Median household income adjusted by purchasing power is 30 percent higher in the US than here in Germany

>I'm not racist and don't have a problem with black people.
I think the issue is Black peoples' major culture, not the fact that they're Black. They apparently have a culture of aversion to education and work; of having children and living off the government; of men abandoning their partners and kids/broken homes, and of course, gangs, drugs, and lots of crime.
They are the reason you *need* guns for basic safety in the US. It is not racist to acknowledge these factual realities - and I recommend you do acknowledge them.

(It is only racist if you pre-judge a person as having done all the above things, just because his physique is Black).

But, I do have a question for you, OP

I'm a pajeet that grew up in New Zealand. I am fully Western and specifically am a Western culturist; very concerned about the destruction of the West by the Radical Left, and hostile external cultural invasion.

I've always toyed with the idea of maybe living in Germany or other European states for a while. However, the refugee crisis happened i recent years, and now you are going through a terrible irreversible destruction of your civilization due to globalist politicians.

Now, I'm wondering if I should go or not - because I look exactly like the fuckers ruining your countries and raping your women.

What do you think?

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>They apparently have a culture of aversion to education and work; of having children and living off the government; of men abandoning their partners and kids/broken homes, and of course, gangs, drugs, and lots of crime.
Do you know anything about post Civil War America or do you actually think that black people living in impoverished conditions is a cultural choice? If you don't know anything about the socioeconomic system that has lead black people to where they are today I'd love to tell you about it.

>cultural choice?
Different user
My best friend is married to an African girl, as in from Africa.
She is extremely intelligent, hot as hell, and hard working. She also has a bunch of other friends, male and female, also from Africa and they are all very successful.
They think American Blacks are stupid lazy uneducated whiners. She calls them the Swahili word for "villagers", basically the equivalent term of our "white trash."

What is the average yearly income in Germany?

lmao it's fucking incredible to watch yuropoors shit their pants, as if the quality of life for blacks and hispanics should even be considered within the realm of possibility for an educated white man

Lol someone is butthurt

Looks are really not the problem, go for it if you want to. Germany isn't that bad yet, I'm mostly lamenting the stagnating wages and the failure of our politicians in regards to social security and foreign policy.

MENA immigration is only problematic because they don't integrate themselves into European society and radicalize.

>They think American Blacks are stupid lazy uneducated whiners.
A lot of people think that and, unfortunately, I think its due to a lack of education on their part. There is a lot wrong with the black community but I think understanding how this came to be is just as important as understanding where to go from here. Anybody who thinks that living in ghettos, resorting to crime to survive and not having access to proper education is a cultural choice is just ignorant of post Civil War American history.

Ignorant post.

You do realize most black people go out and make something of their lives? Just the shitty ones who want to be lazy and rape the government are the ones who get the most attention

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income
This is gross disposable income per capita. The average German makes 36000$ per year compared to the United State's 46000$.

Though it gets more messy if you factor in taxes, purchasing power, median instead of average (because averages are skewed upwards by million/billionaires). But the US scores better than any other nation in terms of disposable income regardless of that. And it's a significant amount.

>Ignorant post.
I'd like for you to explain how the lack of access to business loans, land ownership, generational wealth, positions in the government and Jim Crowe laws didn't affect the socioeconomic growth of the black community.
>You do realize most black people go out and make something of their lives?
We're not talking about them. We're talking about the impoverished. If you're trying to imply that successful black people are living proof that being unsuccessful is a choice then that is completely illogical. That assertion has no basis in reality.
>Just the shitty ones who want to be lazy and rape the government are the ones who get the most attention
Again, what lead to the creation of ghettos and government housing? What lead to the creation of government assistance and why doesn't it work? Instead of spreading rhetoric I'd like you to provide some kind of cohesive retort. Calling my post ignorant isn't an argument.

>to business loans, land ownership, generational wealth
My African immigrant friends came with literally nothing except their clothes. All have college degrees. All have good jobs and good families. What they have in common is that they work their asses off all of the time.
Except when they dance, damn they are good at that.

Dumb fuck.

Impoverished niggers are no different than white trash.

You racist fuck

Wow this is very interesting. I really thought Western Europe would be €60k/yr.

I’m an American with no uni degree, and in 3 years I’ll be making over $100k/yr. all of my friends make over $100k/yr and only a few have degrees.

I've lived in both places and prefer the tight-assed Switzerland over get-rich-quick-or-bust USA.

Like half of the USA busted pretty hard. Oh sure, only 15% or so are officially counted as poor, but like half the population makes less than $30-40k a year. And well, pic related sucks.

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>but like half the population makes less than $30-40k a year

Something you forget is cost of living per location. You can live comfortably on $30-40k in most places anywhere outside of major cities

How you estimate disposable income and how you construct you PPP have a huge influence on what numbers you end up with.

On this unadjusted ranking, like the top 20 are just basically very rich & could do "anything" they cared to as nations:
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita

If you are somewhat to very wealthy in these countries, you're doing great.

How old are you OP?

21 in two months.

Ignore Europeans who post about US-- I don't know why but as soon as you mention the USA to Europoors their sandy vaginas start vigorously bleeding. It's not a discussion at that point, it's just being some emotionally stunted manbaby's caretaker. Leave them to their mothers.

So you want to immigrate. Hooray!
>it's all hard mode
>it doesn't always go the way you think
>you're liable to end up in a foreign country with no connections

Until you've landed a job in that country everything is pretty speculative and you'd benefit from spending more time trying to find a foothold in either country than on debating the semantics of which is better.
Oh, and US is better. Right now, Europe is putting social justice and feelings above actual lawkeeping and example-setting. If you're gonna immigrate, do it right, flee the fucking continent. Europe is dangerously close to a state of affairs wherein crime is ignored and thoughts are policed. Trump, at least, has no interest in selling out to pussies like the UK.

> You can live comfortably on $30-40k in most places anywhere outside of major cities
Probably not when raising kids.

Even if you don't have any kids you aren't usually able to build any reserves that would let you actually pay a weeks / months in hospital or whatever else. Also you'll generally be on a very thin purse when you retire.

Basically, if feels like you're just sliding towards being completely fucked if you're at the $30k salary level, and running on fairly little reserves at the $40k level (granted, spending more than the $30k people also plays into it, else of course you'd amass more substantial savings).

Of course US optimism would suggest it's all gonna be great and you'll get pay raises and what not, but that's not usually how the situation already looks in US towns and cities right now. And my guess is it's getting worse. Well, the numbers say it is. Loan payments per citizen never mind tax payer went up, inflation happens, costs of living are typically rising, US government debt will have to be repaid sooner or later...

Cost-of-living in North America is often a number espoused by people who think it's okay to go to an """organic""" food store to buy a chicken breast at like 20$. They think cost of living equates to 17/hr but fail to realize people live, eat and drive a car on 13/hr.
It's about discipline. A lot of poverty in NA is self-induced.

>My African immigrant friends came with literally nothing except their clothes. All have college degrees. All have good jobs and good families. What they have in common is that they work their asses off all of the time.
Your anecdotal evidence doesn't mean much of anything. Knowing some successful people doesn't really have anything to do with the hard statistics of wealth distribution in the United States. We're also specifically talking about people born into impoverished black communities, not African immigrants. The assertion that the only reason poor people are poor is because they're lazy is antiquated, ignorant and verifiably false. So, for the third time, I'd really like some sort of cohesive retort, not just some anecdotal musing about some people you've met.
>Impoverished niggers are no different than white trash.
Socioeconomically, they are very different. If you did a little bit of research you'd see that black and white poverty have very different economic foot prints. I do suspect, however, that you're more interested in being edgy than having an informed opinion.

>Do you know anything about post Civil War America or do you actually think that black people living in impoverished conditions is a cultural choice?

You will note that I made no assumption as to *why* the culture was so. Simply that it was.

Regardless, I subscribe to the belief that it is in fact both afterimages of economic subjugation *and* cultural choice that contribute to the plight of Black people today. I think people who discount either are naive or ideologically motivated. But I will readily admit that, despite having an incidentally American education, including American history, I am no expert on the subject. At the same time, I doubt I know less than you average middle-class American.

IMO the hypothesis that Black people have no agency to change their situation in the current day is blown apart by the journey of East and South Asian immigrants to your country. These ethno-cultural minorities arrived with little, and were also discriminated against, disrespected, and excluded. However, instead of focussing on their victimhood, they acted according to their cultural imperatives of education focus, family focus, and civic duty. They integrated, worked their fingers to the bone to provide opportunity for their children, and in a few short generations are now the most economically successful groups in the entire country.

My own parents came to New Zealand with $2000 and nothing more - at a time when meaningful racism was still around. They struggled terribly for a long time, not being given jobs etc. Despite this they still managed to provide for us kids and set us up with great opportunity in life. They did this by sacrificing much. They were on welfare once, now, after decades and hard, hard work, they own two homes

Everything I said in the previous posts applies directly also to the Maori people of New Zealand. They were the indigenous ethno-cultural group subjugated for a long time by European colonizers; it's only in recent decades that

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Proper equality of opportunity has been realized for all groups in New Zealand. In the case of the Maori though, it’s positive discrimination currently.
There is a sizable culture of welfare dependence, gangs, and crime – just like Black people in the US.

I used to do some work with a charity that focussed on this very demographic of our society. I knew such people over years. They have no intention of working for themselves or contributing to society. It is standard MO to make up disabilities, and/or just have kids to receive constant welfare. They do not provide sufficiently for the kids either. It is all too common for money to be spend on alcohol or drugs, and for the children to go hungry.

NZ has the highest rates of child abuse and domestic violence in the developed world. It is an unspoken understanding that almost all the stats come from one or few ethno-cultural groups.
From what I’ve heard about Black people in the US, it is much of the same story. And if it’s true, then yeah, I know exactly the mentality behind the economic reality, and my evaluation is valid.

The West has made massive strides in providing equality of opportunity within its societies. Real racism does not exist in New Zealand. It may exist in the US, but I sincerely doubt it is enough to really keep a person down in this day and age. People do not care about race in 2018. They do care about culture – as they should.

There is certainly something to be said about intergenerational poverty. I make no claim that elevation would be easy – in fact, no other groups would likely have it harder. But, when a society offers so many infrastructural helping hands to a person, elevation gets placed firmly within the realm of agency-contingent possibility.

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> It's about discipline. A lot of poverty in NA is self-induced.
And maybe the other half is circumstances beyond (reasonable) individual control.

OTOH if you could gather motivation, get another education and a decent-paid job from that situation it'd be okay, many would manage to break their habits and prosper. But that's probably not going to happen in reality in the USA, not in most places.

But I’m not the only one with these views. I have listened to Black American public figures such as Larry Elder, who have very hard-hitting facts about the situation regarding racism in the US, and the situation of Black people.
I recommend watching this at some point if you have the time: youtube.com/watch?v=IFqVNPwsLNo

Apologies for this Jow Forums-tier image. It does not differentiate culture and race. but it's an interesting concept to consider re the filename.

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Nobody wants to sacrifice. I'm sure there are pitiable cases who are just hard-set upon, but I've seen (currently live with) people who think that life is doing this to them and I can assure you, everything these people suffer they do to themselves.

Cut corners.
Easy ways out.
Shortcuts.
Half-assing.
Fighting fire with fire.
Beating stress with substance.
Playing favouritism.
And, of course, my favourite... Negative mindset from start to finish. What good to happen to you, if you can shit in a gift horse's mouth?

No, I'm beyond that sad story. There are avenues for the truly besmirched, but as far as I'm concerned most of the """poverty""" is just people unwilling to live within their means, or unwilling to make sacrifices to make ends meet. I'm talking smokes and booze take precedence over food, I'm talking luxuries and fripperies go without a second thought and then they choose which bill to pay, I'm talking people who refuse to do a n y t h i n g to move, improve or even just slightly change their lots in life. It's not like it's gonna be fun, faggots, nobody said that. It's life. We said it'd get you a hell of a lot closer to where you say you want to be than would bitching and moaning.

If you can cook, don't need your food to come in a box and you understand some basics about nutrients, you can live a perfectly healthy life.

And for the record I'd just like to say having a kid you can't afford is retarded. We even have multiple solutions if you don't want/can't have it, and yet people insist on MUH FEELINGS.

The absolute state of things.

>You will note that I made no assumption as to *why* the culture was so.
No, but using the world "culture" to describe an involuntary socioeconomic condition was an assumption of its own. It was extremely presumptive and you used that specific wording on purpose so lets not sit here and pretend like you we both didn't know exactly what you meant.

>I subscribe to the belief that it is in fact both afterimages of economic subjugation *and* cultural choice that contribute to the plight of Black people today. I think people who discount either are naive or ideologically motivated.
So, in that case I'd like you to prove it. Historians and economists can sit with the statistics of wealth distribution, gentrification and generational wealth and draw a statistical line from the Civil War until now and highlight exactly why the black community is impoverished. I'd like you to provide any evidence whatsoever that there was a point in time in which financial and educational prosperity was a choice with a statistical likelihood for white Americans and that they consciously chose to remain in subjugation. If you want to claim that people who discount your claim are naive and ideologically motivated then it wouldn't bother you too much to provide any kind of historically based rationality behind your opinion.
>IMO the hypothesis that Black people have no agency to change their situation in the current day is blown apart by the journey of East and South Asian immigrants to your country.
One million times false. Not only did you create a strawman by stating that I'm arguing that black people have "no agency" (which I never said), but you're also trying to compare the immigration of two completely separate histories. While asian immigrants were discriminated and violently oppressed you're comparing apples and orangesl. Jim Crowe did not affect asian immigrants the same way they affected blacks. Thats just history.

> However, instead of focussing on their victimhood, they acted according to their cultural imperatives of education focus, family focus, and civic duty. They integrated, worked their fingers to the bone to provide opportunity for their children, and in a few short generations are now the most economically successful groups in the entire country.
Again, the assumption that poor people are poor because they're lazy is a centuries old misconception. Every president since 1908 would completely disagree with you. Their policies are evidence of that. You obviously know nothing about wealth distribution or economics in America if you genuinely believe that. You're also comparing immigrants from economic powerhouses like Japan, Korea and China to American born citizens who don't have any family or generational wealth in their country of origin.
>My own parents came to New Zealand with $2000 and nothing more - at a time when meaningful racism was still around.
Your anecdotal story about your parents has nothing to do with statistics.

Why do blacks not make as much money as whites? Its because our economy was set up so that they never did. This image is very fascinating but its not seeing the forest for the trees. Why do blacks, historically, not own as many businesses, land or other means of generating as much wealth as white Americans? The answer is in our past. This economy of this country was specifically set up post Civil War to ensure that blacks never ever ever made as much money or gained as much power as whites. Blacks weren't allowed to buy land or own businesses or invest into the early infrastructure of America such as the textile, steel, automotive or agricultural industries. Indentured servitude made sure that even if they broke their backs working they would receive none of the revenue and perpetually exist in a state of debt. Blacks had no houses, businesses, property or assets to pass down to their children. Its the reason why all of the 150 year old corporations in this country are owned by white families. This country purposefully economically crippled the black community and now complains that its a burden? You think welfare and food stamps are a viable way out of poverty? Thats statistically false. Business loans are. College loans are. After school programs, vocational rehabilitation, family services and a well funded educational system are. Every study on the planet has proven that treatment and counseling is the most effective way of combatting drug abuse yet incarceration is at an all time high. As soon as prisons became privatized the few educational programs that prisons used to offer to rehabilitate its inmates were cut. These are all relevant facts. You may have the hard hitting facts about wealth in America but not the reason why those facts came to be. Educate yourself, user.

That surely also happens, but I've seen too many people in the USA that 3/4 assed their efforts and got nowhere.

There aren't actually that many opportunities to escape poverty in the USA, and there are really many to slide into relative [enough to be on a downward slide as you age with no real maneuvering room to gain leverage or fix shit] or serious poverty.

People just like to pretend there are a gazillion ways because then really they won't be saddled with helping others, even if this isn't actually the case. But it's actually the case that they can ill afford helping others, being at the limits themself - few got any significant savings or lucrative investments, many got debts. So this is the more convenient or even necessary way to look at the situation.

>There aren't actually that many opportunities to escape poverty in the USA
Is it because of the high cost of college education?

>The answer is conveniently beyond our power and it falls to anyone but the victim to fix it

I'm the user whose posts espouse the idea that the impoverished do it to themselves and I want to thank you for driving that home.

It's nice that things sucked back then but they also sucked for pretty much anyone who wasn't first-worlder American, including most likely some European immigrants/refugees.

And really, shit nigga, it sucks for blacks because black warlords sold black slaves to white people for gibmes. If you want to blame the past, get right down to the nitty gritty: God is responsible for crafting us. Or mathematics for providing the statistical anomalies that made us.

On the other hand, suggesting the problem is merely 150 years old or that the blame belongs to whites is just a narrative. I get it, blacks are an easy victim to play because even blacks fucked over blacks, it's hilarious. They get it far better here than they'll ever get it anywhere else, they have the potential do work from nothing to something the same as anyone.

What stops them? Indolence, as I see it. Much rather to lay back, and let ol' Whitey do his thing: suffer, grow, succeed and then, in an altruistic motion, move to help those who-- in a contemporary spotlight-- refuse to help themselves.

As for incarceration, it happens to anyone. Just happens blacks like to commit more crimes.
We never said flipping burgers to rent a one-bedroom lot is glorious, we said you can do that or you can sit on Jow Forums and pretend the problem is literally anything but within the person.

Nobody wants to be saddled with helping others because 80% of the time you're just pandering out to gibmedats who don't understand respect, humility or determination. They just want to blame someone else so that person can do all the thinking, working, planning and-- of course-- paying that goes into shoring up the lowest denominator.

Believe me my guy. I'd love an ideal world where everyone gets everything. But who the FUCK is going to pay for that?
Welfare only works if someone is paying poor peoples' rent. Say what you like: without people who bank 100% ass on the line, 3/4 assers or half-assers or quarter-assers would be left to wallow in the world they created.

So often are we ready to callously disregard that all things take work-- including platforms upon which we bitch about things requiring work.

If it were simple, it would be solved.

Probably part of it, but I don't know if it's all.

I figured not getting screwed in some contracts sooner or later also is very difficult, as is avoiding the strong pull of big companies maximizing their profits [and thus possibly minimizing yours and their employee's - at least in not compensating for inflation and all that]. Or covering your most severe risks with insurances. And such.

Still, ultimately I don't know what the most relevant issues are. I just saw some issues. Plus quite many people who try and tried hard and failed or did not progress. And I saw numbers that really make it pretty clear liabilities vs assets/savings are much out of whack for a really overall hard-working country.

You are better off in ways that you cant even imagine. We have no culture here, just empty consumerism and sports.

Pic related.

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Nobody is looking at determination for shit anyhow.

And the 3/4 assers are good enough to do work with, they just stay at 30k or under forever with a large risk to drop off [usually irreversibely] at any time for hundreds of reasons, same as the 100% assers that didn't guess right what they should do.

Well, I figure we both can't entirely prove our point, but I'm going with many ot most instances of poverty aren't due to people very systematically seriously fucking up and never trying. They are trying quite alright to do something useful and get compensated alright, they're just not succeeding.

> If it were simple, it would be solved
As if the USA solved everything Germany has solved. Vice versa too of course, but there isn't exactly symmetry and most of the issues aren't either-you-were-able-to-do-x-or-y between these countries, but just huge fucking flaws because people don't really like comparing & improving or electing people that compare or whatever.

got to fill that void somehow, user

Tell us more about yourself, so far all we know if you're indecisive, don't like children, think most women are thots and that is somehow connected to employment status, like to whine, extremely lazy but don't think you are, can barely think for yourself, and you like guns.
The leftist part of the US where someone with your issues would fit in are very anti-gun and really anti-other-opinion so I don't think the us would really be a good fit.