why did Rome fall? from what I remember in my history class, they had some amazing emperors right before the collapse. if it was politically stable, then what the fuck?
Rome
John Perez
Asher Jones
Unironicly women
Matthew Howard
>implying women can get anything done without men allowing them to
Austin Harris
Germans, as usual.
Camden Gomez
>INFJ trash
Thomas Reyes
>Virgo | rising Taurus | Libra
What the fuck is she talking about? You get one.
Ayden Peterson
No actually all the constellations rotated in proximity to planets in the celestial sphere, so you get more than 1. She probably doesnt know what that means however, and is putting it on there to seem worldly and knowledgeable about muh mysticsm.
Lincoln Perez
It wasn't politically stable. While Augustus created a system of administration that is still emulated today, he never created an efficient way to transfer power. It didn't become an issue until later, but one of the causes of the collapse was Romans fighting among themselves for control of the government. Because there was no legitimate means of transferring authority and because the office of Emperor started out as a combination of many other offices rather than being a kingship, civil war ensued time and time again. This led to the empire splitting into two and from there it was unable to manage itself in the face of invasions, social unrest, famines and religious upheavals. The western empire collapsed and the eastern half would survive until the Turks conquered Constantinople in 1453.
Jaxson Lopez
Weak leadership, shitskin "immigrants", and a conquering empire that wasn't conquering anymore. So literally the same shit that's killing us now.
Andrew Perez
They let hordes of Germanic Barbarians in. That initially didn't collapse Rome tho.
What collapsed it was letting these Barbarians into their institutions and armies.
Also at the time Rome had such a low birth rate that they had to impose "bachelor taxes" on those who refused to marry and breed. Also just like modern liberals, Roman women were using a plant from the Euphrates river to abort their children.
Lucas Walker
Christianity.
Adrian Perez
The jews did it with the help of judaism 2.0 aka (((christianity))).
Jayden Richardson
The eastern Roman Empire lasted a thousand years more because of their undebased coinage.
Carson Cox
Absolute Kek
Rome always used foreigners in their armies. The Roman Empire didn't have purely Roman soldiers since the very begining of it's reign. FOREIGN soldiers is what made Rome a conquerer. Rome was an empire that spanned across continents, appropriated various other cultures, and absorbed many different groups. Stop treating it like it was some homogeneous entity lol. It never was.
Nathan Clark
Jewish subversion
Cooper Myers
Unironically because of socialists. It was the populares and the gracchi who paved the way for Marius and then Sulla showed Caesar you can just bring your army into Rome. Roman Empire was the decline. Roman Republic was Peak performance. Also the army became shit after Augustus’ legions.
Adam Johnson
You cant deny the Germanics infiltrating their institutions led to the Romans downfall tho. Same thing is going onto today with the Muslims getting into politics in Europe.
I bet Macron wants to recruit them into his little EU army too.
Elijah Nelson
Wrong. Their army was composed of citizens who had property until the Marian reforms. Then you were required to spend 30 years and at the end of service citizenship and land was promised. They did have auxiliaries of locals, but the main power of Rome’s army was its core of legionaries who were heavy infantry, well drilled with great discipline, and were the best engineers. Every night they built fortifications. But you’re an ignorant retard so drink bleach
Dylan King
The problems were much greater then that. Oversimplification of a systemic breakdown.
Jack Fisher
>Men say don’t commit adultery while I protect you
>Come back home as father to another mans child
Juan Cook
There are over 100 reasons.
There was no singular reason. It can also be reasoned it never fell
Kevin Clark
How so? Rome was already in decline before the Germanics helped push it along. Besides it was the Germanics who created a better alternative. Only without the pedophilia and degeneracy of Rome and Greece. Besides "Romans" weren't some homogeneous ethnicity. Italy itself was never homogeneous. And more than half of the Roman emperors weren't even described as looking stereotypically mediterranean. How many Italians today to do you see with red and blonde hair who aren't dyed. Or better yet how many Italians today do you see with robust jawlines heh.
James Nelson
>Low Birth Rates
>Huns pushing the Germanics into Roman territory
>Borders so large they couldn't police them.
>Institutions welcoming in the Germanics
>Wanting to replace themselves with the Germanics that were migrating in by the thousands.
Connor Foster
doesn't matter how it fell, its coming back.
thelocal.it
Nathaniel Cooper
Ayden Torres
Kek
It's not coming back
Italy can barely get high internet speeds lol. Southern Europe is bottom of the barrel in terms of technology in Europe. Even the Eastern nations are ahead.
Evan Collins
Importing barbarians to try to fill up the depleted population/legions because of two plagues
Nolan Brown
It was absolutely not politically stable. Constant revolts after Aurelius's rule. I would argue that the worst problem the Romans had was that the position of Emperor was never formally recognized, and as a result no laws were ever passed to dictate how the title passed. It made successions utter fucking chaos almost every time.
Also:
-5th century refugee crisis as the Huns pushed the Germans west
-The Battle of Adrianople resulted in the decimation of the last of the elite Roman legion at the time that they would need them most, and it would never be replaced.
-The center of power and wealth began to move eastward while the west became increasingly backwater/unnecessary
iirc the Germans launched a coup and installed their own Western Emperor and in 476 the Eastern Emperor refused to recognize him and that was it.
Emperor Justinian had Italy and North Africa and a sliver of Spain reconquered in the 6th century and almost reunited the empire, but bankrupted the treasury in the process. The shit he reconquered was useless would be lost anyway, and it would take the eastern empire a few centuries to recover from him bankrupting it.
t. grad student
Kayden Watson
Wrong. It depended on the region this was the composition in the province of Dacia for example. Rome absorbed many different cultures, although the proper is literally STOLE many different cultures and rarely invented anything of it's own. But it even had Arab emperors. Rome was not a homogeneous entity, stop it.
Bentley Sanders
Pig skin dna moved in
Carter White
Weak leadership and too many political power plays that began to get on the 3d chess level once you had adopted barbars serving as military leaders and actively coordinating with the angry barbars
Caleb Thomas
"Pigskins" made up the bulk of Rome's leaders. While most of the legit racially mediterraneans, the lower class.
And looking at present day Greece, Spain, and Italy. Clearly not enough pigskin DNA. Not surprisingly the most racially mediterranean portion of Italy, the deep south. Is the poorest.
Caleb Myers
When Christianity because the official (((religion))).
Levi Baker
>It didn't become an issue until later
it literally became an issue only one emperor later
Nolan Reyes
What’s crazy is Otto III could be considered a legitimate Western Roman emperor even though he was emperor of the Holy Roman Empire
His mother was a princess of the Byzantine empire, which would put him in the royal family going back to Constantine
So effectively from that point on the kings of Germany were in fact Western Roman emperors
Which is also why I don’t think the Roman system has completely fallen. It just changed after 2 thousand years.
Jason Thompson
Alexander James
It was designed as a small agrarian city state and then became a huge empire with a serious dislike of kings, plus it git to the point starting with Julius "Biggus Dickus" Caesar that any charismatic aristocrat who could raise an army could be a player for Emperor, that's how a punk nobody like Augustus managed to gain the throne using his Uncles name to raise an army and a general named Marcus Agrippa who was the general who defeated Marc Antony and Cleopatra. Besides, it's my belief Rome never really fell.
Dominic Green
Where to fucking begin?
Several reasons, it's never just one that leads to the death of greatness. I'll sum up as best I can:
>Religion
The Roman state religion always gave Romans a sense of superiority. Romulus Himself (the mythical founder of Rome) chose the site of the city based upon omens. This self-assuredness was something the Romans did best. They were different to everyone else and they were better. Then came along Christianity (the Marxism of the ancient world); Egalitarian, inclusive, stood for non-violence and eroded Roman sense of superiority.
>Social change
In order to gain any increase in social status (and thus be able to be very wealthy), you had to be a Soldier. Politics, economics and War were hand in hand. In order to succeed in Roman life you had to succeed as a Soldier, and a General. For everyday Romans, you had a duty to Rome to fight for Rome and since it was tied to social success everyone did it. If you weren't a citizen you (or your city e.g Capua) had to earn Roman citizenship. This system kept a large steady flow of aspiring, intelligent men bolstering the state and it's armies. There was a sense of Earning your Roman citizenship, even among those who were already citizens. One might call this Nationalism.
>Demographic:
In the Early to Mid Republican period, the state was effectively held up by a large Middle class. To serve in the Roman Army (which was at this point a Militia), you had to have a minimum property value requirement. If I remember correctly, in order to serve during the Punic Wars, you had to have property value if 9000 Denari(or maybe sesterce, I don't remember). By the end of the Manipular army organization (before it was reformed into the professional standardized Legions that we all now think of when we think of Roman soldiers), that property value requirement had dropped to 1200 Denari. The middle class, through massive constant waring over 200 years, had effectively been wiped out.
cont.
Carson Kelly
Definitely. Western Rome revived titularly when Charles was coronated, and again with Otto. No, the Holy Roman Empire didn't control Rome throughout most of its history and never had its political center there, but that doesn't really matter.
Imperium Romanum was synonymous with the civilized world, and after the 4th century, Imperium Christianum, the Christian World, began to replace the Imperium Romanum. As the Imperium Romanum contracted, the Imperium Christianum never did, and so it became a universal idea, and the Imperium Romanum became a local one. The Roman Empire became downgraded from a universal idea to being a mere state.
People began to realize that you could have multiple Roman Empires, all with emperors who represent God, because it was the Imperium Christianum that really mattered, and that the Imperium Romanum had just become a small part of it.
Jayden Thomas
Meds rule over you right now
Jackson Sullivan
Michael Sanders
see
Noah Morales
Unsound monetary policy.
Xavier Jones
My warnings go unheeded truly the bondpocalypse is upon us now.
Lucas Long
Connor King
Wars to gain territory, wars to maintain gains. Debasement of currency leading to people being unhappy their money didnt buy what they needed any longer. Start bread and circus (social programs) routine to placate causing need to debase currency further. Collapse due to overspending and underproducing. Correct that eastern empire lasted1000 years longer, but failed due to exact fucking same shit. Is happening here on a smaller timeline.
Colton Nguyen
Constant military engagements
Collapsing currency
Brought in foreigners who followed identity politics
Mason Powell
>ENTJ not God tier
Opinion discarded
Camden Martin
lots of battle turned into lots of all men orgies leading to the fall
Alexander Scott
continued:
>Climate
The Romans emerged during a Climate period now known as the Roman Warming period. This coincided with the increase in Temperature that lead to the stagnation of many Middle-eastern Civilizations, and sufficiently warmed up the Italian Peninsula and the surrounding area. By the end of the Roman Warming Period, things began to cool down (obviously), this coincides almost perfectly with the Germanic and other Invasions. People were migrating from the colder areas in Northern Europe into Southern Europe. This (along with the next point) lead to a massive increase in total numbers of Barbarian migrations towards Roman territory.
>The Huns
The Huns and other Steppe nomads pushed the Western Slavs into Germania and Eastern Europe (until this point inhabited by Germans), and they in turn pushed the Germanians into Gaul, Iberia and Italia. These mass migrations and campaigns by the Huns further eroded Roman military might.
This final one is my Theory as to the major reason as to why Civilizations collapse:
>Parasitism
The conditions of Greatness have the strange effect of wearing down the Everyman and allowing the bottom feeders to flourish. The Roman State, like every great power, have to fuel their growth with Blood, and that growth brings in enormous wealth. But where there is money, the vultures come to feed. The Bottom feeders go from being mostly irrelevant in terms of population size, but grow to most of the population. By the mid Empire period, the city of Rome had a population of over 2,000,000, and yet 80% of the population subsisted on the Grain dole. The state budget on maintaining the poor and the "dole bludgers" constituted most of the State budget, probably more than 2/3. Some Roman emperor had the bright idea to give every resident of the Roman Empire who was a citizen of the Region they lived in, citizenship of the Roman State as a whole, entitling them to the Grain Dole and other benefits.
Jacob Gomez
>dating options in burgerland
Aiden Anderson
Subflavum means light brown, Glauco means hazel.
Based on pigments found in statues Caligula was brown haired and eyed, tells something about what the Romans considered a "golden"
Nicholas Scott
Present day Greeks are shifted to northern Europe (probably because of Slavic admixture) compared to ancient Greeks, who genetically cluster with Sicilians and Ashkenazi Jews
Benjamin Roberts
Ultimately: all the Social, Geographic and Economic conditions that lead to the rise of Rome no longer existed by the mid 300's AD/CE. The state was Bloated and burdened, it's citizens had become hedonistic, lazy and apathetic, it's armies were made up almost entirely of Barbarian client-states and Mercenaries, it's spiritual life was in the toilet, it's academic and intellectual life had stagnated. Everything that is happening to our civilization now is what happened to Rome.
Lucas Ward
>posting this image unironically
Grayson Gomez
There's nothing nordic about Roman emperors phenotypically speaking
Samuel Johnson
Nazi's
Joseph Wood
feminism
Brayden Campbell
Isn't like something like 90% of anons on Jow Forums are INTJ
I wonder what it is about us that brings us to this hurtbox over and over.
Jose Evans
An overextended Empire with an economy increasingly built on slave labor, matched with the Jewish brainwashing via Christianity of massive numbers of shitskins and of elite Roman women.
Dominic Gonzalez
Italians with all the Celtic and Germanic admixture are lighter than ancient Romans.
Alexander Collins
>Sarcasm
Every time.
Nicholas Anderson
The ones on the right are late North African "Romans".
Justin Brown
buy cryptocurrency...
Bentley Smith
False, they are from Pompeii:
pompeiiinpictures.com
And pic related are Patricians from other Pompeian frescoes
Ayden Watson
>lots of battle turned into lots of all men orgies leading to the fall
Lichter!
Unbind The Fasces!!