In 1982, the Supreme Court held in Plyler vs Doe that Texas may not deny children of illegal aliens education in public schools. They argued that the equal protection clause in the 14th amendment means these children are entitled to schooling.
How can Trump differentiate the 14th amendment birthright citizenship clause from Plyler vs. Doe?
—— Use of the phrase "within its jurisdiction" thus does not detract from, but rather confirms, the understanding that the protection of the Fourteenth Amendment extends to anyone, citizen or stranger, who is subject to the laws of a State, and reaches into every corner of a State's territory. That a person's initial entry into a State, or into the United States, was unlawful, and that he may for that reason be expelled, cannot negate the simple fact of his presence within the State's territorial perimeter. Given such presence, he is subject to the full range of obligations imposed by the State's civil and criminal laws. And until he leaves the jurisdiction -- either voluntarily, or involuntarily in accordance with the Constitution and laws of the United States -- he is entitled to the equal protection of the laws that a State may choose to establish. —— law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/457/202
14th Amendment: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. . . ."
Illegals are not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, which means the amendment does not apply to them.
Ethan Carter
Plyler vs. Doe says that illegals are subject to the jurisdiction of the US.
—-
Texas officials had argued that illegal aliens were not "within the jurisdiction" of the state and thus could not claim protections under the Fourteenth Amendment. The court majority rejected this claim, finding instead that "no plausible distinction with respect to Fourteenth Amendment 'jurisdiction' can be drawn between resident immigrants whose entry into the United States was lawful, and resident immigrants whose entry was unlawful." The dissenting opinion also rejected this claim, agreeing with the Court that "the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment applies to immigrants who, after their illegal entry into this country, are indeed physically 'within the jurisdiction' of a state." The dissent simply concluded that the distinction the statute drew should survive an equal protection attack.
Luis Foster
Where does the 14th Amendment use the words "within the jurisdiction"? It says "subject to the jurisdiction." Illegal entry calls such subjection into question, though they doubtless are "within" the jurisdiction, but they became so illegally. There's no question they are "within." The question is whether they are "subject to."
Noah Taylor
There is also the question of whether a fetus is a person subject to law. Perhaps the law would make a distinction between someone who was conceived within the United States, and so was always here from the beginning of their unique existence, versus someone who was conceived outside of the United States and made illegal entry, and are thus illegal aliens thus and are not subject to US jurisdiction.
And which circus of a liberal court did they ramrod that retarded decision through?
Cameron White
It's political sophistry, at best. It completely skirts the issue of naturalization and simply states that "because they're here, they are subject to jurisdiction"
And there is no plausible distinction that can be drawn between legal immigrants and illegal immigrants? Smells of bought judge bullshit to me.
Cameron Brooks
Good point. Plyler, however, had an interesting footnote on the distinction.
it is all bought judge bullshit. when you look at what actually occurred while the amendment was drafted in 1866, it is clear that while there is some form of birthright citizenship, it isn't just travel here on a visa or hop the border while being a subject of another country and shit out a baby.
Xavier Turner
You burgers are whack. I thought texas killed before for making fun of their hats, not used their tax dollars to raise kids of foreign countrys so that their daughters can suckle their brown peepees.
Benjamin Myers
try reading what actually happened. based texas made illegal kids pay tuition to go to school. libtard supreme court justices decided that was illegal because muh chillunz and reinterpretation of the 14th amendment going against what the actual drafters of the amendment said - see
Luis Flores
Ooh, my mistake el creatura
Michael Long
Are illegals subject to the draft? No. Which means they're not subject to our jurisdiction, which means their kids aren't U.S. citizens. The job of the court is to interpret the original intent of the lawmakers, and who can better explain their intent, than the lawmakers themselves?
>policy created by unelected government agency is law
Brayden Wood
The supremes will break it down this way, there are distinctions between the protections and the privileges the constitution affords someone who is just a person and not a citizen. The word person will become very important. Any person inside the United States is protected by the constitution as far as due process, human rights, etc, but they are not afforded the privileges of voting, benefits, holding office, etc. you will need a matrix of person and citizen and the various types of jurisdiction. Yes it will be a massive kikeball of pilpul and deceit before the courts, but we will win in the end because the historical facts of citizenship here support our case. The supremes will go to the intents of the authors of the 14th and see the senate debates and know that they did not intend for invasive populations to be able to anchor babies.
Robert Hall
>Where does the 14th Amendment use the words "within the jurisdiction"? It says "subject to the jurisdiction." The different language is used in different provisions.
The 14th is a long amendment of five sections. >Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. >All persons born... subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens >nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws
Plyler vs Doe is irrelevant. This phrase "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" was specifically explained by the people writing and approving it in Congress as excluding the offspring of foreigners. This is a matter of public record and can't be honestly disputed. The word "subject" is important, because it was used in the sense of being a subject, like the subject of a king. You can be "within its jurisdiction" without being "subject to the jurisdiction thereof".
Also: >Section 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. Consider in light of "the Resistance" and people giving aid and comfort to invaders.
Andrew Jackson
Who gives a fuck? The white guilt bank is empty. Illegals are illegal, get the fuck out. Fire up the trains and buses, round them up by the millions and dump them over the wall. Enough bullshit. These amendments were not written with the intention of including every one of the 5 billion browns the globe has to offer, their intention was to grant the ex-slaves legal status, not to encourage tens of millions of beans to jump the border and shit on our elections.
>this will not of course persons born in the US who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers, but will include EVERY OTHER GROUP OF PERSONS
Why can’t right-wingers reading comprehension
>their “proof” clearly states that everyone, except the children of diplomats, will be granted birthright citizenship
Trump is a 1st class retardant if he thinks anything but a constitutional amendment can change 14th amendment
More on Section 3 of the 14th: >Section 3 was used to prevent Socialist Party of America member Victor L. Berger, convicted of violating the Espionage Act for his anti-militarist views, from taking his seat in the House of Representatives in 1919 and 1920. It can be used to exclude or remove people who have rebelled or given aid and comfort to America's enemies from ANY OFFICE OF GOVERNMENT at federal or state level: Congress, the military, the judiciary, the bureaucracy. Congress has the power to enforce it by legislation, which means that it takes only simple majorities.
They can expel Democrats who have expressed support for, or otherwise given aid and comfort to, the Resistance, Antifa, or things like invader caravans, and then amend the constitution with the supermajorities they have without them.
Nathan King
.
Jaxon Sullivan
>. This mean I win right??
Josiah Fisher
>can expel Dems Cool story bro, wake me up when I’m expelled
Liam Jackson
The Constitution is a living document meant to be interpreted in the time it is needed :^)
Thomas Morales
You are expelled.
Carter Howard
Illegals cannot serve jury duty. Thus they cannot fulfill obligations of citizens. Therefore they are not subject to jurisdiction. Subject to jurisdiction does not simply mean you can be arrested for breaking a law. It means you are subject to the whole range of activity by legal institutions, not just partially.
Otherwise illegals are entitled to all benefits and privileges of being a citizen without all the obligations and duties of being a citizen; and this would make being an illegal have more net utility than being a fucking citizen, and this would be absurd and untenable.
Chase Brooks
This is the girl who was raped by 15 refugees ?
Joseph Nelson
>this will not of course persons born in the US who are foreigners
You seem to be the retard here. Illegal aliens are foreigners.
Ryan Butler
Physically in the jurisdiction is meaningless. If a russian hacks a computer in USA he is not physically in the jurisdiction but can still be prosecuted. If the Russian or illegal is prosecuted he should be afforded due process and equal protection, but that doesn’t make him subject to jurisdiction in the sense of the 14th as pertaining to citizenship. If that Russian being prosecuted by the USA without ever stepping foot in the USA has a baby it is not a us citizen. Suppose the Russian is a pregnant female and is extradited to the us convicted and impriaoned and has a baby in a us prison is that baby a us citizen?
Daniel Rodriguez
Subject to jurisdiction doesn’t just mean you can be prosecuted for breaking us laws. It means you are also subject to all obligations and duties laid out by that state.
Illegals cannot serve jury duty in any case whatsoever, therefore they are not subject to jurisdiction. Period.
What is the benefit of being a citizen over an illegal if illegals get all the benefits and privileges without the obligations and duties ? The very idea is destructive of the republic
Connor Thomas
Supreme Court makes wrong decisions all the time.
Samuel Sanchez
But the people who made that amendment owned slaves goy. Don’t you think it’s time to make redresses to mexicans because you owned slaves?
Jose Thompson
>you are Canadian. Rather be me any day
Eli Barnes
How can you be retarded enough to quote "Illegal aliens, foreigners, diplomats" then, in the very next sentence, claim it only says diplomats?
Jacob Robinson
Why don’t you finish the sentence? >doesn’t know what a comma means >actually talks about someone else’s retardness
Cooper Jenkins
Foreign hackers can be prosecuted without ever being physically on us soil Either everyone everywhere is subject to us jurisdiction Or being subject to jurisdiction means more than just that ya can prosecute you for breaking a law. In fact subject to jurisdiction means you are tied to all legal obligations and duties not just penalties.
Illegals cannot serve jury duty in any case etc and therefore are not subject
Brayden James
>Playing attorneys The courts will sort it out. Until then you all are blovating in the breeze
Joshua Wright
can’t eveb read a sentence correctly? >classic trump voter
Nathaniel Smith
>Boo >Yaaah
Noah Bailey
New rules, faggot. You lose. We win. Eat shit. Why do you think the left went so hard against Kavenaugh?
Adrian Morales
>Paco is illegal and his kid are illegal, but the Feds are too lazy to deport him, so as long as he's left to reside illegally here he participates in common rights of residents, but that doesn't protect him or his family from being arrested and deported at any moment." So it has nothing to do with the anchor baby case. And it is wrong - an illegal didn't pay for the public schools and isn't entitled to go there - he can enjoy ordinary rights of contract but not the special privileges that government only offers people on the terms and conditions the government itself defines. Liberals wrongly disagree with that statement, but Conservatives agree.
Kevin James
Paul Ryan disagrees with all of you: >”Trump is a rere. Republicans believe in plain text of constitution, and I think the text in the 14th is clear, that people born here are citizens”
why do Repugs hate the constitution?
Hudson Myers
Actually there was a recent change that requires all undocumented immigrants male age 18-25 to register for selective service despite not having social security numbers. Obviously this is bullshit and no one does it and they wouldn’t serve anyway, but the point is the left added this to shore up their jurisdiction argument.
However it wouldn’t take much of a case for the Supreme Court to rule that hey it is pretty unconstitutional and beyond scope of powers for the president to draft illegal aliens who happen to be present on us soil.
Once that is affirmed then aliens obviously aren’t subject to jurisdiction
Leo Howard
It's worse than Plyler vs. Doe. Illegals can actually vote in some local elections. The Talmud has been used for so long to whittle away at our constitution, that any debate will leave one walking away feeling like a confused, hypocrite--and this is very much by jewish design. As Hitler said in 1922:
"Jewish World Bolshevism makes not the slightest contribution to our economy or culture, but only spreads confusion. It makes not a single positive contribution on the international stage of life in Europe or the world, but rather brings forth only propagandistic charts of lying statistics and agitational posters".
Jonathan Morgan
But muh anchor baby Adios, muchachos.
Jose King
Amen. To the people caring more about arguing over words written hundreds of years ago instead of just doing what must be done to defend your people and country, grow the fuck up. Blood over words
Bentley Morales
Trump doesn’t pay taxes, thus he is Paco. Melania was not born here, and does not pay taxes, thus Jr and the retarded looking ones are Paco’s kids >export the Trump family stat
Luis Powell
The constitution isn't a suicide pact. Fuck off, back to wherever you came from. Also, Trump has the votes on the supreme court. Eat shit.
Jason Brooks
Yeah because when I want to mean ONLY ‘children of foreign ambassadors’ I write ‘foreigners, aliens, children of foreign ambassadors’ instead of just ‘children of foreign ambassadors’
Benjamin Price
Paco is a net loss to the economy. Fuck you.
William Martinez
The 14th Amendment was created to clarify that yes freed slaves are now citizens. It was never intended as casrte blanche for invading spics.
Gavin Butler
Ryan don’t know how read
Nolan Stewart
Trump isn't going to do anything, and he knows he can't do anything. The plan isn't actually for an executive order to work, it's for the eo to get challenged and and work it's way through to the Supreme Court. The goal is for SCOTUS to rule on it and re-interpret it as it was originally meant to be.
John Russell
Trump makes money off of birthright citizenship >google Russian Birth Tourism at Trump properties
It’s all a ruse to get inbreds excited to vote >working very well on you >hmmm
Joshua White
Simple. The 14th amendment was not properly ratified. It is not real law and he can ignore it.
Colton Phillips
>Trump isn't going to do anything >Trump saves America for another generation
Jeremiah Stewart
This can and will I assume be re adjudicated by the new Court which should have no problem over-ruling the former as a flawed reading. The flaw may be in the application of the term "subject to" in regard to "Jurisdiction". As an alien their subjection to US law is not of the same nature as a citizen as they still retain rights granted by their native Country to which under International law and treaty the US would recognize as having priority over the individual. If an illegal non US citizen commits a capital murder in the US their home nation often petitions for rendition if they would not impose the death penalty so we normally repatriate them.
A US citizen's subjection to US jurisdiction immerses them in the legal structure as a fully integrated participant so there exists no real basis to select certain aspects and selectively include a non-citizen alien who retains primary allegiance with a foreign nation. Sound good?
Grayson Gomez
He owns hotels. Foriegn maternity tourism is not the main source of his income. Google yourself eating a turd.
Bentley Gray
this claim comes up a lot about Amendment XVI but Courts continue to repel it.. it should be looked at again. just because something gets adopted and has been accepted for ages shouldn't give it some protected status if in fact it did not properly pass the constitutional process.
Levi Clark
Yes because when I list out a number of disparate things, I never use and before the last one.
But when I discribe one specific thing, you know things that are part of the same, to lengthen the description, and I always put ‘and’ before the last item
>muh reading comprehension so well, jolly, good
Jordan Lewis
This is correct. After the slaves were given the rights the amendment became completely worthless and powerless. It was only for that one thing and now it is done. Plus the States rejected it and then had their governments declared illegal and had military tribunals ratify the amendment. So the fed gov put a gun to the States and said you better ratify this or else. lol.
Landon Gray
>be me >google dem eating terd >find picture of Camalia Harris eating Trump Win?
Juan Robinson
>Retarded right wingers use retarded left wing anti-2nd arguments because their God emperor wants to fuck over American right this time.
I don't even dislike Trump, but anyone who wants to fuck with the constitution are inherently being anti-American.
Landon Diaz
Many Democrats don't pay taxes or have not in the past, notably Jared polis trying to get elected in Colorado.
Going to deport him too?
Jaxson Evans
The courts are corrupt and play on the fed gov's team, so why would they tell the truth and weaken their own power? Up until very recently the media even acknowledged that the amendment was not ratified. Now they pretend that isn't true. The States could stand up to this but they are weak and filled with corruption and cravens.
Andrew Thomas
>How can Trump differentiate the 14th amendment birthright citizenship clause from Plyler vs. Doe? Simple, that case was ruled incorrectly. Illegals and their children have no rights and should be denied all forms of aid.
Juan Sanders
We all need to be pushing the absolute fact that the amendment was never even ratified and that Trump doesn't have to follow it. It would be truly epic. Liberal tears would flood the earth.
Jace Roberts
>This is Jeopardy (c. 2100) >”trump saves america” What is a phrase never written in any history book ever? Alex Trabek robot >correct
William Johnson
Youre sad about being btfo and it shows
Grayson Mitchell
>Taxes are for stupid poor people, who can’t afford accountants or are too redpilled for TurboTax Which are you?
Kayden White
So you have no argument other than to say 'nuh uh'.
Good job, the meme flag suits you fucking moron.
Henry White
Born Too Fucking Owesome >So Sad!
Charles Ross
America BTFO
Ryder Moore
my point is no ones getting deported, and many people don’t pay taxes.
>you actually made my point stronger
Bravo and Well done and Good Job
Henry Allen
Dual citizenship is next...
Elijah Barnes
Let’s re-visit this. Because the original law clearly meant pic related. They didn’t say anything about geographical location, they said JURISDICTION. It’s fucking obvious what they meant. And this pic is from your link btw.
They should start with Congress. How exactly is AIPAC legal?
Benjamin Morris
communication facilities traverse borders, if a hacker breaks into a system that violates law while his locale has a extradition treaty.. he might as well just been next to the server he hacked. Your argument has little to do concerning us jurisdiction and birthright citizenship.
>this will not of course persons born in the US who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers
Ok, let's look at it.
>this will not of course persons born in the US who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers
Group 1) Foreigners Group 2)Aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers
Foreigners and aliens are synonyms, so there's no reason to name them twice. Ambassadors and foreign ministers are 2 different grades of representation from a foreign power.
But please, tell us what you think it means, so we can laugh at you.
Brayden Lee
Who made the change? Can you name a law?
Nicholas Phillips
In computer age anyone anywhere who hacks us computer systems can be prosecuted. So being on us soil is not necessary to being subject to prosecution and penalty So ‘subject to jurisdiction’ must mean more than just ‘subject to prosecution and penalty’ and more than ‘just being on us soil’. Or else everyone in the world is subject to us jurisdiction, which would be absurd
Samuel Kelly
Anyway, there's no point in quibbling over that, because he clears away this sort of confusion a little later in the same discussion, when he talks about how there's no need to add a specific mention of the Indians, because they're quasi foreigners and therefore obviously excluded as foreigners.
It's not ambiguous, but absolutely clear that they meant the words "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" to exclude foreigners, and specifically included them for that purpose.
You aren’t making a point. It was argued that ‘subject to us jurisdiction’ means you are in us territory and can be prosecuted for breaking us laws there. But in today’s world you can break us law and be prosecuted for it without ever stepping foot on us soil. Therefore subject to jurisdiction must mean more than subject to prosecution and penalty, more than just being on us soil. Or else everyone in the world is today subject to us jurisdiction and the phrase is meaningless.
Robert Morris
Bottom Line...
No Law is Perfect...
Mongrel-Theists have exploited a loop-hole in this "Amendment" written during "Reconstruction"
The "intent" was to allow citizenship to Negroes after the civil war.
This was written before Automobiles, before Airplanes, before Telephones, and during a time when there were unincorporated "Frontier" regions in America...
It is Mongrel-Theist doctrine and may constitute a "Theology", which violates the "Establishment of Religion" clause.
Mongrel-Theism is a Religion.
It is unlawful to promote one "Religion" over another...
The Mongrel-Theists are promoting a "Theology", and using a loop-hole in the American Constitution for continued exploitation.
Who cares what a piece of shit court says? Judges are like fecal matter, you expel them and make more.
Cooper Wright
This is dumb. You’re not required to report your own birth to the US government. Your parents are also not required to report your own birth. If your dad delivers you and just chooses not to say anything, nothing illegal happens. YOU ARE NOT REQUIRED TO OBTAIN A SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER OR BIRTH CERTIFICATE, EVEN AS A CITIZEN.
The government can’t prevent you from attending school without proof of citizenship because of this, not because of illegal children.
>>Playing attorneys >The courts will sort it out. Until then you all are blovating in the breeze
I am an attorney at law. Licensed in NY. So I am not playing.
Ethan Rodriguez
>Foreigners and aliens are synonyms Wrong. It is a distinction between people who are tied to another state and people who are just random savages or outcasts. Everyone outside the group of us citizens is an alien, but only those people from a state recognized by the us are foreigners. A foreign ambassador for example is an alien from a state recognized by the us.
In other words: all foreigners are aliens but not all aliens are foreigners. An ISIS militant would only be an alien not a foreigner
Cameron Morales
no, some Russian girl named most beautiful kid
Leo Wilson
Subject to jurisdiction means more than subject to prosecution and penalty - to put it short.
Lucas Rogers
>Thou shalt not eat fruit and especially not oranges. >He said we can eat all fruit except oranges!
Bentley Richardson
Trump should draft all illegals and make them build the wall
Brody Wilson
Yeah because a rational human would put an “&” between fruit / especially and not a “,” >thanks for making my point
Robert Carter
/thread
Kayden Jenkins
If this was really the case then why has it been happening all this time?
