What do you look for in a wife?

>careers are memes
Lmao

Yeah it seems like a lot of guys I've dated in the past were actually turned off by how career driven I was.

Everyone's diff ofc

No shit, if you care so much about being a corporate stooge you obviously don't care about family.

There's a difference between working on wallstreet and being able to pay your own rent...

Honestly not playing games is a big one for me, don't use cryptic BS and expect a guy to take a hint. Next don't be overly easy we like a challenge but only if the odds are not so stacked against us that we lose hope. You should be there for your man as you want him to be there for you it's a partnership after all. Knowing how to do various house hold things is a plus but not Paramount. Lastly I like girls that help balance out my life where with her strenghs and mine together we can do anything

Yes, but "career-driven" is not equivalent to working to pay the bills.

a dowry payment on par with my country's gdp and loyalty so i don't lose half of it

I’m 29. Every GOOD QUALITY woman wants kids.. it sucks

Sometimes you have to be a little "career-driven" to pay your bills. I grew up very poor and my family still is. If I wasn't that way I wouldn't be able to pay my own rent. Ofc some people are handed everything to them in life, So I can understand how paying your own rent is not equivalent to "career driven" and they can not show up to work whenever they want because daddy will just pay their bill.

I want a woman who actually enjoys her career and wants to be successful in it

I do enjoy my career. I chose it.

Very few (at least western) men are like that.

Not really.

I want a wife who is attractive and not a whore. Everything else doesn't matter because woman are like clay and easy to mold.

>Not really

Yes, really. I never meet women who will outright say “I never want kids”. I hear them say “eh maybe” or “i’m not sure yet”. Which means they will one day.

Being uncommon doesn't mean it's nonexistent.

It’s so uncommon it might as well be nonexistent.

The better a woman takes care of herself the higher the chances she will want kids. It’s biology. A woman who has her shit together, makes money, is happy, healthy, and fit; her body will be telling her “you NEED children. You will produce good offspring”. So, she will start wanting kids if she hasn’t already.

>It’s so uncommon it might as well be nonexistent.
Eh I know a few myself. It's of course extremely rare but if you restrict to say, women in academia, it's nontrivial. I'm obviously aware of the reasons lmao.

>but if you restrict to say, women in academia, it's nontrivial.

Why would I was some woman who works as a bartender slut?

>Has only had sex with people she's in a serious relationship with
>Has had less than 5 serious relationships
>Shares my sense of humour
>Is an Irish Catholic with all the conservative values that come with it
That's about it.

1. Hard working
2. Loyal
3. Wants children
4. Kind
5. Political /world view aligned with mine, or at least not opposed.
6. Get along great day-to-day

I realized my gf of 5 years checked 3 of those boxes, 4 on a good day. And I when I thought about marrying her I would get anxious and depressed.

I realized then, that what was best for both of us, was to let her go. And so I did.

I am absolutely like that. I don't want to be stuck taking care of someone or paying alimony. I want a partner, not a dependent.

"In academia" doesn't mean "educated in a university", I'm referring to women who are researchers, professors, etc. and I'm in STEM, not even talking about humanities or anything.

I'm married. It's simple.

We get along well as friends. Her bullshit is bearable and an easy trade off for her positives, she knows my worst and dumbest and weakest and least appealing qualities and she still thinks im number one. Its been 5 years and I don't hate how she chews and don't want her dead for it.

I want you to pay special attention to the last part... Relationship psychologists say you should wait 4 years to get engaged. Because that last one, the hating your partner for oddly specific and incredibly stupid things?(which I've experienced in the past. I'm 30. Had other ltrs). That's common.. and starts around 4 years. It means you're mismatched and your relationship has been based on superficiality or fear and no real connection.

That's what I want. No specific qualities. If you're listing qualities you're looking for in ways you'd never do for choosing, say, a best male friend, you're doing it wrong.

It's chemistry. Not trivia.

It is hard to quantify.
I see so many things I don't want and I try to avoid as many of those as possible.
Generally, I want someone who is loyal and respects me.
I want a wife that wouldn't mind living in a trailer while the bedroom is being rebuilt.
I want a wife that is willing to pretend she sees the good in me.
I want a wife that wants to have company over even if it is my friends.
I want a wife that knows what should be private and what she can share with her friends.

But there are also a ton of superficial stuff:
I want a wife that is intelligent, I want to be challenged or have someone to bounce stuff off.
I want a wife that wants to present her best side to people. This one is much more obtainable than people think: work out to stay at normal weight, get a nice dress and smile. Honestly, a nice fashion sense and a smile goes a long way.
Another thing that is really stupid but I can't help it: her voice needs to be nice.
I can tell within 10 seconds if I want to spend time with a girl just based on this and there is nothing the person can do to change it.

While I see these qualities in the relationships closets to me, I fear it is hard to obtain.

Exactly. Plus I want her to have a life besides me.

She would need to be in a successful career which she cares about, as an example, my ex gf was a lawyer.

>She would need to be in a successful career which she cares about
We were talking about women who don't want children. Yes, this only really tends to happen (outside literally crazy women) with those focused on careers. It's not that different from men in that sense.

Shit taste. Successful women just want more successful men, and don't make good wives anyways. Women are biologically programmed to be submissive and raise children. It's better to seek a woman who knows and thrives in this role than a man stuck in a body with tits.

I know it’s not different with men. Just like how all good women want kids, it’s the same with men. All of my friends are successful and want kids.

I’m just saying I’m very aware how good successful women who don’t want kids are extremely rare

>wanting children

> being a genetic failure

Someone I find physically and mentally attractive.
Someone who shares a lot of my common hobbies and interests.
A best friend.
Someone who’s reasonably together with finances, life and all that. I don’t mind some issues, even big ones, we all got our own baggage and fucked up issues.

That’s pretty much it.

>oh noes muh genetics what will i do

the world is going to be fucked in 100 years. You want to bring kids into this?

Fine. Even if you don't want kids, your woman probably will. And even if you don't end up having kids, it's better to have a submissive woman than some career-driven bitch with "interests".

>it's better to have a submissive woman than some career-driven bitch with "interests

Why would you not want an intelligent and interesting wife to travel around the world with?

My wifr doesn't want kids. And she's career driven. We do great.

How terrible is your life that you need to be right about this so badly?

Like you actually need an entire demographic to be objectively below you?! You have that little to be proud of?

Man... You suck.

>My wifr doesn't want kids. And she's career driven. We do great.

How did you meet your wife? and on a 1-10 scale what do you rate your wife (as unbiased as you can please).

I can’t meet women like this IRL. Every quality woman I meet wants kids. I made an online dating account on Match and filtered for women who don’t want kids. The list was small and the ones who had profiles were pretty strange looking

because I don't want to travel the world, everywhere outside the west is an utter shithole

You do you. A feminine woman is far better in bed and to be around. A housewife makes sure you have a tidy house, good food, and helps you relax when you come home. You're giving up all that, just so your wife can boost her self-esteem by having a career?

> entire demographic to be objectively below you?!
Who said it's below? There's nothing bad about being submissive. And besides, it's just my SO, not an entire gender.

> You suck.
You may just have (bad imho) taste.

Men are better friends and always more interesting. When you travel you can meet new, exciting women.

if my woman wants kids and i dont, she's not my woman for long. even if she says she doesn't, i will always be wary and leave at the first sign of trouble.
not worth the effort to try to please them on that front, only a question of time before they realize they need to trap you with kids/marriage

There is a LOT of places to travel to in the west.

>Men are better friends and always more interesting.

I’d still travel with a male friend if we planned a trip.

>When you travel you can meet new, exciting women.

I’m not promiscuous. also, if I was married with kids, that would be cheating anyways. Which is wrong

How low is your self esteem that your goal in life is to marry a submissive woman?

Being career driven and independent most definitely isn't a bad thing. You'd know she was with you because she genuinely wanted to be, rather than relying on you financially until something better comes along, like the average stay at home, unskilled mother might do.

ntayrt, but my fiance is similar. We're both academics (mathematician and chemist respectively) and she's more 'career driven' than me - she actually has a high-paying job while I'm still working on a postdoc. I want kids more than her by far (traditional slavic parents what can i say), and I definitely think she's serious about that. I don't mind. She's probably a 7/10 but if she got more fit and wasn't so laid-back (tho I love that about her tbqh) she'd be higher - she's got good genes. Personality-wise she's a little off-putting to a lot of people but our banter is great.

She's a 10. No seriously had a real orbitor problem in the beginning. She still has an issue with creeps stalkers and cat callers and if she turns on her LinkedIn notifications her phone buzzes all day with messages from men who think it's a dating app (shes well connected.)

And it's all just time and meeting people. Might be lucky might not. I didn't do anything special or unique to get her. She just is who she is, and we had good social chemistry. Met through a mutual friend.

This

I know a guy who’s in his 50s, been divorced twice. He said he advises if you’re going to get married, marry someone who has a career they actually are passionate about. He said in his past, both of his wives quit their jobs because “they didn’t feel like working anymore”. He made $170k/yr, so after they got married they figured he could support them. He said during the entire dating process and engagement things were great. But then a few years after marriage they quit their jobs. Which is what led to divorce

>not worth the effort to try to please them on that front, only a question of time before they realize they need to trap you with kids/marriage
Yup. But a lot of guys do fall for it.

>I’d still travel with a male friend if we planned a trip.
Then why have a woman ruin it?

> I’m not promiscuous
Then you're not a normal man.
> cheating
Meh, it's the way things have always been, don't kid yourself. Again, that's the benefit of a submissive woman.

Who said it's my goal in life? My SO is submissive and it's just fine.

> isn't a bad thing
It's extremely bad.
> genuinely wanted to be
Women "genuinely" are attracted to their provider, they are programmed to mainly find male success and provision attractive. And yeah if something better comes along I expect women to jump ship, that's literally the reason you don't go for "independent" women. I'm not saying pick a dumb woman, but rather pick one who knows how a proper relationship works.

>Then why have a woman ruin it?

Because there are different type of trips. Some i’d like to explore with friends, some are romantic and would be perfect with a good woman.

>you don’t hook up with tons of women
>not a real man

Lol. Because I have morals I’m not a “real man”

>cheating is the way it’s been

You’re not a real man. Real men don’t cheat on their wives who’ve they’ve made a commitment to

>probably Christian (but actually follows the rules and not just some normie who happens to go to Church on Sunday)
>preferably blonde and blue eyed (any hair and eye color will do this is just a preference)
>wants children
>faithful (actually a requirement, nothing angers me more than adulterery)
>not fat/not from a family of fat people
>actually loves me (most important part)
I'll probably just die alone honestly

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Man.. the only thing worse than your 1 dimensional view of people is the fact you actually think this isnt some subjective point of view.. you really think you know the truth and literally no one else does.

And you're screaming and laughing at all of us what with out healthy happy relationships and thinking women are people.

>Has only had sex with people she's in a serious relationship with
>Is an Irish Catholic with all the conservative values that come with it
Christianity is truly dead

>Because there are different type of trips.
Oh I totally agree, I went to Cambodia for a few weeks a couple years back, and got a local girl for the time, the trip was meh but the company fantastic. You're missing out if you limit yourself to your wife, who will probably not even be attractive to you come a few years.

> morals
> You’re not a real man
Not an argument. You're too scared to do what you want to do, and what men are programmed to do. But if you really insist on it, then why not just not even get married? If you don't want kids, what's the point of it? Just enjoy different women and explore the world, man.

You know Hitler the Bible doesn't require a minister unify people by marriage. It says sex is the union. And it does list quite a few situations in which it's permitted to leave your mate and have sex again with someone else.

Being cheated on, or having your partner withhold sex being two of them.

So yeah serial monogamy is cool in the bible, it's just not a fan of general promiscuity for the sake of it.

I'll admit that taste is subjective. Some guys are less adventure-seeking, that's fine. But there's nothing subjective about submissive women being the optimal for every man. Want me to prove it to you?
1. A submissive woman does what you want
2. What you want (presumably) makes you happy
3. Hence submissive women will make you happy
See? It's simple logic.

>healthy happy relationships
Sure I actually don't doubt that they are happy. But I can still call them out on being worse for the man involved.

>women are people.
I never implied otherwise.

>You're missing out if you limit yourself to your wife, who will probably not even be attractive to you come a few years.

So it’s ok that you will cheat on your wife? You won’t mind if she cheats on you with niggers?

>You're too scared to do what you want to do, and what men are programmed to do.

Enjoy HIV, icky dick, and the herps

The Old Testament is a mess of contradictory pilpul. But even given that, fornication is most certainly condemned in the bible--and if sex were truly the union in itself, then fornication couldn't exist as a separate concept.

>there is someone ITT who thinks he should be allowed to be promiscuous while his wife is submissive and thinks cheating on your wife makes you a man
Thank fuck people like this only fuck whores on tinder and don't actually marry

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>>there is someone ITT who thinks he should be allowed to be promiscuous while his wife is submissive and thinks cheating on your wife makes you a man
isn't that exactly what women do, trapping men with marriage and treating them like wallets while "opening" the relationship? if so, id fuck my whores on tinder and stay the fuck out of marriage desu

Sadly they do marry. There is a guy at work who’s 55, married, and cheats A LOT. Someone asked him once “what would you do if your wife cheated?” He said “i’d dump her immediately”.

>isn't that exactly what women do, trapping men with marriage and treating them like wallets

That’s EXACTLY why we want to marry successful women who are passionate about their career paths

What a fucking hypocrite
I hate people like that more than whores
Good point in the reply
Now I get why some people want career oriented women
I'd still prefer family oriented but whatever, at least now I understand the other side

im not the submissive guy, but how does that equate? just because she is successful and working in a field she is passionate about doesn't make her any less likely to cheat on you. i'd argue the opposite, since she has the means to live without you

It would mean she is in a relationship with you because she wants to be, rather than needs to be. She does have a choice to leave because she's financially independent, but I see this as a positive.

I'd prefer that to a partner who was financially reliant on me - I'd never know if it was me they loved or the lifestyle I provided for them.

Cheating is not moral but it's natural. And "independent" women are more likely to cheat. This whole thing is predicated on her being submissive. Yes she's going to jump ship if you falter but all women do that.

And no STDs if the wife stays yours alone m8.

I am in an LTR.

So they respect you less and are more likely to leave, all the while being shitty partners? I'll take a woman who's goals are to please me over one who thinks her career matters, any sane man would.

>stop searching
I don’t know the meaning of the words. You seem to subscribe to the ideology of “The One.” I don’t believe in The Matrix or other fantasy fairy tales.

I believe that we never stop growing. What matters is finding people to grow with. I don’t believe putting a mountain of responsibility on one and only one person is healthy or appropriate.

I’m a “raised by the village” kind of guy. I also don’t want some Disney Princess for a wife; I want a Lagertha.

>I'd never know if it was me they loved or the lifestyle I provided for them.
There's no difference. Psychologically women literally find richer men more physically attractive.

A submissive girl stays with you because she doesn't have the confidence or ability to leave you. Why is this a healthier kind of relationship?

>"Upon returning to Norway, she quarrelled with her husband, and slew him with a spearhead she concealed in her gown. Saxo concludes that she then 'usurped the whole of his name and sovereignty; for this most presumptuous dame thought it pleasanter to rule without her husband than to share the throne with him' "
kek

I don't. I don't find them more or less attractive because I myself am a high earner. I'm a high earner because I focused on my career. I couldn't give less of a fuck how much my partner earns as long as we're comfortable.

I mean, I agree, most women will be attracted to money but they tend to be the submissive girls who have no way to find that money themselves.

>submissive women being the optimal for every man

always doing what you want can get real boring. Nice to have a somewhat confident woman who can rub off on you and make you try new shit.

attraction, compatibility (our wants, needs, and preferences align) and mutual respect. these will mean different things to different people, but this is what it boils down to
also i need a woman with culinary aptitude because i am terrible at it

>he thinks qualities other men normally found to be a turn off are endearing.

He's putting his real feelings aside go avoid hurting your puny female feelings. No one actually finds unattractive qualities "endearing", that's a really common facade.

unironically virginity

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The problem comes when it consumes your life
That's when people steer clear.

Me, I'm a simple man
She just gotta know how to pick up her own messes (literal and metaphorical), she's gotta be a responsible type and she's gotta be above mind and blame games

As you'd imagine I don't get terribly lucky. I have a friend who meets all my standards but I like being friends and I think anything more might ruin our dynamic-- she's also hella outta my league.
I have genuinely considering trying guys but all evidence suggests gay guys are a hundred times worse and more dangerous. Not a community I want anything to do with, least not till California is glassed off the fucking earth

Someone I can be my honest true self with. Someone that I can joke with, learn with, fuck, and love. Someone I can cut through the social bull shit with and talk soul to soul. Someone I can explore the world with. I’m sure she’s out there somewhere.

That will be very soon! Don't worry, user! Volcano-chan will help you.

nice feet

Thank fuck it'd be cool to go back to the era where you had to tell your partner you had sexually transmitted diseases
If I end up single again I'm probably just gonna mentally condition myself to masturbate to myself dressed up as a girl. It will cost a lot less

> have a submissive woman who puts you above all else
> have guy friends for actual entertainment
This is the optimal. Are you seriously implying that a women can compete with other men for being interesting and fun to be around (besides the sex)? Yeah I like a girl who's not boring too, and who's smart enough to not be a burden. She can teach you a couple things here and there, make you a better man. But that doesn't mean she shouldn't be submissive.

I'm sure she can leave to find a better guy. That's what motivates men to keep improving and keep their women happy and fulfilled. Give them an exciting life, emotional support, good sex, and a feeling of fulfillment in being with a man of value.

Are you seriously saying that the vast majority of relationships in human history were unhealthy now? You think there's something wrong with housewives? Sorry to break it to you user, but women naturally prefer being supported by a man of higher value than them.

So you're "attracted" to betas because you're too afraid to compete with women who have fundamentally better, more feminine traits like beauty and submissiveness. I'm sure you'd give him pity sex that you both have to consent to the details of and make him help with domestic duties too. Yeah what a great deal, I'm sure high-quality men would love to be with you.

> but they tend to be the submissive girls who have no way to find that money themselves.
They are really the wise girls. Girls who try to compete in their "careers" are just compensating or are brainwashed by feminist propaganda. Doesn't matter what they say though, nature always shows itself. You're either going to find a real man who makes you submit, or get a useless "man" who you'll eventually resent. The nativity is strong here.

Where are you getting your vast generalisations from?

This may have been true fifty years ago when women didn't have access to education and careers in the same way men do, but I don't think there's the same kind of reliance on men nowadays.

>your vast generalisations
What, specifically, do you think it's founded?

> when women didn't have access to education and careers
There's no evidence that this was ever a good thing. The lack of reliance on men is an issue, because it goes against the way every society has functioned in the past, and biology. Women may have freedom now, but they are fundamentally less happy for it. Not to even mention what a shit deal it is for men.

>I don't choose my partner solely on the amount of money he earns
>That means I must settle for betas
>Using the term "betas" as a fully grown adult

Great logic. It's obvious why you'd prefer to go for an unquestioning, submissive woman. You sound incredibly bitter and attacking my personal choices in a partner shows your insecurity.

Ironically, it's always the more "beta" (as you put it) guys who tend to go for more withdrawn, quiet, basic women.

But it isn't my place to judge. Ultimately what I want is a partner who I have similar values to, who I find attractive and trust. I'm mature enough to understand that other people might not share the same ideas as I do.

Why are you so defensive, user?

>It's obvious why you'd prefer to go for an unquestioning, submissive woman.
And why do you think that is? I've already said my reasoning - it's common sense.

> it's always the more "beta" (as you put it) guys who tend to go for more withdrawn, quiet, basic women.
Sure, because they have to. High-value women are far from withdrawn and quiet, they tend to be quite assertive in their own ways, dominant in female circles, high-maintenance, and will leave you if you don't provide. A woman who doesn't have huge mental issues and is attractive is going to be like that. But the smart ones submit for the right man, that's the key.

> Why are you so defensive, user?
About what, am I defensive? If anything I'm attacking your idea that women aren't instinctively attracted to men that are higher-value than them, and will support them, but also provide a dominant yet exciting role in their life.

I think perhaps we're arguing the same idea, from a different point of view.

I think you go for submissive women because they are far more likely to be financially and emotionally dependent on you, which is a draw for some. As you said, somebody who is independent is probably more likely to leave if they are unhappy, or strive for something better. If you have control over somebody because they have less life experience than the average person, that can result in a longer relationship (whether that's a happy one or not).

You literally stated that because I'm an independent, high earning woman, I must be less beautiful than woman who have chosen a different path to me. That's pretty insulting, especially as that isn't the impression I try to give. I consider that to be an assumption based on your own pre-determined views of what a successful woman looks like.

I don't owe you an explanation and I'm certainly not looking to appear like I'm being submissive to try and appease you, but all of the things you stated about the kind of partner I look for are untrue. My partner has a decent job, he most certainly isn't what you'd consider a "beta" guy either.

I'm not disputing the reasons why some people might prefer having a more submissive partner, but I certainly don't feel I'm a less worthy partner, or I choose less worthy partners on the basis that I decided to make myself as independent as possible.

I wasn't speaking for all women, merely myself. I don't find money or the type of career a man has as being that impressive as I've achieved that myself - somebody who hasn't probably would be really impressed by that.

Like I said, I think we're arguing over a bit of a strawman.

Is it possible for a laid back guy with little social experience with a good job to attract an highly outgoing lived out (at least she appears) woman (both 30+)?

>I think you go for submissive women because they are far more likely to be financially and emotionally dependent on you
Not at all, I think that arrangement brings out the best in both men and women, and is the natural state. I want a woman who has her priorities in order, and knows that her man will be happier if she well, tries to make him happy. A career woman can't spend all her time improving herself, making her man's life easier, and will probably be tired when she gets back to work, versus the woman who gets a nice life at home.

> I must be less beautiful than woman who have chosen a different path to me.
Given the same genetics you would be, and given that more attractive women have it easier to find high-quality men to support them, I think it's likely yes. I'm sure you don't look bad, but a submissive, feminine woman is what most guys prefer if they are honest, all other things considered. It's impossible for a woman to be her most feminine, when leading a masculine life (career, etc.)

> My partner has a decent job, he most certainly isn't what you'd consider a "beta" guy either.
Well he's either dominant over you sexually and emotionally, or you're going to resent him in the long-term. I know guys who date high-earning women but they themselves are similar or more accomplished always, and the woman always takes the back seat in the relationship as is natural, otherwise it never ends well.

> somebody who hasn't probably would be really impressed by that.
Yeah I agree here, I should have probably been more clear. High-earning, educated women DO exist, and this actually makes for higher standards for the guy. High-status women never go for guys of lower status, they still want to be dominated by their partner. Indeed, having accomplished things, you are no longer impressed by YOUR level of success, but surely a man far more accomplished than you, who's otherwise charming will be preferable.

And yeah we're not totally in disagreement.

Glad we could agree on disagreeing. Perhaps I'm not the dominant woman I perceived myself to be.

Not saying they don't exist, but they are extremely rare. There's a difference between women are dominant in their own fields and with other women, and women who don't desire a man who is stronger than them (intellectually and emotionally) and guides them. In most social animals, females have dominance hierarchies too.

I'm from Northern Ireland. Being an Irish Catholic here has far, far deeper connotations than simply religion. I don't need someone religious. But I need an Irish Catholic.

You wouldn't understand.

Go ahead and tell the rest of the story - that, thanks to her, Ragnar won victories that, without her, he would surely have lost.

Tell how Ragnar, after winning victories thanks to her, divorced her and married some new piece of ass.

THEN, even after this, Lagertha came to his aid when called.

Yeah bro, if a woman literally wins your battles for you like the pussy you are and then you divorce her... well maybe you deserved to get killed and usurped.

But nah, to bitch boys like you I’m sure that makes no sense huh.