If God tells you either to believe in him or burn in Hell...

How so?
I'm not sure I do. Didn't He create me with all my proclivities and personality traits? Didn't he create the conditions necessary in the world that would lead to some people not choosing God?
It doesn't seem to follow that if He really loved me, He'd make my default setting to live for eternity in Hell. If God can't save me from it unless I choose him, doesn't that mean the Devil is more powerful than him?
Non sequitur

No, hes saying you need him or he will torture you. It's not a warning, it's a threat

you don't it is very wise to send someone that will
burn in some place that is nothing but fire. literally
nothing but fire. Fire? can you imagine. That is
not veRy WiSe. kek
make that another earth. should be

Im14andthieisdeep

yes kikes burn in hell for eternity

>Didn't He create me with all my proclivities and personality traits? Didn't he create the conditions necessary in the world that would lead to some people not choosing God?
>Waaaah it's in my nature to go to Hell!
So you admit that you're a bad person?
So then why should I care about what you think? You're like a criminal complaining that jail exists.

If you genuinely cannot help going to Hell, then I'm glad you're going to wind up there with all the other unrepentant whores, murderers, rapists, and thieves.

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Being voluntarily separated from God is hell. You are left in darkness with your life of sin, of which the memory burns you for eternity. You can never escape that which you have done because it is all that you will have to think about. You will have all of eternity to contemplate the ripples of the sin you have originated into existence. The scorching memory of all the people you have hurt will be paraded in front of you on a moment to moment basis. You will not be able to escape it or stop it in any way as that will be the nature of your eternal reality.

It's not that God punishes you. You punish you. And you will be away from God forever...

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> accepting duties for a rewards is not a choice
lmao Jamal, you should ask your father to tea-

>Didn't He create me with all my proclivities and personality traits? Didn't he create the conditions necessary in the world that would lead to some people not choosing God?

>1 john 5:1-5
1Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. 2This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. 3In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, 4for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

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>So you admit that you're a bad person?
Well, Christians like you say we're all inherently evil. Even if you don't do anything wrong you're still inherently evil and deserving of Hell because God made you that way.
But the question was "if God doesn't want things to be a certain way why are they that way?". Can you answer it? If he only wants good things(which if he us good he should) then why did he make things that are not good?

>And you will be away from God forever
This is correct. Since he doesn't exist all are separated from him.

Which god? There are hundreds if not thousands of them to choose from

>because God made you that way
You made you that way.
God is Good user.
Your lack of understanding of His nature does not change this immutable fact.

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youtube.com/watch?v=f9WAb4qn3QY

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You are directly related to Adam and Eve.
They are your family.

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>You made you that way
I thought God was the creator? Then what is he? I'm pretty sure saying he isnt the creator of everything is some sort of blasphemy.
>Your lack of understanding of His nature
Yes, I do not understand something that does not exist because it can be studied or measured or quantified in any way.
>this immutable fact.
Making shit up doesn't make it fact.

>the creator
>the created

>I do not understand
Begin with an empirical study of Phenomonology and Solipsism.

>Making shit up
Denying "made up shit" doesn't "disprove" something that, by your worldview, is not "provable".

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youtube.com/watch?v=_0l_pSPEtMs

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>Hell by definition is the state of eternal torment induced by your eternal choice to reject God
>"Hey, if you don't love me this is just the way things are. Would not recommend."
>FUCK YOU GOD I NEVER HAD A CHOICE EVEN THOUGH YOU LITERALLY GAVE ME A CHOICE
The fact that retards choose Hell anyway is proof that we have a choice, and that in turn proves God loves us, which in turn makes you look like a cunt for not showing a little love back.

Not Him, but Satan. It really is a choice. God is not forcing you to do anything. You literally do have free will.

If you don't want to believe in God, then don't. But you can't try to guilt trip Christians about the fact that YOU are going to Hell. It is not our fault that you are going to Hell. So either accept that you are going to Hell (a Godless place, therefore this is what you are asking for in the first place) or accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and savior.

It's not that hard, retard.

God said to reject deception. By doing that you absorb yourself into universal intelligence. Stop your blasphemy.

Our Real History
youtu.be/X2q7jK7lxzw
youtu.be/6fd4fXnzxMc
youtu.be/tGRp9EgM76I

Bible in 24 hours - Crash Course - R.I.P. Chuck Missler

youtu.be/PZ3hESj__M8

Heavenly Warning of things to come

youtu.be/ot0cPU9MIOQ

Decoding Deception
youtu.be/Ih1LPFqHSSM
youtu.be/3sd9IOJCzYY
youtu.be/xNyeHzO1oEc
youtu.be/p9kM14keqNo
youtu.be/7fgvJpRO4kk

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It's still a choice no matter how you frame it.

God tells you things? What he saying? Because the fucker hast called in FOREVER!

I'm 20, raised Catholic, left for several years, and I've been going back to church but I'm just struggling with understanding big concepts like these. I'm not trying to tell Christians they're retards, I'm just trying to better understand.
What this user said what I'm trying to get at is if we're inherently evil and God wants us to live with him forever, why would he create evil people who will ultimately not live with him forever? Just to see them separated from his presence?
Why is belief in Jesus the redeeming factor? Didn't Jesus die on the cross to save me from my sins? He Himself said "it is finished" when he died on the cross. So either he cannot save me if I don't believe in Him, which means He is not all powerful, or He will not, which means he is petty.
It's more like "Hey, if you don't love me I'll allow you to suffer to the infinite degree for all eternity."
God created Satan. If God can't save me from Satan, that means Satan is more powerful than God, and if he just chooses not to save me from Satan, then how can God claim to love me?

Actually, that's not what he says. What he says is that Satan and Adam and Eve screwed things up, and that to get to holiness and to return to cleanliness which is contrary to our nature, we have to accept that he sent Christ to die on the Cross.
In doing so, we agree to accept that God will dwell within us, and guide us from that point forward.

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Never mind

I choose to refuse ultimatums all the time, an ultimatum is just an informed outcome of a choice

Still an ultimatum which means still jewish bullshit

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Bullshit! Loads of it.

The least you can do is hold the bucket

>he is petty
In your human opinion?
It's pretty bold to declare yourself a moral authority above God.
I'm thinking that this alone proves that you, personally, could use some perspective about your personal place in the world and the universe.

You could say this is a type of ad hominem, but it would be in response to your ad hominem towards God's ultimate moral authority.

*shrug*

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Read Mere Christianity by C.S Lewis. You can find your answer 4 chapters in.

If God is the ultimate moral authority and that kind of reasoning is truly moral, wouldn't that mean that my treating you that way is moral? If you told me you didn't love me, I would just let something awful happen to you when the express purpose of my existence is to save you from that awful thing happening to you?

>Critical Spirit
If you look into the ego in Buddhism, you might find that you can create infinitely recursive arguments regarding the individual, the ego, the perception of your own ego, and objective reality.

There are paradoxes that exist in reason, roadblocks or stumbling blocks (if you will), you raise with purpose, like piling up a hill of "reason" between you and the Cross.

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We are born with sin and can do nothing to save ourselves. Don't blame God, we did this to ourselves. The story could have stopped there but it doesn't because God loves us and send us payment for sin. Salvation is a gift. All you need is faith in Him.

Christ was sent to pay the debt of sin. If you have a gambling addiction and someone wants to clear your debts is that an ultimatum? Not at all. It is a gift and God wants to save us from our addiction to sin.

So what is it?

That isn't a threat either. He would love for you to survive and continue, but the process of ascension has a minimum bar to jump, faith, for you to survive this life.
If you choose not to believe (and it is a choice) then you will be annihilated, the valuble parts removed, but your instance will be annihilated.

>choose
Some people believe that you cannot refuse a true call from God. To do this, for one that has truly encountered God, is a great pain and oppression, justly, by God.

Jonah is an example of this, I believe

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>the Demiurge
>a rational and emotionally stable being
Pick one.

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Ultimatums are choices. Why should I care what you think if this is beyond you?
Repent or die.

this. read about the early Gnostic teachings, op.

You can start by always searching the scripures.
Instead of asking a man seek the word of GOD first.
Romans 11:33

O, the depth of the riches

of the wisdom and knowledge of God!

How unsearchable His judgments,

and untraceable His ways!

34“Who has known the mind of the Lord?

Or who has been His counselor?”g

35“Who has first given to God,

that God should repay him?”h

36For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

To Him be the glory forever! Amen.

I hope that helps.

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Found the brainlet with scope insensitivity. Sending someone to hell for being a "bad person" is like burning someone at the stake for littering.

That's not what the new testament says, that wasn't the point of the old testament, you foolish and ignorant mortal. Repent.

>I'm going to create a world with wicked people in it so that I can show my mercy to some and my justice to others
Ftfy

>delude yourself in any way that isn't Christianity
So meme flag, who are you really?

You do not even have a clue that there is more to it than that. There is a big factor that the mainstream churches won't teach that could help people understand just what we are up against.

youtu.be/J-uLWaYiFuI

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God is the good fruit.
You can still chose to eat some vegan shit.

I've read the aprocyphals, and the arguments on the children of Cain, Cain being the Devil's child, the nephilim, and more. While these may be true they're not important to salvation, which is obviously what these poor folk need. Not some distracting argument over whether or not Genesis is literal; the truth that God is real, he died for the saints and has condemned the rest as he will have mercy on whom he pleases and will execute justice on the rest.

God doesn't put people in Hell, people choose to go there. When you die, your soul's habitual desires are made permanent. If what you desired in life is God, then you go (again, through your own choice) to Heaven, with God. If what you desired in life is Satan or sin or alienation from God, then that desire is permanently established by you moving into Hell, again, by your own volition.

To summarize; evidentiary apologetics is helpful for strengthening the belief of the believer, but is distracting to those who haven't been brought to faith and repentance by God.

Hell is permanent separation from God, not torture by God.

>implying it's god who sends you to hell

there is no arguments against christianity, only guilty consciousness

I know it should not be the main default thing to focus on but it very important and so many people including Christians have no idea what Gen 6 is about. It never made sense and it is to important to be like o'well not sure what that was and forget about it.

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Let's summarize a bit.

God is real.

He made humans able to choose certain things, like what to eat and drink. We do not have free will, we cannot choose to poof a unicorn into existence (in true agency).

The choices that our ancestors made resulted in a curse on mankind.

Yes God knew that would happen, but just because I know a death robot is programmed to destroy a city doesn't mean that I don't want to punish it. Intrinsic value can be assigned without true agency.

God does not require you to do things so you don't go to hell. That's the opposite of the new testament.

The new testament states "Christ died for you, have faith in him as your Lord and Redeemer and God will not count your sins on judgement day."

God assigns Intrinsic value based on qualities and choices, but not on free will as free will doesn't exist. All of us have too little Intrinsic value to get to heaven. God therefore gives us faith and a savior, as he is merciful.

I'm glad it has strengthened your faith, but what I'm trying to point out is that it may weaken the others'.

>why would he create evil people
He didn't, he created free will and people chose to be evil.
> So either he cannot save me if I don't believe in Him, which means He is not all powerful, or He will not, which means he is petty.
He respects your free will, so you have to actively make the choice to accept salvation.
> It's more like "Hey, if you don't love me I'll allow you to suffer to the infinite degree for all eternity."
Well, yeah. If you don't choose life, you get death. If He didn't allow that possibility, then you wouldn't have free will.
> If God can't save me from Satan, that means Satan is more powerful than God, and if he just chooses not to save me from Satan, then how can God claim to love me?
God will not save you against your will. If He did, then we would just be dumb robots or beasts. Our choices only matter if they have consequences. If God saved everyone, then none of our choices or actions would have any meaning.

No, if free will doesn't exist then the whole thing is pointless. What do you mean by
> God assigns Intrinsic value based on qualities and choices, but not on free will
How can you make choices authentically without free will?

That's called imperfect contrition.

Perfect contrition avoids sin because of the love of God, not out of fear of punishment.

Either abide by his moral code or you and society suffers and crumbles. Abide by his guidelines or you face misery

>God tells you either to believe in him or burn in Hell
Where's this written or did you draw this conclusion?

Can't wait to hear what you actually believe then...

God is an incel fag that forces people to like him, otherwise he'll fulfill his sado-maso fantasies on them, and then blame them. He's the average robot.

> It's more like "Hey, if you don't love me I'll allow you to suffer to the infinite degree for all eternity."
To clarify, it's not really about God punishing us for not loving Him. Rather, we were created to find ultimate fulfilment in unity with our benevolent Creator. Just like a child will be happier with his parents than without them. It is our purpose. So, we fulfill our purpose by loving God, again, like a child naturally gravitates toward his parents. The warm embrace of loving parents brings joy to both the parents and the child. It's natural, but you can opt out if you so choose, and that brings suffering. If it didn't, then how could unity with our Creator bring joy?

I want a bible quote, mr. numnuts. And I believe in God the Father.

He created evil, then.

it's pretty weird, cause we can take the pleasures of this world even being saved, but people wont accept God
we are not perfect, we need a teacher, and who is better than God? but some people think they are too much for God so they choose not to follow him, it's not an aultimatun, you have your choice, you have to be half retarded to choose hell, but some people do, they even sell their soul to satan to have an easy live but burn in hell all eternity

Evil is nothingness. If you create something, then it has no meaning unless there could also have not been anything, i.e. nothing. By giving free will, God allowed the possibility of evil, but He did not create it, since evil is the choice of nothing over something. (You don't have to "create" nothing.)

He created nothingness, both conceivable and inconceivable. He created non-existence just as much as existence, because he is above both. Those are concepts that limit us, but not God.
He created evil, you fucking faggot.

> He created non-existence just as much as existence
How can non-existence be created? It doesn't make any sense.
> Those are concepts that limit us, but not God.
No, I don't think that's quite true. God has no part of Him that is nothingness. That would mean imperfection and sin. Yes, God is "limited" in that He cannot sin, He cannot become lesser.

We definitely believe we have free will, and in some sense we do. But God characterizes us as clay pots, some that he's made for destruction and some that he's made for sacred purposes. Just because you have will, doesn't mean that God can't predict your every action.

"God created evil"
He created evil beings who do evil things. He knows what evil is. But to say he created evil is like saying a lamp created a shadow.

>How can non-existence be created? It doesn't make any sense.
This is a concept that limits you and me, not God.
God is before and above time, space, and anything between, beside, above and below.
God created nothing, nothingness and the void. He created the state of his absence. He created the lack of anything. Empty space - that's his doing.
Or are you saying that nothingness came before God, or exists without him, without his permission? Are you saying that the void is more powerful than God?
We should praise the void, then, since it rules over God, and he has to abide by its rules.

People created evil.

I do t know if someone else said it but hell is destruction, God destroys you and your souls ceases to exist. Research for your self MANY bible verses claim destruction, never everlasting torture. And btw when discussing this fact. People point out that revilation verse that States somthing like eternal somthing. It's simply that the original bibles were in he rew and Greek so it dosent translate exactly. And what's one verse vs 76 others anyways. Research. Praise the FAIR lord.

>God is before and above time, space, and anything between
convenient

I'm saying that to "create" a void is a logically incoherent concept. God "obeys" the laws of logic. Can God make something simultaneously exist and not exist? No, because that doesn't make sense. Can God "create" nonexistence or, if you will, "uncreation?" No, because that's not a logically coherent concept.

God did create free will. This allows us to choose between Being, God, and Nothingness, separation from God. Where does nothingness "come from?" From the option to diminish ourselves by moving away from God.

Punish a death robot that is programmed a certain way.
God=programmer

Because you're the transgressor on God's universe. You're a sinner, and either you will pay for your sins in hellfire or you'll let the blood of Jesus Christ take care of it.

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Maybe you signed a document where you accept his will before you even existed in his universe?

I don't think it's his will, God is simply stating reality, if you don't believe in him you will burn in hell, he won't put you there and he cannot save you from it.
Why do you have to be toddlers about everything?
Is this the autism everyone is telling me about?
It's the frames of the matrix, sonny, believe in God or burn, you have the free will lad!
Reality is an ultimatum, nature is an ultimatum, learn to swim, there is a ultimatum that you must breathe KEKEK do you even see how retarded you sound OMG!!!! Crap this just went from sad to, childish to extremely funny!

Oh my

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People don't necessarily have to even believe in God in the first place if they want to go to Heaven, just be a good person.

This is simply true. The easiest, most effective way to go to Heaven is raise two strong children, but you can do any number of things to go into Heaven before dying as well so long as they amounted to an objectively real net positive in life using your actions on Earth. With the actions themselves tallied by gravitational waves, God will always know exactly how naughty or nice you were, and also if you were too 'naughty,' it isn't that God literally sends you to Hell, he just can't risk letting you into Heaven so he doesn't - in truth the evil spirits you did bad things with or maybe even for take you to Hell to torture you on the farm, however, but only if you match their electromagnetic resonance, which in of itself can only be accessed by being a destructive, selfish person who ultimately generated a large net positive in their actions through life. Obviously gravitational wave effects still apply as preordained before the damn's dictum.

It is so easy to get into Heaven or at least stable ground like Purgatory, just don't be a dick

What's the matter, dont want to bend the knee huh?

The strong will be humbled, and the weak exhalted

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The LORD is so powerful that it doesn't feel like a normal kind of choice; you're right.

>t.f.w. you post with so much righteousness that you kill the whole thread

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