how do catholics explain the thief on the cross? it says he goes to paradise "today".... according to catholics you need to do a bunch of stuff to go to heaven not just believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. he is actually the perfect salvation story:
>admits he's a sinner
>admits he deserves to go to hell for his sins
>believes on Jesus as Lord and asks for forgiveness
>is granted salvation
Catholics worship statues and dead people, they are not christians
The actual word of Jesus Christ trumps anything that catholics or protestants will tell you.
>worship statues and dead people
based and red pilled
Catholicism is the church of the Antichrist user. The only ever believed in Jesus as a superstition to be used to exploit the faithful.
Protestants may be dumb, But Luther was correct.
Judaism, Islam, Christianity, and Marxiest Atheism (i.e. Secular Talmudism) all serve the save Demonic Demiurge hellbent on enslaving and destroying the world.
All four of you should be put to the sword and thrown into the eternal abyss.
this question always mutes catholics when I ask them....
The act of repentance is a work.
>confession is a Catholic sacrement
>thief confesses his sins to christ
>is forgiven and goes to heaven
Whats the issue?
You already said it.
/thread
Catholicism is disgusting, desu
He didn't go to the mass every weekend he didn't take communion, he didn't do good works at all, he didn't go through penance, all of which are doctrines written in CCC
The Catholics, and the Orthodox, have elements of paganism in them, things outside of the new covenant
Does this make them christian?
God will judge
>catholics you need to do a bunch of stuff to go to heaven
t. retard
It's not "earn your way to heaven". People who have faith will do works of they're able.
Catholicism btfo
Sola Fide confirmed
I'm catholic and I find this the most beautiful part.
Through Jesus salvation.
It's simple as fuck.
no it's not according to the Bible. and it's not repentance that saves but grace through faith. if you read Romans 4:5 it's clear that faith is distinct from work:
>But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Catholics believe if you truly have contrition for your sins you can obtain forgiveness, even if you are unable to make a formal confession before you die.
he wasn't baptized etc like Catholics require?
It’s dumb because the forgiveness of sins is up to Christ, you don’t think the direct intercession of Christ himself is sort of an unusual situation? It’s an anomaly in world history, so it doesn’t have bearing on what an average person has to do to get into heaven. Many times in the gospels Jesus is moved by someone’s devotion and faith and heals them on the spot, as for the thief, Christ is moved by how much faith he has in him, even as they both seem to be dying on the cross, as Jesus’s own followers have basically abandoned him. Have you even read the Bible Abdul?
it is simple, but catholics believe in very complicated things because they say you need bapitism, sacrements and yada yada yada, not just faith.
Yeah, but that is the doctrine of Martin Luther.
Catholics and Orthodox believe you have to slave your entire life to not go to hell. Not only that, you can still end up in purgatory for a couple of decades.
Truly dark view on life. How you can even cope with sinful natrure and doctrine of penance I can not understand.
But then again, most Orthodox and Catholics are either hypocrites or cultural Christians.
lot of Catholics in Swedenstan Sven?
I think he may mean stuff like the seven sacraments?
In the case of perfect Contrition in the right circumstances, faith alone suffices for salvation.That's catholic dogma. Had the thief not died there and had sinned again then he would have had to do "works" too.
Through jesus salvation. Baptism is the purge of the original sin.
Just accepting Jesus is the path to salvation, nothing else is needed, stop trying to twist catholicism.
The true power of Christianity in general is that accepting Jesus is enough, that's why it spreaded like wildfire on all continents.
but that's not what saves you... just regretting your sins means nothing -- they need to be imputed onto Christ's record, otherwise you still get judged for them. Seems like a extremely strange doctrine.
The stuff you mean is something that starts within you. In this case, the thief repented and he would have received baptism if given the chance. Christ received baptism and didn't need it. Are you better?
Aren't the Churches in Sweden supposed to be Catholic? I know that Rev Luther called his new kind of Church Evangelical, but that didn't mean he wanted to remove Catholic understanding.
The thief was paying for his sins though through his crucifixion. The only way to save sinners is through the sword.
I have read Cathecism of Catholic church. Most people probably had not.
It is a document full of darkness. To be a Catholic, you have to abandon your reason and freedom to those higher in authority. It is a necessity to obey all commands of the priest.
Whoever says that above is not true, is either a liar or an ignorant.
How can anyone be Catholic today is beyond me. Apart from obvious cultural thing
>asking mary worshipers what they think about Christ
dont
Nope, not needed.
As a matter of fact you are thought that in times of need you can give the sacraments to someone even without training, this is something you are actually taught during the confirmation rite.
It's just a rite but the core remains.
Through Jesus salvation and aternal life.
You can try to twist it but that is going against the core teachings of catholicism.
That would be anti-Christian in nature. Denying sacrifice of the Christ is a grave sin.
Yes I have (not the entire thing 100%, but the big parts + New Testament). also: God doesn't make exception with this guy just because he gets executed next to Jesus.... God didn't even spare his own son, like it says in Romans 8:32.. why would he spare this random guy if he didn't fulfill the requirements?
No, it makes perfect sense actually, if you are physically unable to make correct Catholic contrition but intend to, say, you are on your way to Mass but die in a car accident, you don’t think God would understand your intention?
It shouldn’t because perfect contrition is a thing, which Dismas had shown and was subsequently made a saint for his faith.
Sure you can. But you can not deny that Catholicism teaches that all those who aren't baptized, even if by a common person, goes to hell.
So all aborted and stillborn babies go to hell.
Nice religion you got there, Satan
How do European men justify worshipping a jewish sand idol while they claim they are pro white? For shame.
well yes, the Lutherans call themselves the "real" Catholics but use Luther's teachings. although I wouldn't call the Swedish Church very Christian.
i agrre spic
t. potato
we know the truth burrito
"no"!
Jews were by fact once chosen by God. Now Christians are.
Even you Paganic scum can not deny that there is something great in Jews. Even if it is great evil, it is still great.
let's look at the robber.. he didn't "intend" anything, he literally just started believing in Jesus ON THE SPOT (because in the previous gospels it says that he joined the other guy in mocking Jesus).. so he just got saved there just by believing.. not by intending to fulfill the requirements.
No, not at all, but we recently got a Cardinal selected.
because a white idea isnt the sole occupation of whites
>a broken clock is right twice a day
The joos hated jesus, even tyho hewas their saviour.
whites love jesus even though he was a sand naigger
>gedit jamal?
god fucked up in love, does shit etc.
>God doesn't make exception with this guy just because he gets executed next to Jesus.
Ok Protty, point out where that’s in the Bible, if it’s not then you’re in error of Protestant doctrine(IE, everything is in the Bible, nothing else). Furthermore, God gave Jesus full authority on Earth to do his will, so if Jesus does it, ipso facto, it’s God’s will. Also, God didn’t “spare” Jesus because He planned to raise him after three days, which was the plan from the beginning.
I fucking hate cucklics so fucking much. Everyone I have come across is always more cucked and liberal than any protrestcunt I have come across. I thought they were supposed to be more traditional and against all the progressive shit?
go die muhaned
That's just a cop out, a retcon Catholics desperately reach for and only apply to a few significant cases. So they can continue to insist upon participation in there organized knee bending exercise groups/pedophile priest scouting missions.
Nobody cares as much as you do, ironically. To them it's just going to church on sunday with their family, and being reasonable to one another. If you had any faith you wouldn't be trying to navigate any possible loophole like it's case law.
Dear God, if you accept Jesus that's enough.
The rests are just rites.
What kind of fucked up shit have you been reading? Catholics are just and institutionalized vein of Christianity, and that's it. The following of Jesus as the son of God and the fulfillment of the promise.
Through Jesus lies salvation, the rest are nothing but rites for the church and community to work, mostly historical fluff as baptism is used as a rite to convert or purge the original sin, however as shown by the myth of Jesus itself just believing in Jesus is the path, it's the confirmation of the word.
Stop trying to twist it, I understand you dislike Catholics but the fact is that our core belief is that Jesus is salvation.
>he didn't "intend" anything
Wow, you can read into the hearts of men dead 2k years, impressive! How do you know that he didn’t begin to believe before he was crucified? The lesson is that Christ was so magnanimous in his last moments that he made an exception.
Get saved frens
Finding a Catholic who actually believes in Catholicism is actually quite difficult nowadays. It all went to hell anyway 50 years ago.
Catholic clergy is gayer than the San Francisco school board. How could they not be teaching anything but progressive degeneracy.
Catholics aren't Christians. They literally go against everything taught by Jesus. Also, they're obsessed with Mary, who was a minor character in the Bible. Because she's the Mother goddess, much like in pagan European religions 2000 years ago.
esoteric is hard to pin down
i'm not a Protestant i'm a Baptist. and I already showed it in the Bible: Romans 8:32:
>He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
so he's not sparing his own Son but he's supposed to spare a random guy who gets executed next to Jesus? furthermore: it's not me adding things to Christianity by saying that the thief got saved -- you're the one who has to show me how he got saved if he didn't fulfill all the requirements that you claim are there.
Salvation through ignorance is very well defined in the Catholic catechism
He actually met the living Jesus who was able to grant such things
so you're supposed to just believe in blatant violations of Scripture because you're too lazy to believe in real Biblical doctrines without contradictions?
This.
Why should I pray to Mary for my problems when I can go straight to the source of it all. No one in the Bible went to Mary to be healed/forgiven.
>Theology is less important than feelings
Opinion discarded.
It's because you fucktards aren't seeing the whole picture. Salvation through faith, yes, but that doesn't give you the right to just keep on sinning; you are supposed to do your best to not fall into temptation and ask for forgiveness when you do. You fags need to read the Bible more ffs.
So you're saying Jesus is not living. He's dead? He's not able to grant such things today?
celt.ucc.ie
the eternal high king of ireland
>Dear God, if you accept Jesus that's enough. The rests are just rites.
That's not what the catholic church teaches man, just look at the cathechism and the "sacrements" my friend.
This, the core belief is that Jesus is the path. The rest of it is participation in the rites with your community or family.
Deus vult. I believe in the word, I believe in Jesus. And that makes me a critic of my community as well.
If anything I have issues with the concept other churches have of a "tax" on income to belong, Catholics have the concept of charity as you get ve in the measure you see fit but for other Christians it becomes a must or they are shunned from the community, if anyone wants to take issue they should be directed towards that.
Catholics ditched that shit like wildfire in my country as Jesus has no price.
Just trying to give you some perspective about actual "Catholics" which you presume to understand but actually do not. Disregard if it's inconvenient.
What's it like to be completely retarded?
>How do you know that he didn’t begin to believe before he was crucified? The lesson is that Christ was so magnanimous in his last moments that he made an exception.
Because he was previously mocking Jesus as he hung there next to him. Then after Jesus speaks a couple of times, he received faith and basically accepted Christ as Savior right there.
Jesus was a low life con man. He took control of John the Baptist apocalyptic cult when the latter was executed. He gave afterlife 'salvation' to any whore and thief who recognized him as their god and lord. His apostles carried swords and were quick to draw them. They themselves were thieves and bandits.
Catholicism is the only true christian religion you degenerate faggots
When you meet him you can see if he's obliged to forgive your sins
Modernism is one hell of a drug, starting from the Protestant Reformation to the French Revolution, to the total fucking collapse of western civilization.
However, we can not just pin it on our enemies. For as the old formula goes: As Catholic faith declines, Catholic power decreases, and Jewish power increases. All that is necessary is faith in the one true church, even if it is degenerating, for in the end, Christ the king will triumph.
I thank God I was born in a time where culture, governments, many clergymen, even the air we breathe isn't Catholic or remotely christian. It is a time of testing for those who truly care about the Catholic church. And if martys and intense suffering are needed, so be it, God's will
LMAO, Baptist’s are Protestant Abdul. Again, God gave Christ all power on Earth, Jesus could have refused but didn’t, read the part about Gethsemane. It was God’s decision that Christ should die for our sins, and Christ’s decision that the thief should be spared, where is the confusion?
i fully understand if people don't study the Bible in detail and don't "care" about intricacies, but if confronted they must have explanations at hand.
Simple. It's all just made up shit.
>no it's not according to the Bible
Quote it, prot
i just did in the same post.
>2,000 years strong
>outlasting all governments and political ideologies
Not a bad con, user. Get crucified for your con and maybe I'll believe you too.
>literal son of G_d tells you: you a'ight white boy
>some faggot atheist Swede second guesses Him 1985 years later
>MY BRAND OF ZOMBIE JESUS IS MORE CORRECT THAN YOUR BRAND OF ZOMBIE JESUS!
Goddamn, I wish the mods banned religious discussions on here.
It's a different type of confession, Catholics confess to a priest. Protestants confess to Christ while in prayer. Catholics always need to have something other than Christ to pray to or confess to who then supposedly puts a good word in for them with Christ, it's dumb and like the old pantheons where people would pray to a lesser god to put in a word for them with Zeus. Christ is the only mediator between man and GOD so if you pray it should be to Christ, not to your dead relative, not to some random saint, and not to Mary, same with confessing your sins.
What sins did he confess? Oh, sorry, that's right. Catholics don't read the Bible.
Again. It’s an anomalous situation in world history, the lesson is that Christ is so magnanimous that he’s willing to forgive a guy that was just mocking him as he’s about to die. I swear, ProtAutistantism is a serious problem.
no we're not, and you're being extremely dishonest when implying that we are protestants. please read this link for an explanation of why it's extremely stupid to call baptists protestants: jesus-is-savior.com
now back to your question: the confusion is that Catholics claim there are many requirements for getting saved. baptists claim that there is only one requirement: to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. according to baptist doctrine, the thief was saved like the Bible says. But according to Catholics he should not be in heaven because he didn't fulfill in the requirements. Instead you have to make up extra-Biblical explanations to why he got into heaven anyway.
you can't just claim that he "made an exception" and then ask me to disprove it. you need to prove from the Bible that Jesus just randomly decided to save that guy despite being a major sinner who repented 30 seconds previously.
you like to mock baptists for believing that you can be saved on your deathbed -- now you appear to teach this same thing.
You still get judged even if you're saved. When Christ returns the Church are judged first.
>if confronted they must have explanations at hand
Interestingly, they don't. They're not defending a dissertation. They're just living their life according to a moral philosophy. Defense isn't actually required.
>Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
this tbhdesu...
i really hate that i have to side with "protestants" over catholics/orthodox, because the latter are far more traditional (although increasingly less so for catholics), but sola fide is undeniable
Neger how the fuck would he have spent all his life doing works in the name of christianity, confessing to priests etc before christ?
>believes on Jesus
in
WHYCOME BRAWNDO?
I went through cathecism, in no way they scare you telling you that if you don't follow the rites you are facing hell.
Baptism is to be purged from the original sin and a welcome to the catholic community.
Communion is just doing the first confession and experiencing the ride of holy Communion with the community for the first time.
Confirmation is a tricky one, it is to become a soldier of God and willing to defend the word, in general it is to commit to the community.
That's basically what most Catholics would experience and I'm stretching it with confirmation since that is skipped by many.
Neither of these are a necessity to find salvation, just the belief of Jesus is needed and this is something you are hammered with fucking hard as a catholic, even the concept of salvation by ignorance exists here. Just the belief in Jesus is enough.
Stop reaching.
He was crucified. Catholics believe that Temporal suffering like that is redemptive and can bypass Purgatory. Plus he said that next to Jesus. Jesus probably gave him a spiritual VIP ticket out of purgatory
> Protestants
> Christians
choose one Jamal
>you need to prove from the Bible that Jesus just randomly decided to save that guy despite being a major sinner who repented 30 seconds previously.
It’s an anomalous situation, never seen before and never repeated, why is that so hard to understand? Protestantism is a form of Autism, prove me wrong.
>spergs, bad at context, rigid in interpreting things literally, get super buttmad when people don’t agree with their personally constructed beliefs
Remind you of anyone?