The socialists in Venezuela want the bourgeoisie capitalists back. Truly the greatest timeline

realistic paintings mostly died because of photography. that's why art descended in the impressionists and post modernists. as far as heroic epics... there's constant writing and telling of those stories. LOTR, star wars, etc.

>Jow Forums is an anti-capitalist board
I can tell you have not been here long.

>le based magapede ben shapiro is redpilled and BASED

You're are the one who is new faggot, unironic libertarians here have been mocked and ridiculed for years.

you sound like a regressive leftist, user

Michelangelo was financed by a capitalist banking family you fucking faggot. The rise of Italian city states and it's cultural ramifications are pretty much what sets europe apart from the other cultures and is the spawn of the wave of technological and cultural advancement we are still riding today. These city states were significant because they were small, autonomus and ran by proto capitalists, this lead to optimal work sharing and cooperation. It is the centralized and socialist church which was holding us back, and capitalism and the free market which advanced us.
I find it quite ironic a lot of nazis idolize this period of european culture but fail to see what made it so great.

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It's funny how people hate on capitalism, until it's gone, then they beg for it to come back.

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>Netflix, McDonald's, and Fortnight
all 3 are masterful. eat shit and cry more, wagie

Then why are there economic crisis ?

Lots of reasons, the primary one is probably our one world socialism playing "plan the economy" without any personal consequences for when they fuck up.
Also our massively diluted money.

ITT: Autism Speaks

Corruption. Australia is "capitalist" but we haven't had a crisis in 27 years. USA caused the GFC because banks were loaning sub-prime mortgages to people who couldn't pay for them. Afterwards, the government bailed the banks out and indicted one person.
In Australia we deal with that differently. Recently we had a Royal Banking Commission and investigated every bank for malpractice to prevent economic crises.

Also we don't use quantitative easing anymore

economic cycles ?

market adjusting ?

central banking fucking the free market ?

Some natsoc newfags are truly obnoxious.

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Basically this. Anybody who professes to be against capitalism should get a rope.

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fuck off socialists scum, you will die with the rest of the commies

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>He doesnt know that he was financed by the Catholic Church to do art

t.

Fucking SEETHING

Notice how quickly the definition of capitalism shrinks to "anything with private property lol" as soon as the caps get thirsty?

Some of his most famous works were commissioned by the Medici family

t. product of the australian """education""" system

>No one is going write a heroic epic, paint a masterful painting, or create an inspiring marble statue when Netflix, McDonald's, and Fortnight exist.
Nonsense. No real artist is stopped by mass consumption enterprise, that is an excuse for the ones with a small spirit. And stop trying to define what Jow Forums is for what position you hold.

Depends on if you view the medici as clerics or merchants.
Notice how the socialist never even gives a definition of capitalism.
How can I change a definition that was never even stated?

That's a yikes from me bro

>WE ARE STARVING TO DEATH, HELP ME MCDONALD'S!!!

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All Netflix originals are awful save a few and they are missing many old films.

>We don't use quantitative easing
>Kevin Rudd literally have everyone in the country free money

Of course you would say that burger boy

Do you agree that the gov should have regulated those banks giving out subprimes then ?
And what do you mean by diluted money ?

Explain all of those please

Capitalism is defined as the private ownership of the means of production. I've never seen anybody disagree with this.

You're an idiot. Rudd didn't have the RBA print more money, he used tax receipts and loans from outside the RBA (such as foreign loans).

There will always be economic crisis. Its just a way the market self regulates.

The problem is central banks and governments trying to regulate the market. Every single time they try to regulate the market the crisis is worst. They should just let the market be free and work alone. They should the people decide what to buy and how much for it. Instead of keeping the interest rates low. What we are seing in EU now is exactly that. The ECB is keeping the interest rates low and that creates a false prospect for investors and the market itself . Sooner or later there will be a huge crisis again.

Here an easy explanation.
youtube.com/watch?v=ATSfw0cvh9o

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I agree that people are responsible for their own decisions and are free to buy stuff or work at a place, it's free will , but economic crises are caused by the elite and it's the lower classes who suffer for them the most.

Also the subprime crisis was caused by banks giving out subprime loans to people. Isn't it caused by capitalism ? The state could have prevented this if they intervened

I really wish I could see an honest interview with Maduro in the future, like:

Q: hey maduro-san, how do you view the state of venezuela at the end of your regime.
A: i think it was a complete disaster. . i really wish things hadn't turned out like this.

Q: why didn't you stop it in 20XX?
A: i thought everything would sort itself out in the end. i was wrong and at some point i just couldn't stop it anymore so i pretended everything was ok and blamed external factors and my enemies.

Q: is there anything you would like to tell the people now that you have been imprisioned?
A: venezuelan people, i have failed you. i have destroyed families and robbed the future of your children, what i did is unforgivable. i ask of you to be strong, to have hope and to strive to make venezuela a better place every day so that you may right all my wrongs and rebuild my beloved country. i beg that you have mercy on me.

Wrong.

Economic crises is a cause of the market adjusting what makes it worse is exactly the central banks and government intervention.

I advise you to see this to understand what is going on:

youtube.com/watch?v=0ez8vKJKE9A

>Do you agree that the gov should have regulated those banks giving out subprimes then?
No, not really, they shouldn't have bailed them out either. Also they shouldn't force me to interact with banks, that's pretty fucking perfidious if you ask me. This is not even adressing the fact that you present the government and the banks as two completely seperate entities just because they quarrel a little from time to time, when in fact they are very obviously in an unholy union out to fuck us all.
By diluted money I mean the global policy of continually printing and issuing money, which inflates it constantly, i.e. diluting it.
It's private ownership, not just of the means of production. My bed is technically a means of production, since I won't be able to make hammers in my workshop as efficiently if I don't sleep in my bed.
So yeah, it literally is "private property". Marx added that little thing about the means of production. Just because you follow his little gospel doesn't mean we all do.
Yeah, a King owns his lands and the people who live on it. He just rents it out to a bunch of dukes and earls. Private property and thus capitalism. Thus most of our past economic systems can be considered capitalist.

>your economic system is bad because its all over the world
>my economic system is good even though it failed horrifically like communism which I hate
hmmmm

>It's private ownership, not just of the means of production.
Even Marxism allows "private property" of certain things, as long as no profit is made from them. They call it "personal property".
>you follow his little gospel
?

It wasn't reeeeeal socialism you know.

Sounds alarmist to me. In times of economic crisis , wealthy people have resources to rely on but poor people have nothing. Should the government just let them die because crises are part of capitalism daily life ?

For what purpose would money be continually printed ? Surely there's a reason.

And about the banks, in that case that's corruption right ? The US government knew what was going on but did nothing. And what do you mean interacting with banks ? Are you an ancap?

See who controls central banks and you understand why.
Poor people just need to work more and invest wisely instead of buying shit they dont need. I'm tired of seeing people who don't earn much but have a better car than me or a better phone or things like that. It's their fault. I repeat what makes a crisis worse is the government intervention. If they let the market to be free has it should the poor people could earn more money and have a better living standard

And no one is going back.

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There's no limit to the "poor people should work more" argument desu
>Have to live with 6 other roommates because of capitalistic crisis
People should work more desu
>Have to work 3 jobs to support yourself
People should work more
>Can't have kids because it's too expensive
People should work more
>Can't even support yourself with 3 jobs and roommates anymore , dies
People should work more

>Even Marxism allows "private property" of certain things, as long as no profit is made from them. They call it "personal property".
Yes, because even they can't deny natural human behaviour completely. Not sure what you're trying to get at here. More private property = move along the "capitalist" side of the political gradient, less private property = move along the "socialist" side.
Hitler and Mussolini were both socialists by the way.
>For what purpose would money be continually printed? Surely there's a reason.
What they told us in school was that it allowed for more investments (which is true but retarded, it incentivises more bad investments, which is never mentioned), and more control over the economy by the state. So yeah it's a power grab and nothing else.Historically it was also done by citizens (when money was still made out of precious metals), but in either case it is an act of enrichment by the currency diluter at the expense of everyone else who uses this money, there was the death penalty on it in quite a few countries.
Here are some examples, notice the negative and extremely harsh reaction towards the diluters:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_Riot
haaretz.com/jewish/.premium-1278-all-english-jews-arrested-by-crown-1.5291031

Change your vote to someone that supports free market and capitalism and you will see that your life is improving.

Because at the end of the day wherever you have free market and capitalism you have a better life and conditions.

Look at the eastern countries for example since they kick out communism until they embraced capitalism. Estonia for example

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So I read a bit about the European Central bank and from what I understand they mad southern European countries populations in order to make France and Germany more prosperous toward Investors ? And also they invested in stuff like Danone , Volkswagen, Nestlé, and pushed néolibéral reforms.Are the bce our guys ?

>Are the bce our guys ?

You're joking right ?

>The culture of consumerism was only able to rise because of the central banking, central banking bank central banking bankers.
ftfy

We all know the Cubans are pulling the strings they are way too good at revisionist history to admit fault.

Shit they have the whole world believing Cuba is a great country despite having to leech off Venezuela and starting a glasnost as soon as Castro croaked. They'll go down with the ship.

No, they have been forcing European countries to become more liberal , isn't it what you wanted ? Damn , this is complicated

>they have been forcing European countries to become more liberal
No they haven't. Also plerase excplain what " they mad southern European countries populations in order to make France and Germany more prosperous toward Investors" means.

I am not sure why AnCaps and Third Positionists are locked in this is/or death struggle.

We agree that capitalism works better than communism. The Third Positionist or Traditionalist view is that it should serve people - that is to say, have some social aspects mixed in. The AnCap one is let communities and people sort that out for themselves.

I find it funny that Antifa people try to knock over Tucker Carlson's lawn ornaments when if they listened to him, they would have heard him say "Capitalism is not a religion and a country has to put its people first" a number of times.

I find Hoppe really quite interesting but sometimes I err on thinking that AnCapism is a kind of Spergism because it presupposes a whole bunch of things that are necessary for a libertarian community.

Third Position seems to want to provide a similar outcome for people, but via the State. The downside of this is that freedom of speech or peaceful assembly (which are essential to functioning societies) are not guaranteed.

The discussion maybe shouldn't be about who is morer bettererest but perhaps how to resolve those particular tensions.

>Not sure what you're trying to get at here.
Just adding a bit of trivia.
>More private property = move along the "capitalist" side of the political gradient, less private property = move along the "socialist" side.
Indeed.
>Hitler and Mussolini were both socialists by the way.
Hitler was a Prussian (non-Marxian) socialist, Mussolini a former socialist, hence why there was no shortage of private property in either of their countries.

The ECB basically has the all the countries in the EU by the economic balls. Don't want to support unlimited mass illegal migration by third world peasants? Fine, your banks get fucked. I mean that, in addition to the usual jew tricks that central banks use to fuck everyone over.

Third pos is basically monarcho-communism, the exact polar opposite of ancap.

Idk , I read it on an article. Basically they forced sanctions on Italy and Greece to become more liberal so investors regain confidence in Germany and France's state of things

You know , I think the elite made up all this complicated bullshit so people woulndt revolt. All I see is that wealthy people are stacking up money while poor people have even less. The rest is double language to keep fucking them in the ass

Ecb have never forced mass migrations to Europe , it's the European governments who do it by themselves , ie Switzerland taking up 2000 Eritreans lately

I don't know if I agree with that. Because there is still a lot of private ownership, particularly of capital and the means of production if we're going down that route, it's just that producers are accountable to the entity of the State (as the People, ideally - although I'm not saying that's always a great thing) as well as the Market.

Yes you have Portugal was paying 16% of interest rates do deutsch bank in the crisis

And greece was paying 27%.

Basically we were working to save your banks

I think there is something positive in non-Marxist socialism. Socialism pre-dates Marxism. It cannot work with Marxism which requires a certain blind totality. People should be aware that with Industrialisation and the benefits of the Enlightenment, people could see there was a disconnect between the rich and poor - not just a material gap - but a loss of the noblesse oblige. I think in some ways we're in a similar time.

They've harassed Hungary multiple times already. I think they harassed Poland too.

> it's just that producers are accountable to the entity of the State (as the People, ideally - although I'm not saying that's always a great thing) as well as the Market.
How exactly is that supposed to work?

Without just flipping the question, what happens when a corporation profits to the great detriment of people (like opioid producers, or bankers receiving bailouts)? There is, you hope, some regulation, because the market isn't providing what it needs - it's killing people in that instance.

oh, sweet summer child.

Just exactly who bails out the bankers? Similarly with opioids, who is paying for them? (hint: not the free market)

The only reason Mussolini was a former socialist is because the italian socialists became bolshevist and kicked him out for being nationalist. He still believed in the socilaist principles. And yes, they were both socialists, and I am aware socialist politics predate Marx.
The point is, both of them peddled the tired olf "the good of the people" shite, which all socialists do and which is the root cause of all the problems with socialism.
So how does paying more money to a central institution make you more liberal?
So they were playing with a big pile of money the local governments were fleecing out of their population? Doesn't sound like they were making it more liberal to me.

>Neoliberal imperialist newspaper finds one worker that is against the revolution of the working class
>See, workers need parasites to suck them dry and get the surplus value from their work!!!
Hahahaha, no.

Without the cancer of individualism, capitalism would be a fairly stable system.
Oh yes, Prussian socialism solves the issue by leaving private property untouched, but providing a sound ethical ideal.

Hello Sargon

Im just saying that the ecb forced southern europe to rescue german and frech banks by screwing with the interest loans. I mean for god sakes 16% ? 27% ? The deutsche bank survived the crisis because of that. What the governments of Portugal Greece spain etc should have done was to simply let our banks go bankrupt instead of making huge loans to rescue banks.

Tee Bee Aich.
Empirical thought is the reason you enjoy all the conveniences of modern scientific development.

Before you razz an entire schema of thought, picture your life if that schema had never existed at all.

You'd be in a damp pit-house tugging on a fire-strap right now.

Well, that's a framework of people protected by laws enforced by the state and that's common with varying efficacy across a range of systems.

I actually think you can have your low tax Minarchist paradise and still deliver at least basic prevention and maintenance healthcare, decent basic and vocational education and a mixture of public and private utilities and places. You just need to delineate between real investments, like a garbage bin, and future potential lossmakers, like Gender studies. Social policy once divorced from Marxism is a doddle.

Empirical thought is helpful in natural sciences but entirely useless and counter productive in social sciences.

I agree 100%

>muh marxism

Crying about marxism is the true hallmark of a brainlet NPC. Imagine being so deluded you think the elite who own masses of land and investments and live comfortable lives of luxury are trying to propagate an ideology that calls for the working class to take it all away from them and have them executed.

You're right of course, we should never look at any statistics to understand social dynamics.
Records of birth rates or crimes for example. Who needs them?

That's rather direct. I'm saying that any form of social policy that isn't essentially "starve in a fire" is associated with Marxism, that it wasn't always so, and that it is perfectly reasonable as part of any conservative agenda from what the Tories would have accepted in 1960 to full Third Positionism to arraign the system in service to the Nation, not the other way around. Essentially we agree.

>Well, that's a framework of people protected by laws enforced by the state and that's common with varying efficacy across a range of systems.
Central banking doesn't protect anyone except bankers. Specifically it protects them from consequences and allows them to rob everyone else.

>I actually think you can have your low tax Minarchist paradise and still deliver at least basic prevention and maintenance healthcare, decent basic and vocational education and a mixture of public and private utilities and places. You just need to delineate between real investments, like a garbage bin, and future potential lossmakers, like Gender studies. Social policy once divorced from Marxism is a doddle.
Eh, well charter schools are acceptable, if we cut the numbers in half relative to how many public schools there are currently. Charter trade schools are fine too. But no, fuck 'free' healthcare. Healthcare in the US was affordable until the government shat it up with medicare and medicaid. Give them an inch and next you'll be paying for gender retarded faggots to cut their dicks off.

There's a good reason why marxism and all of this postmodern cultural fraud is always being sold together. Both of those things open the door to unlimited government corruption and disenfranchisement of the citizens.

What? Its not so exactly. We are anti jew but not anti capital, and not anti "elitist". Fascism and liberitarianism has in common that we both want elites, the best of the best of humans to rise up and lead so to speak.

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I really wish I could see him flayed alive, boiling oil poured on his raw flesh, that donkey bastard.

I live in a country that doesn't really have the same do or die approach to healthcare, and I strongly dislike Marxism.

We live in a system that doesn't guarantee that Central Bankers accountable, we agree. Third Position proposes - I say proposes - to correct this.

But in your system of individuals, who would stand to benefit from the most successfully individualistic by following them?

>But in your system of individuals

but its not, there will be groups of elites man. Just a class system where you will be barred out from really.

I don't see it as an actual solution. It isn't based on facts like economics or political science.

Define "successfully individualistic". Honestly I don't see libertarianism as being necessarily individualistic. Intellectual individualism is both necessary and good, but culture is something that results from like minded people working their asses off to create something greater than themselves. Without individualism there would be no science, no technology, no great art, and nowhere for culture to come from. Individualism is the beginning but not the end of culture.

Hierarchy (that is not just predatory or cannibalistic) is natural. I just don't fully comprehend what causes other people to acknowledge the heirarchy in an AnCap system or obey it on the level of Nation - after all the heirarchy in that system is just the person with the most money.

I disagree. Because legislation, or action must follow a proposition. So to say "it's not based on facts like economics or political science" is a bit of an offhand answer. A Third Positionist government would presumably do quite a bit to hold the central banks accountable, presumable with some very theatrical executions.

the most money, most virtue, most honor, an elite has a lot of good traits you know, not just money. And it happens to be that a lot of people have a lot of good traits, and a good mindset who then wish to pursue money, and group together. A natural elite, is pretty neat to have. Probably would ease your uneducated mind a bit too rest knowing that you can just stick in your pit of shit for your whole life.

Whenever I look at this meme template I can't help but remember that in Greece we had a prime minister that actually got injured trying this. Link: greece.greekreporter.com/2012/07/10/george-papandreou-falls-from-bicycle-again/

not professors of social sciences, that's for sure.
Looking at correlation between race, birth rates, and crime is racist and should get you imprisoned.