There is no form of government that will provide a free, fair and sustainable life for humanity. The problem is, at its center, any kind of collective that uses force and coercion against individuals. You can't even get rid of this problem by turning to "anarchy" since nearly every anarchist that has ever existed is actually just a blatant authoritarian who believes in big government, or even an outright military state, under the monicker of "anarchy" and "freedom" (this is especially true of co-called left-wing anarchy).
There is no answer. There is no solution. The illness lies deep in the human soul.
No government has the right to tell you what you can or cannot do. But if you abolish the government then the first thing people will do is reorganize and once more use force and coercion to tell you what to do.
Congratulations. You have realized that humans are imperfect beings and thus incapable of creating and maintaining a perfect system.
Ryan Stewart
But there is no "anarcho-XXXXXX". There is only "anarchy". If you don't have government then you don't get to control how society is structured. So there is no such thing as "anarcho-primitivism", nor "anarcho communism" or "anarcho capitalism". It's all fake. There is only "Anarchy" and anarchy describes a lack of central control by definition.
"anarcho primitivism" might reflect a certain utopian ideal you hold (and that I happen hold too) but it's a form of government or anarchy or anything else. 7 billion people in the world, most of them don't want to fish their food, and even if they did then they would run out of fish pretty damn fast at this level of overpopulation.
And even if you killed off 99% of them, the survivors would immediately band together into authoritarian packs with weird rules and taboos.
Joshua Green
OK sure, maybe you've got a point in pointing out that this is basically common sense. But I have spent much of the last few years trying to understand the world around me, politically, and think up a system that could genuinely be positive for the world and create a positive place. Not out of selfishness, not out of my own desire to see my will reflected in the masses, but just out of genuine good intentions. None exists. There is no set of "rules" that can be universal and fair and that cannot be twisted by the evil people who do mental gymnastics to justify our enslavement on both the right and especially the left side of the political spectrum.
Alexander Davis
Jesus is the only answer to mans chaos.
Leo Myers
I’ve heard good things about Clerical Fascism but the Church is not in a good place
Dictatorship is the best form of government but no man is worthy to rule the world
Philosophy comes next
Zachary Hughes
To some degree I feel like the wisdom described by the new testament of the bible, and in particular jesus christ, is pretty astounding, all things considered. I get more respect for it every day. It's not a perfect doctrine, obviously, but there's some clear wisdom there that is lost upon the masses.
Like "pride" being a deadly sin, for example. I never understood that one. I always thought to myself "pride is ok! pride is good!". Only recently did I start to realize how badly pride damages your life. It traps you and you become a prisoner to it. So it's not even about servitude and prostrating yourself upon some authoritarian deity. I understand the concept of the "7 deadly sins" now being a descriptor of things that will personally harm you and your family and those around you. Not just arbitrary rules that vilify human nature. Lots of wisdom in the bible, for certain. I don't doubt that.
Dylan Morales
Well I'm not saying you are stupid. The path you have taken is a common path for any young idealistic thinker. As you now realize, it was a redundant path that you could've avoided taking. But it was not a wasted effort: your effort has educated you on the possible ways collectives can be structured and organized. While the superiority of any particular system will depend on the cultural context in which it is implemented, the actual mechanics upon which the functioning of most societies is based on will largely remain the same regardless of what particular system is implemented.
I think delving deeper into the basic premises of human nature would be a good way forward for you.
Noah Sanders
>Philosophy comes next Yeah. You've got to just come to some understanding of being decent on a personal level and realize that you can't fix the world or make everyone else decent. There's darkness and humanity and you can't even vilify that darkness because if you do then YOU also become a part of it.
Bentley Gutierrez
Yeah all of this is true IMO. I think you're right about all of this stuff now.
James Diaz
why not have 5 or 6 dictators that control everything then?
Thomas Edwards
Christ saves
Scripture + Aristotle + Aquinas answered most of my questions
Joseph Watson
I too have thought about a sort of partition-based system as essentially an antithesis to everything else but I can’t conceive it working. It’s like many heads on one beast all trying to go different directions.
Aiden Butler
Politicians and their policies have never made the world a better place.
OP I don’t mean to samefag your thread but it’s nice to see a legit thread again. Man was born into a utopia, this is even true in the naturalist Darwinian view of mans history. No matter what angle you come from, Earth was a better habitat back then than it is now. Man used to look to the stars and see a god or gods, and now he only sees himself. The entire aim of politics is for man to accomplish the greatest of goods, that is what is best for all men, which aims for a utopia, the same that man came from. You’re right, it is the human condition that prevents a perfect system being created by our hands. However, a perfect system does exist, it is God’s law. If everyone was to obey God’s law, we would have no need to create a perfect system, for we have one already.
David Bailey
The problem is that your mind, as well as that of most political thinkers today, is infected with liberalism. This is compounded by your materialist (irreligious) worldview. You assume that a government should exist to serve the people, and this is because you don't see a transcendent reality towards which all human being should be orienting their lives. No absolute ideal. Really, I wonder how you people even get out of bed in the morning after thinking this way for decades.
Connor Diaz
If a group of people come together and decide to have rules guess what? That's a state. Anarchists btfo yet again
Josiah Martin
I'm always confused by this view of the world. It is precisely because of liberalism that we can sit here/there, fully fed and disease free typing ideas into a global communication system. The freedom of thought and expression brought about by liberalism underpin all great and wonderful things in the modern world. To argue against this strikes me as historical illiteracy.
The absolute ideal I hold to is quite simple. It goes something like this; be nice to others and master yourself. Don't really need anything else to get out of bed desu.
How is this revelatory? Humans are flawed creatures. The best you can do is be realistic about this, accept it and take part in the organisational system in order to lobby for you and yours.
Chase Reyes
But there is no Liberal-XXXXXX. There is only ''Liberty''. If you don't have rules then you don't get to control how people act. Oh wait, yes there is. it's called liberal democracy and it's a part of every democracy.
Everything is a sliding scale numbnuts and most political viewpoints are two extreme ones jammed together to show nuanced views.
Angel Rogers
Well that's pretty damn reductionist. The question then becomes "how do you define liberty"? Is private property liberty? Is it "liberty" if someone privately owns all of the property in the world, forbids you from stepping foot on "their property" and the state enforces trespassing laws against you? Your very existence, in this scenario, is a crime, so how is it liberty? I'm not advocating for the abolition of private property, I'm only pointing out one mere example upon millions, maybe billions, that demonstrate the complexity and nuance of the situation, something you obviously fail to do.
Caleb Murphy
WTF is this nonsense you twinks
Jaxson Scott
in a purely liberal country the state would not enforce any rules. The government would basically be the administrators for dealing with other countries. Funded purely by people in that country who wanted that. The military would exist, purely volunteer and funded by those who want a military. There would be no private property, it would be a case of if you can't hold onto it you lose it. A person can say they own everything, but only the people they convince will help them. Free markets. No police, no crimes. What we would call criminals would face mob justice, or more likely revenge killings.
In short, it would be hell. I just used liberty to show you your post was stupid.
Jacob Morris
The authoritarian packs are the point of primitivism as I understand it. What exactly is the issue with them? Why do you think life for humanity has to be free, fair and sustainable? It only has to be natural. The only problem with collectives using force and coercion against individuals en masse is that we evolved with a different structure in mind - that's the only reason to rebel against it in the first place. If you're afraid humanity will snap back into its big government ways, you can dream up a couple of ways to prevent it that wouldn't include a government of their own.
Ayden Collins
>In short, it would be hell. I just used liberty to show you your post was stupid. Dude, you're only making my point for me here though. I'm not seeing how you think this "shows my post is stupid" or whatever.
Grayson Thomas
By your ultra-subjective, so-called "logic" a person should not even resist being enslaved because "their brains just evolved to dislike slavery". I mean come on. Take off the fucking fedora and get with reality here, you know?
Kevin James
That's not at all what I said.
Hunter Martinez
>There is no answer Blackshirt Fascim is the answer faggot.
Daniel Clark
I agree that building a perfect Utopian society is impossible but getting rid of Jews would be a great step towards escaping this dystopian hell-world that they have forced upon us.
Owen Green
Big oof, I spelled fascism wrong.
Nicholas Jenkins
Anarcho capitalism and anarcho monarchism are the only acceptable forms of Anarchism. Up with Hoppe down with Marx
