it two days later because now we're supposed to believe that 7000 people are walking 1000 miles to the border or some weirdo sent a bunch of fake bombs that didn't explode to the most ridiculous targets.

Russia is not a homogeneous nation state. Russian border is no different from the Soviet border.
And you demonize Russian people too much. They had rather favorable view of the US even after the collapse of the Soviet Union. Propaganda after the war in Ukraine might be strong but it's doubtful that it is enough to make Russians completely suicidal.
>Putin's biggest opponent is someone more nationalist and further to the right.
Who is that? Media kinda pushes Navalny as his opponent. He is a tad racist towards Muslims but he is for the cooperation with the West.

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That stuff like a bunch of spies with equipment will probably help to make a case to the public later.
Pulling something completely out of the blue will be much less persuasive than establishing a pattern of behavior when something major comes out down the road.

>Russia is not a homogeneous nation state.
It's very close to that even if you want to disagree with my initial points.
>Russian border is no different from the Soviet border.
What are you gonna sprout magical non Russian Siberians that want independence?
Everything that wanted to already broke off from Russia, minus the Chechens which nobody cares about.
>And you demonize Russian people too much.
I didn't know claiming a people are willing to fight for themselves is demonetization. By that metric the Jews are pure evil.
>but it's doubtful that it is enough to make Russians completely suicidal.
Russians are by their very nature suicidal.

I don't think the public has much of a memory of that. It was so convoluted and confusing in the way it was presented. The press conference was a total clusterfuck for anybody who watched it (which was nobody).

Sure, it could be referenced in the future as part of a constellation of proof, but it's really just lost in the background noise of Russia this, Russia that, Russia's in the closet, Russia's under the bed, Russia did some thing or other again somewhere in the middle east, Russia said something untoward about children, etc. etc.

I don't understand how the Media thinks the current Russia did everything narrative will work.
We have had a similar narrative here for a decade, but much more tame and sensible and people are tired of it anyway. This is just boy cried wolf times a million.

The year I finally get my Hitler costume perfect for Halloween and this happens.

Are you gonna pussy out faggot?

who?

To some extent it probably does keep some segment of the population on the reservation in terms of being ready to believe that Russia's up to its nogoodnik tricks again if the right kind of even takes place. I don't think much more than that.

What was effective was the Alinsky style demonization of Putin as a person. There definitely are a lot of people who believe he's a truly evil man who murders children and bombs hospitals.

>bombs hospitals.
Don't forget the Bakeries.

Nobody here gets all that mad about bread. It's plentiful.

I just don't understand about what kind of borders you are talking about.
I doubt it's in the US interest to completely disintegrate Russia but it's in the US interest to have Russia as a dependable ally against China. That's why the US could do some stuff to force Putin out of office and foster a friendlier regime while at the same time solving some domestic issues by galvanizing the public against Putin's Russia and winning a struggle against it.
Chechens won't like that probably, so they'll have to go.

What exactly Russian people will fight against? A domestic color revolution? They'll fucking want it themselves after a major economic collapse under international pressure. The only thing the US will have to do is make sure that the new regime will be friendly and stable.

And I'm not just being silly btw. If you consider a place like Egypt where the government's bread subsidies are critical to the survival and stability of the country, and where people are legit willing to go out in the streets and riot because they're mad enough about the government and the price of bread, that's one thing. But here in the US people have no grasp of that mindset because bread here is cheap and plentiful, so they can't relate to the role of bakeries in the same way, and wouldn't be motivated to get upset about it in the same way that they would about hospitals and children.

>I just don't understand about what kind of borders you are talking about.
You can't Reverse Crimea Russia.
>That's why the US could do some stuff to force Putin out of office and foster a friendlier regime
Putin is the best bet the US has at friendly relations if they try and depose him all the US will get is nuked, either by rouge elements or a pissed of populous. You can't fix a dam by adding more water.

>A domestic color revolution?
Color revolutions don't always work. In fact I would garner that with the current level of counter culture they have become impossible unless all security systems in a country are complicit.

>They'll fucking want it themselves after a major economic collapse under international pressure.
Are you retarded?
If someone robs you won't suck their dick if the cop fails to catch them.
If the West colapses Russia it is guaranteed that Russia will fight back, the best case scenario is that they become a direct Chinese puppet, otherwise nukes will fly.

Do you think the Russian people are oblivious to the fact that Western Sanctions have the purpose of breaking down their country?

Oh, nobody actually cares about Crimea enough. Its recognition might be a nice bargaining chip for long-term political concessions though.
Is Putin fucking immortal? If he is not then his personalistic dictatorship is not stable. Being friendly with him will backfire vigorously similar to how being friendly with Shah of Iran backfired.
The US need an ally which will not depend on one fucking person. That's insane and it always backfired when population turned against the dictator.

Color revolutions work if enough pressure is applied both overtly and covertly.

Russian people are oblivious to how much wealth Putin and his cronies actually have. Make that public and their wrath will turn against him.

The problem with Putin is that you won't be able to make him behave and do what's necessary for the US interest.
Even if the US invests in Russia massively to counter-balance China, he will just steal half of that with his cronies.
Then what's the point?

That's silly, though. Putin and his government are very effective for geopolitical stability and are likely to be receptive to beginning to realign relationships with US in the direction of testing out working toward mutual benefit of the sort that Putin has repeatedly proposed in public speeches. It's enough to work on detante and beginning to settle the stupid bullshit the Trotskyites have been trying to stir up.

Then unless everything goes crazy, hopefully Putin is smart enough that he'll have organized somebody waiting in the wings to take his place next election in a peaceful transition of power (not particularly common thusfar in Russia's history!) and then Russia will have a new public PR face and whatever next phase of global order can proceed with all of the baggage attached to Putin removed from the scene.

There's no need to destabilize Russia with a color revolution and force some kind of mess of regime change. If everybody plays their cards right.

>The problem with Putin is that you won't be able to make him behave and do what's necessary for the US interest.
Yes you can.
All the US needs to do is give him some scraps. Break up Ukraine and let Putin have most of the industrial part, stop fucking about with Syria and stop trying to go to war with Iran.
The US is not benefiting from this bullcrap with Russia, US's dependents like Israel and the EU benefit from it.
>he will just steal half of that with his cronies.
Welcome to politics. This is how the shit has worked for centuries.

>That's insane and it always backfired when population turned against the dictator.
The problem is not the dicator but the people. The Russian people don't like America, not putin.

>Color revolutions work if enough pressure is applied both overtly and covertly.
Nope they only work when security elements and the population are compliant.
Do you think the 1989 revolutions would have went so smoothly if one nation's army or police stepped in and said enough was enough?

>Then unless everything goes crazy, hopefully Putin is smart enough that he'll have organized somebody waiting in the wings to take his place next election in a peaceful transition of power
Did that worked with Yeltsin? Nope. Putin was exactly that in the beginning — a new designated PR face and that backfired spectacularly as we can see.
Don't forget that absolute power corrupts absolutely. That's why it is extremely dangerous to have that shit with designated successors. You can't predict what the next person will do and there is no checks and balances.

>Yeltsin groomed Putin
That retard couldn't groom himself with a mirror and a razor.
Putin was just a smart little boy from the KGB that took over.

the who?

>Break up Ukraine and let Putin have most of the industrial part
That's called appeasement. It doesn't work because the dictators are greedy, never stop, and will demand more and even MORE. We had that story in 30s with another dictator in Europe. How did it turn out? Did he stop demanding MORE after the Sudetenland and Austria? Spoiler: he did not.
>Welcome to politics.
And how exactly that will help anyone? The US needs to have another dependable ally like Japan or Germany out of Russia, not another China that will back backstab the US eventually. The alliance with China was realpolitik against the Soviet Union. How is that working out now?

>The Russian people don't like America
That's propaganda. Russian people like the US and Europe kind more than they like China, Iran, Turkey, or Syria if you actually ask them and look at the polls.
The problem is the dictator and his anti-american propaganda.

>Nope they only work when security elements and the population are compliant.
Population will be complicit if it will be in as bad economic hardships as they were in 1989.
Security forces should be bribed covertly as well as there should be pressure on oligarchs through personal sanctions and asset freezes.

Took over? He was put in power by Yeltsin first as the primer minister and then as successor.
I don't know what kind of grooming he received but he was put in power by Yeltsin.

David Hogg is so old he exists outside of time and beyond our universe

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>That's called appeasement. It doesn't work because the dictators are greedy, never stop, and will demand more and even MORE.
Putin is no big bad dicator. All he really wants is for shit to not blow up in his face and the ability to convince the Russian people that he either won the Donetsk conflict or that it was a just conflict to be fought.
>We had that story in 30s with another dictator in Europe
You really wana bring to poor vegeterian painter into this?
>dependable ally like Japan or Germany
>Dependable
>Germany
M8 It's quite clear that you don't now much about geopolitics if you call Germany dependable.
>The alliance with China was realpolitik against the Soviet Union. How is that working now
Well the USSR is dead, why would you expect the alliance to keep going now that the common foe is no longer there?

>Russian people like the US and Europe kind more than they like China, Iran, Turkey, or Syria
No they don't. Your average Russian peasant gets disgusted when witnessing the faggotry of the west. American's and especially Western Eurofags have got this superiority complex stuck in their head and they think that everyone wants to suck on their farts.

>Population will be complicit if it will be in as bad economic hardships as they were in 1989.
No they won't. And there were not that many hardships in 89. Just that the Glow in the Dark NATO got lucky that the Glow in the Dark Warpact got bored.
>Security forces should be bribed covertly as well
We are reaching a point where bribery and even blackmail won't work anymore.
There are a lot of angry young men out there with no families that make excellent Gendarmes and Soldiers. Especially in the east.

And why exactly he started the Donetsk conflict?
If he is not big and bad then he should not have started wars in Georgia, Ukraine, etc.
If he doesn't want for shit to blow up in his face then he shouldn't meddle in something he has no place in.

Relations with Germany are not that bad. Yes, they might and should do more as an ally. But they still support stuff even if they complain from time to time.
>Well the USSR is dead, why would you expect the alliance to keep going now that the common foe is no longer there?
The US doesn't need flimsy alliance with Russia that will blow up later. It needs something more reliable.
>Your average Russian peasant gets disgusted when witnessing the faggotry of the west.
That's wrong. Russians had t.A.T.u. as the most popular band not that long ago. Animosity towards the West is created by Putin.