How do I wash my negative perceptions about relationships away?

Only high IQ people realize that

>I think there's plenty of examples of married people, or people in relationships, doing awful shit.
Yeah but there is a difference between doing bad stuff and shooting up schools. So far it seems that the most productive and less violent members of society are married people, statistically speaking at least.

>But in no way do I feel like less of a person for not being in a relationship.
Yeah, that's fine. That means you are young but keep in mind that your sexuality is a psychological trap played by your brain to motivate you to find a partner. It is natural and primal. And when you get older it will only get worse. Another good example is feminists with like 50 cats. Can't think of a demographic that thinks more about suicide.

I brought it up here because I do plan on bringing it up a little more clearly, but want to think it out.

As a relationship therapist, she's a little biased though. You have valid points worth considering.

>As a relationship therapist, she's a little biased though.
I'd recommend constantly being aware of keeping an open mind. Your mind is going to continue to grasp onto every opportunity it can to validate itself and justify not changing and you need to be aware of it. You have programmed yourself to think certain things and use certain things you see as validation for these beliefs and the key to getting better is pattern recognition and constant awareness. I'm not saying it isn't possible that your therapist is biased towards relationships I'm just saying its not a coincidence that you don't want to be in relationships yet constantly just stumble across excuses not to be in one. A relationship therapist seems like the exact kind of person you need to go to. If she's biased towards relationships and you're biased against them then that's probably your best chance at meeting somewhere in the middle and fixing yourself.

>Women try to trap you into not enjoying your life or having independence

Not true unless you get with a total sociopath or a girl with very low self esteem. This week i have probably gone out TOO much with my buddies and the wife has not said a peep.

>Have to try to become what someone else wants

Never marry potential. Don't try to change others. This is a good rule for both partners

>Constantly have to compromise or outright give shit up for others

Welcome to real life. I don't wanna work late tomorrow but in return my customers are going to pay me upfront in cash.

>Life gets boring, there's no more nights out, just forcing yourself to stay in and watch Netflix or something

Life doesn't get boring. Your taste in shit will change. I like going out with my mates but not at the same rate i would see them when i was 18-25. Sometimes i do just wanna sit home with a slow vidya and a beer or watch TV with my kid.

>Kids are terrible - they shit and piss and take all of your money, independence, and sleep

Your age is showing again. I was terrified of kids when i was younger. If you told 20 year old me i would have kids i would never have believed. Also raising kids is not the hell its made out to be my mainstream media. It can be testing at times, but honestly the best part of my day is coming home to my kid. Yesterday he tried to judo throw me as i was taking of my shoes while telling me about his school day. He also has a pretty good sense of humor for a 6 year old. Little things like that make it totally worth it. Its hard to explain.

>There's always going to be a power imbalance in a relationship - I'm going to have to be with someone I don't really like, or someone who doesn't really like me

Uh, not sure what you mean here. Generally people don't get with people they don't like. Can you elaborate?

Full disclosure: I'm a 31 year old with a boy and a girl due in august. By 25 i had done most of the "experiences" a guy is meant to have had

That seems a lot more like correlation instead of causation.

Well, Bayesian statistics tell us that the more correlation there is, the higher the probability for it to be causation. And there is a LOT of correlation. It is almost impossible to imagine a happily married guy shooting up a school.

Also, not withstanding the fact that mass shooting statistics don't have much of anything to do with OP's dysfunction.

>Welcome to real life
Except I have the choice. If I don't want to work tomorrow, I don't have to. Is the juice worth the squeeze?

>Life doesn't get boring. Your taste in shit will change
I'm your age, dude. I know what my tastes are. I know they can always evolve, but shutting down and sitting at home certainly isn't what I want anytime soon. People have insisted for the past 7 years of my life that I was going to "grow up" any minute, but no, I don't want to sit in my house every single night. And when I do, I want to do what I want to do (which right now, is shitposting and watching comic book shit).

>Kids is not hell
Valid, some people say it is very rewarding. But I have coworkers who just clearly are always exhausted and miserable. I know too many people with shitty, unspectacular kids, despite what looks to be good parenting. I'm sure there's a chance.

>Power imbalance
Way too many people on here will tell you that you need to "lower your standards," so you can find someone that you like. I view that like shopping for a used car... you have a "need" for a car, meaning you need it to get to work, you have a certain budget, you'll work on getting the best you can within a budget. Not the same for a relationship. I believe you should find someone you love so desperately that you need to overlook everything else.

Ultimately, there's someone there punching up or punching down though, right? Either you're gonna be disappointed you ended up with some chubby girl who thinks the world of you, or you're gonna end up with some girl that knows she can do better.

No offense, but you don't sound like you've ever actually had a real relationship with someone you truly connected with who also connected with you. If you did, you'd already know that she wouldnt try to change you nor would she just be a leech nor would she forbid you from having your own life and hobbies.

There isn't a power imbalance in a real relationship where you're both in love. It isn't about power. It's about being in love and always wanting to be together in ways that neither of you can explain. Love by no means is ever easy no matter how much you care about each other, but the decision to keep trying is what's usually the easy part because picturing a life apart from them is just something neither of you even want to imagine. I don't know. I can't explain it much more than this. I know it sounds corny as shit. but it's an extremely powerful feeling when both of you are so deeply connected in such a way. So powerful that even the idea of suffering through raising a child sounds great because they will be a result of the love you two made, a combination of both your souls in the form of another human. It's fucking weird as hell.

Eesh. Find better women.

evolution never really intended you to contemplate relationships
now that you are aware of the underlying processes, you cant appreciate it

I guess not. And that's why it's a little tragic. I've been in three long term relationships... one high school love, one college relationship, one "adult" relationship. I've had some other shorter ones, but those are the big three.

What you say is super important though, because it's how I want to feel. And how I think I should feel, in a relationship. That someone is so important to me that I'm willing to sacrifice everything. That the "consequences" I talk about become irrelevant. But a lot of this board, a lot of people, will tell you that it's wrong to think that way. That you're supposed to go out and just find someone that you're mostly compatible with and call it a day.

How do I figure out that answer? What you say is the opposite of "it's better than being alone."

>>Women try to trap you into not enjoying your life or having independence
Yeah, realize they just want attention and.... let's call it "security".

You could, presumably, enjoy the time you spend with your girl? Just maybe? How about you both do something that makes you happy?

But if you find yourself in a relationship where the other is absolutely refuses to let you do things on your own, then GET THE FUCK OUT.

>>Have to try to become what someone else wants
Shrug. This isn't a woman thing. It applies to JOBS too. It's the natural order of supply and demand. Seriously, making yourself a better person isn't.... a bad thing.

>>Constantly have to compromise or outright give shit up for others
. . . I dunno man, this kind of applies to everyone and everything. But there's definitely a balance. Imagine you found a real cool bro. Just hanging out with him would take time. Time you could have spend doing other things. That's... giving up shit for others. That's just how relationships work. To an extent.

But if your significant other is demanding you give up things which are important to you, like a career, a dream, a hobby? Man, FUCK THEM.

>>Life gets boring, there's no more nights out, just forcing yourself to stay in and watch Netflix or something
That's just laziness. On both your parts. You want a more adventuresome life, GO FOR IT. In fact, I'd even invite the girl out. If this is important to you, and she doesn't want to go... remember what I said about them letting you go do things on your own? Or worse, if they demand you NOT go do important things? Yeah, fuck them and go do the thing. At that point they are toxic and dragging you down.

>>Kids are terrible - they shit and piss and take all of your money, independence, and sleep

Well this one is just plain true.

The sleep gets a little better after 6 months. Then nose-dives after 1 year when they bring home plagues from daycare.

>
>>There's always going to be a power imbalance in a relationship - I'm going to have to be with someone I don't really like, or someone who doesn't really like me

..... hold up, what does a "power imbalance" have to do with how much you like someone?

You could be rich. She could be ugly. You could give the best damn cunnilingus in town. She could be a goddess of finances. You could have a higher education. She could have a massive rack.

I think you boiled down relationships into a single value. Ewww. Don't do that. Appreciate the other person's strengths, forgive and try to shore up their weaknesses. If you both do this, you might just end up supporting each other. No one is perfect, everyone has flaws.

>my life is pretty solidly together
Really?

>Both do something that makes you happy
More often than not I see this as "you're spending too much time with X, mature adults do X."

There's very rarely something that makes you both happy. I might not hate hiking from time to time, but if we both could halfway accept hiking on the weekend, is that truly "happy?"

>JOBS, better person
I fucking HATE my job. I have worked for the past decade to find something I can tolerate, that makes me satisfied, and gives me a good deal of money, so I want for nothing. I NEED a job, I don't need a girlfriend. Making myself a better person is great, but who is defining "better person?" Is making my bed every morning, or putting my clothes in the hamper instead of on the floor something that makes me a "better person," or just an arbitrary set of rules someone put in?

>Fuck them
Agreed. I don't want anyone that makes me change who I fundamentally am, as long as it's not self-destructive.

>Adventuresome
And therein lies the rub. What you envision as adventure, your girlfriend envisions as a chance for you to cheat, something where you're supposed to be inside with her, something where you're stealing from her time. She wants to sit inside and cook together, you want to go see your buddies and watch hockey.

I'm not trying to be intentionally obtuse here, but the only thing that resonates with me is that you should still follow your dreams and hobbies, but most relationships become "our" dreams and hobbies.

I'm just repeating things I've heard from others, things I've seen from others, things I've been told about dating. There's not really a financial or sexual power "imbalance," but at the end of the day, someone is more desired than the other, and that's what makes it awful. If you think I'm fundamentally wrong, good, I would hope that I am... but most will tell me, or another girl, that we need to lower our standards to meet someone. That there isn't someone out there waiting for us that fits what we like.

As kinda mentioned, shoring up someone's "weaknesses" is a matter of perception. Is going to bed with the TV on a "weakness?" What about drinking three beers throughout the night each night? These aren't objective things.

Short of not being in a relationship, I have a lot of money, a nice house, a great car, friends, a perfectly acceptable sex life, and I get along with almost everyone. I don't know what else you consider as together, unless being together means you have to be seeing someone.

>More often than not I see this as "you're spending too much time with X, mature adults do [Y]."
Fuck that noise.

Are these actual comments from actual girls you've actually dated? Or is this a perception?

If it's real, then you need to start finding less picky bitches, or go find a geeky girl who appreciates you. Or settle for a naggy twat and accept no-one is perfect.

If it's perception..... then just realize not everyone thinks.... playing videogames is childish.

>There's very rarely something that makes you both happy.
Where the fuck do you find these bitches that have nothing in common with you?

>I might not hate hiking from time to time, but if we both could halfway accept hiking on the weekend, is that truly "happy?"
You'll forever be hunting "truly" and never capturing anything. But yeah, being with someone will definitely sometimes require time commitments and social obligations now and then. You might not even enjoy it. If you can't do ANYTHING you enjoy together, then STOP BEING TOGETHER.

> I NEED a job, I don't need a girlfriend.
Then you'll be ok being alone. Problem solved.

> but who is defining "better person?"
The free market. You can either look at that as "what the median girl wants" and presume some sort of social standard of desirability or you can look at it as "what my perfect woman wants". Think of your perfect girl. Who would she want you to be? Ideally.

>What you envision as adventure, your girlfriend envisions as a chance for you to cheat, something where you're supposed to be inside with her, something where you're stealing from her time. She wants to sit inside and cook together, you want to go see your buddies and watch hockey.

Again, is this actual experience from actual girlfriends or is this a perception?

A) You need to find less schitzo girls. Typically that means smaller tits.

B) That's all in your head dude.

>I'm just repeating things I've heard from others, things I've seen from others, things I've been told about dating.
Ah, your problem is that people are lying sacks of shit that don't know what's going on.

Welcome to Jow Forums!

> someone is more desired than the other,

hmmmm.... Realize there's two sides to this: How much you desire the other, and how much you think they desire you. Realize that BOTH people can think they've "married up". (And both asshats can think they married beneath them.)

>Maturity
It's common shit I hear all the time from people. "I'm X age now, I'm too old for that." I can't tell you how many times I've heard someone quote the Bible verse about putting away childish things, or have watched someone discard something they love because they have been told that being a certain age means they need to act a certain way. Not every girl, but quite a few.

>Nothing in common
It's not exactly that, but you're both making a compromise on what you're watching or doing. Both of you may not LOVE The Walking Dead, but it's the closest intersection of something that you can both tolerate, when realistically one would rather be playing Call of Duty, and the other taking a bubble bath. Instead you both waste an hour pretending you're both doing what you want.

>Need a girlfriend
I think I'll be okay alone, but I have reasonable doubt in things and figured I'd ask about the concept.

>The free market
That's counterproductive to wanting to be a "better person." I can strive to help people, to make myself someone I can be proud of, that's a better person to me. There's no real benefit in being a better person just so I can up my market value to get laid.

>Experience or actual girlfriend?

Both. I don't even like big tits. But like I said, my last relationship was awful, because I stripped everything that made me myself because I wanted a girlfriend so bad. And she wasn't a bad person, this was just... what being in a relationship was. Dinner, TV, sex, two nights out a week, repeat until death.

Stop being a pussy bitch.

>Women try to trap you into not enjoying your life or having independence
>Have to try to become what someone else wants
>Constantly have to compromise or outright give shit up for others
>Life gets boring, there's no more nights out, just forcing yourself to stay in and watch Netflix or something
>Kids are terrible - they shit and piss and take all of your money, independence, and sleep

Imagine this, friendo.

>>Tell your wife that friends are throwing a party at for you
>>She says she'd rather go do something else
>>"Hey come on, it's my birthday and they're doing something nice for me..."
>>"OMG WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO TRAP ME AND CONTROL ME"

Or how about this one?

>>"Hey babe! Let's go see Avengers: Infinity War, it sounds awesome!"
>>"Lolno, superheros are stupid. I've never seen one of those movies and I never will. Let's watch Fifty Shades of Grey again."
>>"We watched that three times already though, couldn't we go with my suggestion just once...?
>>"UUUGGGHH Why are you FORCING ME to like nerd shit? I DON'T WANT TO TRY WATCHING IT."

Hm, about your third greentext

>>"Fuck, I have to work late tonight - I know it's supposed to be my turn for laundry tonight but could you help me out?"
>>"Tonight is my "Bachelorette" and popcorn chill-out night, I'm not going to give that up."
>>"I could really use a hand, I really can't miss this deadline!"
>>"That sounds like a you problem, not a me problem - I still expect my pencil skirt to be ready for work tomorrow btw."

You sound like one of those libertardians who think that self-absorption and narcissism are virtues. How much did your parents fuck up when you were young?

Good for u

I'm not sure what you're getting at here besides mainly making my point for me?

>party for me
I'd go do that, but imagine if #2 is "ugh, your friends are exhausting, I can't handle them. Let's just have a night in and cook something healthy. Don't drink too much though, you know I don't like when you drink."

>Fifty Shades
"Nooooo! That's a movie for us to watch in private. Plus I don't want you looking at another girl that way, you know porn makes you think of other girls."

>Deadline
When you're single, there's no one around to wash your clothes. Not their responsibility when you're together, either. The deadline doesn't go away.

So yeah.

Anyways, I need to head to bed... I'll check in in the morning if anyone wants to give input still, but there wasn't a ton to shift my mindset in this thread.

Ultimately I got:

>if you're not in a relationship you'll become a mass shooter
>dude your tastes will change
>you've only met schizo girls

I did get some positivity from a couple of posts and certain parts of others... namely that you might feel that way about someone to make it all worth it, that maybe some people both feel they married up, and that you should ditch anyone who doesn't support your hobbies and such.

Thanks for the thoughts either way.

omfg, that last sentence is my only two relationships ive ever had (22M)
>Ultimately, there's someone there punching up or punching down though, right? Either you're gonna be disappointed you ended up with some chubby girl who thinks the world of you, or you're gonna end up with some girl that knows she can do better.

I'm kinda in the same boat user but I've never really had a good relationship either, so I'm hoping that if I do find one, that my opinion will change. I'd worry less about having the right opinion and worry more about making your own life better - not to say opinions have no value, but they change

It's your own damn fault for believing these negative girlfriend stereotypes in the first place. The only way to get rid of your weird thoughts about women is to find one that proves you wrong.

And how do I do that? Just keep plugging away at something that seems hopeless on the off chance I find that person? Seems like a waste of my time, and a lot of heartache on both sides.

Honestly you just seem like a lazy coward who is so scared of rejection and someone holding you accountable for your actions that you've convinced yourself the points in the OP are the way life is when it is not the case in a healthy relationship.

I don't mean to sound like I'm attacking you, but I've "lived" on the internet for over 15 years (hermit) and have seen plenty of guys like you. A dime a dozen, all taking their brief experiences with actual people or hearsay as fact because you don't want to have to do or live up to anything to get what you want.

Rejection? Not really. Someone holding me accountable for my actions? Yeah, I guess...?

The entire point here is I fear losing my autonomy, having someone else tell me what I'm supposed to be doing or where I'm supposed to be. Even worse, WHO I'm supposed to be. So many older guys tell me to never get married, and I hear all of these horror stories about wives who suddenly got fat or expected their list of priorities to suddenly be the man's list of priorities.

I see coworkers stuck going out to Home Depot to remodel their kitchen on a Sunday instead of watching football. I see grown men calling their girlfriends for "permission" to have a beer after work.

I mean, that all focused on the negative in the women, but I don't think it's purely their fault. Women get stuck with jealous men, men who get fat potbellies or turn into alcoholics, there's lots of bad shit.

And yeah, I don't want to be the kind of guy who takes rumors and hearsay as fact, but I'm the opposite of a shut-in. I've been in relationships, I have tons of friends, I've been around. I used to be a hopeless romantic that thinks everything worked well in life, but I know of 5 or so successful marriages right now, the rest seem to have major problems.

>Be me
>successful handsome 24 year old male
>Was in long term relationship age 18-23

it was cool having a guaranteed hot girl in my bed every night, but it gets stale. You realize pretty early on in a relationship that your sexual appetite can be quenched quite easily and the sex is no longer a huge appeal.

Also my ex expected me to conform myself and my image to her current path in life. She wanted me to cover my tattoos and stop doing performance art because her parents thought it was weird.

After a while I got so depressed because I felt like I was sacrificing who I truly was to maintain a relationship with this girl. I felt like I was missing out on what I truly wanted to do, and that I was wasting my 20s.

After we broke up I fucked a bunch of Tinder girls until I got sick of it and deleted the app. Now if I get horny I have a few FWBs I can hit up, but I try to limit casual sex to 1-2 times a month max. I get lethargic if I have sex too often.

My advice is enjoy your youth. If you are an attractive man and know you can maintain your looks/charisma well into your 30s/40s then be single for the time being. Form a bunch of alternative relationships by meeting new girls all the time and treating them like girlfriends, fucking them, etc. If you're hardcore you can travel abroad and impregnate a bunch of foreign girls.

Being a man is supposed to be adventurous. If you get bored in your 30s just find a hot 18-21 year old girl that looks up to you to be your gf.