On Wednesday, the federal cabinet decided that, from January 1st, 2019, the universal lower threshold will be increased from its current €8.84 an hour to €9.19. From January 1st, 2020 it will be increased further to €9.35.
But there is still demand raise it even further to €12 an hour. Despite a booming economy, millions of people in Germany still live on the poverty line; almost a fifth of the population in the last year was threatened by poverty of social exclusion, according to the Federal Office for Statistics.
€12 is pretty much Bernie Sanders’ $15 per hour... just that healthcare, education, paid vacation, and many other gibmees come on top of this. Plus, Germany has a 40% lower cost of living, so €12 is pretty much like $20-$25 an hour in Murrica.
I want to point out that the claim that non-whites are brought into our countries to keep wages low is clearly false. The same people wanting these invasions also want to raise the minimum wage.
Brayden Wilson
first they destroy their own car manufactures and now this why is germany doing everything in its power to destroy its industry
John Morris
Cool, so we gotta raise gibs too, so the turks wont chimp out and burn their kebaps to the ground, where else will we get our multiculturalism from ?
Because it's all fags from here on out, how nice it is, to have democratically elected "representatives".
Robert Sullivan
They could make the minimum wage $100/hour, and poor people will still be poor. Poverty is a behavioral problem not a financial one, and I hope this (and the fight for 15 in America) succeeds so that people can see this
Jayden Morris
Minimum wage hikes are seen as a good way to deter illegal migration and low skilled migration, while pushing automatisation and robotization ans keeping the country from falling into a deflationary death spiral.
Oliver Hall
No, the idea is to keep gibs at a constant low level, so that more gibsmee dat people get jobs, something the industry wants.
Nolan Carter
aren't there gun laws in germany so you could use some of the gibsmedat money for a gun? frogs can, so why not hans?
Wyatt Ward
You’re just as clueless as the people you’re attacking. Libs are too dumb to understand the irony of more immigrants plus higher minimum wage means, but it’s not because the 2 aren’t related.
Brayden Robinson
Wait until the "refugees welcome" crowd in cooperation with the industrialists demands exemptions from minimum wage law for the poor refugees to help them "integrate" into German labor market better.
Isaiah Wright
2 adults living in Germany with no gibs in a 1960s apartment can live a decent life on two minimum wage salaries these days at 30-38 hours a week. Not to mention that even those food delivery people on bikes actually make minimum wage plus tips, so typcially they make 12-14 euros an hour. Some girl who brought me pizza explained to me she is studying medicine and the 10-15hrs she is biking food to people makes her enough, next to her father’s allowance, to live a comfy life.
Carter Clark
We already have 1 euro jobs, Hans.
Also, our rules people are hard at work “integration” all the gibsme dat “refugees”. Funny thing is, they even end up actually working or starting apprenticeships. It’s a miracle.
So the problem is hiring the refugees? But I though Germany needed them for jobs?
Dominic King
you missed the bit where about half their wage is paid in taxes afterwards.
Henry Sanchez
I'm not against this.
Zachary Russell
increasing wages means nothing if it doesn't result in increased purchasing power.
reduce the cost of living and reduce the tax burden on citizens. Remove red tape and allow people to establish their own businesses more easily and boost self-employment over large corporations.
Zachary Campbell
>first they destroy their own car manufactures
Wot? They weren't even fined here. Only in murrica.
Carter Robinson
Noooo we can't do that!!!! Instead pay them more money and watch everything get more fucked up, more people getting fired, shit getting more expensive, etc.
Germans are so retarded sometimes, holy shit.
Henry White
Just raise the minimum wage again, duh
Brody Fisher
>gibmees The fuck is wrong with you
Colton Reed
>Wait until the "refugees Ah, the eternal refugee bullshit
John White
>Despite a booming economy, millions of people in Germany still live on the poverty line; almost a fifth of the population in the last year was threatened by poverty of social exclusion
So why are you eagerly bringing in millions of refugees?
Michael King
This basically, nobody wants an incompetent nigger at €12 per hour, might as well hire a native or put in a robot.
Tyler Hall
>minimum wage to raise twice >yet poverty persists i dont know why this headline is so fucking funny to me, youd think people grasped basic economics
There's this large country full of morons governed by morons who like to destabilize countries with their silly wars and then there's such shit states across Europe not even refugees want to stay in.
Nicholas Williams
This will draw more neets into the workforce and get more temporary migrant workers from inside the EU. Good call.
Caleb Taylor
It also incentives automation which gets rid of nigger jobs.
Leo Lopez
The 'Change my Mind' Crowder Show really changed my mind. Do you remember when this kid named Yusef debated Crowder on socialism? Yusef made a really good point in regards to minimum wage and migration. I have to say I never looked at this issue from that point of view and since then I'm okay with minimum wage. This is a kind of barrier for low-skilled, cheap labour. Next step is to go after 'Schwarzarbeiter' and those who employ them.
Wyatt Jenkins
Oy gevalt goy, you shouldn't ask anti-semetical questions!
On a serious note, this always baffles me. Why do so many governments keep bringing in immigrants by the boatload when a lot of their own citizens already live in poor conditions?
Evan Adams
>So why are you eagerly bringing in millions of refugees? After the (pro-white) plutocrat-bolshevist alliance won the holy war we (Anglo-Americans) wrote their constitution and created Merkel's party. We forced the refugee conventions on an occupied Europe, forever destabilized MENA by creating Israel, destroyed the dictators that were holding back the flood of human shit, etc.
Economy is not a zero sum game. Raising wages is a good thing if national productivity increases by the same amount or fairly higher than that.
Gabriel Garcia
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha but really as the wage level rises, do you really think firms will hire the same number of people?
Jaxson Fisher
> fiat money has a static value Come back when you get some sense
Michael Rogers
actually national productivity kept increasing but wages did not keep up. increasing the minimum wage will just help to straighten that one out.
also makes it more attractive to partake in "shitty jobs" rather than stay on welfare, which is a real alternative for singles. quite comfy actually
Wyatt Peterson
Yes, that’s why raising wages in krautland doesn’t seem a bad thing to me. Germany has basically the same cost of life of northern Italy but you earn 50% more on average. Sounds really comfy.
Luis Wilson
70 years ago you were killing these people mercilessly. Oh how things change.
Juan Jackson
>raise minimum wage by law >German business owners don't want to pay their niggers more money, opt for investments in automation >industry is modernized, jobless niggers turn to crime and are put in prison (which creates jobs for German policemen) >socialists will vote for this because of muh minimum wage 4D chess
Jayden Gutierrez
Thing is that on welfare you get around 410€ each month + rent for a modest apartment.
I am close to minimum wage and earn around 1100€ every month after taxes etc. but have to obviously pay rent and everything else myself.
It really comes down to if you can rent a cheap space here. If rents are high then it is often not worth it to work a minwage job. Raising the minimum wage helps. But if they would want to decrease unemployment rates thy really should do two things: increase workforce qualification (planned) and lower rents (they talk about this but this will never happen).
Nicholas Richardson
>next to her father’s allowance, No fucking shit you retard
Brody Roberts
In any case, it will come out of the pocket of the middle class.
because you faggots keep destroying every coiuntry sorrounding europe
Luis Miller
Every German businessman who is not trying to make a quick buck with Americanized business practices is already paying far above minimum wage.
Minimum wage jobs are usually large chains or food related businesses. If you can not afford to pay at least 12€ an hour to your employees, then your business model is failing. Simple as that.
Lincoln Clark
It's about consumers not lower wages. There are loopholes which large corporations use to get around the minimum wage so it's just another way to take money from middle class business owners and give it the imported masses of consumers.
Brandon Cook
you're mistaking NPC's for their programmers.
Julian Jackson
Well, she’s making 600-700 euros a month by biking a bit in evenings and on weekends. Keeps her fit and I don’t know what her father gives her. Girl looked conservative, not commie lefty.
Isaac Cox
>Studying medicine >No Bafög >Allowance from rich parents
Yeah, no shit she has a comfy life.
Lucas Collins
I assumed her father is a doctor too because no Bafög. I made the mistake not asking her out...
Adam Watson
?. Explain
Christopher Gonzalez
>Why do so many governments keep bringing in immigrants by the boatload when a lot of their own citizens already live in poor conditions?
keep wages depressed, housing costs up. they absolutely do not give a single fuck about their own citizens
Nolan Murphy
Fake news
Julian Brown
German people have the lowest wealth of all EU nations. Most people can't even afford a house. cnbc.com/id/100629759
Jayden Ramirez
More fake news Never trust a germ, they are all npc
Josiah Davis
That articles tl;dr is literally: Germans don't fall for jewish plots.
Camden Flores
I agree with you in principle but instead of increasing wages it might be more worthwhile to reduce the costs to citizens instead. That way they are still left over with more money without putting more stress on smaller businesses. If an increase in the minimum wage just results in in increased cost of living, leaving the citizens back where they started but making it harder on small businesses that's a net loss.
Let me start by pointing out that the increase of the minimum wage is not that high. Again: If a small business owner can not deal with this then their business model is failing. If anything it forces them to innovate and to modernize to keep their profits high, which in return benefits our economy as a whole.
The increases in cost of living are minimal and I am willing to pay 2-3 Euros more a month for goods and services, so my follow countrymen can life a decent life.
Again, we do have a real alternative here for the people. That alternative would be unemployment. The higher the minimum wage, the less attractive unemployment becomes. And I want my countrymen to work instead of leeching the money that I put into our safety nets.
Jacob Rogers
The current plan of above inflation linked increases is the right approach. It means minimum wage is hiked constantly, putting pressure on inflation and thus on people on gibmees to seek work, at least part time.
A gibmees dat person is way better off to work 2 days a week at Pennymarkt at minimum wage than rely on state gibmees only.
Levi Taylor
I think that the amount of money you can earn and keep while being on gibmees should be slightly raised and in return let small businesses be more flexible in how and when they used the manpower desu.
Like yo stated, working 2 days a week at Pennymarkt should not be punished by reducing the gibs, and Pennymarkt in return should be able to have easy access to workers without too much paperwork. Like if some of the packers get sick they could call Arge and have them send some people over and if they do well Penny could keep using their workforce and this might result in fulltime employment if both parties agree. Flexibility is king. For workers and companies alike. Sadly, our Laws are very restrictive in that regard.
As it is right now a gibmees person could end up in a situation where working a small job like 2 days a week would reduce their gibs and they would get close to nothing for working at all. Thats whats currently wrong with the system. And again, rent is a rather large factor here. If you pay expensive as fuck rent then the gibs will be more attractive than a job. Just because rent is paid by the gib agency.
Aaron Richardson
If the increased minimum wage is so small how does it really improve the standard of living?
I dont see the harm in cutting taxes instead of increasing wages. Both end with the people's general quality of life improving. That said, an increase of wages would be nice, but i'd rather the state cut into its own flesh for once.
Chase Martinez
Germany is the most asocial country on this planet and shall burn to the ground soon enough.
Camden Lopez
When 90%+ of these shitskins just get on welfare and will never work a day in their lives, and in fact are completely incapable of performing any job, the theory that they are being imported for "cheap labor" sort of falls apart.
This is not at all about a cheap workforce, it's about destruction of western civilization as we know it. (((They))) don't need cheap workers or money, (((they))) own the banks and can make money out of thin air. This is beyond some sheeny trying to get rich, it's about world government.
> he actually believes this lmao, the reality is that once prices start to rise, the increase of welfare will be done too (it's even dictate by the law), so no. Rats will stay as rats regardless of wage hikes
Easton King
Agreed. I'd say Up to 500 euros a month in addition to gibmees dat shouldn't decreas gibmees dat at all or maybe max 10-20% reduction.
Between 500 euros to 1000 euros a month, gibmees dat should then decrease gradually until at 1000 euros own salary, you only get 100 to 200 euros extra. And at 1500 euros no more gibmees dat at all.
Also, up until 500-600 euros, Pennymarkt shouldn't be paying the full social benefits but only some small part of those.
Landon Mitchell
> If you can not afford to pay at least 12€ an hour to your employees, then your business model is failing. t. worker without any knowledge of management
Dominic Sanchez
>If the increased minimum wage is so small how does it really improve the standard of living?
It doesn't. It keeps the standard of living the same by keeping buying power on a steady level. Also, tax cuts are a double edges sword. I'd rather have stability in the long term than short term tax cuts. We finally managed to have a balanced year not long ago and have been in the red for a very long time. If they start to change tax values, they will end up having to do so in increasing frequencies.
I get your point, but stability is also an important factor for us Germans. And tax cuts are inherently unstable. I am not against tax cuts per sais, but in this case they seem to be the worse option. Stability is like our major draw for international investments and is one of the main reasons why our economy is robust. With the current model business owners can plan for decades, which has turned out is pretty important when you want to run a successful business.
Brayden Fisher
>t. worker without any knowledge of management t. complete idiot
Luke Kelly
> this idiot believes that income flow will always stay stable regardless of innovative or modernised state of a busineess lmao
Colton Peterson
CUT TAXES YOU RETARDED MOTHERFUCKERS I HATE OUR POLITICIANS
Blake Sanders
I'm pretty sure they are demanding that the immigrants alse get 15
Caleb Nelson
you mght as well start to offer minimum government paid wage to every citizen, like new Italian government figured to do.
Juan Richardson
>"millions of people in Germany" Yes. Not Germans. Just deport them and there is no problem Hans.
Chase Cruz
shit Mehmet, you obviously have no understanding on management of small businesses if think every small business should instantly start to pay 12€/h for every newbie employee instead of paying less and hiring two people instead in the same pice.
Juan Anderson
Let's be honest, give me a business that cannot pay 12 euros in Germany. Look at pic related, people who work full time pretty much all (98%) earn more than 1300 euros gross in Germany - and that was in 2014, now it is 99%. 1300 euros at an average 38hr work week (1650hr standardized work year - accounting for vacation and sick days), we are talking about 10 - 11 euros per hour even for the lowest 2%full time employed people. In reality, it is the part time people who get mostly paid at minimum wage or slightly above.
this. it is not really even debatable at this point.look at the dramatic increases in immigration numbers and how fast they look to accomplish their goals. you dont need a high percentage of foreigners to dramatically effect the culture and demographic. they want "world citizens".
Nicholas Jones
That is exactly my point. Most workers already get paid way above minimum wage here. The ones who are currently getting paid the minimum wage without extras are getting exploited. Therefore the slight raises are completely justified.
Just proves my point that businesses that are complaining about the minimum wage run shitty business models or are just downright greedy.
Graph headline reads as >Percentage of fulltime employees with a monthly salary of...
Y is the percentage of employees in the respective salaries. Red is female, blue is male, yellow is the average of both sexes.
Ian Bennett
Interesting thanks.
Josiah Adams
> raises will kill exploitation elaborate, because this sure as hell won't happen. > businesses that are complaining about the minimum wage run shitty business models got to compete with those bigger German companies who have hired Indians & Chinese to work on their local minimum wages and whom are as competent with their skills as a regular German is.
Colton Williams
The issue with Germany is that minimum wage does not mean you have to pay it. Germany industries all work from slave work aka "zeitarbeit", where the companies legally hire temporary workers through agencies where workers recieve on hand much less than minimum wage. And hiring them temporary allows companies not to pay all the required by low and unions stuff, fire them easily and rehire anew or others on same conditions.
Below the nice surface, Germany is corrupt as fuck. In every field. Just look at amount of billions euro every year being written out by goverment as "wasted".
Aaron Thomas
Nice memeflag buddy.
>raises will kill exploitation I never said this. Ether your reading comprehension is utter garbage, or you have Assburgers and do not know that a nuance is.
>got to compete with those bigger German companies who have hired Indians & Chinese to work on their local minimum wages and whom are as competent with their skills as a regular German is.
I am working for one of the biggest players in Germany (and the EU) and I have yet to see my company hire indians / chinks for shitty jobs. And I do now know a single German company that does. You are full of shit and I should not even waste my time replying to your garbage posts. Maybe you should just shut up and listen when the grown ups are talking. At least we know what we are talking about.
Andrew Howard
I'm really all for raising the minimum wage and strengthening employees' rights, but it's a double-sided sword really.
Raising the standards across the board with make Germany even more attractive for migration.
Josiah Baker
>workers recieve on hand much less than minimum wage. I just felt obliged to point out that this is only natural because the minimum wage is the minimum wage before taxes, social security payments etc. You basically have to subtract around 35% to get the net wage for a German worker. Which is then transferred to their bank account.
Juan Ortiz
>I am working for one of the biggest players in Germany (and the EU) and I have yet to see my company hire indians / chinks for shitty jobs. And I do now know a single German company that does. You are full of shit and I should not even waste my time replying to your garbage posts. Maybe you should just shut up and listen when the grown ups are talking. At least we know what we are talking about. You are missing his point. Hiring Indians/chinese does not mean bringing them to Germany, it means bringing industry OUT.
Majority of large German industrial companies be it Bosch, VW, Zeiss, Sielemens, Beyer - all open local manufactures in markets they want to sell stuff. So there is no point in making cars in Germany for say China, paying huge Union forced wages and benefits, when you can just open a manufacture/assembly there.
Logan Myers
To that point, in EU Slovenia is length germany pocket manufacturing country because its more effective producing stuff anywhere, but Germany. But both Slovenia and Poland are less lucrative for that now because of Eurozone.
Justin Foster
> I never said this and what good are the raises for if the exploitation continues as Vodkanon said ? > And I do now know a single German company that does. > he's not aware where his contracted suppliers' pyramid gets their supplies oh you out of curiosity, which company/what field do you happen to work in?
Jack Adams
> So there is no point in making cars in Germany for say China, paying huge Union forced wages and benefits, when you can just open a manufacture/assembly there Exactly, and thanks to WTO tariffs & cheap shipping fees, it's easier to ship them from China to every other market where local manufacturing would be too costly, while keeping the bare minimum production in Germany to still reap some of that "made in Germany" mentality's pennies
Charles Long
Bringing industry out of Germany and hiring Germans in the domestic market are related, but this is a completely different discussion to be had. Most of the discussion in this thread so far was discussing the SMEs (Mittelstand). Because the argument keeps revolving around hurting them the most since they can not simply export their jobs to other countries. However my point is that those SMEs should be able to afford to pay the minimum wage or the business owner is incompetent.
The picture for the big players is entirely different when it comes to Asian factories. And there are more factors involved than can be covered in this thread, and I would rather stay on point and discuss the impact of the minimum wage for the majority of German workers.
I am aware that the enforcements for the minimum wage are lackluster right now, but that that not mean that concept of a minimum wage is not sound. Taxi drivers for example do not get paid when they do not drive. It is considered to be breaktime instead. However they have the option to gain tips. A packer in the logistics sector for example can not get tips and the workload is very high. Those are the kinds of jobs that need a solid minimum wage. I do agree that there are companies that abuse this via shady """union""" contracts, but those are in fact not legal.
I work in the energy sector.
Cooper Adams
> A packer in the logistics sector for example can not get tips and the workload is very high. for what reason should they be given tips? > SME's can not simply export their jobs to other countries. They sure can when it comes to getting parts, materials etc. froma broad for their own production instead of getting other SME's providing them due to time or capacity or price constrains. And don't even start with that bullshit that German SME's quality is superior over others in EU or abroad, the only reason why German ones are preferred are faster delivery & local connetion benefits in home markets. > or the business owner is incompetent how is a business incompetent is he hires two workers for the same hourly price instead of one? > I work in the energy sector green or ((("dirty")))?
Robert Sanchez
>for what reason should they be given tips? Ok. You are fucking retarded and you really can not read.
Kevin Phillips
that doesn't answer my question you "workers pitying" champagne socialist
Kevin Cruz
Germany, pretending to pay their drones who would turn up seven days a week if they could.
