So my gf wants me to be vegan out of ethics. I honestly feel like veganism is stupid.
I go outside, I see a billion cars and around the stretches for thousands upon thousands of miles. If you eat animals or not, it doesn't fucking matter. You're hurting something, somehow, by doing basically anything. Flicking on a lightbulb, buying a phone, flushing a toilet. You are supporting a system which hurts some living thing, sometimes even human things. So to me, the only logical thing for a vegan person to do is basically go live in a tent in the woods to actually fulfill their ideology. (which is an idea that actually appeals to me, not out of vegan ideals, but in general to withdraw from society) Otherwise making these exceptions and drawing the line at animal food and animal clothing, is totally fucking arbitrary, because you are still driving your car, washing your hair, or living in a city that requires the absolute genocide of all wildlife for miles upon miles to even exist.
I also do not believe that causing the least amount of stress and harm is necessarily the best goal in life.I also place animals nowhere near the spectrum of moral consideration as humans. Don't be needlessly malicious to animals, but at the end of the day humans are omnivores and we eat meat, we build houses, we invent shit and in general make nature suit us, not the other way around.
I have also tried being vegan with her out of health experimentation, and it basically means you can't fucking eat anything or hardly even associate with normal people and share virtually any fucking thing with them.
Veganism is unhealthy and morally bankrupt. Vegans in general tend to be at the very least obnoxious, at the worst, sectarian an propagandizing.
Also, bacon.
Now I might be biased because I hate nature and animals (you ever slept in a forest? I have) with the exception of cats, and even then... But honestly, humans are the only animals who developed an ethical framework. Thinking it is a moral good to not eat meat is absurd to all other animals.
Also, plants feel pain. That's a real thing they do. Sowhatever you want to eat, there's gonna be pain. If you don't want to cause pain, kill yourself.
Jaxon Turner
By the way, killing yourself also causes pain to everyone who knows you. So whatever you do, you're screwed to only ever increase the amount of pain in the world.
Hope you're happy. Don't kill yourself, either.
Easton Clark
I am relatively happy and only want to kill myself every 3 months or so but then it passes.
Thanks for the outside perspective. Are there even any vegans on adv?
Joshua Adams
>Also, bacon have an upvote. i laughed more than i should have eks dee
Joseph Ross
>Also, plants feel pain. This.
Nathan Watson
Who summoned me?
This is a complete appeal to futility. Your GF is smarter than you, and honestly, will leave you if you don't stop eating puss and literal feces.
This poster is trolling. Good job.
Watch literal doctors talk about veganism compared to the chairopractors that discuss keto diets ( they truly believe that cholesterol is an energy source, it's fucking insane ):
You do not know how to interpret data. White papers.
Bentley Williams
Veganism is religion like any other. How often do you have sex? How often do you eat? Are you willing to sacrifice everything food related you like for sex?
I wouldnt.
You dont argue with christians about existence of god. Stop whatever you are doing.
Lincoln Jenkins
This post has zero peer reviewed sources or any citations from practicing physicians.
Sat. fat and cholesterol intake causes placque buildup in the tiny arteries of your dick, causing ED ( why Viagra is so popular amongst a generation of men who grew up without porn ).
The fact you think only chiropractors are a credible source for anything to do with keto is astounding. You mention Google Scholar but have clearly failed to use it. This is a pointless discussion. There are vegans in India that are dropping dead from heart disease and Eskimos that eat nothing but fish that seem immune to cancer. There are too many variables to indicate whether a diet is the factor or not. The only thing we can say is that unless you have a disease that requires you to eat vegan or keto, you should just eat a healthy balanced diet. They are stupidly restrictive diets, each with their own issues.
Hunter Thompson
This post has cited zero peer reviewed papers. Maybe you should use Google Scholar like I told you to. ;^)
Without fat intake your body cant produce most hormones like estrogen or testosterone. Cholesterol is basic material your body use for literally everything.
What you are talking about are obese people (who often happens to corellate with eating shitton of meat, sugar and fats), but that doesnt imply you cant eat fat and meat IN MODERATION, do sport and fuck even in age of 70 if you also do cardio sport for that blood pressure gains.
Literally all you need to stay healthy is BALANCED DIET and some cardio sport. Vegans are as retarded as morbidly obese people with "muh genetics". Btw op talked about being vegan for ETHICS reasons, not health. So please use arguments like >why would you murder this innocent chicken? It is so clever and cute! That pic of yours is much better. Now go, make a food which is as tasty as meat and milk products and is cheaper to produce and all planet will switch to vegan.
>serum cholesterol This is not the same as dietary cholesterol. The debate is partially around whether serum cholesterol is bad (answer: it depends what kind) and partly around how much meat consumption affects serum levels (answer: not very much). Meats with Polyunsaturated Fats such as fish actually lower serum cholesterol. Is the lack of protein slowing your brain down? Eat some more couscous faggot.
Matthew Price
I really don't even care if plants feel pain or not. Fact is, you cleared a billion acres to make said vegetables, blasted them with pesticides that leaks into the environment, ran tractors back and forth over them, built fuck huge processing plants, the people that work in those plants drove all the fuck around to there job and home, shipping those vegetables through the country and overseas, the boats that shipped them spewed out so much noise pollution that whales want to commit suicide in some areas. Those foods go to other countries to keep other countries dependant on food aid. But this is moral all moral I guess because no animals were directly harmed.
Furthermore, no pets and if your kid is dying and you need a medicine made from animals, fuck them I guess, let them die so a goat can continue eating grass and bashing his head into another goat. I can't kill the rats in my garage, I can't kill a fucking bug, unless it's Tuesday or some shit, but I can basically drain the planet of any other resource as long as it doesn't directly kill an animal.
I do believe a healthy diet includes way less meat than the average human consumes, but ultimately it's a pick your poison world, because tons of vegan drink beer and smoke, both of which are hugely bad for your system.
Adam Diaz
Can you find any peer reviewed journal articles that back this up?
>tanking your T levels by not consuming cholesterol or saturated fat Ever wondered why vegans dudes are so effeminate?
Owen Edwards
>Is veganism stupid
That's subjective and totally up to individual opinion..
....yes though. My subjective opinion is it's fucking dumb..
But my point is, she shouldn't be pushing it on you at all, you shouldn't have to put up with preaching, and you should be accepting of how she chooses to waste her goddamn body away with poor nutrition, because even though I'm convinced you can be vegan and healthy, I think it's such a precise nutrition science the dumbasses who follow it don't get it right.
Vegetarian diets are low in certain fats that the body needs for brain function. This study found that some people are biologically more capable of getting these fats from vegetarian diets. Those people CAN live vegetarian, and probably can live vegan too. However, not everyone has the genetics for this.
There is no straight answer, since everyones biology, lifestyle and habitat is different. You should not limit your diet unless you are absolutely compelled to for health reasons.
Dylan Nguyen
Is this why I'm tired all the time now? I tried it for a week and I feel tired as fuck and am falling asleep a good 1-2 hours before I normally do, even with that fact adding up to 9 hours of sleep.
Also, me lifting means I'm eating so many beans for a protein that I am farting non-stop daily now.
My skin seems a bit clearer though.
Aaron Sanders
tl;dr I can't fix everything, so why bother trying? You're like an asshole that tells other people that life isn't fair so you don't feel obligated to attempt to be a decent person, or a grubby weirdo that doesn't bother washing his hands because some bacteria are going to survive anyway. It's like Baby's First Nihilistic Crisis in here. Grow up.
Chase Perry
Be a vegetarian instead, veganism is just retarded larping.
Ian Jackson
Its hard to point the finger at anything, but the body needs to adapt to change and you're only a week in. Your gut bacteria was primed for your previous diet and your macros might be off or you might have depleted electrolytes. You would need at least a month or so to adapt.
>My skin seems a bit clearer though. Lots of people get that on vegan. I think its less to do with diet and more to do with the absence of double cheeseburger grease and face touching.
Colton Edwards
OP your argument is flawed because it assumes that life is inevitably fucked and that we have no control over how fucked it is, so therefore we shouldn't try to improve it. That's simply not true, all it takes is enough people to have the willpower to make a change.
Nor does veganism have to be centered around animal welfare either. the idea you have that humans have a tendency to make nature suit us is particularly interesting because currently we're doing precisely the opposite and if we continue destroying forest and unbalancing the ecology of the oceans and rainforests we will make the planet uninhabitable not only to animals but most importantly, for us. It would follow that in order to manipulate our environment to suit us (as you suggest we tend to do) we would have to control our impact on it and ensure that we don't fuck it up completely
The meat industry alone contributes massively to environmental destruction and global warming and is one of the few industries that is not completely essential to the modern economy (unlike the energy industry). Humanity doesn't even need to remove meat entirely from it's diet - but it will definitely need to exponentially reduce the quantity it consumes as at current rates it is already unsustainable.
So no, veganism isn't stupid. It's an entirely appropriate response to the effect humanity and the global industrial economy has had on the environment and our future prospects as a civilisation.
Jack Gutierrez
Different fag on your side. No worries I looked it up.
>Treatment for high serum cholesterol above healthy levels includes a diet low in saturated fats
Banned by the FDA, they're being phased out. Moving on.
>If that doesn't work, you may need medication
No cut meat out of your diet.. funny.. Also I did note something about healthy levels of serum cholesterol?
I think the other guy read a food babe post.
Brayden Lewis
by that logic, everything is stupid. why aspire to anything when you can be ignorant and make excuses for yourself?
Austin Cooper
Sounds like baby's first "everyone who isn't vegan is a nihilist" fallacy, to me. Why aren't you in the fucking woods right now? Do you feel like it wouldn't make a difference? Oh it must be because you're a nihilistic faggot that DOESN'T CARE ABOUT THE ENVIORMENT! Hurr durr realativism!
When it comes down to it, I just don't give that much of a fuck beyond regulating my own diet somewhat. I'd rather be able to enjoy the many social aspects of food and being a human. If I was in China and offered dog, I would at least try it.
Oliver Wright
Right, however, I believe that what humans need to do has really very little to do with what we eat or what we make. The core of environmental issues, scarcity and many other problems is simply this in my view: There are too many goddamned people on this planet and we just keep making more and more and more people endlessly like cancer. We do not need our insane population. This is mostly due to lower income countries that do fuck all but produces humans. The true issue is our obsession with endless growth. It won't matter if we stop eating meat, but keep reproducing like rats. If people would do more to even just allow there to be a population deficit for even a few generations, humans wouldn't just drop off the face of the earth.
To me, the meat industry and industry, in general, is a red herring. The core of the problem is simply: too fucking many of us.
Jonathan Moore
Actually, I think you're more of an immature faggot than a nihlist. You have black and white thinking on par with an angry teenager. What, you're either a gasoline swilling pig or a tree fucker with zero middle ground? Again, grow up. If you're too lazy to bother being any kind of change in the world and/or don't care about animals, just be honest about it. Couching it in an apathetic "I'm too wise for that bullshit, mayne" cool guy stereotype circa 1992 is just pathetic.
Thomas Nelson
Humans are omnivores. Organisms on this planet are arbitrary and objective value does not exists. Ecosystem will adapt after mass extinction event like it always did or we will become hyper apex predators and spread out into space. This will leave is with technology to revive extinct species.
Argument ended. Your sister does not see the long term bigger picture.
Mason Evans
*this will leave us with
Corrected
Matthew Lewis
So you would prefer to genocide Africa than reduce your meat consumption yet still claim that you have a moral consideration towards humans?
It sounds like you're really fucking confused and would rather jump through imaginary hoops than to admit that eating a burger is needlessly contributing to the livability of our planet.
I guess you're American too right?
Ian Bailey
>if we continue destroying forest and unbalancing the ecology of the oceans and rainforests we will make the planet uninhabitable not only to animals but most importantly, for us >Looks at history of mass extinction events far worse than humans and then at how the ecosystem recovered.
Right. Solid argument. We are the apex predator. Every action we take is mandated by nature. A Lion has claws, a Fish has gills and we have our cognitive capability as our main survival weapon.
In the next 200 years we will clone extinct species into existence once again.
Anthony Price
Firebombing Africa wouldn't be a bad idea desu if we could spare the rainforests and animals.
Jason Rogers
>Genocide India an China
Africa is not that much of a burden yet due to high child birth and poor development.
Christopher Rivera
*high infancy mortality rates
I need to go to bed. all these typos...
Jackson Harris
You're an idiot. We need to protect the environment because WE need it to survive. We need other species because they underpin the cycle of natural resources that for instance, provide fertility to agricultural land, store water and modulate flood zones, trap carbon dioxide etc.
If you would prefer to do nothing then you're essentially guaranteeing the extinction of humanity in a much shorter space of time than 200 years. We won't be cloning anything at that point.
Julian Fisher
What are you retarded? The solution is as I said... let our reproductive rates go down for a few generations. Of course, you would do this where population rates are soaring first. But you're probably too stupid to comprehend anything beyond "RACISM ALERT! RINGADINGADINGDONG!".. holy fucking god you are dumb as shit. Do you read?
In short not having as many kids is not the same thing as a fucking genocide you retarded knuckle dragger. Goddamn if we ever start sterilizing people I hope you are on that list.
Brody Russell
>This is mostly due to lower income countries that do fuck all but produces humans.
Someone sounds triggered.
Josiah Davis
>Implying all animals that we currently consume are essential to the ecosystem >Implying we cannot analyse which animals are and focus our developments >Implying the rate of technological change does not guarantee our extra solar existence in the next 200 years >Implying our cognitive capability cannot guarantee our existence at least during a limited extinction event. >Implying we are not the apex predator
Alrighty then.
Jordan Wright
Yea facts are pretty triggering, poor people make more kids on average. A poor country has more poor people in it, go figure.
Ryan Morris
>Implying all animals that we currently consume are essential to the ecosystem
No, it's not the animals we eat, it's the animals we exclude that are the ones that are essential to the ecoystem. We produce only a few animals, using huge quantities of land and water to produce feed, destroying habitat that would otherwise be functional ecosystem. We then produce profligate waste - in the form of slurry, exhaust emissions through logistics etc. which further damages whatever is left.
>Implying we cannot analyse which animals are and focus our developments
You can't analyse what's already extinct.
>Implying the rate of technological change does not guarantee our extra solar existence in the next 200 years
Wishful thinking.
>Implying our cognitive capability cannot guarantee our existence at least during a limited extinction event.
Based on exactly what? How do you imagine society to look if the current supply chains are disrupted due to ecological collapse and climate change?
Kevin Cox
Everyone's reason for being vegan is different. I'm not a vegan, but let's play devil's advocate here. Your ramble about carbon emissions and dying wildlife does not change what is moral and what is immoral. If you think that animals are as important morally as humans, the way they are imprisoned and tortured by the meat industry is not okay. If you believe like in the Old Testament that animals exist to serve humans, or like Descartes that animals are simple machines like clocks, then it's probably okay to you.
Parker Cox
That being said, humans are omnivores, and the meat industry meets demands so that people across the world can eat. Sure, even poor people could make a switch to proteins like from beans and so on, but meat still plays an important role in feeding humans worldwide. Even in America, many poor people struggle to get food, so imagine how many people across the world rely on meat to live.
The nature of being an animal involves killing other things in order to prolong your own life.
Buddhists and Hindus believe in a sort of universal morality where people should seek to limit the suffering they inflict on other conscious beings, and that is one of the main reasons so many people don't believe in eating meat *or* simply don't endorse the practices of corporations like Purdue and Tyson.
Xavier Ramirez
I'm not on the vegan side at all.. but we are not far at all from just lab made food... And it will be cheaper and more nutritious anyway as the technology progresses.
Cheaper better and more efficient = emergent norm whether people like it or not..
So that's really the end of it honestly.
Then the veggies will all cry as we slaughter the massive overstock of livestock.
Eli Torres
I think ethics is a personal thing, but you should be able to 1) analyze your own practical ethics (why do you feel and act the way you do), enough to verbalize it. The point isn't to "win" arguments but to get acquainted with ethical dilemmas.
I'm not going to give you ready-to-go ethical arguments against veganism, or to pop holes in their arguments. Personally I find that type of posturing to be disingenuous, even though everybody fucking does it.
Luis King
Tell your girlfriend that suffering must be conserved. If she wants to help the animals, she has to sacrifice her butthole.
Jonathan Evans
This article doesn't say what you think it says user.
It's saying that some Indians synthesize their own Omega 6, which would skew their omega 3/Omega 6 ratio (independent of veganism or meatfucking)
Reminder to eat vegan. Together we will save the world, one meal at a time.
Connor Lewis
Pave the rainforest, burn fossil fuels. When I eat burgers, I eat two. Some vegan just chose Tofurkey over a fat, juicy burger. Do you do your part in the fight against preachy college kids?
Vegans squash so many bugs when they go on a hike. You are also supporting death of gophers and squirrels when you consume anything coming from grapes cuz people who own vineyards have to put gas in their gopher holes and lite it up to kill them all so they dont eat the grapes. Being vegan is one of the ultimate blue pills. Its a wimpy cop out, you want everyone to love and be peaceful yet in reality life is not just a free ride where you can just pick veggies and eat them and get thru life this way passively without competition. Because it IS a competition to live, even if you do choose to be vegan. Hippos are vegan, and they fight and kill each other all day for the right to survive and mate. Sure you can be vegan, get proper nutrition and even lift weights get jacked and strong but you had to compete to get this regardless. All the veggies you ate to get jacked for example could have went to a starving child in africa. Vegans cant win.
Owen Green
This comment is a satire of the "appeal to futility" fallacy
The comment about vegans not winning is the converse of a statement taken directly from Animal Liberation
Great job user. You have to have spent a lot of time reading through vegan literature to come up with a post this obnoxious.
I don't know if this is an option for you but I live in a rural area, so I can get beef and know what kind of conditions the cow was raised in, the conditions it was slaughtered in, and it's name. IMO, humanely raised beef is a good choice.
Mason Garcia
HAHAHAHAHHAAHAHA this is why you don't ask for other people's opinions OP. You have a worldview and that's enough
Justin Jones
This is so confusing. What the fuck are you on about? Do you believe anything you post or is this all a nested trap, or sardonic shitpost?
Veganism could be more ethical, but it would change the entire agriculture industry, and what people ate would likely be as or less healthy for them then eating meat.
