Why does everyone hate the meme term "nice guys"?

>attractiveness
This is not the difference. One is legitimately nice, the other one THINKS he is being nice, while simultaneously acting as if women should actively be fighting for his dick. "Nice Guy" is an asshole and a massive hypocrite, while also being too stupid or understand this.

See, that's your problem. You're trying to satisfy others. Regardless of what you do people are going to be who they are. Stop giving a shit and do your thing, numpty. This is immediately going to go in one figurative ear and out the other, but you'll understand eventually (or not, if you're particularly dense and/or egotistical). Nothing you do or say matters because people don't talk to one another, they talk at one another louder and more aggressively until the other party concedes to whatever they're spewing. Humans are mindless animals too stupid to know they're mindless animals.

Depends on the context.
Nice guys are just regular guys that are polite and try not to be huge dickheads.
"Nice guys" are extremely fake and act obnoxiously polite in order to receive attention.

Can people like you stop pretending that everything in life is so simple? That you can boil down an entire fucking species to just “being mindless”? Holy shit, I’m so tired of seeing this shit running rampant in threads.

It’s all in the label. If you have to proclaim yourself as a nice guy, that’s the problem. Just about every guy in the world claims to be nice or thinks they are a nice guy, it’s stopped meaning anything. Just be who you are, don’t concern yourself with the types of women who don’t like your personality because it has nothing to do with how “nice” you are and everything to do with the fact that those particular women just aren’t interested in who you are as a person— but for every one of them who isn’t, there’s also one who is. Just exist, talk to people, don’t seek out results, these things truly do come when they are least expected, not because “that’s just how life works”, but because everything from your body language to your tone of voice can reflect how you truly feel and think about things. If you’re over-planning, over thinking, and psychoanalyzing situations of courtship, people will be able to see that and empathize with your anxiety. That’s not the first thing people should feel when they interact with you. If you’re calm and don’t care where things go, the rest will follow.

>and act obnoxiously polite
Thing is, they don't. Having been on the receiving end of one of these, they aren't Nice. They have an illusion that they are, perhaps a mental illness to further bury them in their own little fantasy, but they are not nice. At all.

This particular guy was "nice" in his general way of speaking. Overweight and refused to groom himself at all, but overall the first impression was not overly poor. But as soon as I got to know him just a little, it quickly became clear what the issue was.
>Refuses to eat healthy - no way he wanted to waste time cooking, that was the job of women, so that would come after he found a girl to go steady with.
>Refuses to work out, because he was nice, so it wouldn't matter, and only the most superficial whores would refuse him based on his looks
>Girls should not be too overweight though, and they should groom themselves. But he was nice and wouldn't mind paying for it if he had to. Outright said this was the girls version of "being nice" to guys
>Sex on the first date was expected, as otherwise the girl was just a teasing gold-digger.
The sheer lack of respect and insane double standards made it crystal clear to everybody else how much of a piece of shit he was. But for some reason, he was completely oblivious to this.

If you consider yourself a nice guy, and girls avoid our like the plague, you aren't a nice guy. That's a hard pill to swallow, but it's that, or remain alone and unwanted.

With "nice guys", the problem is not that their nice, it's that they are weak willed pushovers. Most people are decent human begins, and are kind to others they socially interact with, it's really common.
The typical nice guy will bend over backwards to impress a girl, he has no shame or self esteem. If they have a minor disagreement, he will bend to her will. Is he doesn't eat meat, he will change his stance on it too, even if steak is his favorite food. The problem is no one respects a spineless pushover. being "nice" actually has little to do with it. Most Alpha males, and real alphas, not the betas faking their traits to get laid, are nice and pleasant people to be around. In fact people start orbiting them and everybody wants to be their friend.

youtube.com/watch?v=14Gufx2_LDs&list=PLQDcEvx09tHHiA2nVGgyFq1pmc4jveDbA

This is why.
If you don't have anything in common with these people, then you have nothing to complain about.

>>You're never 'stuck in the friend zone' if you value having women as friends

Holy fuck, that's a good one.

>With "nice guys", the problem is not that their nice, it's that they are weak willed pushovers
I am saying this as a girl: this is not the problem with them.

I can't fault you for assuming it though, since their toxic attitude is mostly obvious to us girl. But the problem is that they aren't nice. They just appear nice enough, until you get close enough, and then the facade falls apart. That's why they appear like beta guys who don't have the guts to make a move. Trust me, they do, they just get turned down by any girl with the slightest shred of self respect.

If they at least looked good they might have had something going for them. But they have nothing. It's just pure thrash.

A "nice guy" thinks he is nice because he would never rape and murder a girl. And says so out loud. As if that makes him a rare special man, much nicer than everyone else.

You people are delusional and the abstract psychological profiles you all come up with sound like something out of a TV show. You will do anything to attack guys.

Why don't you correct us then. What was wrong in those writeups and why are you so angry?

This whole issue seems to mostly exist in lower ages.
If they're still in school, bullies are still a part of their world. Bullies are usually seen as pretty good people by everyone except their victims since they're usually more popular.
If you're bullied and girls find your bully attractive but not you, you can't be blamed for thinking there's something wrong with the world.

>who wants to love my gf with all of my heart, and devote my life to her

That's the problem.
Only 1% of women wants that too.
Its about personality, and showing others you have a youth spirit inside.
Showing others you want to live the world, having interests, doing cool stuff, being related with other young people, be a little rebel or wild.
Shit like this:
> love my gf with all of my heart, and devote my life to her.
Its a turn off. Its like saying you want to marry a woman already without living your life.
That way of thinking is more appropiate for someone with 30+ years old.

I'm angry because you're panting a false picture of guys who don't have much luck dating, as all being these weird psychopaths who pretend to be nice and stop being nice when girls reject them. Anyone gets mad when they are mistreated and lied about, there's nothing wrong with being mad about that, don't pathologize it

I don't rage at girls when they reject me, I've literally never done that once, understand?

Nice guy doesn't mean nice person. It's a specific archetype of guys. They tend to be passive-aggressive, entitled, rude, think too highly of themselves, think too little of others, and many other things that make them generally unpleasant people to be around and very unattractive. Being nice is good, being nice with the efforts to get your dick wet is manipulative, thinking that that somehow makes you special is delusional.

>I'm just shy and quiet, and always have been, and always will be, and I don't have any success with women for this reason.
Definition of insanity. If you know it's not working, take steps to improve it. You're an adult, identify your mistakes, identify your shortcomings, and work to fix them. Putting in work on your body takes effort, and it didn't start out easy. Do the same with your personality, and your inability to talk to people.
>Why have I been made into some meme that tries to say I'm evil or pathetic?
You're taking this overly personally, for one. It's not a dig on shy people, nor a dig on nice people. But going off your posts in this thread, you aren't a nice person. You're argumentative, you're judgmental, you're passive-aggressive, and you're rude. You think the world is out to get you and act like you're owed something special. Basically you aren't being pleasant to be around, but you act as though you're incredibly nice and special for it and we should recognize your specialness. That is what being a "nice guy" is. Not being someone who is a kind and magnanimous individual.

> I'm just shy and quiet, and always have been, and always will be, and I don't have any success with women for this reason.

>I'm a kind-hearted guy who wants to love my gf with all of my heart, and devote my life to her.

Riiiiiiiiiiight.

So would you say that you're a nice guy?

>But going off your posts in this thread, you aren't a nice person. You're argumentative, you're judgmental, you're passive-aggressive, and you're rude. You think the world is out to get you and act like you're owed something special
Please give specific examples of this. If you think these things of me, it seems that you're the one who is judgmental. What the fuck?

If you're not like one of those guys described why do you get so angry about it? There is no denying such guys exist.

It's literally an admission that being nice has nothing to do with women being attracted to you.

Because you're proving the exact point of my thread, that you people generalize every guy who doesn't have much dating success to be similar to those guys. It's like I have to prove I'm not one of those guys or else people in this thread just assume it, saying things like "riiiiiight" whatever that means

It's just like you didn't even read the thread. I point out that there is this stereotype and ask for an explanation, and you people respond with some bs describing experiences you've had with bad guys that don't apply to me.

Where did I do that?

Sure. The very first post starts out with a world-is-out-to-get me air.
>Do you just think it's impossible for guys who don't get much success in relationships to also be nice kind hearted guys?
>Why have I been made into some meme that tries to say I'm evil or pathetic?

This one is rude and argumentative, deliberately misunderstanding the point people are making.
>It seems like I have to meet a moving target. Be great but don't show it of. Show it off, because how can anyone know if I keep to myself? Nothing satisfies you judgmental people.
On top of deliberately misunderstanding the point he said this is also more self-pity, creating impossible, artificial goals so you don't have to change and so the world can be the problem instead of you.

Here, you're presumptuous and rude, and in virtually every post you're practically looking for an argument. Whether or not you're baiting intentionally - I suspect you are - you're still doing so.

You've mentioned people are judgmental and such, but here you're just attacking other people, judging them, because you don't like what they have to say or a very common experience with people who act a certain way that virtually everyone finds unpleasant to be around (ie. the nice guy archetype).

Here you're taking stuff overly personally again. It shows a significant lack of emotional maturity. People aren't calling you, or others like yourself, psycopaths. They're saying they're not pleasant people to be around. You're smart enough that you can use that information and grow with it. You have faults, everyone does. So identify them and actually work to change them.

Continued.

>it seems that you're the one who is judgmental. What the fuck?
Judging you would be making value judgement based on these things. I'm not. Instead, I'm sitting here trying to help you out and calmly identifying things you could work on for you. You have really thin skin, and you need to realize people who criticize you are usually not out to get you. You won't get any valuable advice in life if you can't accept criticisms of others.

You're not unfixable, you're not some failure of a human being. But if you want to improve the quality of your life and make people feel more positively about you/want to be around you, then you're going to need to start taking some hard looks at yourself and identifying your shortcomings. You're also going to have to start putting yourself out there, and work on being more social in your own right, even if it is scary. You'll only do yourself favors, both in terms of career, making friends, and finding a girlfriend by learning to be more social, developing a thicker skin and learning not to take criticisms personally, being less quick to jump to conclusions about people or argue when they're talking to you, and generally more chill and laid back.

I get what it's like and the whole reason I'm bothering to write these posts is because I was there once - and to a point still am. The difference between you and I is that I attempt to mitigate it, that I try not to behave the way you do upon receiving criticisms even if I feel they were undeserved, to try not to lash out at people, or assume the worst in them. I try, really hard and despite bad social anxiety, to put myself out there in social settings and be sociable and make friends. I try to identify opportunities and take them.

People aren't assuming you're like this from the fact you're unsuccessful with women. They're assuming you're like it from how you've conducted yourself in this very thread. Learn from what they are saying.

All you're doing is judging my tone and other bullshit. Nothing I've said is factually incorrect. You people need to become a bit more autistic.

Where did anyone say that men who have not had success in dating are all psychopaths? You are projecting.

Not who you're replying to but you're beyond hope if you can't even read the two posts he wrote for you and not self reflect even a little. He was right in everything he wrote about how you come across too, I agree with all of it.

Don't get me wrong, there exists a ton of actual nice guys. But the general type of "Nice Guy" who complains about girls only liking "Bad Boys" are almost universally misogynistic, self centered assholes, who has deluded themselves into thinking they are God's gift to women.

I am not sure why you are getting defensive though. I never once pointed out anyone in this thread as being this type of person.

>It's literally an admission that being nice has nothing to do with women being attracted to you
It does. What is DOES mean, is that calling yourself nice, doesn't mean others agree with you.

It is easy to label yourself as a super nice person, but it is far from as easy to actually act like a super nice person.

nothing personal nerd

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That evil "nice guy" mostly gets built up in a feedback loop of hate where you get the input from others who hate them and process that to hate them more and feed it into someone else who amplifies it further.
Then you do advanced analysis and write long original essays about how terrible they are with what seems as your own analysis but somehow manages to have exactly the same points as the tens of thousands of texts that came before yours.
Since they're so evil, every signal that you perceive to be from one of them gets twisted to be as terrible as possible since you know that they're bad.

>"Nice Guy" who complains about girls only liking "Bad Boys"
Is it correct that those guys are mostly pretty young? Then .
Someone with low social skills and (and maybe is a bit immature) is correct in thinking he's such a great and nice person compared to bullies.
Even though they themselves might not be great, there's things that it makes sense to get bitter from.
Now I'm not talking about if they continue being like, just about the seed to the behavior being justified.

imo being nice and respectful shouldn't be seen as a task or something to be rewarded for, so why would you compare yourself to assholes?

>girls only liking "Bad Boys"

that is a survival and evolutionary mechanism. The bad boy conquer would have killed her for not submitting. also it makes sense evolutionary speaking for women to reproduce with stronger and more intelligent men that build better weapons. women have an instinct to like bad boys so they are not entirely wrong.

shit bro imma need some citations on that statement

Well just look at Sweden. Women have emasculated men and they can't protected them from Muslim invaders. Swedish police are quitting and they are afraid of the Muslims. So naturally the women are opening their legs to the Muslim invaders as a survival mechanism because their men can't protect them.

I said citations not false correlation stormnigger

the meme nice guys is a joke about the passive/aggressive entitlement that that stereotype has

"devote my life to her"
This is why you're creepy and girls don't want to hang out with you. Get your own fucking things going on, and then a girl may try to hang out with you.

Fucking emotional parasite

What do you women have against cults anyways?

You all like that cult movie with the rich guy and all the sex stuff. My cult is practically the same thing, except I drive a prius, and survive off food stamps.

>shy and quiet man
This is as bad for dating as
>bordeline person disorder and morbid obesity
for women

For anybody shy who read this post: do whatever it takes to completely erase "shyness" from your life or you will die alone as virgin.

Some recommended literature:
bookofpook.neocities.org/
slatestarcodex.com/2014/08/31/radicalizing-the-romanceless/

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OP, I can tell from your original post and the autism you're spewing in this thread that IRL you're probably not as nice as you think. Not that you're mean or anything, but more likely than not you're "off." Normals can tell with people like you, you give off this scent and everyone knows there's something wrong upstairs, women sense it and get uncomfortable when you're trying to chat them up. Maybe tell me how a couple of your recent attempts with women went. I'd love to see a picture of your face.

>implying people who enjoy Fifty Shades literally desire their real life to be like that
You might actually be autistic

there are four cases:

nice + hot
nice + ugly
bad + hot
bad + ugly

if you are hot you get laid. this has pretty much nothing to do with how nice you are.

some people, mostly but not entirely men, are completely okay with being shallow. some people, mostly but not entirely women, are insecure about how shallow they are.

because they are insecure, they like to pretend two things: either pretend that good looks are an outward reflection of inward beauty (this is called "disney"), or pretend that they can sense badness within all ugly people (this is called "ugh I hate nice guys"). by pretending these things, they can hurt other people without meaning to.

nice ugly people, realising that disney is not entirely accurate and that sometimes men and women sleep with people who are undeniably bad just because they're hot, sometimes speak out about these pretensions. when they speak out, they are assumed to be mean ugly people speaking out about not getting laid, when they are really nice ugly people asking disney and hot people to stop lying to everyone.

you can safely ignore all of this by making friends, who won't automatically assume you're a bad person, and who will help you explore subjects like unrealistic beauty standards, gender roles, beauty as a proxy for genetic mutation, and historical marital norms.

>That evil "nice guy" mostly gets built up in a feedback loop of hate where you get the input from others who hate them and process that to hate them more and feed it into someone else who amplifies it further.
No it doesn't. That would require I spoke to other girls at all about this. It is all personal experience.

>Then you do advanced analysis and write long original essays about how terrible they are with what seems as your own analysis but somehow manages to have exactly the same points as the tens of thousands of texts that came before yours
If thousands of people tell the same tale, chances are the problem is real. This is how stereotypes pop up. They exist for a reason.

Unless you fall into this category of Nice Guys, I am not even sure why you are defending this. I don't mind anyone playing devil's advocate, but trust me, these people exist. They are just not at all as common as it sometimes seem. Legitimate nice guys exist, as well as the subset of creepy autistic nice guys who just suck at interacting with girls. But those aren't part of the Nice Guy issue.

>Hey guys, I am not taking children, I deserve a commendation for that don't I?
In all seriousness, I never cared with people below the age of 25. It only became an issue when I started encountering 30 year olds doing it. Immaturity is one thing, that can be excused, and they can still grow out of it. A full grown man has no such excuse.

It is also not the problem, because half of these Nice Guys could easily get a girl if they were actually nice.

t. Jow Forums virgin teenager

>Unless you fall into this category of Nice Guys, I am not even sure why you are defending this
You don't understand honor or caring for others clearly

The feedback loop analysis is completely correct. Nobody's saying "nice guys" don't exist. You just come up with these elaborate psychological profiles, negative ones at that, of random strangers on the internet based solely on tiny bits of information. You're proving the point of the post.

>imo being nice and respectful shouldn't be seen as a task or something to be rewarded for,
It would be beneficial for both of us if you put less effort into trying to building strawnen to attack.
In the hypothetical scenario I'm referring to, the bully would be considered a lot more attractive than the bullied. There's something to compare. If you get the impression that bullies are usually considered more attractive than victims you might think that there's a correlation.

They're mostly segregated so there's was limited contact with the Swedes. It is nothing like you described.
The consequences are getting a lot more severe than before though. Fortunately that means that more people start questioning the lies they've been told by the (((swedish and American media))) and the government.

calm your tits, I wasn't attacking you nor I was arguing with you previously
I was also talking about the hypotetical scenario you've built. people shouldn't see themselves as deserving of affection because of their good attitude: people should be "good" because it's right, not because it gets you things in return

It's implied that they're not one hundred percent genuine in their kindness because their motivation is partly to put their penis inside the woman they're displaying kindness towards. They're often accused of being overly nice to compensate for features they have which are unattractive.

It's a red herring and distraction. Sweden's real problem is hysterical man-hating feminists having too much power.

>of random strangers on the internet
No. I am talking real life individuals I have physically met. You seem to misunderstand what the discussion has been about.

Only if you consider “friend” and “lover” mutually exclusive labels. Optimally, your lover is also your friend. It’s about adding an aspect of the relationship, not replacing it.

>Here, you're presumptuous and rude,
Don't pretend that you have some kind of high ground,.You act the same way.

>what they have to say or a very common experience with people who act a certain way that virtually everyone finds unpleasant to be around

That's pretty much the definition of judging people based on a sterotype. You just worded it in a very specific way to make it sound more friendly and less hateful and toxic.

>Why does everyone hate the meme term "nice guys"?
>Do you just think it's impossible for guys who don't get much success in relationships to also be nice kind hearted guys?

So do you not seriously not understand contextual language or are you pretending not to so that you can have something to be upset about? The term "nice guy" and "good, kind hearted guy" aren't the same thing. "Nice guy" is a specific archetype, not an insulting monicker for good men. The only person that's pushing that archetype on you is you. However, I believe you already know all of this and are just purposefully playing stupid so that you can throw yourself this wonderful pity party you got here.

It's a common insult, any time a guy complains about having no luck he gets called a "nice guy" and gets told to stop expecting girls to have sex with them even though he expressed no such expectation, rather disappointment that the things he actually wants, which is love and friendship, are missing

When will you stop lying? Nobody has ever done that in this thread, nor do they do that in real life. The only ones who bring up the term "nice guy" are the ones that have been described here.

No it not. Nice Guy is something a guy calls himself.

It is only used on the internet as an insult.

I find it funny that we have a lot of posters talking about real people they have actually met, who matches the description of a "Nice Guy", and then we have a group of people who for some reason vehemently defend them, and act super offended about someone just describing a guy that people feel fits into the category of Nice Guy. And this is despite people not refering to random strangers on the internet.

It kinda makes you think, doesn't it?

None of what you said was accurate.

Its mostly a Reddit thing

I don't understand.

>Why does everyone hate the meme term "nice guys"?

Because most men are white knights and women project.

Long answer:

You'll get guys that at some point in a friendship they decide that they like a female friend and ask her out. She will probably say no because their feelings don't align.

IF he is unhappy at all, the girl can't deal with it. Women are raised to be accommodating. To be low conflict. To make others happy. To be the good princess. So they project blame onto the friend that asked them out. They warp their mind into believing that it isn't them that hurt the guy's feelings, its that he had an elaborate plot for months if not years to trick the female friend into sex.

Everyone else, being white knights and wanting that vag goes along with it. So they hate on the "nice guy" for trying to nice his way in some vag.

This is almost always some shit the girl makes up to protect her ego.

Slightly related, the nice guy shit came from dudes bitching about getting freindzoned. They'll have a little put that they are such nice guys, why does Stacey date bad boys. The answer being that because the bad boy is hot.

Really, it all comes down to girls are cowards, and boys are idiots that can't read body language. Otherwise the girls would sack up and deal with hurting some guys feelings, and the guy could pick up she isn't interested before asking.

>>Refuses to eat healthy - no way he wanted to waste time cooking, that was the job of women, so that would come after he found a girl to go steady with.
>>Refuses to work out, because he was nice, so it wouldn't matter, and only the most superficial whores would refuse him based on his looks
>>Girls should not be too overweight though, and they should groom themselves. But he was nice and wouldn't mind paying for it if he had to. Outright said this was the girls version of "being nice" to guys
>>Sex on the first date was expected, as otherwise the girl was just a teasing gold-digger.
>The sheer lack of respect and insane double standards made it crystal clear to everybody else how much of a piece of shit he was. But for some reason, he was completely oblivious to this.

this is how we raise little boys. "its whats on the inside the counts" and girls are pretty by magic.

Being nice or kind is not the problem. The meme was born, because being "nice" is not a reason why someone should date you or any other nice guy. "I'm a nice guy, so I don't understand why I've never had a gf" is an idiotic mantra to spout, because it implies that niceness is some kind of a wonderful, rare quality that deserves acknowledgement on its own. It isn't. There are plenty of people who are nice, but only the ones who have nothing else going on for them feel the need to highlight their niceness.

This is true.
It is also the reason why women do not possess honor or loyalty, and why they have to be enforced on them.

In our ancient, tribal past, when a tribe lost a war against another tribe, death was what awaited all the men of that tribe, whereas the women got to keep on living and breed with the conquerors. That's why the concept of honor and loyalty evolved in men, because being treasonous or disloyal to the male ingroup and your tribe, could lead to the death not only you, but every other male in the group.
It is also why traitors are despised by males, even by the males of the conquering group. Being traitorous male makes you a potential liability to any group that accepts you.

Whereas women never faced these evolutionary pressures, and thus their psychology never developed the concepts of honor and loyalty. All they had to worry about was spreading their legs to the conquering males.

There is no escaping this evolutionary history of our species.

History according to basement-dwelling incels: the post.

Because there are a bunch of people who pretend to be nice and their mask falls off when they don't get what they want.

you care to much about the opinions of irrelevant people in your life. Here there everywhere. I used to be just like you user. A guy that tries to be nice (thats me not you) and people walked all over me and nobody gave a shit I was a decent person. All they saw was an easy mark or just another victim.

Now I still try my best to be a good and decent person but I also know people are not good and decent on average. So get alot more selective who you let in and around you in life.

As for this nice guy thing it's been like this since the 90s. I remember girls bitching about someone who was nice but actually wasnt. Better anons have explained this in the thread as guy is a massive prick and asshole but thinks if he acts nice he deserves his cock worshipped by a girl.

I assume you mean you are the kind hearted giving nice guy. Society also hates those types of people. Dial it back and keep it more hidden as a power. You need to put yourself first more and stop trying to win people over since people on average are shit.
Why have you been made into a meme? Easy because females are so anti-male in this day and age if you mention you are nice or a girl see's a nice guy being nice she automatically dries her vagina up so it's some sahara desert area and she assumes he's a fake nice guy. That's default settings.
Now add in the media ripping apart people called incels and they clump alot of groups into that also... so you can be a legit nice guy but you're probably being lumped in with incel so a girl by default is gonna ew no.

No solution for ya OP cuz I am alot more of an selfish asshole in life and sadly girls like me more and my friends dont play stupid bullshit with me. So idk but hope some of this answers things for you.
Best of luck in life

M8, how the fuck do you think conflicts worked in our tribal past?
If you accept evolution, and understand how our ancestors lived, which was in scattered tribes fighting for territory and food, you can't escape the conclusion that poster presents.

I am an university student studying history actually, but thank you for the strawman.
How about you actually present an argument against my post.

Why is shyness so off putting to women?
I can't help being shy. Social situations make me anxious as fuck, and I am only really comfortable around my family members and relatives.

>Loyalty and honor is in all males
>Women are all disloyal
Whatever university you're going to, it must be total shit to teach you things like that. Or you are a shitty student. That's straight up Jow Forums tier incel memes.

>You'll get guys that at some point in a friendship they decide that they like a female friend and ask her out.
>tfw this is the only way I have ever developed feelings for girls.

I don't understand how people can just go out and start relationships with basically strangers. I need to know a person before I can have any real feelings for them. Just going and asking out some hot chick is extremely weird to me. Why would I ask out someone who I know nothing about?

Not necessarily off putting, but girls are taught their entire lives to sit and wait for prince charming to swoop them off their feet. A guy who doesn't make a move, well... Too bad. Trust me, as a girl, it can be anxiety inducing to even consider making a move on a guy, because girls are not supposed to do that. It's no just too bad for you, I had a friend for 4 years I wanted to date, and I was 99% sure was into me as well, but neither of us could man up and make the first move. I tried before he left for a university across the country, just to get I out there, and I ended up vomiting due to sheer anxiety. It's insane. It just went against every fiber of my being for some awful reason.

I really envy girls that has the courage and spine to ask out a guy, but I sure understand why there are so few of them.

It is not off putting. It is way worse. You as a shy man are INVISIBLE. You know, like an NPC without a label in an rpg game. That is you if you are shy.

At best even if you manage to get noticed, you will never be percieved as sexual object to the woman. You will be cute. Cute like a puppy. And get
>user, i like you of course! I like you as a brother
sentence instead.

Try alcohol. We dont call it social lubricant for nothing. Until first sex session happens, you CANT afford to bee yourself aka being shy.

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>Loyalty and honor is in all males
Loyalty towards the group, and it's protection, are overwhelmingly male traits.
Men are willing to die for their family, tribe and nation far more eagerly than women are, and men have historically died just to keep their honor intact.

>Women are all disloyal
More disloyal on average than men are. I am not speaking about relationships, I am speaking about loyalty to the group, which should be apparent given the context of the discussion. Again, when a tribe lost a war, men died, women got new husbands. It is utterly insane to claim that these different evolutionary pressures didn't have effects on the psychologies of men and women.

And I am not saying that honor and loyalty is in all males, or that all women are disloyal to their core, I am speaking of averages. Of course there are disloyal and honorless men, traitors etc, but in the past, such men didn't really get that far among other males, because men in general, abhor those behavioral traits, because they are a liability for the survival of the male group.

Women on the other hand, didn't face as much evolutionary pressure to be loyal to their group, if anything, they faced pressure to not be loyal to their group, as if their group lost a war, and they remained loyal, they would die as well. Whereas disloyalty was rewarded with the chance to reproduce.

And again, you keep attacking my character, instead of addressing my points. You should know that your behavior is pointless on an anonymous discussion forum. You can't shame or smear me here.

How the fuck is a guy supposed to know if a girl even likes him, if a girl doesn't even give the slightest of hints?
In all of my 24 years of existence, I have never thought that any girl has ever liked me.

> You as a shy man are INVISIBLE.
I know. Parties things usually go like picture related for me. I just don't know what to say to other people, or how to involve myself with them in their little groups.
If someone comes to talk to me, face to face, I can socialize just fine, but I for the life of me, can't make myself part of a social situation.

Alcohol hasn't really helped me that much. I have never been drunk enough where I could just randomly go to talk to strangers etc. The thought of doing that makes me anxious even if I am completely drunk.

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>How the fuck is a guy supposed to know if a girl even likes him, if a girl doesn't even give the slightest of hints?
>In all of my 24 years of existence, I have never thought that any girl has ever liked me.
Often difficult, I'll give you that. We turn just as invisible as shy guys.

It's not a sure thing, but if a girl sticks around you, it's a sign she at least likes your presence. Not necessarily likes you enough to date you, but it never hurts to ask.

The issue comes up when you have two shy people too afraid of asking each other out.

If you are still capable of thinking, you arent drunk enough. Drink more. Just dont do it super fast or you will get alcohol poisoning. No more than one shot per 10 minutes and at max you will black out, but survive just fine.

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I'm gonna have to agree with the guy your replying too. You see this everywhere you go. TV, school, job, managers at work, really makes you think.

These people itt aren't your friend user. You are competition to them or you're someone they're trying to repel. Their arguments don't have to be true. They just have to make it believable enough so other people will judge you. You might think there aren't women out there who want to change you, destroy what you were and genuinely wish to hurt you. These women want to use you to elevate their position signaling to some other she deems better than you that she is worthy. These social media generations of people are deeply flawed individuals and they aren't just going to reciprocate your kindness with others. The term was made up to harm you. It's quite literally propaganda.

This nice guy meme is stupid. You can be friendly to women all you want. The key is to talk to them like you don't expect anything from them. Don't let them have any power over you just because they have different body parts.

>The key is to talk to them like you don't expect anything from them
I would advise to go the exact opposite route unless you aren't attracted to the person. There is no such thing as not wanting something from another, we all do. This premise about no expectations from others it a trap and a lie. My advice is the admit to yourself you want something from them, be it respect, kindness in return, or sex. My advice is to be direct instead of coy unless you're tryna lay some game which most people like op dislike. Be chill and don't let them have power over you is good advice.

Some are like that, others aren't. I have to wonder why people even bother to write such pointless generalizations. Does it sound deep to them?