1 of the trademarks of western civilization is that never before we put more care in the individual than any other civilization before us.
But we have seen groups that want to go back to a more collective society (Marxists, Fascists).
We can all agree that a society where individuals matter too much (The ancap fantasy) that it doesn't work on the long term for civilization, but we can also agree that too much focus on the collective we lose individual rights (Free speech) in favour of the group. And we also see that collectivism often is only sustainable under tyranical rule.
Don't you believe a individual has a responsibility to the larger group.
Christian Morris
There is no such thing as the "collective". It's simply a collection of INDIVIDUALS.
I honestly am starting to think there's a genetic difference between libertarian minds and the rest.
We think in terms of individuals and individual achievement, free will and the capcity for change within ourselves.
Fascists, commies, liberals, conservatives etc all think in terms of hivemind groupthink collectivst shit. You guys literally cannot wrap your heads around the philosophical concepts that we libertarians take for granted and so you call for a government to come and fix all your problems, which we have observed time and time again to be a huge failure.
Cameron Hernandez
Racial identity should be the context within which the outstanding individual is honored and recognized. This is how it was for at least 1000 years in the white countries of the world.
You have a country that is all white... wouldn't have it any other way... and holds other races and people in vague contempt. Its outstanding individuals are lionized, honored, and held up for example to everyone else.
Henry Ramirez
What you're saying is true in a way, but a problem i notice with libertarians is that they care too much about the truth
"Caring too much about the truth? Is that a bad thing?"
Yes it is. Society doesn't work if we don't believe in a system that might not be the most efficient for really succesful people. The goal of society is to lift up the individuals from all kinds of life.
Collectivism doesn't care about the truth at all which is probably even worse. For a collective state to work there needs to be the assumption that everyone is equal, which is a lie.
Gavin Cook
>This is how it was for at least 1000 years in the white countries of the world.
Yeah because life was so much better 1000 years ago. Idiot.
Nathan Walker
This isn't even true. The West INVENTED Nationalism with the Treaty of Westphalia, the idea that nations as coherent groups existed and deserved the right to self determination was a Western idea.
What you perceive to be a dichotomous relationship between individualism and collectivism isn't real. Individualism as a concept can only exist within a society that has a coherent sense of self and a lack of internal conflict. This precipitates a culture with a sense of trust and mutual respect--it is only within such societies that an individual's rights can ever truly rose to the fore of any political discussion.
In fractured and multi-ethnic societies without a coherent sense of self, each group's nascent sense of tribalism naturally comes to the fore unless actively suppressed--and the result of this is always uneven levels of suppression, resulting in some groups remaining coherent and then dominating the others through nepotism and bloc action. This is a problem so old that Aristotle described it. Multicultural and multiracial societies are NEVER stable and NEVER respect the individual.
So you see the dichotomy is an illusion. Collectivism and Individualism are not opposites but aspects of a functional society. The Nation gives rise to the individual, not in principle but as a function of its coherence. The less coherent a nation's conditions are the less able to respect the rights of the individual it is.
I call this the Peterson Fallacy--the idea that by deharmonizing a society's sense of collective self, one somehow promotes individualism. The opposite is demonstrably true.
Needs to adjust with the situation. In some situations, you better follow orders or get shot. When there's no need, you should be left alone to do what you will.
Michael Adams
Individual freedoms within a homogeneous collective as long as said freedoms don't overstep that of the group. collective #1 individual #2 outsider #3
Caleb Lee
Nationalism has existed since ancient times, what the west created was political overlays for it. A nation ceases to be a nation only when it goes extinct, not when it's arbitrarily defined borders get erased/never form.
Aaron Rogers
I really like this observation, it's true in many ways. How was the individual viewed in Nazi Germany though? I don't know enough about the time to make a fair conclusion.
Carter Reed
>How was the individual viewed in Nazi Germany As a worker. A cog within a mechanism of cogs.
You're right that there's a difference between your brains and the rest--you always lose, and you always rationalize why you lose as being because you just haven't repeated your shallow talking points enough times. You do not understand that no matter how many times you repeat the points, the ten niggers you explain it to still have a sense of identity and will still vote in their own interests, because high-principled libertarianism doesn't serve their interests.
Libertarianism is the ultimate cringe ideology. It's literally self defeating, if I could hit a magic button TODAY to turn every American into a hard Libertarian, and I hit it, in six weeks the entire third world would've moved to the United States, and six weeks from then, they'd have simply voted the country into Allende-style Socialism and you'd still be there giggling like a retard as they raised your taxes by 40% to pay for their gibs, because you don't understand how people who aren't Libertarians think. We all fucking understand you, it's YOU who don't understand us, which is why the country has become more and more totalitarian over time, because rather than cooperate to prevent the root cause of the escalation of tyranny, you clamp your hands over your ears and LA LA LA LA LA because your idiotic obsession with ideological purity is what lost you control of your nation and your future to begin with.
It's like the buy in fallacy except you get to buy in for the rest of us too.
Adam Robinson
>I honestly am starting to think there's a genetic difference between libertarian minds and the rest.
Aren't there more than a couple of studies that strongly suggest that people's politics are determined by their personality?
Add on top of that the fact that most people do not THINK about their politics and you go a long way to explaining the prevalence of cognitive dissonance.
Yes. You have a different brain. A retarded one. Groups are stronger and achievem more than individuals. Thats why individualism is promoted by the elites: so they, as groups, face a powerless collection of individuals. If you want to know what is more retarded than a commie, just look at your flag.
Jaxon Hernandez
The father has a responsibility to the family
James Perry
Wow, this guy is crushing it..
Tyler Sanders
>I honestly am starting to think there's a genetic difference between libertarian minds and the rest. I was a commie, when younger.
Owen Taylor
Collectivism is actually more promoted by the elites though. They want us to tribal because it's easier to control a group than to control different kinds of individuals. 1 way you're right that the elites promote individualism because they don't want certain groups to form (White groups), but they rather want the idealogical groups (Alt Right, Commies).
An individual with a sense of group identity, but is also aware of his individuality is an unstoppable force.
Hunter Kelly
When the state with all its taxes, debt, inflation and sponsored corporations eats more than 25% of the total income of its country it means you are fucked.
Noah Bailey
You are the retard here, socialist trash.
David Peterson
An ad-hominem is an argument BY insult. Mine was an argument that contained an insult. Those are discrete things and one is not fallacious in the way that, say, conflating totally different ideologies because they do not share one ideological tenant in particular with you would be.
Like implying that fascists, communists and liberals, and essentially every other form of government to ever actually exist are all identical because you are only capable of measuring ideological positions based on the single arbitrary tenant of "collectivism" which, as I've already expressed, isn't even a logically sound principle.
>which we have observed time and time again to be a huge failure. You define "failure" as any result that is not some sort of platonic ideal of utopia. I define failure as losing conflicts. Libertarians are literally the only political group I can think of that has literally never won a political battle, ever. You're like the Surrender Ideology, you refuse to take any action that might actually gain you political ground because your sole ideological tenant is refusing to organize effectively against your enemies.
>no argument >triggered Dismissed, nigger. No. Elites imported foreigners then promoted tribalism among them, and individualism for us. And now that our societies become nicely devided, its individualism for everyone. Except themselves oc.
Jason Garcia
Omg, please tell me you have a blog somewhere.
Dominic Ortiz
Ultra collectivism. If you don't support the best interests of the White race you get the bullet.
Gabriel King
Thank you for this explanation it really explains the necessity of nationalism in a coherent matter.
Ian Harris
So every person becomes someone just to help your idealogy? No free speech allowed?
That is tyranical. Who is in charge of deciding what's in our best interests?
Asher Edwards
No need for arguments, collectivist piece of shit, as you haven't provided any either. You are just insulting people who aren't collectivist. Yes, our brains are wired differently, we aren't made to live together
Oliver Wilson
>hurr durr more triggered than ever ? Collectivist ? Yes my nigger. Tell me how as a proud individual you lower your eyes each time you cross a group of niggers. Go back to jvc now little cuck.
Blake Reyes
>You can't be assertive or have group identity if you care about the individual
This is retarded stormfag rhetoric.
Luis Rodriguez
These are polar opposites colgate nigger. You can care about individuals, but not at the cost of the common group. Thats the socialist part in natsoc. But its not individualism, its solidarity...as a group.
Julian Wilson
The whole dialectic about collectivism vs individualism is a farce.
Individualism is a property of white western civilization. It can only exist in a western ethnostate.
The desire to live in an individualist society MEANS having a desire to remove all the non-whites from your country. Many people can't put these two things together because of fake rationalizations and propaganda that we've all been fed. We're in a state of war right now. Our countries have been taken by invaders. We need to expel them.
Jeremiah Campbell
This guy said it better than me.
Dominic Gonzalez
The topic of the thread is about the ideal balance not the balance we should seek RIGHT NOW.
Many ethnostates in the past have chosen the collective approach while a nation like the United States have chosen the more individual based approach since the start.
The fact that a nation is ethnically the same doesn't guerantee that it can care about the individual.
Brandon Peterson
When there are no niggers, the balance is about right.
Noah James
>The fact that a nation is ethnically the same doesn't guerantee that it can care about the individual. Right, but the context of the terms you're using is in the modern world where we have multicultural societies... and we have people petitioning for white people to just lay down and die.
I agree that having white people is not a sufficient condition, but it is a necessary one.
Personally I think the bill of rights in USA is a good guide for where the line is.
Jaxon Martin
I agree. The United states was the best country in the world ever created, too bad it got fucked over by jews rapidly at the end of the 19th century.
Andrew Miller
All governments will eventually trend yo expansionism and regulationism that errodes those values of individualism. Poor people keep using the government as a weapon to save themselves with instead of face the consequences of their actions with dignity.
