I've been thinking that the role of government is to organize and manifest the collective will of the people. The self-sovereignty and freedom of individual humans must also be taken into account. Perhaps the ideal state is one where the people are free to explore and push boundaries yet live in harmony and are able to put their creative and constructive energies into collective actions by means of the state.
If things are too strict then the people will feel oppressed and become demoralized society will stagnate and the leaders will become tyrants trying to hold things together. If things are too loose then degeneracy can take root.
So I think in order to allow individual freedom yet harness creative energies collectively, states should be organized primarily by culture or mindset. People who have certain ideals and values that would harmonize with the collective would be allowed to immigrate, while others would not. This would filter out a lot of the you-know-whos while not being arbitrary. There could be things like civil service exams like the Chinese used to do, where you need to have a certain degree of education and such as well to become a citizen, and different harder levels to hold positions in goverment, etc. Association based on a common way of thinking. What do you think?
No state should represent the will of the people at all. The people are stupid animals. Democracy in practice is rule by those who control the voting patterns, namely manipulating demographics and pushing propaganda.
Universal suffrage is the death knell of republican government.
Ian Moore
>people who have certain ideals and values that would harmonize with the collective would be allowed to immigrate, while others would not. Nigger, nearly every terrorist attack done in Europe has been done by the second or third generation muslim migrant here. While the first generation generally actually were "culturally assailable", being either intellectual refugees from muslim theocracies or westernized rebels against their social order, their natural blood and inclinations have resurfaced after a generation. Same with any peoples group. I bet if China only allowed migration for the most pro-Chink brainwashed of americans in large quantities that loved authoritarianism and the commie parties management, the second or third gen that would be born after them would have all the libertarian inclinations Burgers have.
Culture comes from temperament, empathy and reasoning ability. All of those things are decided by inheritance.
>The people are stupid animals. That is not always the case. It depends on the situation. Without guidance from the leaders they may indeed collapse into the animalistic state we see today. Liberal globalism tends to reduce people to such. However, throughout history, there have been moments and periods, for example during revolutions, where the people are united and full of energy and working towards some collective goal. Different countries have different levels of aesthetic awareness, social decency and harmony, etc. One main reason shipping in refugees en masse is an issue is because they do not understand how to operate with dignity and harmony with the host culture because they do not have the same values as the host culture. This also causes alienation and antagonism and the society falls into discord. But think about the Nazi period, the post-revolution Bolshevik period, etc. The Chinese Cultural Revolution. Human energy channeled into a cohesive wave of positive action. It can be done.
They are affected by inheritance yes, but the person needs to be sufficiently educated and such for those to be manifest. Also, for example East Asians and Whites, and some Indians, etc. there are people of various races which express virtue and I think going primarily by race would be arbitrary and be resented by many of the people in practice.
While I do think that blacks and such tend towards violence and aggression, I don't think the main reason is the Muslims' race, as Muslims had a Golden Age in Europe in the past and advanced science and such quite a bit. Rather people feel alienated and are exposed to the more beast-like humans such as negroids and such which doesn't allow them to feel safe and identify with their own society, since it contains uneducated and violent negroids. Alienation is the primary cause of (non-psyop) terror attacks in my view.
Camden Lee
>Muslims had a Golden Age in Europe in the past and advanced science and such quite a bit. Muslim golden age was when they conquered Persia and did not kill all the zoroastrians, instead allowing them to go into hiding as Shias. And even that golden age was destroyed by their natural iconoclasty a few generations later when they managed to consume all the legacy of their conquered province.
To "educate" people, or lets just use a more honest term: Brainwash a group of people that do not have a natural inclination for acting in certain way, you need a constant, forceful shoving of desired norms down peoples throat, and if that force lapses for even a moment due to internal weakness or outside malevolence, the ethnicities that are in an unnatural mindstate will be reverted back into their most natural, lowest energy state. The american integration of various european whites was a success only because they allowed small numbers of them at a time, and because the force to integrate was constant, harsh and at times even fanatical, if you look at how the ehnic neighbourhoods were destroyed after WW2 by urban renewal. It only worked on whites because the force was constant and excessive, and while exactly the same and greater force was used on African-americans, they reverted back into their natural state the moment Jim Crow was abolished.
We do not live in an utopia where we have unlimited resources to brainwash aliens into our culture. And we do not live in a vaccume where foreign forces will not take advantage of the grievances of minorities in our countries for their own benefit. Just look at how Germans and Netherlands get massive protests of their Turkic minorities the moment they critizise Turkey.
The most natural, resource efficient and harmonious state is one where ethnic homogeneity rules. Your proposed "Cultural Nationalism", or simply imperialism, can only sustain itself by massive repression and harshness of human character.
Thomas Anderson
You are right but misunderstand my position. I also don't agree with the mass importation and brainwashing of aliens. Only immigrants who were already "educated" and shared the collective values would be allowed to immigrate. There would be a certain standard of virtue and a certain set of values that newcomers would be expected and required to have.
Wyatt Sullivan
>Only immigrants who were already "educated" and shared the collective values would be allowed to immigrate. What is even the point of allowing immigration then, if the only thing you want is a BASED BLACK GUY just parroting your own ideas back to you.
Kevin Parker
The point is to allow for freedom of movement and interaction between dignified peoples and cultural, artistic, scientific, exchange. When the immigrant in question is educated and virtuous, it can be interesting and nice for both parties. Scientists, artists, people with something positive to share or contribute.
Tyler Gomez
I have nothing against tourists, but they cant be citizens.
Easton Hall
Limiting things in such a way seems to be treating humans as cattle and in treating them as cattle you force them to either become cattle or to resent the state of things. Say someone goes to another country and wants to marry someone they met there and bring them back. To ban it would seem inhuman to me.
Adrian Ortiz
Treating humans as exchangeable cogs that can be swapped into your machine as long as they believe in a magical document is more inhumane. The value of Citizenry comes from its restrictiveness. Every undeserving who becomes a citizen just because your "muh human rights" cheapens citizenry as a whole, and bogs the machine of a country down with an extra problem to manage. Marrying an outsider is an edge-case event, not something that happens in such regularity that there has to be any massive legistlation over it.
Cameron Edwards
The ideal "thing" to organize humans into a collective around is a shared set of values and culture. People of the same race can fall into discord with each other because their ideals can be different.
>Every undeserving who becomes a citizen just because your "muh human rights" cheapens citizenry as a whole, and bogs the machine of a country down with an extra problem to manage. As I've been saying, only those who could live in harmony with the society and be able to positively contribute would be let in. No gibs-seeking economic refugees.
Tyler Miller
>The ideal "thing" to organize humans into a collective around is a shared set of values and culture. Yes, and there are natural restrictions to how big that ideal group can be. The bigger you increase the group, the more you have to cheapen the central shared culture to include everyone, and the more alienated and disenfranchised everyone starts to feel.
Blacks and SJW´s in america are right when they say Nogs and Hispanics are disenfranchised in their culture, because they can never identify with the WASP roots of the country fully. And if they could, then the whites would feel alienated from the mongrolized state of culture created, such as "Bolwing alone" book describes
There are natural limitations to how many people you can maintain in a single culture. Best, most merciful thing is to recognize those limitations and set boundaries for where one culture ends and another begins, instead of trying to expand and conquer the whole globe under a single, worthless monoculture. Let a thoulsand Switzerlands bloom is a better, more humane way of existence than an Empire Über Alles. And to maintain a thousand Switzerlands, you need a thousand borders.
You said that even people of the same race can fall into discord. Then for what purpose should we even allow other, even more alien races into our sphere of influence? When the protestant reformation, and the Orthodox split separated people who were under the same cultural rule into bloody warring factions over a small religious disagreement, for what purpose should we exasperate the natural human tendency to secede with importing a physically different looking groups into our regions?
Connor Collins
Come on now that's way to much thicc What the fuck is wrong with you OP
>No gibs-seeking economic refugees. Also as an addition, all modern problems of western nations came from economic refugees. The american blacks came as slave labour force, the Turks came as guest workers, and parents of various terrorists in europe came from educated middle eastern doctors, businessmen and scientists from the middle-east. It is not enough that you simply are not a drain on the here and now. If your group have a tendency to remain a problem generations into the immigration, you should be excluded from owning land and citizenry.
Henry Scott
>Best, most merciful thing is to recognize those limitations and set boundaries for where one culture ends and another begins, instead of trying to expand and conquer the whole globe under a single, worthless monoculture. Yes, I agree with you. Different autonomous cultures each pursuing different things. If someone feels more interested in another culture though, and wants to experience and learn about it, they should be able to, provided they can act with dignity and respect for the host culture. This is where individual freedom comes into play.
>for what purpose should we exasperate the natural human tendency to secede with importing a physically different looking groups into our regions? Synergy, information exchange, interesting experience, more variety. In my own life experience I have learned a lot by interacting with people from different cultural backgrounds and don't really even have many friends of my own race (I'm white, currently living in Asia) Limiting and separating people based on race without regards to their minds seems incorrect and arbitrary.
Leo White
>Synergy buzzword > information exchange can be done without immigration >interesting experience You can just travel to their country, you lazy faggot, instead of importing them here to have Ficki-ficki and sexual emergencies in your new years eve celebration >more variety Literally "BUT HOW GOOD IS THE FOOD". You can simply buy the recepies if you are a glutton, import fashions and trends, not people. You do not need a "Chinatown" in your city to have some nice sushi.
Jeremiah Cooper
The role of government is to fuck off Reee
Jeremiah Nelson
>Limiting and separating people based on race without regards to their minds seems incorrect and arbitrary. Not by race, by Ethnicity.
Jeremiah Watson
You seem to be selectively neglecting what I've said, or perhaps your views filter it to the point of distortion. I am not in favor of the mass importation of Africans etc. like what is going on in Europe. Humans should be free to associate and cooperate on different cultures, and form new cultures. If cultures are different and incompatible then they should split into separate states. It should be more dynamic where people aren't branded as a member of a herd for life but are free to find what suits them on this Earth.
Colton Richardson
Aka;
Same old Africanization, with some more LARPing.
Kys , "integration" is worse than parallel societies.
Aaron Parker
You seem to be curiously leaving out Arabs from whenever you counter mass immigration points. Also, the main contentious issue i have with you is that you seem to misunderstand human nature and interactions between different human groups. >Humans should be free to associate and cooperate on different cultures, and form new cultures. Problem is that the large mass of humans are not individual creatures, but their inborn group forms a massive part of their behaviour. And that behaviour is centred around your own group interest over all others. While individuals can be magnanimous and selfless heroes, group behaviour rarely evolves past a zero-sum game of wrestling control over resources. It being land, food or pussy, all groups that have survived until today exhibit subconscious desires to forward their own group before all others.
Now the main problem with you i have is that you want citizenry to be based on some ideological test. Problem is, tests can be cheated, the test takers can be bribed, and all in all, all children of said test takers will be exempt from the same scrutiny that their parents faced, allowing for an ethnic colony to take hold in a country, and begin to compete with the host over resources. Inevitably, what follows is what happens in Sweden, with no-go zones of arabs making Sweden the rape capital of europe. What follows is Texas, that now has become so Latino through mass migration that its expected to become a new california. What follows is what happens in the Russian-Chinese border regions, where chinese migration over the border to Russian industry towns now is seen as having a possible chance of rebelling and joining China in a generations time, altering the borders without a single shot fired.
You can go and associate with whomever you want, have all the experiences you need in your asian tours and live out your yellow fever dreams there, and return later to your motherland with STD`s and a happa hanging on to your skirt.
Michael Davis
Perhaps we have different experiences and different values. Anyway, thanks for the discussion.
Grayson Perry
I feel sad for whatever group of people spawned you. For i would not wish for such a perfect traitor to even my greatest enemy.
