Can girls make the first move and try to win a guy over? OR it is cheap and guys don't like it?

I've been asked on a date by a woman. It was actually rather refreshing not having to do all the work for once.

>Men just dust themselves off and move on to the next girl
Its not always that easy...

It may be an old concept, but it still bears truth

this

My wife was the one to approach me and we've been together 7 years. Some guys might get turned off by it, because it violates their idea of proper dating practices, but if that's not something you particularly care about, then there's no problem.

>Some guys might get turned off by it
Do you know guys like that personally? Because as a straight guy, I can't see why it would be a turn off for a guy since the girl is basically doing the crucial steps for you.

How? It’s what guys do. Men aren’t phased by rejection because it happens constantly if we wanna go anywhere with women. You’re gonna get shot down by like 6-8 in 10 women you try to bang.

>Hey wanna-
“No”
>Whatever, bitch
>Hey wanna-
“No”
>Whatever, bitch

If you’re looking for someone to be in a relationship with, it can be worrying that she’s so forward with men

I also prefer it. Making the first step is hard, and scary, especially because I'm an introvert and I don't really enjoy talking to new people. But she's a hardcore extrovert, and she loves it, so it was something that worked out well for the both of us.

But when I say that some guys might be turned off by it, there are any number of reasons that might be. Some guys like to take the lead and be in control, and making the first move is a way of making that happen. A woman making the first move can be a sign that, at the very least, there may be some conflict there in the future. (this isn't necessarily a bad thing! Just incompatible personalities)

Also, see the responses in this thread. There are a bunch of guys saying that it isn't natural, or women aren't wired for it, or whatever (which is bullshit) but if a woman DOES end up making the first move, these guys might perceive it to mean the woman isn't very feminine, or won't be willing to accept traditional gender roles, which is also super important for a lot of people. Actually that's very similar to my first point.

Yeah it pretty much comes down to gender roles.

As a dude, I would fucking love a girl to make the first move. A girl telling you what she wants instead of playing games is honestly a dream come true, I've only ever had 2 girlfriends like that in my time and they were among the best relationships I've had.

>Some guys like to take the lead and be in control

That is where it gets tricky, particularly when it comes to the bedroom. I've had girls that were assertive as fuck in person, but totally submissive in bed and the other way around.

Oh, for sure that happens. Understanding how people want to be treated in different contexts is all part of navigating a relationship. People are complex. But in the context of this thread, we're discussing the beginning of a relationship.

You can

>it is cheap and guys don't like it?
Sounds like peer pressure?

go for I get approach by women a lot and I find it flattering. also I am very thankful for brave girls because I am shy and introverted.

Ive had more girls approach me then I approached them. It feels a little emasculating to me so I would turn. I alwayd end up regretting it too.

My gf asked me if I'd be her bf on our 3rd date.

Do it. No guy on the planet would feel anything but flattered that a girl asked him out. Exception if they've got massive self-esteem issues but then you dodged a bullet.

you can but why
women don't need to make the first move

Sometimes they do

it’s completely and totally okay for girls to make the first move, happened to me twice already

some guys honestly might really want to ask you out, but not have the guts to do it out of fear of rejection

Actually studies found guys have more difficulty getting over break ups. Your whole rant felt very..... uneducated , to say the least

But slut shaming is still very much alive and well. Have you ever been on Jow Forums? A lot of guys here start slut shaming girls just for not being virgins. And heaven forbid you have more than a few partners. So by your logic, guys should still be the ones to ask out women, especially according to guys on Jow Forums

Gotta be honest, not so easy for me.
I approach girls with hope, and when I get rejected, well yes I move on because I learned how through experience, but it is always combined with 1) thinking "what did I do wrong?" "did she think im ugly?" etc. 2) broken hopes, which kind of hurts.

You're putting women in a double bind. If she approaches a man, she's desperate. If she doesn't, she's laughably coy. Grow some self awareness or shut the fuck up, this mindless parroting hurts people.

>men can't have close male friends, that's gay
>men can't have close female friends, they'll always fuck or be cucked
>result: men become dependent on romantic relationships for emotional support, making it unnecessarily devastating to struggle with dating or go through a breakup

>if a woman likes fashion and makeup, she's a shallow whore
>if she doesn't, she's a lying attention seeker
>result: unnecessary stress, women feel pressured to hide themselves no matter what they do, the sexes are divided even further

You're promoting the same bullshit mentalities that cause most of the problems on this board. Fuck off and don't come back until you've finished high school.

Too many people in this thread are young and naive. I miss those days. You have to approach women. You have to let women know that you can leave that at anytime for another girl or she'll never respect you. She needs to know that everyday you are making a choice to be with her and that if she fucks up then you are out. It's why it's better that a man approaches women because she'll never be able to say "No one is going to approach your gross ass. I'm the best thing in your life. Without me you'll be alone" or something else along those lines. By approaching her you already set the ground work that you are confident and able to talk to girls (at least if you seduce her)

think of it like a fisherman and a fish. women are fish. men are fisherman

when a fisherman wants a specific type of fish, he can travel to where those fish are and use the bait he knows works best. the fisherman cannot target a single fish, but he can catch her with luck or at least a similar one if he is good enough

when a fish wants to get caught by a specific type of fisherman, she can swim to his area near his boat. he might catch her, and if it’s not the right type of fish he can throw her back. the fish can target a fisherman, but there’s no guarantee he will want to keep her

bottom line and more in line with your question, you can definitely pick up a man if you are a bold woman who asks him out. but don’t expect that relationship to be a natural one where the man knows how to lead. in fact, expect that relationship to fall apart unless you happen to find a man who respects your masculine qualities while also becoming more of a man himself. it’s a huge gamble

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>think of it like a fisherman and a fish. women are fish. men are fisherman
That's a stupid analogy. If anything, women are the fishers who cast out a line in a sea of fish(men) hoping that the shiny lure(women fixing themselves up to be attractive) attracts one(guy) enough to bite. And just like irl there will be a sea of men willing to try to fight to bite on the same shiny lure.

what’s stupid is the idea your pushing that women are leaders or predators in relationships. this is why so many relationships are doomed to fail from the start. women are fish. fish get caught

>what’s stupid is the idea your
You're. You're looking for the contraction of you are, not your.
>pushing that women are leaders or predators in relationships
They very well can be. Haven't you ever heard the term "whipped"? Many males males in relationships are indeed the prey in the relatiinship. The thousands of beta followers vying for 1 Instagram whore aren't predators or leaders either.
>this is why so many relationships are doomed to fail from the start. women are fish. fish get caught
Uhh No. You really need to work on your analogies

Kek, so you're saying that a relationship in which girl isn't afraid to take some initiative instead of sitting on her ass like some holy cow is Unnatural? If anything showing some interest may prompt the guy to make the move and ask her out.

>mentions “so many men are whipped”
>doesn’t mention “so many men are unhappy”
>doesn’t mention “divorce rate skyrocketing as we step further into feminism”
>doesn’t mention “male suicides skyrocketing”

women can’t lead shit. ask any man who is “whipped” how happy he is when he’s 2 years into his marriage. watch his eye twitch and he lies to your face

what women love is a man who chooses her over others. a man who tells her what he likes

for even more fun, ask a women who is “leading” her relationship how happy she is. the answers will vary depending on financials and whether or not children are involved. you’ll still see the eye twitch

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>Kek, so you're saying that a relationship in which girl isn't afraid to take some initiative instead of sitting on her ass like some holy cow is Unnatural?

here you mention “initiative”

>If anything showing some interest may prompt the guy to make the move and ask her out.

here you mention “showing interest”

these are two different things, and blending them together just tells me you don’t know your ass from a hole in the ground

she should show interest. be flirty, eye fuck, play with hair, smile, etc. but she shouldn’t assume the role of a man and make the bold moves. if a woman pulled this shit on me i’d tell her “no thanks bro”. but then again, there’s probably a reason i didn’t make the first move. she probably wasn’t attractive enough

I see. What you are looking for is asking him on stealth date:
>hello, it is me femanon, do you want to hang out with me?
Boom done. Use regular SMS text since it is hard to miss (compared to facebook or any other current social network). If he replies great, figure out activity and time, if not, move on with your life.

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>but she shouldn’t assume the role of a man and make the bold moves
Bold moves like what, unzipping his pants? Or bold moves like shooting him a text or suggesting an outing together? I see nothing wrong with either, some men like bold girls, it's sexy and much better than going through the throes of signalling which is usually too easy to miss and too ambiguous. Maybe I'm just an oldfag who has no patience for playing along with coy maidens.

Can and should are two different things, you theoretically can but you shouldn't. The kind of guys that are too scared have many other problems worse than a little anxiety plus theres the he'll just think you're easy or however you want to put it. If he won't even try in the beginning do you think he'll try at all in the middle.
Protip for everyone, never try to win someone over, convincing them to like you because you're desperate basically, it's never going to work out.

>never try to win someone over
Dude
If people applied your advice the majority would be incels now. Trying to win someone over is what flirting is. . .

yes letting her make the bold moves of setting up a date is fine. letting her lead the relationship is fine. it’s like letting a child drive a car. most will crash and die. only a few will make it

women have nuclear meltdowns trying to decide what they want for dinner. only the ignorant willingly let them lead a relationship

>women have nuclear meltdowns trying to decide what they want for dinner
you must be surrounded with fantastic gals

all women are like this at heart

even the radical feminists that try to emulate masculinity

Ita funny how this is a 180° from your original post.

You’ll never be desired by him til the day he dies.

Find a guy who likes you for who you are.

Whats with this leading concept. Girls with daddy complexes are irratating and very unattractive.

>all
stopped reading right here. You just singlehandedly discredited every single thing you said in this thread.

yes, ask me out pls
I don't have the balls.
Just be honest instead of dropping hints.

95% of guys will appreciate it. I guess there'd be some guys who want to be the 'alpha' or expect the girl to be meek, but you'd probably want to avoid those types anyways.

Of course. I didn't say it didn't but it is an outdated concept. Just like there are people that even today prefer to keep being virgins till marriage, people that do things the old fashioned way (dates, weddings, sex), it will still be a thing. And probably it won't stop being a "thing". But it needs to stop being the norm.

The first girl I fucked approached me. I thought she was pretty outside of my league too, but I guess she just thought I had a nice face. I definitely liked it, I don't know why you would think that guys wouldn't. I wish more women did the approaching to be honest.

>she shouldn’t assume the role of a man
What role? Thats as tiring as it gets. Are you interested in somebody? Then you go and try to get him/her. Doesn't matter. Getting asked out by a girl doesn't mean you can't or won't take the initiave and "leadership" in other aspects of the relationship and even then what you said is stupid as hell.

>Durr if you're not good at social interactions you're not a man
There are plenty of awkward social recluses in shit like special operations, so I'm inclined to believe what you're saying is bullshit.

>when a fisherman wants a specific type of fish, he can travel to where those fish are and use the bait he knows works best. the fisherman cannot target a single fish, but he can catch her with luck or at least a similar one if he is good enough
>when a fish wants to get caught by a specific type of fisherman, she can swim to his area near his boat. he might catch her, and if it’s not the right type of fish he can throw her back. the fish can target a fisherman, but there’s no guarantee he will want to keep her

lol wat

>but don’t expect that relationship to be a natural one where the man knows how to lead. in fact, expect that relationship to fall apart unless you happen to find a man who respects your masculine qualities while also becoming more of a man himself. it’s a huge gamble

lol if a "man" is going to be unable to maintain a relationship simple because a girl asked him out and he feels like that removed his testes then he's not much of a man at all and can't maintain any sort of relationship

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I always reach out to men because the men I want to date often are bashful and I like seeing them get thrown off their game with a "senpai noticed me." It's fun.

yeah, avoid any sentiment or strength or masculinity. are you retarded?

cognitive dissonance shows the most when you take euphemisms literally. you disagreed with me when you realized i wasn’t dishing out numale neckbeard advice

and people like you would be dumb enough to take that risk. enjoy the decline

you desperately want to normalize awkward behavior in males. wonder why that is?

you go gurl *snap* *snap*

the theme behind these comments is a general dislike for any males that believe women should be feminine and men should be masculine. this is why degeneracy runs so rampant in our cultures. face-to-face the femanons here would be running their mouths a lot less. and the white knight numales wouldn’t even entertain the idea of going out on the weekend because their meds don’t mix well with alcohol. this is why your ideology is so flawed. it holds no weight in reality

is this that polish guy again?

Usually when Jow Forums guys complain about girls not making the first move they're referring to their desire to live in a reality where they have to do nothing and pussy will fall in their laps. Being an autistic neckbeard who doesn't shower and is too autistic to make eye contact will never result in girls just coming up to you and making the first move. It happens all the time but you do actually have to put in effort into being someone worth walking up and making the first move on. If you're just some unkempt incel with asthma in a pair of dirty cargo shorts chances are all humans, not just women, will avoid making first contact with you. Be funny, be charismatic, by magnetic. This is how you acquire female attention, not waxing poetic on Jow Forums about how you wish being able to sit on your ass doing nothing resulted in success.

I think op is a girl who wants to woo a guy

Yes, but same as with guys, be prepared for rejection

lol

this is something most people learn as they age.
These post always remind me of when I was a depressed teenager who didn't know how to talk to strangers.

I feel sorry for the 35 yr old autistic incel asthma and eczema ridden anons complete with dirty teeth, poor hygiene and zero social skills while still sporting dirty cargo shorts and a neckbeard.

I mean, for fuck sakes that much time and you refuse to change the obvious?

I dunno but it just reeks insecurity

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No. This is forbidden

I'm a bit late but I say it's one of the most attractive things I can think of. I personally like cutting the bullshit and not playing the typical dating game if I can help it. When you display your interest in an obvious way it can still make stupid guys like me question whether you like me, and if you make it impossible to misconstrue by asking me out I feel both more comfortable, flattered, and have a bit of respect for you (it takes balls to ask someone out).

Do it more and tell other girls to do it more.

Definitely do it, I don't see many guys being against it. You don't happen to have a name that starts with "L", do you?

They can but most won't

Girls can and do make the first move, just not for you

slut

Lawlz!

They can as long as the signals are pretty clear. I had a weird experience with one of my co workers who I believed at first had a thing for me but then I realized she was being pretty silly with me and not with anyone else. I assumed she wasn't taking me seriously so I did the same. One time she got mad I didn't sit with her on break and I told her I thought she didn't want me to bother her, she was mad at me from then on going as far as calling me by other names claiming she forgets what my name is. I just took this as a sign of immaturity and left things as is and just occasionally said hi to her when I saw her every day, she did the same. When I left that job I didn't tell her and she ignored by the final few days so I assumed she just got a new boyfriend or lost interest in me.

Case in point, if you want to make the first move be very careful and make sure you understand the guy you like and if he doesn't reciprocate at all then you can assume he might not like you, in my case I was just shy and when I started warming up to her it was too late.

>Can girls make the first move or is it cheap and disliked
Depends on the guy, I've been talking to this equally "fucked up" (to a degree) Qt3.14 I "met" through my brother's friend, she's more of a shut-in than me and she in a way made the first move by asking if we can meet up and see a movie sometime soon, I was biding my time til I land a job but I'm glad that she shot her shot and asked.
TL:DR: Depends on guy, but should be fine, just don't be agressive.

Might be just my personal experience but most of the couples i know the woman approached first
>my best friend (even helped her derive a plan how to snag him, they're now married)
>my brother
>my parents
Myself I'm currentely hitting on a dude that I know is way too shy to do it himself (still love him to bits).

But are they happy together?

I guess not heh

>this entire post

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I like it when a girl makes the first move. As long as you don't come across as too aggressive, most guys will like it I think.

she can if she wants. sometimes the guy is flattered if you is crushing hard and so is he and he too shy to take the first move.

Are you me?

no u

no. U

See this right here is just fucking female logic and is back ass wards when it comes to the actual situation at hand.

>Getting rejected basically tells a girl “You are an inferior subhuman”. That would destroy them. Men just dust themselves off and move on to the next girl.

Implying that guys don't feel like shit for getting rejected. It hurts no matter who you fucking are, the only difference is, women don't have to face rejection. The only reason a guy can "brush it off" is because they have learned to do so after being rejected again and again (and even then it still hurts, just less so). They have no other option but to. If they don't face rejection or pursue a women, then they end up alone. Simple as that. Women on the other hand can, and will, just sit back while others approach them. And sure you can argue about inherent value and all that other bullshit, but at the end of the day the reality is that; women don't have to do shit, and are too pussy to get out there and put themsleves on the line.

>Plus, it implies she’s a slut.

Women logic, enforced by other women. Only a small minority (and maybe a vocal minority) of guys actually think this. Most normal regular guys would be tickled pink that a women is interested enough in them to ask them out/pursue them. Really it's only women/incels who enforce this "if she pursues she's a slut" narrative. Give me an honest answer here; Do you hear guys in your life saying this, or other women?

Beyond this, she is only seen as a slut if she is obviously desperate. Just like a guy is viewed as pathetic if he's obviously desperate.

>For a woman to approach a guy is basically a free lunch on his part.

This implies a lot of things, including the tired old sterotype of "guys only want sex". Funny how women are allowed to break the mold, while guys have to stay within theirs.

1/?

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>For a woman to approach a guy is basically a free lunch on his part.

Cont.

For the most part (and I'm not saying all guys), men want a relationship and not sure pure sex. They want the comfy, whole hearted, touchy feely bullshit that comes with a relationship. They like them just as much as women do. It imply that the ONLY REASON a guy would be interested in women is sex, is honestly fucking autistic.

Beyond that, it also depends on the type of date that you go on. If your having sex with the guy on the first date, and he decides he doesn't like you, that's on you, and youd be right in saying that's a "free lunch". But for the most part, if your actually properly trying to date him, then that's more than likely what the guy cares about.

>It means her hunger (or desperation) for the cock has overriden her instinct to sit back and let him approach.

Again, woman logic enforced by mostly women. You can argue biological bullshit, but that's all it is. Bullshit. In reality I'd argue that it is a more learned behaviour from socialization, which is constantly enforced by women, rather than a purely biological behaviour. Also nice work at throwing women into a box again.

>Women suck at seducing guys.
This is true. (Again not all women though). You ever stop and think why it's true though? Two words: Plausable Deniability. It goes back to women having never really expirencing rejection on a regular basis. They are afraid of rejection just as much as guys, so rather than outwardly tell the guy they like him, they drop "hints" and all this bullshit. Why? Because if the guy rejects her, she can just say she was being friendly, or that it wasent anything and he is a creep for interpreting it that way. Seriously how many "signals/hints" can be interpreted as her just being friendly.
Just as a question.

>All in all, do what you think is right.

And this is all what it boils own to.

Grow some balls OP, ask men out.

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bump

WHY the fuck would you bump this fucking thread
What has not yet been said?

Not the guy, but I'm kinda glad he bumped it. Got to read through this shit which is cool.

That's a wholesome reply, thanks user

I think it's wholesome and based as well, but I have to wonder what women think of it. OP seems like a guy, so his views come from that of a guys.

I just kind of wonder if femanos would agree or disagree with what was said.

>comparing breaking up to having your advances rejected
really now

Of course you can.

Anecdotally speaking, this has never worked for me.
I've really tried all kinds. And I've managed to score dates with a couple guys when I make the first move, but never anything serious. It winds up going dry within weeks if not less time.
Whereas when I make the guy do the work, it's turned into a relationship or least gone on long enough to really get to know them.

Best of luck to you though, you might have better luck than I.

in highschool most girls that liked me didn't make any moves but I found out months later they liked me and was suprised, a couple girls did one asked me out straight up and another sent a pic of her from the shower not nude but suggestive.

as a guy I can say I really appreciate it when the girl makes the first move and I say go for it he might regret not dating you a year ago I know I do with some girls, who gives a fuck if your too direct be confident and and say fuck it and try your luck. I really hope it goes well for you and that this helps.

>the double standard
classic women

Men say they don't mind when women approach, but it's just like women saying they like nice guys.

Most of the time: that is BS. They'll drop that easy on in a sec for something they actually have to work for.

I fucking looove it when a girl makes the first move, because sometimes I really can't tell what you fucks are thinking