What should be done about healthcare?

>If the US stopped restricting the number of doctors. health care costs would not be 6x higher than in Europe.
yeah bro the damn mexican is why an operation or chemo costs thousands of dollars

yup

moron

restricting the number of doctors has nothing to do with the "damn mexican"

The US has a requirement called the "residency program". You can not be a doctor without being an intern for 2 years.

So far so good? Here is the rub. The number of residency opening has been capped by law since 1997. The American association of jew doctors (AMA) uses that to make sure doctors become little gods at the expense of everybody else.

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When the bum doesn't want to be a part of our polite society, except only when it suits them, they shouldn't get care exceeding their station.
Stick the bone back in, set them a cast, tell them aftercare and time to remove the cast (which they absolutely won't follow up with) and boot their ass to the curb.
Part of healthcare's problem is the very idea they HAVE to do their absolute best work for everybody that comes in their door, and that keeps wait times, quality of care, and costs artificially inflated.
They should also be allowed to put-off individuals that are known abusers of the system to alternative hospitals and services.
Hobo that won't ever have to pay a cent stumble into your middle-class ER? Send them to the cheapest shithole clinic available, our society should have an equal right not to have to care what happens to the indignant anti-social lazy drunko.

The best thing they could ever do to make insurance and service affordable for everyone else is open the markets to intrastate sales.

What the hell does this have to do with answering how you pay any hospital bill for a penniless homeless person.

Getting doctors and nurses to look after you and give you meds in the hospital is goin to cost money

who pays

>Stick the bone back in, set them a cast, tell them aftercare and time to remove the cast (which they absolutely won't follow up with) and boot their ass to the curb.
This costs about $5000-$10000 in the USA

Why don't have emergency and first aid care free and charge for everything else? Also sorry but it doesn't cost that much to put pins in the leg your system is superinflates the prices.

You know the answer, it is the same in every first world country. your taxes pays for it. Keep reading though.

If the doctor that sees that mexican costs 60k a year instead of 600k, we are talking about very different amount of money.

Not when it's the resident or NP doing the bare minimum for slave wages. A friend just had to get one on her forearm, her covered costs were something like $1000, and that was that new webbing style quick-set cast too.
Hobo-scum shouldn't be distracting the good doctors and material from literally anyone else.

>>uninsured homeless guy goes to ER
>>has broken leg, bone sticking out
>>put back together with pins
>>costs $7000

uhhh, did you forget a zero there?

Most people don't think about healthcare. It's just one of those things that you see deducted from your paystub.

If they ended the practice if Pay Mastering, and paid GP and surgeons that aren't OR veterans reasonable salaries, we could be paying next to nothing on general care and naturally deflate insurance costs.

How do you efficiently and accurately determine supply and demand in socialized healthcare?

I wasn't going to even bother but a pin frame isn't used on that type of compound fracture either, but that's just picking nits.
The highest cost of the whole thing would be in what level of doctor sets the bone, and closes and sutures the open wound/s.

Ol' Knifey Joe should get the very cheapest version of this.

exactly.

Just like with every other industry, if you artificially restrict supply, costs soar.

Most people don't realize that doctors are an artificially restricted resource

Homeless people can walk into any hospital in the USA and get free healthcare since they don't care about their credit rating

>What should be done about healthcare?

single payer healthcare/national health service

Statistics, computer modeling, etc.

Plenty of countries have socialized medicine and aren't falling apart, it can't be that difficult to calculate.

Why can’t most people afford a doctor?
Do you make that little money?
Why doee everything have to be paid for by the state?

But is cracky addiction covered?

Give him a choice:

1) Consent to fix it up, forced labor at minimum wage until cost is recouped

2) Leave it be and take the chance that it will lead to a horrible infection and painful death

American Medicine isn't a market that moves fast enough to react to changes in demand any faster than a governing body.

>Homeless people can walk into any hospital in the USA and get free healthcare since they don't care about their credit rating
Yes but who pays their bill?

Someone must pay

If you had a restaurant where 30% of the people were eating then not paying, The restaurant can do one of 2 things, ask the govt/ins to reimburse them or raise the prices on everyone else

Basically you are for gvt heathcare

>Statistics, computer modeling, etc.
>Plenty of countries have socialized medicine and aren't falling apart, it can't be that difficult to calculate.

this

Specialized practitioners very much are, and their salaries are probably 3/4ths of our hyper-inflated care costs right there. And that is weather or not you will ever need to see one yourself, Pay Mastering was pretty much invented to whack-a-mole money out of EVERYBODY to cover "rock star" doctors' salaries.

>Why can’t most people afford a doctor?
Do you read OP, In op it say man homeless

man homeless make very little moneies : (

people can't afford a doctor because the number of doctors in the US is restricted by law.

There are about 10x less doctors than there should be. It takes six months to see a doctor that will charge six times more than the doctor you can see in your country.

So your computers can predict what healthcare products/services 300 million irrational people need and where those products need to be distributed? This is the same shit that the USSR and all other countries constantly tried to do and failed no matter what they did. You just can beat the efficiently of price/profits to manage supply and demand. Yes, socialized healthcare in other countries is in a constant state of falling victim to the calculation problem. This is why it takes more than 5 months to get an MRI in Canada where I can get it the same day I get referred here.

What you are doing is saying "there is not a problem"

to ignore the real problem of destitute people needing health care

who pays? we are talking about someone who is begging for food need doctors and nurses and a hospital bed, that's not free

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Op is a faggot. Why do liberal controlled universities limit how many University programs there are for medical professions? To the point where they long some states to pass law to mandate artificial scarcity of where training can take place.
If going with a pure market we could increase the number of medical professionals and drive procedural costs down.

Am I making a sound decision of forgoing veterinary school for pa a program instead, which i found out is pretty competitive for a damn masters. Kind of need a career sooner than later and DO school is 6-8yr too long

Do you think anyone will run for office anytime soon in the USA with the goal of stopping the poor from being allowed to se doctors?

Someone must pay, that is correct. Let the people who ate pay up. Not paying is not an option.

You're not talking about supply and demand calculation. You're talking about artificially decreasing demand (by making services too expensive for the majority of people) so that YOUR fat ass doesn't have to wait like everyone else.

How do you plan on artificially decreasing demand?

Hey fag, that has nothing to do with Obama care, but Good try shill.

That and automation. Automation and innovation always brings costs down.

you are missing the point.

If you want to be an engineer, you go to college and become one. Anybody can become an engineer and engineering salaries reflect that.

If you want to be a Doctor it does not work like that. The number of doctors per year is legally regulated by residency program. That means that medical schools can only accept a very limited number of students each year.

As in every industry, if you artificially restrict supply, costs will raise.

I don't.

Infinite medical supplies and personnel don't exist, which means, yes, in a socialized healthcare service you are probably going to have to wait (often VERY long periods) to receive a medical service. But the point is that you WILL receive it regardless of your income level.

So, they pulled a debeers on it, huh?

>Someone must pay, that is correct. Let the people who ate pay up. Not paying is not an option.
in this analogy everyone "eating" is people with ins.

This is why asprin is $7 a pill in the hospital vs 10cents in a grocery store.

You are paying for those who did not pay, it's really a brilliant idea till you figure out that a 30yo female school teacher should have a $950 per month insurance policy because so many people dont pay

you are effectively taxing any healthy person with a good income to pay for the poor. When you do this at some point it becomes logical for the working middle class to just stop paying for ins and show up to the ER like a nigger

And if you threw them in a debtor's prison, then they are just getting housing, food, and care for fucking free.
The sloppier solution could be found in allowing emergency rooms (where 99% of them seek their care and also overburdening every ER in America) to turf them to clinics or alternate services meant for their kind.
The better solution that nobody wants to stomach is allowing them to refuse service to people who can't give a home mailing adress, insurance coverage, employment or wealth to cover their own care. Someone who can't cover some, or even all, of these metrics can just got find the "free care" they want so bad outside of our system like they do with literally everything else in their worthless lives.

Exactly. Focusing on the factors that make medical treatment expensive is a better approach than making more people pay for others that can't afford it. The fundamental problem is that the costs have been driven too high and in a lot of cases is the result of artificial scarcity.

Sounds like a modest proposal

>can't collect from him ever
If he's got healthy organs, then some of those would cover the cost.
Also the operation could be performed by students.

What if I don't want to live in a group home with peasants and antifa members

I make almost no money and I currently can afford to pay for many things in cash and my health insurance covers big stuff. I'm actually so poor that I'm below the level that is able to receive government subsidies for healthcare in my state. And the USA's healthcare system has been screwed up by progressives for years now. If we went back to free-market healthcare it would be super affordable to everyone like it was in the 1930s.

>Exactly. Focusing on the factors that make medical treatment expensive is a better approach than making more people pay for others that can't afford it. The fundamental problem is that the costs have been driven too high and in a lot of cases is the result of artificial scarcity.
nigger how much do you think an MRI machine costs?

how much do you think radioactive chemo costs?

>hey maybe if we only pay doctors $33k per year and stop sterilizing medical equipment that could work

you are retarded

Should be completely privatized and if you don't make money you don't get healthcare.

once debeers figures out how to pass a law that requires every marriage to use diamonds it will be exactly the same scam

Responsible white people pay via the massive emergency room cost they get.

You have no fucking idea how healthcare works, Obamacare isn't being indigent. If he had Obamacare, he wouldn't pay a dime, his fucking Obamacare would pay for it and he wouldn't be uninsured faggot.

If he was uninsured, he'd be indigent.

Then you should live in an economical and environmentally sustainable tiny house.
Free market healthcare worked for most people, but it didn't work for the poorest, the oldest, or the most chronically ill. That's why insurance companies exist in the first place in healthcare.

*in the healthcare market

>If we went back to free-market healthcare it would be super affordable to everyone like it was in the 1930s.
In the 1930s if you showed up with cancer they would not give you an MRI because there was no such thing, and no chemo because there was no such thing, and no therapy because no such thing, and no drugs to prevent recurrence because..

in the 30s they would give you some pain pills and you would go die, cheap

now they can put you in remission for $100,000 so you can die 10 years later of some other ailment that will cost $50,000.

is everyone fuckign stupid

The LITERAL problem we have is that science has com so far that we can do so much for people.

>in the 1980s telephones had sturdy wires and only cost $20

times change faggot

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>Free market healthcare worked for most people, but it didn't work for the poorest, the oldest, or the most chronically ill. That's why insurance companies exist in the first place in healthcare.
Insurance companies are a market solution to the problem. They worked great until the progressives started getting the government to mess with things in the healthcare market and make cost go up.

can you name some of them instead of a vague "plenty of countries"? as someone born in a country where our healthcare system used to be praised all over the world, i can tell you we're facing a huge crisis because of this, and it's rapidly becoming a worse situation than america in some aspects (which is why wealthy frenchmen fly to american clinics to get treated). other countries of similar size who adopted socialized medicine later don't seem to have an answer for the problems we face either. you can kick the ball down for about 3 generations, but at some point the deficit burden becomes impossible. socialized healthcare is the equivalent of dumping your toxic waste in the lake ; it might help your problem now, but you're fucking over the future

damn progressives! Inventing MRIs Chemo and transplant services!

FUCKING SJWS!!!!

Fucking idiot. Learn the reasons why MRI machines costs so much. It is not due to material. It's almost entirely sure to over specialization and artificial scarcity. MRI manufacturing could and should be mass produced to bring down costs.

One thing a lot of people need to learn is that you are actually legally allowed to contest the prices of materials and time listed in your care, and negotiate rates and payment plans with any medical service center. This one of the medical industry's closest guarded secrets, and is why every hospital in America is required by federal and some state laws to maintain a budget department that is open and reasonably available to the public. People who save themselves so much more money on major medical care if they would bother to do this.

It's easy, just look up what percentage of people are born and then die, and look up the average cost of heathcare in between :D

well then, sorry for the understatement.

>Fucking idiot. Learn the reasons why MRI machines costs so much. It is not due to material. It's almost entirely sure to over specialization and artificial scarcity.
AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

Do you not see that in the 1930s there was no such thing and that's why the cost of the thing was 0?

>fuckhuge MRI in a big hospital with trained staff to work it, weighs 3000lbs

sounds prettty cheap to operate LOL

>Muh things get more expensive as things get more advanced and available to people.
This is a fucking retarded argument. Everything was vastly more expensive back then and all procedures where vastly more complex back then (due to lack of technology).

>Responsible white people pay via the massive emergency room cost they get.
so same as always

Waiting months for medical treatment is not "access" to anything except impenetrable bureaucracy. Know what healthcare access is? When I go to the private clinic, show them my insurance card, and I see a doctor in 10 minutes.

There used to be a lot of places people could get access like this in America. We used to have lodge practices, fraternal orders that would pay a doctor a fixed salary for medical services for members of the lodge. This practice eventually included family members of the order, and then extended it to the entire community that the order's lodge was located in. You had locally funded and sited private practices. Naturally this was a nightmare for the AMA, since it drove down wages for doctors and competed very successfully against their fee-for-service model for hospitals.

Get rid of the AMA and allow lodge practice to return and you'll see healthcare costs plummet. It will never happen as long as the greedy AMA remains in power.

>This is a fucking retarded argument. Everything was vastly more expensive back then and all procedures where vastly more complex back then (due to lack of technology).
doubt chemo was more comlex back then, doubt lung transplants were more expensive and complex back then.

you have no idea what you are talking about

Sjws have invented nothing. No idea where you got that idea.

Free market health insurance would be great for me right about now. Being a healthy man in my 20's, I hate paying 4k a year for health insurance when I don't go to the doctor more than once a year to get treatment that would cost me a few hundred dollars out of pocket. All because I have to buy a health care plan that covers all kinds of shit that I don't need.

>tell the homeless to join rich fraternities if they break their legs

You don't even want to understand what the problem is. This is why you don't fucking understand how anything works or what are good solutions are.

>could be mass produced
By who? Should we put a gun to the head of the mri factory people to produce more than is profitable?

Your argument is essentially that you don't want poor people to receive medical care because it inconveniences your own treatment.

You must be able to see that.

>cracky

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The problem right now is that you are an idiot and think that advanced medicine is not complex nor expensive

So then how do you solve the calculation problem in socialized healthcare since you know so much? How do you solve the one things that every communist nation and every modern nation with socialized industries haven't yet solved? How do the economics of supply and demand work without the system of prices that link the two?

You think you don’t get what you pay for in healthcare?
That homeless dude has zero chance of having a full recovery. He’ll limp for life..
Tell me if Joe Theismann has a limp next time you see him.
Go away commie

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Easy. Let those who propose that we all should pay, cover the bill. Show some compassion, and all that shit.

Why do people who never gave anything of value back to society get other people's labor and money?

Except that lodge care was most widely practiced in poor communities, especially in cities. It was in fact the only way that the majority of poor Americans could even get medical care because the AMA's fee-for-treatment model was too expensive. Cities could have as many as 400 to 500 lodge practices in them, mostly in poor neighborhoods. Because each community had its own lodge there was no strain or crowding on the system.

Seems more like you just hate the idea of people operating in independent communities and doing things without consulting the government.

Aren't you the user who posted about the CT scan being like $7,000? GTFO

Are you a bot? Your response was utter nonsense

It is but it was back then relative to the technology. Just like how light bulbs are far more fucking complex now than they were back then but somehow they are way cheaper.

Obamacare is a massive payout to the medical INDUSTRY.
They don't exist to keep people healthy. They milk you for everything while you slowly die.
They are part of the evil scum who benefit from the fraud that is now America.
Luckily, the End is nigh.

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option 2 if your white only

You would think of a communist solution. No, by given either incentive or changing patent law to allow competitions of manufacturing of designs for societal needs if a party of the profits go back to the original designer.

Hahahahaha
Endlesss murican discussions about health-care all because they do not want to admit that both GOV and Private sector fuck them in the ass.

Real question is, why does same procedure cost 200$ in EU and 7000$ in murica, for no reason.

Homeless people rely on charity one way or another. If communities are allowed to set up their own private practices again, doctors will be able to help whomever they have time to help. They won't be stopped from helping people because they can't pay, because the fraternity pays them a salary to do their job.

That hobo will probably end up with a limp even if you gave him the best service possible, they don't follow after-care instructions. Ever.
Bums want immediate pain and discomfort dealt with, they give exactly zero fucks about their long term ANYTHING, that's why they are bums.

It's not a real problem
No modern first world government will let it's citizens die of treatable illnesses/injuries, and no self respecting population will accept that their countrymen are worth so little that they should perish in the street to save a few pennies

The issues isn't one of "Who pays?" At the end of the day, it is always going to be the people producing value in society who pay. The majority of the population in any modern civilization is effectively superfluous, whether they have jobs or not they're probably not doing anything of value with their lives, as measured by their effect on society as a whole. That's just how societies work. It's accentuated by automation and economies of scale making a lot of unkilled labor redundant, but at the core it's true of every society and civilization, even among ants and monkeys.

In general, civilization has no problem caring for those who cannot care for themselves, if everything else in the system is running well enough. If there were an adequate supply of doctors and nurses to care for Johnny Hobo who broke his arm falling off a boxcar, 99% of people would be fine if 0.0...001% of their taxes went to paying the doctor for the simple, cheap and quick procedure to prevent him from dying of sepsis or losing the arm. The problem is that it isn't a simple, cheap or quick procedure. There aren't enough doctors to go around, so every minute he spends on Johnny Hobo is one where he isn't fixing your grandpa's hip. The pharmaceutical and insurance companies are running wild with each other, making things as simple as saline solution get marked up by 1000%, all of which ends up on the taxpayer's back. When it's a negligible load nobody minds, but once it starts crushing them the system starts to fall apart.

Obamacare literally makes it Illegal not to give money to insurance companies...
Fuckoff dummy

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