How can atheists persist in the face of irrefutable proof...

>How can atheists persist in the face of irrefutable proof?
What's your argument? To go read a book that doesnt prove a God exists? I'm confused, what specifically is the proof that you didnt post for some reason?

>I know there is no god
How?

>Who gives a shit about atheists?
I'm one and I agree. Who gives a Turkey what you are, just have a coherent reason if you're discussing it on a discussion board.
>They're literally the dumbest motherfuckers around
Based on what exactly?

Well, for starters (pun intended!) there’s the “first mover” argument. If for every action there’s an equal and opposite reaction then there must have been an initial action to create the universe? What could it have been other than God?

your nigger mama?

>If for every action there’s an equal and opposite reaction then there must have been an initial action to create the universe
Vague, but ok
>What could it have been other than God?
An argument from ignorance fallacy? Come on. Give me another one, you've already soiled this one.

Krauss said something like there was nothing, but nothingness is unstable...buncha quantum particles popping in and out of existence til some kinda combo results in an “explosion” of expanding space time, and there ya go. Also he’s a leaf faggot.

So God is an action, what caused God?

Common sense.

>What could it have been other than God?
You jumped to conclusion there. Assuming that the argument for a first mover is sound, the only property we can positively ascribe to this first mover is that it was a first mover. End of.

>common sense
Common sense isnt proof for a God not existing.

>An argument from ignorance fallacy? Come on. Give me another one, you've already soiled this one.
For things to exist there needs to be an objective definition of what it is. Since all of our perspectives are subjective, only God can have an objective perspective of existence.

First, answer my fucking question Second, how can anyone objectively know what god is? And if we can't then why should we believe anything about him?

>For things to exist there needs to be an objective definition of what it is
Is this in response to your argument from ignorance? Or have we moved on? But no, words are prescriptive, we give them meaning. That's how we talk with others, using similar definitions to be able to coherently make a point that the other person can grasp. If you think my definition of something is wrong, tell me and state your definition so we can find common ground.
>Since all of our perspectives are subjective, only God can have an objective perspective of existence
You've asserted God into this equation without providing any evidence to suggest he exists. Why?

Calm down, guy. He doesnt have to respond to you if he doesnt want to. Lol.

So you can understand why people dont believe in a God now, hopefully.

>irrefutable proof
Best laugh I've had all day! That was so good, here's another (You)!

>a God not existing
There have been thousands of gods already that never existed. Why would this one or the next be any different?

The Urantia Book explains everything.

>I know there is no god. Youre
Can't even use apostrophes.... knows God doesn't exist....

If you make a claim stating something doesnt exist, you need to show proof against it while demonstrating its non-existence. I dont know how you would do that.
>Why would this one or the next be any different?
Argument from ignorance.

The stupidity of Christians will always amaze me. It's with good reason 10,000 churches close for good each year in America.

And before you all say it yes fuck Muslims too.

>It's with good reason 10,000 churches close for good each year in America
Yeah, that's turned out great.

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>turned out great
Are you implying something with your picture?

It sure has! A less religious populous is a more educated populous. No superstitious baggage to be biased with.

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That America is now nothing but a degenerate, consumer based shit hole that is steadily demographically replacing its own posterity, while caught in a pathologically altruist and nihilistic post-Christian dialectic.

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>That America is now nothing but a degenerate, consumer based shit hole
Nothing to do with atheism.
>that is steadily demographically replacing its own posterity, while caught in a pathologically altruist and nihilistic post-Christian dialectic
Nothing to do with atheism. Atheism is a single % group in the US, atheism didnt do this.

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And?

Use your words, I believe in you.

reification isn't proof, it's fallacy.

>what is philosophy of science
protip: the scientific method is a philosophical construct, under epistemology, and the concept of falsifiability came from philosophy

philosophy is necessary for the concepts of proof and science to exist, science is reliant on epistemological and ontological foundations. science is literally a method of philosophy.

OP is a retard, though.

youtube.com/user/LaneCh/videos

youtube.com/user/AominOrg

youtube.com/user/DrOakley1689

Good channels, hopefully they help people.

youtube.com/watch?v=97k4z6Qe7JM&t=18s

A true Gospel presentation. Hopefully those who haven't heard watch, and those who have can share this.

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Atheists are the most supportive demographic, in regards to religion/worldview of the liberal agenda in relation to all other peoples. Nearly 80% of all those who identify with that particular worldview, also adhere to the liberal agenda today. Which, of course, includes demographic replacement and degenerate idolatry.

Add in the data from chapter 4 of "Bowling Alone" which demonstrates the collapse of religion in America from 1950s onward. Only to give way to hippy degeneracy within 15 years and we can clearly see the modern day America begin to arise, in the wake of the once Christian society.

>a single % group is supportive
And?

you can't prove a negative

And? You are unable to infer?

Most of those so-called, "atheists" are, in reality, irreligious Jews and gays. The degeneracy on display in are the result of this minority usurping the Democratic Party leadership and forcing a formerly liberal (but patriotic and moral) voting bloc to embrace the hard left.

Religion doesn't disappear. You remove Christ (or the others) and in the vacuum is born the worship of the self and desire (idolatry) - perfectly fine for the consumer corporate fascism under which we live.

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AMERICANS ARE SO RETARDED
LMAO

We are all the result of the Big Splooge theory.

Before we get into "liberal agenda" talk let's be very clear. Atheists are such a small minority its rediculous to act as if they're important, they aren't. Especially with how thin atheists are spread and how few children they're having.

Here's the scary thing for Christian's though, lots of "christians" dont know the bible, dont attend church regularly, and dont call themselves atheist because they're afraid of speaking out. Where I live it's not a question if a local is religious, its "what church do you go to?". That kind of social pressure has hollowed out christianity. Now there are plenty of "christians" who are pro abortion, pro gay rights, pro weed, etc. Theres a hell of a lot of these atheists in everything but name and you better get after them. They're a bigger threat .

>And? You are unable to infer?
No, I'm very obviously demonstrating that a single % of people voting a certain way means nothing, they have zero push in any lawmaking that occurs here.
>Most of those so-called, "atheists" are, in reality, irreligious Jews and gays
Prove this assertion. I'm genuinely interested in seeing evidence to suggest this is true.
>this minority usurping the Democratic Party leadership and forcing a formerly liberal (but patriotic and moral) voting bloc to embrace the hard left.
You're claiming atheists made up the left somehow? A small group forced the almost whole left leaning political side to do something? Extraordinary. I have no clue where you got this information from, but I'm interested in this as well.

Then why are people claiming God doesnt exist?

>atheists are spread and how few children they're having.
If all atheists die out tomorrow, could there still be atheists in the future?

The rise of Atheism and collapse of Christianity in your country has directly correlated with the collapse of moral virtue in your society. You can play semantics and pull the 1% card (only referring to the fedora tipping edge lords), all you want but when you factor in the 22% "having no religion", which I would argue are therefore clearly atheistic in their worldview, it loses all its weight.

So, the fastest growing worldview the last half century in America has been of an atheistic variety, and this has corresponded with the rise of demographic replacement and degenerate idolatry being socially acceptable policies. It's clear that the less religious a society gets (and therefore the more atheistic) the less moral structure and virtues they have.

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(philosophy)#Proving_a_negative

>you can play semantics
Refuting your points isnt semantics
>The rise of Atheism and collapse of Christianity in your country has directly correlated with the collapse of moral virtue in your society
What a nonsensical claim this is, because you dont agree with what others are doing it means there's a "collapse"? I dont know why you think I care about your opinion, but unfortunately feelings arent an argument.
>You can play semantics and pull the 1% card
Atheism is a single digit percent in the US from what ive seen.
>but when you factor in the 22% "having no religion"
Isnt classified as atheism. Agnostics can still be theists, people who dont claim they dont believe in a God arent atheist. You trying to lump other non related people into it is dishonest.
>and this has corresponded with the rise of demographic replacement and degenerate idolatry being socially acceptable policies
Correlation =/= causation
>It's clear that the less religious a society gets (and therefore the more atheistic) the less moral structure and virtues they have.
It's clear to whom? How did you determine this to actually be the case, instead of your very obvious bias.

Anybody who denies the fact that God exists is an absolute moron.

Then prove he exists

People arn't claiming God doesn't exist.
They are claiming there is insufficient reason to believe in a God.
Think of it like a courtroom. We don't declare someone "innocent". We say they are "not guilty". As in "we looked at all the evidence we could and did not have sufficient reason to reasonable consider this defendant Guilty."
An Atheist is someone who looks at the arguments given to believe in God and says "not guilty", since proving a negative is impossible.

There are a few people who believe there are philosophical proofs sufficient to declare God "innocent" aka definitely does not exist. But this are esoteric arguments pursued by few philosophers . Overwhelming most atheists are concerned with the 'is there sufficient argument to have a positive belief in" question. Not the 'is there a logical proof that god does not exist" question.

This is the difference between Gnosis (knowledge) and Belief. I may not 'know' that a certain economic policy will work in the same way i 'know' 2+2=4. But I may have certainly belief that higher prices will reduce demand due the overwhelming evidence. In the end very few things are 'knowable' in logical philosophical sense. We are Bayesian creatures, working off of what we think are the prior probabilities of things.
So most atheists are what are called Agnostic Atheist. On the knowledge side they are "Agnostic: I do not know" but on the belief side they are "Atheist: I do not believe".

Consider this in a nonreligious sense. What exists in your life that you do not "know' is correct but still you do not 'believe' to be true. Economics is a common one. For example, perhaps you do not 'know' the Monetarist Chicago School of Economics is wrong yet still you don't not 'believe' they are correct. Perhaps you 'believe' another school of economics is correct.

I hope that clarifies things. Sorry for the wall of text.

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See This is who I started that discussion with. I'm an atheist trying to explain to him why the antitheist argument doesnt make sense.

But a sound post regardless. One of the few people on pol who understand atheism.

>I think God is real
>that means he is!
It's like you "people" just dont know what proof means. Your feelings are not proof of anything except you being an emotional womanish bitch.

>Using worldly (proof) to prove the existence of the architect of the world

Atheist brainlets display their "intelligence" once again. If you can't acknowledge God that's on you for falling for jewish tricks.

>its religion, I ain't gotta explain shit
If your position has no reasoning behind it(and no "thinking of something makes it real" is not reasoning) then your position is retarded.
>If you can't acknowledge God
Oh, yes, I've been so tricked into not acknowledging something that doesn't exist.

If there is nothing to demonstrate god in the observable universe, why do you believe in him?

If God doesn't exist, that is to say if a creator of some sort does not exist, then our existence was not planned. We were not planned or created with a purpose. We just came into existence unplanned. It would make our existence seem like a random event, like a randomly generated number, except with even less meaning. Because if something is not created, if it just pops into existence as a result of pure randomness, then there was no purpose for it to exist.

You might say to yourself "Well, my life does have purpose. My purpose is *insert something I choose to be my purpose here*" but that is not the same thing as actually having real, objective purpose. All the things you can choose to give your life purpose are things that are chosen by you, a being who was not created for a purpose. You are fundamentally a purposeless being, and any purpose you assign yourself is subjective and ultimately meaningless. Just because it makes you feel good, or makes your life feel less empty, does not mean that it is an actual objective purpose.

And if your life doesn't have purpose? What then? If you're asking "What's the point if you're the result of pure randomness and were not planned, that nothing matters? Get to the point!". That's the thing, there is no point. Without God, without a creator, nothing can be held responsible for the existence of things. If everything exists out of pure randomness, then nothing was created with purpose. Nothing was created at all. So there really is no point, no purpose, no meaning. This is what it means to not believe in God. It's like accepting that you were never desired to exist, you were never planned to exist, you were never desired, that nothing about you matters, and you will never matter. You have less meaning than a randomly generated number.

That is the most depressing, defeatist, "cuck" mentality I have ever heard of. I don't care if there's no proof for it, I will simply not accept this view.

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oh shit. my bad. I didn't see that guy.
I've flirted with the Gnostically anti-theist arguments before, for what it's worth.
Although I think the topic of Igtheism is more interesting.
As Confucius would say, the first thing to be achieved is the rectification of names. It is frustrating when I can make no prediction about what people are actually referring to when they use the word "God".

The most reasonable Gnostic Anti-theist argument i've found so far depends on your position on logical contradictions and you definition of God. Consider the following steps.

Step 1. You think you can say that you 'know' that logical contradictions cannot exist, like a married bachelor for example.
Step 2. You think an entity sufficient of the title "God" must be "all powerful".
Step 3. You think for something to be considered 'All Powerful' it should be able to make logical contradictions, like married bachelors or square circles.
Step 4. If logical contradictions cannot exist and any being worthy of being considered God must be 'all powerful to the point of being able to make logical contradictions' then we can assert that "God cannot exist".

Note that this is very dependent on how you define your terms and only addresses one form of God. If i recall correctly Catholics believe that God exists and can be reasonably considered God but cannot make logical contradictions for example. It also does not address 'incredibly powerful unknowable spooky beings that create shit and then fuck off without a trace.' It address a very limited subject matter.

that's my piss poor attempt to explain the most plebian philosophical defense of asserting "God does not exist". I'm not saying it's true, just trying to present it reasonably.

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>That is the most depressing, defeatist, "cuck" mentality I have ever heard of. I don't care if there's no proof for it, I will simply not accept this view.

The irony in this post is too much. You call people who can deal with the nothingness of the universe and cut their piece out with their own will Cucks while calling out for someone to just give you some kind of use and meaning. Are you too weak to stand on your own? What do you think your God gave you Free Will for? So you can get your life dictated?

Get a hold of yourself.

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So believing that a space man created the entire universe in a few days is common sense

Hah, no worries. It's a long thread.
>It is frustrating when I can make no prediction about what people are actually referring to when they use the word "God"
And then when you ask they assume obvit's obvious, and then they try and cant. It's a whole thing. But that's the even bigger issue with antitheism, you have to somehow know all the conceivable gods that people assert exist. I personally dont get it, but oh well.

>Are you too weak to stand on your own?
This isn't about weakness or strength. If you were not created, you do not have purpose. Any purpose you give yourself is subjective. No amount of strength can change that any more than you fooling yourself.

If you were not created, if there was no purpose for you to be here, then you will never have objective purpose. At best you will have lies you can tell yourself to feel good or to feel strong.

And that is what makes you a cuck.

What is the proof that god exists ? If tomorrow I tell you that I am the messenger of God, do you believe me ?

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>If you were not created, you do not have purpose
Assertion.
>Any purpose you give yourself is subjective
And still purpose.
>If you were not created, if there was no purpose for you to be here, then you will never have objective purpose
Ok.
>At best you will have lies you can tell yourself to feel good or to feel strong.
I dont have to lie to myself.why would you waste time here lying to yourself? If i like something and do it, is that a lie?

I see that you have difficulty discerning between objective and subjective.

Enjoy your slave-morality, Friend.

Imagine being this retarded. I've yet to see a Jow Forumstard even attempt to dismantle published science proving climate change

and of course i'm too tired to even link right.

If I knew your best response would have been to call me a slave with a smug sense of superiority, I would not have bothered typing that post. Then again, why expect better from an anonymous cave painting board.

if there universe doesn't have an external observer to give intent to things then things are purposeless.
I'm incapable of having a satisfying life without someone else determining my purpose.
I don't want to be sad.
Therefor a God exists.

Is a shit argument. If something is true that would make you sad, you don't want to be sad, therefor something must exist? Really?

Fucking man up. Accept life as it is and move on. Your inability to handle an universe without an external being that intended everything in it doesn't mean that an external creater must exist.

It just means that you are mentally weak.
Not all of us are as weak as you are.

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Gee, it's almost like you aren't here regularly.

Read some of those works in my uni philosophy class. Each of these 'proofs' can be easily proven fallacious. Prof. should oblivious problems all of them. EZ shit.

Most of them are just like.

>Universe exists
>Everything has a cause
>What's the cause of the universe then?
GODD HURP DURP

>assumes christian god over infinitely many other causes

Also if you say "everything has a cause" and then list God as something that exists. That mothafucka need a cause too. Christards

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i am not trying to be an ass to you. Slave Morality is a term. I am too tired so i am just going to wikiquote like an idiot for you.

" According to Nietzsche, masters are creators of morality; to which slaves respond to master-morality with their slave-morality. Unlike master morality, which is sentiment, slave morality is based on re-sentiment—devaluing that which the master values and the slave does not have. As master morality originates in the strong, slave morality originates in the weak. Because slave morality is a reaction to oppression, it vilifies its oppressors. Slave morality is the inverse of master morality. As such, it is characterized by pessimism and cynicism. Slave morality is created in opposition to what master morality values as "good".

Slave morality does not aim at exerting one's will by strength, but by careful subversion. It does not seek to transcend the masters, but to make them slaves as well. The essence of slave morality is utility:The good is what is most useful for the whole community, not just the strong. Nietzsche saw this as a contradiction. Since the powerful are few in number, compared to the masses of the weak, the weak gain power by corrupting the strong into believing that the causes of slavery (viz., the will to power) are "evil", as are the qualities the weak originally could not choose because of their weakness. By saying humility is voluntary, slave morality avoids admitting that their humility was in the beginning forced upon them by a master. Biblical principles of humility, charity, and pity are the result of universalizing the plight of the slave onto all humankind, and thus enslaving the masters as well. "The democratic movement is the heir to Christianity"—the political manifestation of slave morality because of its obsession with freedom and equality. "

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I dont.

>Just accept that you don't matter, and that nothing you do will matter.

Nah. Just because you and the others chose to accept such a shitty idea doesn't mean I have to. Even if it doesn't make logical sense, even if it is a shitty argument, I won't do it.

You're the one who has taken what was given to him and chose to accept it. Settling for this, a reality where nothing matters, is precisely why it is a defeatist ideology.

None of that relates to what we are talking about here. It seems like you wanted to make a connection to something you've read in order to sound intelligent.

The atheist position is incoherent and self refuting. The logical conclusion of their worldview is meaninglessness and yet they delude themselves into thinking that somehow pulling a purpose from their ass and sniffing it makes their life meaningful. What incoherent illogical nonsense. They're just atoms bouncing around a predestined universe maaan, and this somehow makes them distinct from all the other horseshit garbage of causal chains to give them a "self" and "identity over time" and all the metaphysical/ontological doodads they screech don't exist and yet use EVERY FUCKING DAY to EXIST and demand you accept "their" "rationality" because you "should" because they say so because FUCK YOU reasons science. They ask "HURR WheReZ Da ProOfz oFf UR Ski DahDee?" while simultaneously using the metaphysical, ethical, and epistemologI called preconditions of our worldview to deny it and deny themselves. It's literally the same old satanic inversion garbage of yore vomited out in a modern veneer. But don't mind them, it's all relative bro.

Anyway, I'm going to bed, but I hope some of you have learned why it is a defeatist mentality to believe that you have risen to existence out of pure randomness.

You didnt even respond to me

That's not atheism.

>The atheist position is incoherent and self refuting
Lack of belief in a god/gods is all atheism is, but you built a strawman like did and argued against it. Congrats.

Unironically one of the better arguments is that boomer mom facebook post about the twin fetuses in the womb talking about the "afterlife" and "omnipresent mother".

It starts with recognizing that there undoubtedly is a natural force of reason behind the world. none of this 13 year old edgy "lief is chaos and sufrin :DDDD" shit. A belief in an omnipresent watcher more intelligent than you helps considerably. Realization that life is beautiful and wonderful, that you're more than the animals and plants. Then comes the recognition of the benevolence and love of this force that allows you to make mistakes, terrible ones even, and continue to live this beautiful and wonderful life.

Finally, a recognition that this benevolent loving force which set up your entire existence has given you a list of rules, expectations, and an incredible tool to understand and appreciate it while setting you up for success, peace, and reason. That is the holy and perfect Word of God that we know today as the KJV.

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None of what you've posed here as an argument for God. None of it logically leads to a God existing, nor is any of it evidence to suggest a God exists.

ok

I can go through it point-by-point if you'd like, I realize my post was lazy

ok

because, bro, like sky daddy pastafarians are the epitome of intellectuals.

everything that begins to exist has a cause

the universe began to exist

the universe has a cause

Done.

As for why it is the Christian God, revelation has plenty of prophecy about christians being beheaded in the name of a false abrahamic god, that false god having an image that 1/4 of the world will bow to or be killed (Mecca, 1/4th the world population is Muslim), and the stories of the antichrist were written 600 years before the Quran and Quran eschatology is basically the polar opposite of the Bible's, clearly to mislead people into following the antichrist. Antichrist in Bible = Messiah in Quran

>It starts with recognizing that there undoubtedly is a natural force of reason behind the world
This is an assertion, you can't start with this point if you're a nonbeliever.
>A belief in an omnipresent watcher more intelligent than you helps considerably
That's just an immediate change in belief without evidence.
>Then comes the recognition of the benevolence and love of this force that allows you to make mistakes
How do you assert it's a God?
>Then comes the recognition of the benevolence and love of this force that allows you to make mistakes, terrible ones even, and continue to live this beautiful and wonderful life.
Are we? this is an appeal to emotion, it's not going to sway anyone here.
>Finally, a recognition that this benevolent loving force which set up your entire existence has given you a list of rules, expectations, and an incredible tool to understand and appreciate it while setting you up for success, peace, and reason
I don't know how you even know that. But also, how did you attribute this to not only a God, but yours?