Is there any more reason to believe in any of the relatively modern gods, than one of the old ones...

Note that hebrew like we know it exist like this like the middle of the 19th century.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_language
>Archaic Biblical Hebrew from the 10th to the 6th century BCE, corresponding to the Monarchic Period until the Babylonian Exile and represented by certain texts in the Hebrew Bible (Tanakh), notably the Song of Moses (Exodus 15) and the Song of Deborah (Judges 5). Also called Old Hebrew or Paleo-Hebrew. It was written in the Paleo-Hebrew alphabet. A script descended from this, the Samaritan alphabet, is still used by the Samaritans.
Originally the bible was written in Paleo-Hebrew.

Pic related, left is Paleo Hebrew and on the right the Vinca Runes found across europe giving a further connection between those
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleo-Hebrew_alphabet
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinča_symbols
given a further connection that the real isralites and chosen people are the aryans

piramidasunca.ba/bs/latest-news/item/3495-the-oldest-writing-in-the-world-has-been-decoded.html
>(1) O Three-One God of the land of Thrace,
>(2) I vow in Truth to bring you all due offerings, O great Son of God,
>(3) And only you (shall) I praise (and exalt), O my God (for you are) great!
>(4) You who are now in your temple, (I pray, hear me), keep me safe and deliver me (from all evil)!
Three one god, the trinity being a theme in the oldest text we have deciphered so far. The trinity is another theme which draws itself across a lot of culture, from sumer to egypt, to the Nordics and of course christianity written in the Vinca Runes

behindthename.com/name/adam
>This is the Hebrew word for "man". It could be ultimately derived from Hebrew אדם ('adam) meaning "to be red", referring to the ruddy colour of human skin
red, like whites are right after birth or when too long in the sun

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>the bible is the one providing the right frame work to view the others properly
You only think so because you grew up in a christian culture. Convictions we get as children are the hardest to shake.

>I am going to take concepts of monotheism from ancient Greeks and then apply them to the semitic gods while proclaiming European gods demons

Why?

>repeating pattern therefore god
Nah, that's retarted. A running system can produce patterns on its own. In fact, patterns is what we would expect. The natural laws of physics are set and matter behaves in accordance with those.
If there was a supernatural force out there, we would see things breaking the patterns, in fact. As either the universe works fine without a god and follows therefore its patterns or there is a god and that god can screw with the patterns that form.

>god created those laws
And then did nothing since creation? We can ignore such a god as a phantasm.

show your flag

We can lny state that about systems we created ourselves as or the system that is nature. Our selfcreated systems now develop patterns like nature does too. So doesnt that hint to nature being created as well?

>If there was a supernatural force out there, we would see things breaking the patterns, in fact.
Quantumphysics, no?

>And then did nothing since creation?
What makes yolu think that? Just because you dodnt see him? Try assuming that there are no coincidences and suddenly there is a lot of work done by God

Because i believe they all speak about the same truths from different perspectives and thus can be applied to one another

> So doesnt that hint to nature being created as well?
It doesn't. It only proves, once again, that complexity can arise from self controlling systems. Evolution works on the same principle.

>Quantumphysics, no?
Electrons jumping around at random is such a good indicator for an intelligence controlling it all.

>Try assuming that there are no coincidences and suddenly there is a lot of work done by God
There don't need to be coincidences for god to not exist. Again...evolution. But we can go simpler.
Gravity. Gravity leads to planets and stars forming. Those two things will end up in solar systems. Solar systems will, with enough tries, contain elements necessary for life. From those elements, some manner of self replicating organism will form. There, evolution starts.

No god needed. Unless you really, really want to imagine one.

All those things only prove your point when assuming that it happened randomly in the first place, circular reasoning. Just assume it was created and it all turns into evidence for it being created.

Quantum physics also go against the principle of cause and effect, effecting events in the past
youtube.com/watch?v=H6HLjpj4Nt4

>Polytheism is by definition more plausible than monotheism.

A theology with one god is more parsimonious than a theology with multiple gods.

The emperor protects

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This also negates any argument of creation on your part, because you're assuming nothing can be coincidence. Even your original statement is that there wouldn't be any pattern within true chaos is a base assumption without proof.

We can see patterns aruising in system we created ourselves. Additionally we can see them arise in system where we cant say wether or not they were created (nature). We dont have any data to assume patterns arise in systems that randomly sprung into existence.
So patterns are a hint towards creation.

>circular reasoning
Same as yours, I know. But my reasoning manages it with fewer assumptions.

>Just assume it was created and it all turns into evidence for it being created.
Fine, let's say that's true. How do you arrive at "Bible is correct" from that? How do you even arrive at monotheism from that?

>Quantum physics also go against the principle of cause and effect
You agree that quantum physics are still governed by physical laws, no? Then this only shows that systems born from these laws can also go against cause and effect without a god.

>We dont have any data to assume patterns arise in systems that randomly sprung into existence.
Except every single observation any human has ever made, because god does not exist.

>We can see patterns aruising in system we created ourselves.
We can set up a system that's natural, such as an experiment in which base elements turn into proto dna by heat. Patterns (of amino acids) still form up, demonstrating how life could have started on our planet without a creator.

You can argue that the natural laws were set by a creator....but you have no proof of one such existing beyond claiming the existence of these laws as such. They work fine without a creators oversight. So why would they need to have been created?
And if that creator was necessary, then what natural laws does he operate under? None?

I believe in Khorne

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>Brazilian
>Believes in Khorne.
Why am i not surprised?

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>How do you even arrive at monotheism from that?
Creation needs a creator, and fromthis everything else comes. So if there are any other of which you call gods those too would merely be creations of the one creator

>How do you arrive at "Bible is correct"
Well, i looked at many myths across the world and they all fitted together, so they as well as the bible are true int heir own ways. When viewing stuff from the biblical perspective a lot of other things shifted into place almost automatically so i believe it provides the best frame work. Additionally it encodes some knowledge of about physics and the likes which we are only discovering now.
In here i go into all that stuff if you sre interested
archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/190291939/

>You agree that quantum physics are still governed by physical laws, no?
Who knows? Im saying it goes against what we know of physics at multiple points in time. You said we would see a breaking of the patterns if there is something supernatural, and we have that here. What to make out of it no idea, just wanted to point it out.

>be the creator of the universe
>give a fuck about humans
k

>We dont have any data to assume patterns arise in systems that randomly sprung into existence.
>So patterns are a hint towards creation.
The first statement does not prove the second. A lack of data proves that there's no reason for an assumption. At this point, whether you're assuming that the universe was created through a creator or through random chance, it's an assumption made without evidence.

>Except every single observation any human has ever made, because god does not exist.
Again circular reasoning. Say God does exist and everything is proof of this as well.

>We can set up a system that's natural
That is creation, so all you say is a created system mirrors nature. So what does this say about wether or not nature is created?

not really. only old people care about this shit and I guess it's because they witness many friends and relatives dying along the way and become scared

The Jewish G*d dates back to the beginning of civilization.

Divine Conservation would be a good start. You know, the basis of the theistic tradition in western philosophy.
Also
>comparing religion to myth
Don't make this mistake

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The planet broke before the guard did

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And Jesus is predicted as early as Genesis. Isaiah (circa 2500 BC IIRC) gets more specific.

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can you quote the passage, so i can read it up?

If i see a van goghs starry night on canvas i assume it was painted rather than assuming it was just colour accidently hitting the canvas. When i see michelangolos david carved in a rock i think „what a crafty handywork“ and not „man,how weirdly this rock is shaped by pure coincidence“. In the sae manner when is see this world i think how beautifully it was created

>Creation needs a creator
It doesn't. That's proven. Evolution is one example of complexity arising from simplicity by processes that follow from very basic laws.

>creations of the one creator
If one creator can exist without beginning, then more can exist. Because at that point, what's to stop them?

> viewing stuff from the biblical perspective
How did you acquire the biblical perspective? If you had been born a Hindu, what would have brought you to this persepctive?

You go at this from a preconceived notion. That there is one god and one creator. But there might be none or a lot of creators. If those were your preconceived positions, then the facts you assume would look very different to you.

>quantum physics = supernatural
Come on.
>it goes against what we know of physics at multiple points in time
Well, our understanding of the universe is not perfect. Of course there are things we got wrong or don't know yet.

There is no reason to believe in any mitology. Just take the best set of values available, that is, the christian ones (the ones that granted the best and more prosperous cultures in the world without compromising individuals freedoms). There are no actual gods, but there are actual good values. And there are some good teachings in other religions too. But overall, christianity is better, in my opinion. The idea of secularism, tolerance or peace in christianity leads to freer, happier and prosperous societies and individuals.

This seems to be due to your understanding of what natural formations look like.

>Just take the best set of values available, that is, the christian ones
KEK, you mean the ones that the catholic church has been preaching as of late? Submission and tolerance?
There is only the light of the emperor, only in death does duty end spaniard.

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>It doesn't. That's proven.
If something doesnt have a creator than its nor created

>How did you acquire the biblical perspective? If you had been born a Hindu, what would have brought you to this persepctive?
I was atheistic/agnostic most my life, only fairly recently came to see that christ is the truth. So its not the preconceived notions

>If one creator can exist without beginning, then more can exist.
Not if we are within the creator itself. Since God is everything we are inside God. This means if there are others at the level of God they are outside of God and us, so there is only one creator God for all practical purposes.

For Genesis:

"Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

The Our shows more than one person in the Godhead- implying more. Then there's more later on in Genesis.

Just look up "Jesus in the Old Testament."

Rather what is actual Catholic doctrine, not just what pastoral teachings as popular with the current pope.

This seems like the right thread

What did Judaism actually originate from? All I can find is canaanite religion which was polytheistic.

I'd talk about the historical evidence that these people existed, but your statements are a non sequitur so it's not worth bothering.

Thanks
I can agree to that

Some of the christian values are obsolete, I grant you that. But the core is so good that allowed the european cultures to develop so much, that they ended up conquering the whole world very easily, even though they were pretty lame in the middle ages. And in top of that, planted the seed of the Enlightment.

>you see repeating patterns therefore god exists

Imagine not understanding chemistry and the nature of carbon.

You can tell that the old gods are returning to the world because humanity is actually progressing again. Christcuckdom held back scientific and social progress for 1500 years, and now it's exploding again.

All things come in a cycle. The dark god of fate, law, and progress, "Satan" to Christcucks, is returning to dominance. He could always exist in tandem with the other Gods, only the violent god of Christcucks demanded sole fealty.

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People collected history and knowledge and put those in the stories across the world. The same goes for the biblical stories. Judaism is taking these and making fanfiction out of it to fit their own believes and subvert the teachings (the talmud).
A lot of the stories resemble ones from the sumerians which is either a source for some of them or just talk about the same events.
Some say zoroastranism is the core at its teaching but disnt look into that desu

This is true but I try not to take religion away from people who need it. Not everyone is at peace with themselves and religion helps with that.

How is raping the foreign cultures and stealing their resources a good thing? People had to violently overthrow Christcuckdom in the Enlightenment for Europe to actually go anywhere. Only Christcucks dedicated themselves so singlemindedly to greed and destruction.

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I'm not saying that conquering is the good thing. I'm saying that only a very advanced and developed society is able to do that. All cultures tried to kill each other for milleniums, only the more advanced succeded.

>If something doesnt have a creator than its nor created
Sure, if we're talking about bakery or clocks or something. But creation in this context means nature and there we see complex systems arise from simplicity.

>So its not the preconceived notions
It is. Christian worldview and culture goes deeper than simply beliefing in Christ. I'm a german atheist, too. So the way I view the world has been coloured by a christian upbringing. That's a difference that's only hard to shake off later in life.
What I mean is, that we all have heard stories in our childhood that taught us a certain way to view the world, to make specific associations. If you had grown up in Japan or India your basic concepts would be different.

>Not if we are within the creator itself. Since God is everything we are inside God. This means if there are others at the level of God they are outside of God and us, so there is only one creator God for all practical purposes.
This is a completely meaningless statement. Sorry, but this is unfalsifiable and springs solely from imagination. You say there is one creator. I say, there could be two. You say, there is one creator.

You're wrong. You can't disengage yourself from your basic premise, that there is one creator god and therefore everything you see reinforces your faulty notion.
You say existence itself proves one creator. But it can also prove several or none. Depending on which preconception you have.

You fell for Jow Forums memes. I'm sorry.

Spirituality can, and should, be approached with reason. Faulty religions like Christcuckdom can only justify themselves through circular arguments and emotional appeals.

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>But creation in this context means nature and there we see complex systems arise from simplicity.
But never from nothing which you argue this world did.

>That's a difference that's only hard to shake off later in life.
If you are an NPC yes, otherwise you will develop your own worldview

>This is a completely meaningless statement.
Only if you ignore basically every ancient teaching there is. The bible teaches us God is in everything, and everything is God. The native americans have manitou which is the spirit dwells in everything. Buddhist tell you that everything is connected and concious. They all tell us that everything is the spirit of the creator, this implies we are within the creator himself which means every ther God on the same level if there are one do not exist for our purposes

>But never from nothing which you argue this world did.
No, from energy governed by natural laws. You say god just exists, I say matter just exists. You make the same from-nothing" claim anyone makes, just with god.

>If you are an NPC yes, otherwise you will develop your own worldview
That's wrong. We're living organisms, our minds are a product of our brains, biochemistry and physical properties. These things change during our lives and are shaped very deeply in childhood.

>They all tell us that everything is the spirit of the creator, this implies we are within the creator himself which means every ther God on the same level if there are one do not exist for our purposes
You rape anything to fit your notion of one god. You're wrong. There's no way around that. Buddhism manages fine without gods. In fact, gods in buddhism are subject to the same universal law as anything else. That universal law is not a self actualized creator, but a force, a natural law.
Just one example how you misunderstand other cultures because you come at them from your viewpoint.

I agree. Any religion requires the beliefers to have learned to beliefe early in childhood. Maybe by now there is even a genetic component to it.

>No, from energy governed by natural laws
What do you think where that energy comes from?

>That's wrong. We're living organisms, our minds are a product of our brains, biochemistry and physical properties
See pic of You could also look into the CIA stargate docs that tell you conciousness shapes reality and not vice versa which alone is evident of a mind outside of the material realm.

>You rape anything to fit your notion of one god. You're wrong
Nope, those things are said in those cultures exactly like i said. Im merely adding that this connection is through the source which is God and that the manitou the same as the holy spirit of the bible.
Different cultures focus different parts of the bigger picture, but they all talk about the same picture

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all religions teach something universal
in every age

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Just like how (((they))) indoctrinate our kids in public schools, you just have instill the message into them while they are young. That is the best way to spread religion in a faith.

Nope, all religions are equally made up.

>What do you think where that energy comes from?
Has always existed. Where does god come from?

>You could also look into the CIA stargate docs that tell you conciousness shapes reality and not vice versa which alone is evident of a mind outside of the material realm.
Sure.

>those things are said in those cultures exactly like i said
Bullshit.
>Im merely adding [god]
There you have it. You hear Buddhist talk about everything being part of one system and your christian, monotheistic mind jumps to god. That one system of the Buddhists has no mind of its own. If that is your creator, then gravity or wetness might be a creator as well.

>Has always existed
Sure it has

>Where does god come from?
he is existence itself.

>Sure
cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP96-00788R001700210016-5.pdf
page 11
>contrary to what everyone knows is so, it may not be the brain that produces conciousness- - but rather conciousness that creates the appearence of the brain

>You hear Buddhist talk about everything being part of one system and your christian
Other way around, i learned about all that stuff and realized its all the same while the christian framework over time appearing to be the one most accurate to me.

Why not take a look at which one (((they))) hate the most and ask yourself why that is?

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>Sure it has
>god is existence itself
You can either assume that god or energy has always existed (or both). God is unproven to even exist, energy is clearly there.

>CIA documents
They glow in the dark, which is respectable, but proves nothing. You understand that humans also once believed bad smells caused disease? Human knowledge is faulty.

>other way around
Your christian, monotheistic mind, you dumbdumb. Not your faith in god, the way you think as a european male, which was shaped by centuries of monotheistic culture.

Lay off the Jow Forums memes and learn to think for yourself. It's very apparent that you make the evidence fit your belief in god instead of the correct way around.

See ya around.

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>to this day science has no clue as to why germans are unable to enjoy anything but work
God works in mysterious ways.

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I am convinced that people living in past ages were capable of much greater spiritual understanding than anyone alive today. Even in the recent past. There is still a slow degradation from ancient times to the 19th-20th century, but somewhere after WW2 we fell off a cliff.

Who in the last 50 years can compare to Dostoevsky and Tolstoy, Schiller and Goethe, Shakespeare and Chaucer, St. Augustine and Origen, Plato, Parmenides, and even further?

In the distant past, people had Polytheism and they understood it, but today I think we lack the ability. We are too spiritually stunted. We can barely handle ONE God without spiraling into nihilism.

I think paganistic gods are too imperfect. That's it really.

pagan gods are all beholden to a principle that is beyond themselves. Norse called it "Wyrd" and Greeks called it "Logos". In Monotheism, God is Logos itself. In that way I think pagan thinking is not so incompatible with monotheism.

>everything about this
Kek

Ah, now I see, the Germans took to Christianity out of sheer autism.

Don't you have something better to do?

Mate the spiritual hierarchy leaves no other option than one God being the ultimate authority. Sure, demigods can pretend to be in charge over us, but ultimately they have to swear allegiance to the one at the top.

Also, please show us the set of superior values you refuse to name.

I love how age of mythology zeus is the depiction used here.

There's plenty of angels of all sorts of hierarchies, doofus

Yep. Pagan gods still find their origin within this universe, and therefore cannot be worthy of worship. Sure, you can be aware of certain spirits, even converse with them, but to put them before God is sheer insanity and the opposite of truth.

I'm not sure I follow, are you saying Zeus is an aspect of the God of the bible?

not worthy of "worship" in the same way that the Trinity is, of course. But you could still have gift exchange and acknowledge their existence within the order of the world, which is all that Paganism really was.

For this reason I don't see why one couldn't be a Christian, and enjoy the fruits of the inner spiritual life and the virtues of self-control that it promotes, while also keeping alive the memory of older gods and myths, and even honoring them in their proper place

Not the guy you (you)ed but Norse and greek myth both were less oppressive than christianity. Even now Christian's tell me when I can or cant buy alcohol and it wasnt that long ago I was told legally I couldn't do most things on a Sunday.

Weird how that works, because I'd the shield was on the other foot Christian's would scream at the top of their lungs if Buddhists or muslims told them they had to observe their faith legally in some minor and petty shows of power

WAHH WHY ARE THERE LAWS

Everything is. Zeus specifically i believe to be archangel michael.

Jupiter is known like Zeus, throwing his lightning bolts or thor with his thunder also being lightning to some extent
Zeus, as i see it, is either what God is in the bible or Michael which would fit since Michael is the one who threw Satan (saturn) down to earth as Zeus defeated Cronus.
The way Satan falls here is
>18So He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.
So Zeus (Jupiter) defeated Cronus (Saturn)
Thor (Jupiter) locked away Loki (While fairly antagonistic I couldnt identify him as a planet)
Michael threw Satan (Saturn) down to earth with lightning.
In all occasions its Jupiter is BTFOing Saturn (or in the nordic one at least an antagonist) with lightning

I have to add here that while most symbolism of God relates to the sun and light the september prophecy makes a connection between Jupiter and Jesus instead of the sun. The prophecy states a child is born and is continued to be described like Jesus is usually (will rule the world with a rod of iron). What happened was virgo, the virgin, birthed Jupiter in the manner the prophecy told (moon at the feet of virgo clothed with the sun aka the sun was behind virgo and crowned by 12 stars) and Jesus is all about rejection of the flesh, of the material and embracing the spirit which gives somewhat a connection to the lightning as its the very force creating the conciousness in your brain (neural impulses animating your whole body even)

In general I believe Jupiter is representative of Gods right hand man. Wether its in form of Michael or God himself appearing in the flesh like Jesus

>But we can see in literally everything that life wasn't created by intelligent design

just... oof, c'mon user, you've had basic biology and you're not retarded are you?

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>this is a bad thing

I wont lift a finger when the shoe is on the other foot. Jewish or Muslim sabbath laws about not going out on Friday night are fine by me. Maybe a pork ban for them too ayy no problem. Laws mandating certain products always be kosher or halal that's fine too. What's the fucking difference when for years I was told no nothing on sunday and no alcohol on sunday and even now jesus hates beer and win before noon but after 2am on sunday.

Its retarded, all of it. And when Christians are the ones being told to follow cultural or religious rules of other religions I'd probably yawn when asked for help and die of laughter when I'm told "they cant ban stuff based on their religion, that's unconstitutional!!1!1!".

Zeus was a womanizing asshole who didnt know everything but had some awesome powers. Makes me seriously question christianity if it can claim Zeus as divine within the same book as jesus.

Our current God, (((money))), requires full time dedication.

Womenizing asshole can be seen is a metaphore for fertillity and creation of life

calling Zeus a "womanizer" is simplistic and misunderstands the mythology. Every relationship Zeus has in the myths is related to some greater meaning, whether it be a natural cycle or some spiritual truth. This is similar to Freyr in Norse myths and his taming of the giant Gerdr. Freyr is the Spring, Gerdr is the frost, and the spring melts the frost and tames it.

Most of the population needs to believe and derive their morals and model behaviour from religion. If there is no religion then the masses will substitute it with government as its higher power which is the worst case scenario. As much as we like to believe we are strong independent people who dont need no God, collectively we do. Charitable giving and volunteering as well as strong moral backgrounds are easier to impart on people via religion than through government, which has it's own agendas and shifting power structures and ethics.

FYI you're already paying higher food prices for kosher stuff. And you have to admit that the sunday prohibitions was a great instrument to give workers some power over their employers. It's hardly freedom when you have to work in weekends.