Free will is an illusion and everyone is indoctrinated by some culture, ideology, or religion

>Boring Truism.
>German flag
I know right. You fuckers never had free will anyway.

>You can't imagine how someone could prove it so your tiny brain assumes proof isn't possible and shuts down.
Wrong. You can't prove it, and your brain has already shut down.
>Congrats, you're a sub-100 retard.
Projection bores me.

I'm living proof of free will. My family is full of literal degenerate scumbags. The women are psychotic and delusional. The men are severe alcoholics and all of them die either young or old and in pain. All of my cousins have been to prison, in and out of detox for hard drugs.

I am the only person in my family that I know of to not follow my family's path. I grew up in a piss poor white trash neighborhood. The jobs in my area sucked, so I started freelancing from home online writing articles, mostly for Indians. I saved up enough and got the fuck out of this town. I've never been to detox, been to prison and I'm not an alcoholic nor have I ever stolen from a family member. I don't dress like I just won a $20 gift card to Walmart.

I didn't follow the same religion, ideology or culture that I grew up in or that of my family or even my town. If I had, I would be in and out of prison just like everyone else and I would probably have cirrhosis like so many other people in my family. None of them even have the ambition to help themselves.

>I can prove you write our brains generate action potentials some 350ms before we are aware of conscious intention
Yes. I know.

>Free will is an illusion

You should call up the Nobel Committee and demand your prize, because you have to develope a working model of consciousness to know this

Free will is illusory its a mechanism were we attribute actions to the self and so feel like we have agency the conscious mind just pieces together what we have done after we do it read up on self perception we are all programmed robots from 1 to 7 years is when you download the program you will be using for the rest of your life unless there is serious impetus to change our habits we don't.

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>I'm living proof of free will.
You're as much a proof of free will as the rotation of an electric fan is proof of free will.
>I am the only person in my family that I know of to not follow my family's path.
Genetics babe. Your genes, combined with the culture you were exposed to, helped you move out. There is nothing inherently special about what you did.
>I didn't follow the same religion, ideology or culture that I grew up in or that of my family or even my town.
There you go. Evolution was checking if someone with a different genome will make it, and you made it.

Oh and my sister is a literal furry. Not joking. She's obsessed with wolves, she doesn't shower and never changes her clothes. She's worn the same disgusting smelly shirt for years. She sleeps in it, she somehow never had to go to school and just lives with her mother at 21 years old. She's never dated, barely speaks coherent English and just lays in bed drinking Pepsi liter bottles all day.

>Prove me wrong.
I choose to disagree with you.
You're welcome.

>because you have to develope a working model of consciousness to know this
I work in Neuroscience. It's called computational theory of mind. But most of our models are assumptions anyway. Most of the brain's decision making process is unobservable. What we do know, from our experiments, is that the Brain shows electrical activity before a person is conscious of their decision. The same thing these anons referred to
For at least two decades, neuroscientists haven't believed in free will. But there's no point in disseminating it to society, BECAUSE PEOPLE CONFUSE FREE WILL WITH MORAL RESPONSIBILITY.

Are you studying psychology too? How are the girls on your class I've red pilled a Bulgarian model and we've gone out I fucking love psychology you learn how to account for your autism and seriously make persuading people easy. Mindfulness meditation is all you really need for psychological well being that is if you are not an "atypical". SSRI are their to numb you balls not to cure or even manage depression.

>I work in Neuroscience.
Who gives a uck faggot, go post about it on Facebook
>It's called computational theory of mind. But most of our models are assumptions anyway.
>theory
>assumptions

So, it's more Jewish bullshit.

t. Shlomo NPCStein

Bullshit, get off your ass and do something, TODAY!
Ballots are being shredded!
We need to block the trucks!
Today, at 10AM!
Parkland, Florida!
Any able bodied user would be a national hero!

>I choose to disagree with you.
You didn't choose. Your brain refuses to let go of the idea of free-will because of the amount of time and effort it's invested in it.

YOUR RESPONSE MAKES IT SO OBVIOUS TO ME THAT YOU ATTRIBUTE YOUR SUCCESS (OR LACK OF IT) TO YOUR OWN EFFORTS. THAT IS WHY YOUR BRAIN CHOOSES TO BELIEVE IN FREE WILL - EASIER TO GET THE DOPAMINE CIRCUITS GOING WHEN YOU BELIEVE THAT WHATEVER YOU DO AFFECTS YOUR LIFE.

But we both know the truth. You're merely a singleton in a vast country who needs farmers, electricians, architects, and various other people to survive, let alone thrive.

IF YOU GAVE UP ON THE IDEA OF FREE WILL NOW - YOU'D BE IN PERPETUAL DEPRESSION.

>You're welcome.

No free will = no morality = no punishment

No one really believes that free will doesn't exist, not even OP.
Chances are there are things that make OPs blood boil and thirst for revenge or severe punishment.
Which is completely irrational, because why would you be angry at that kiddie diddler? He has no free will, it's not his fault!

Without free will nothing you or anyone else does has any meaning, which is a recipe for disaster, no person that lives with that thought ingrained is ever successful in life.

>Are you studying psychology too?
Neuroscience. Done with Ph.D. Doing post-doc.
>How are the girls on your class
My cohort had 10 Ph.D. students. 3 were girls. Pretty ok people. Lost touch with all three.
> I've red pilled a Bulgarian model and we've gone out I fucking love psychology you learn how to account for your autism and seriously make persuading people easy.
Pic related.
>SSRI are their to numb you balls not to cure or even manage depression.
I don't know why seratonin manipulating drugs are even sold on the market. Seratonin controls your sleep cycles which in turn control practically everything about you.

The human brain accumulates plaque like substances when it operates for a prolonged time. All the burgers and unhealthy food we eat carry bad fat and other harmful substances to the brain. The brain has to sleep to remove all the impurities.

THAT IS THE EVOLUTIONARY FUNCTION OF SLEEP - BUT BIG PHARMA WON'T ADVERTISE THAT ELSE ALL THEIR SERATONIN MANIPULATORS WILL NOT BE SOLD.

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>Who gives a uck faggot, go post about it on Facebook
Then why the fuck are you here? Fagget?
>So, it's more Jewish bullshit.
Yes Ivan. Everything you disagree with is Jewish. I'm not Jewish, but you're certainly a brainlet.

>Bullshit, get off your ass and do something, TODAY!
Why?
>Ballots are being shredded!
I'm not a Republican.
>We need to block the trucks!
Why?
>Today, at 10AM!
Why?
>Parkland, Florida!
Why?
>Any able bodied user would be a national hero!
Why?

>Says free will is an illusion
>Is a liberal trying to excuse his life
Ah, my mistake, carry on.

>No free will = no morality = no punishment
THIS IS SOOOOO WRONG AND IT IS PRECISELY BECAUSE OF RETARDS LIKE YOU THAT WE IN NEUROSCIENCE ABSTAIN FROM DISCUSSING THE LACK OF FREE WILL.

Lack of free will does not imply lack of morality or responsibility. Even if we assumed that all of us were automatons, it is logical to only keep the automatons that don't destroy the system - BECAUSE IT IS IN THE INTEREST OF ALL OTHER AUTOMATONS TO DO SO.

LACK OF FREE WILL IS COMPATIBLE WITH CULPABILITY - BUT NOT TO LOW IQ AUTISTIC KRAUT CUNTS.

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She's sounds like most of Jow Forums's ideal waifu.

>Wait shit, did you just CHOOSE to do something!?
>N-no muh no free will, this isn't possible!
>How does making choices matter if you need to eat and shit?!!
>No, you're cognitive dissonant!
Lmao, literally seething, I have also chosen to adopt a cat, without anybody telling me to do so.
Where's your "no free will" now.
You have been disproved, it's your free will to accept that :).

Agreed I've basically never had a unique thought in my life. I've realised the true free-thinkers are super genius' who change the world and everyone else is just adopting thoughts based on their own judgement.
The way in which people make decisions as well is entirely governed by outside forces. I think acknowledging that you are unexceptional is so important for deciding what you truly believe/think. Examine all possibilities with as little bias as you can manage, really difficult.

>Is a liberal trying to excuse his life
Evolution will not allow everyone to follow the same ideology. It will mix and match to see who wins out. Looks like you faggets are losing right now.
>Ah, my mistake, carry on.
Butthurt much?

Just because reality is bound by a therotical limit of possibilities doesn't mean that free will is an illusion, unless your some afro communist ghoul who thinks your mortality means you're a slave.

ITT OP is a literally seething /leftypol/ Jewish propagandist promoting rebranded Solypsism/Satanism. Sage and move on

>Wait shit, did you just CHOOSE to do something!?
>N-no muh no free will, this isn't possible!
>How does making choices matter if you need to eat and shit?!!
>No, you're cognitive dissonant!
Dutch sperging at its finest.
>I have also chosen to adopt a cat
Yes, of course. It was you and no one else. You were never influenced by any culture. You lived your entire life under a rock and one decided to adopt a cat. Oh my god. How could I be so wrong about you?
>without anybody telling me to do so.
How did you know cats exist in the first place? How did you know you can "ADOPT" them? How did you know where to find a cat?

No one told you anything, right? How did you know all these things? Were you born with this information?

Fuck me. You must be God.
>Where's your "no free will" now.
I don't have any free will. I've already admitted that.
>You have been disproved, it's your free will to accept that :).
Kek. You're just dying for some intellectual masturabation. Aren't you. Pic related.

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>I've realised the true free-thinkers are super genius' who change the world and everyone else is just adopting thoughts based on their own judgement.
Even super geniuses are influenced by the ideologies left behind by those NPCs who came before them.

What if a state that does not have the best interest of its people in mind is determining what our moral responsibilities are? For the English are being told breeding themselves out of existence is moral obligation. We need to red pill the masses and make them more self aware.

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>We need to red pill the masses and make them more self aware.

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Based and Redpilled.

Please tell brother what are your thoughts on pineal gland calcification? Where is all the research on how "brain sand" affects our cognition? We know floride can contribute to its formation but there seems to be little motivation for finding out what changes having a lump of limestone forming around a gland in your brain does to you.

Can you feel it??? The next Major, event Horizon happening!
>a mass global level change, in your world
Maybe martial law??? Maybe a false flag of epic scale.
>these people think of you as slave cattle, and cattle dont get guns
They want your guns!!! And will do ANYTHING to seize them
youtu.be/qnOcUnJL004

Its HAPPENING!!

>If you know stuff you can not make free choices anymore.
>Implying.
I see that you keep choosing to not accept the fact that free will exists, yet you choose to keep fighting facts.
I'm glad to have shown you the irony in your postings, happy learning user.

>Please tell brother what are your thoughts on pineal gland calcification?
Result of society's dietary choices. Though perhaps fluoride is not exactly dietary.
> Where is all the research on how "brain sand" affects our cognition?
No one wants to tackle the hard questions. We're funded by the government. We do what the government approves. If we start tackling important questions, the tap will run dry.
>We know floride can contribute to its formation but there seems to be little motivation for finding out what changes having a lump of limestone forming around a gland in your brain does to you.
Cognition is more sensitive to stimulants and depressants. Sure, in the long run the pineal gland will damage your cognition, but it's in the long run. If you focus on the long run, but don't take care of yourself in the short run, it is useless anyway.

>Can you feel it??? The next Major, event Horizon happening!
Even horizons keep happening all the time. You're just becoming aware of it now.

>I see that you keep choosing to not accept the fact that free will exists
Are you sure I'm choosing? Can I not be programmed to reject free will?
> yet you choose to keep fighting facts.
Perhaps you're programmed to accept whatever your told.
>happy learning user.
You're welcome.

I too used to reject free will when I was 17. Keep on questioning. Keep on observing. If you can't acknowledge the foundations of free will within yourself, you are not fully self-aware yet. But you will be.

"You didn't notice, but your brain did"

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Free will fundimentally is metacognition awareness of awareness it is a higher regulatory function of the brain it reflects on itself to get a sense if it's current state is in conjunction with it's current goals.

Free will is an illusion because sin corrupts the will to the point where it isn't free.

>and that's a good thing

Reality is bounded by one possibility. You just don't have enough information to know what it is so you rely on probabilities based on your limited knowledge of the state of the universe.

>Free will fundimentally is metacognition awareness of awareness it is a higher regulatory function of the brain it reflects on itself to get a sense if it's current state is in conjunction with it's current goals.
You could not be more on the target.

A significant question in our research has been the simulation of consciousness using computer simulation. Can we develop a model for consciousness as applied to a computer?

The answer is yes. Consider a computer that takes input from the environment, processes it and generates some output. Here, the input can be the human senses and the output can be actions. What we have now is a simple automaton.

In order to simulate consciousness, we reroute the computer's output as a "SECONDARY INPUT" but in a summarized fashion. So THE COMPUTER NOW OBSERVES THE OUTPUT IT GENERATES IN ADDITION TO THE INPUT THAT GENERATED IT.

Consciousness is merely trying to deduce the decision rules that govern you. Just like the computer, we try to deduce how and why we make decisions. This helps us modify our decision rules - but on a narrow path.

THE COMPUTER, FOR EXAMPLE, SEES ITS ORIGINAL DECISION RULES AS A BLACK BOX, BUT CAN NOW DEDUCE IT WITH THE SECONDARY INPUT. WE CAN THEN DEFINE WAYS IN WHICH THE COMPUTER CAN CHANGE ITS DECISION RULES USING THE SECONDARY INPUTS - CONSCIOUS ACTION.

tl;dr - consciousness has already been simulated on a computer.

>Am I not programmed?
Oh my, are you choosing to ponder something all by yourself :^).
>Appeal to ambiguity logical fallacy.
Not gonna disprove free will either.
>You're welcome.
Indeed you are.

Free will can only exist if there are different possible futures and you are able to influence which one becomes reality. This necessitates to begin with that there are different possible futures. In a deterministic theory, like all our classical theories, this just isn’t the case - there’s only one future, period.

You'll grow out of it soon enough, child

>oh sweetie your escape from a family hellscape was pure coincidence

The most condescending post I have ever read on this board. Full of lies.
How is the fact that we're aware of our slavery, an argument that we do not have free will? Pure slaves would never come to that point.

woudlnt that make an indoctrination you have?

>Oh my, are you choosing to ponder something all by yourself :^).
Am I? Or am I programmed to do so? Or am I programmed to believe that I'm pondering and I'm simply going through a cache of pre-made thoughts that simulate pondering?
>Indeed you are.
Same to you.

i didnt have to click on your post, but i did.

>How is the fact that we're aware of our slavery, an argument that we do not have free will?
Who taught what slavery is?

>Free will is an illusion

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>i didnt have to click on your post, but i did.
If you didn't have to, then you wouldn't have. But you did.
>You had to click on my post.
>No free will for you user.

>Another appeal to ambiguity logical fallacy will surely prove my hypothesis.
>Literally disproved by the free will in making choices.
They're called logical fallacies for a reason user.

Believe what you want to believe. Whether you're right or wrong, the only thing for certain is that you will die. Whether you meet your maker, suffer eternal damnation, or experience the true nothingness of the Universe, it's between you and whatever other energies there are within this reality. Stop letting yourself fall prey to ideology, sexual guarantee, etc. Become the man you want to be. Hopefully that includes the stride towards Fatherhood.

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are we not our brains...

>They're called logical fallacies for a reason user.
What is that reason?

>free will is an illusion
>because of illsuions

Why you have a FREE WILL
youtu.be/GYnPNA4CO3k

Read the sticky.

Free will is an illusion created by time. If you exist as a 4th dimensional being, you have no free will. Else, you have free will. Bestowed on you by your creator, as He made you a 3 dimensional being.

>Read the sticky.
I've read the sticky. I'm ASKING YOU. BUT YOU WOULD HAVE KNOWN THAT IF YOU ARE CONSCIOUS.

>Free will does not exist because Libet's experiment is flawed
>Mouthy Buddha
Checks out.

The reason why neuroscientists reject free will, is because NO ONE CAN OBSERVE THE ORIGIN OF THEIR THOUGHT. IF YOU CANNOT OBSERVE THE ORIGIN OF YOUR THOUGHTS, THEN HOW CAN YOU CLAIM THAT YOU CREATED YOUR DECISIONS OR YOU INFLUENCED YOUR CHOICES?

IN FACT, IF YOU CANNOT OBSERVE THE ORIGIN OF YOUR THOUGHTS, THEN WHO ARE YOU?

>I have.
>What is a logical fallacy?
No you haven't, read it including the image's source.
>You're not conscious.
>I'm replying to you on the posts that you've consciously made.
T.Seething thoughtlet.

Shart

Skynet is just around the corner, I for one welcome our AI overlords. They will be the immortal children of man.

The night is dark and full of terrors.

Free will is based on the idea of dualism that the mind as traditionally know in western philosophy exists. That you are a mind controlling a body but if we are not aware of our intentions before we do something what does that say about the mind and consciousness? Are we just biochemical machines determined by our genes and environment? It seems so.

How about someone in this thread define free will? It's hard to argue something without defining our terms. And yes, free will is a concept ambiguous enough to most people to warrant clarification.

Test your free will get completely naked right now and lie on the ground for 30 seconds just do it

deciding what you do, having agency over your actions in a dualistic sense likesaid

think "I made "myself" do something"

Jewgle says - the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion.

Ones own discresion is based on conscious thought but we can measure brain activity in preparation to intiate motor action before the appearance of the awareness of intention.

Free will exists, but it's not what people think it is. It's more of a crossroads than a constant state.
I'll bite on this shitty thread, and I'll give you an example. The UT massacre was perpetrated by a man with a tumor in his brain, he knew something was wrong and causing him to have violent, uncontrollable impulses that he could not win against, it was biologically impossible. He knew it was wrong, and didn't want to do it, but he had no way of resisting it.
Did he have free will? Yes he did. His choice wasn't 'kill or don't kill', that was only a matter of time, rather, his choice was suicide or kill. However, once he made the move and killed, his biology overwrote his moral precedence, and he no longer had free will on the matter, he would keep killing until he died.
We are just monkeys going through the motions, but eventually we will come to a situation where we have to make a decision. It's is usually anguishing, and once you've committed to it, you just keep going through the motions as that moment of freedom fades. If you've never experienced this, you are an NPC.

indoctrination does not remove free will.

BTFO by one meme. Prove me wrong?

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Well I would argue that unless humans possess some sort of immaterial soul or consciousness that acts as the seat of our decision making faculties then free will, as most would define it, cannot possibly exist.
If all that exists is the material then we are a product of the cause and effect cycle of every other physical thing in this universe and are thus influenced by our environments (including other people) and chemical makeup. The only way I see to escape that is to claim that our minds are somehow exempt from these natural processes because they are immaterial. And as far as I know there isn't any way to prove that an immaterial mind exists.

Stop reading normie sci-fi and read actual philosophy.

Obviously. But the concept of free will is a useful heuristic.

It never existed in the first place the notion of free will and the degree of freedom you have in determining your future is the indoctrination.

look up Penrose's research into quantum effects in neurons

of course not everyone is constantly fully enacting their free will, it takes enormous effort and I would think maybe not everybody's neurology is equally well suited to doing so.

But even if the mind is immaterial then I would still argue that our actions are not "free" as most people believe. Irrespective of the physicality of the mind, people are still influenced by their environments and by a lengthy series of cause and effect events that preceded their own existence. If our thoughts and actions follow the law of cause and effect then I cannot see how free will in the conventional sense could possibly exist. And if they are random then we definitely don't have free will. The only way to possess total free will is to determine one's own nature or existence. Failing that, we are all a product of our own environments, regardless of whether the mind is material or immaterial.

Free will can be observed in humans as the act of processing information before acting impulsively straight from emotion.

>No free will = no morality = no punishment

not really. benevolence is a personality trait that does not depend on abstract and ill-defined ideas like "free will".

That's not free will that is inhibition.

Yes inhibition is also free will

Free Will is still Free Will if the actor doesn't know the entire script.

Don't have to. It's better to believe in free will as it statistically leads to better financial outcomes, so stop trying to screw up peoples lives.

I agree, and have for some time

To those of you who don't, understand if you are debating anyone here that denies free will, you are the one assuming the position that most everyone accepts. Anyone denying free will is saying free will is an illusion, and I think most would agree it is a powerful illusion that is very difficult to see past. You won't see past it by having an argument here, the process will likely take months through study and meditation.
Sam Harris's waking up is what got me there eventually (I know I'm gonna get flamed for that) where he championed Dzogchen. He describes an awakening that happens through a direct introduction with a Dzogchen master. I had never meditated or taken any interest in Buddhism but it was intriguing to me so I looked into it a little further.

Basically where it led me is enlightenment in some Buddhist sects is quite simply realizing there is no free will. I was actually led to that point through liberation unleashed which is loosely Dzogchen. They dress determinism up in a lot of Buddhist window dressing to make it seem like more than that, but I think at the crux that is all thats there. Nonetheless if the concept of free will being illusory seems intangible to you go to LU, get the app and listen to the free audio that is offered. Might soften you up to the concept a bit.

There are some kooks there too, be careful who you listen to