Even ancaps should be in favor of this...

i think the fundamental problem of having an economy where most of the population is low-value is a far more fundamental problem than slapping on the bandaid of min. wage and/or food stamps

Lol this implies that the folks getting gibs would now get less money from the government since they're earning more.
False.
They will only work enough hours to not affect their gibs. As soon as they start making enough money to have gibs taken away, they will quit working.

this is always the best response to people who don't think large wage increases across the board can do no harm. it's obvious to anyone who understand economics that cost of living varies from area to area, and that a dramatic rise in wages isn't going to work for most places. If people don't understand that you just ask them why not $50 an hour, why not $500 an hour.

Temp agencies for spics always rejoice when someone comes with the retarded idea of unrealistic minimum wage.

Employers always threaten peoples jobs when they start talking about minimum wage hikes. It's just an intimidation tactic.
youtube.com/watch?v=Ykq8im7c4k4

>things (((can’t))) be any better so better start sucking the piggy dick and keep begging for the table scraps.
Bootlickers are the worst

yup i guess it got nothing to do with the real value added by those shit jobs

Or, instead of treating the symptom of low wages, we could actually treat the cause of low wages, that being shit education and an over-saturated unskilled labor market.

Subsidizing job training, limiting immigration, and removing regulatory impediments to building cheap, high density housing near economic centers would unironically solve the problem.

I wonder what would happen if work place regulations and wages laws were scrapped. Work would become harder, but possibly workers would put more emphasis on gaining skills, taking education seriously, and forming families and tight knit communities. That's what a lot of people in favor of regulation and intervention fail to take into account, people adapt to their situation and tough situations can cause positive adaptions

>They will only work enough hours to not affect their gibs. As soon as they start making enough money to have gibs taken away,
Why do politicians and lefties never take this into consideration? There are people that are constantly calculating how much money they can earn each month without going over the line that will make them lose their gibs.
It is one of the main problems of welfare, at one point it becomes more financially reasonable to work a shittier job than keep growing since (Shitty job + Welfare > Normal job + No welfare).

laid off dude here
i get about $450 a week from the state
thats about equivalent to making 12/hour or 24K a year

i own my house and my car; it's quite comfy

Stop importing 3rd worlders driving down wages

Increasing the minimum wage drives the cost of everything up. The dollar amount is higher, but your purchasing power is either the same or worse than you started off with.

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But if low/unskilled labor isn’t shat on, how will the ceo get his million dollar bonus he “worked” for?

Why stop at $15 an hour? Why not make it $100 and hour or $1000 an hour. We could get rid of poverty with the stroke of a pen!!!

>Ancaps
>Supporting minimum wage
Wtf am I reading?

>get paid x /hr
>rent is 60x /hr
>now paid 2x /hr
>rent now 30x /hr
>next year rent goes up to 60 x/hr

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It's not an intimidation tactic, if wages are doubled businesses that pay around that amount are going to cut workers and keep only the people who are willing to do twice the work, and some will choose to automate. It's not an intimidation tactic, it's common sense. Also
>posting TYT unironically

How about bring back the gold standard, make the dollar’s value stronger and deflate price of goods, end fiat currency and spit on Nixon’s grave.

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your implying a linear correlation across all wages, thing they never did, that's not even the issue with min wages, voicing brainlets complaints against min wages only hurts the cause against them

Less people working would mean more people using welfare. Why does he think it would help?

Many politicians do, they just don't care because pushing such policies gets them votes and acclaim. There's a huge deadzone for people on benefits. If they want to get off the dole it takes a dramatic increase in productivity and skills to make up the gap that they will lose going off of benefits.

The market is telling you to move. More useful people are needed there

Yeet. This lad is woke.
Also, raising the minimum wage decreases the purchasing power of everyone’s dollar, not just min wage workers. It requires proportional raises for skilled labor to match the incentive. Also, higher wages gets passed on to consumers and workers because firms either have to pay employees more, leading to higher production costs, leading to higher prices, or people get laid off to keep prices down, leading to worse working conditions and higher unemployment.

What? I'm making a point about artificially increasing min wage being retarded and inducing inflation

>but how will richfags cope if we go full commie
By moving to country with more neoliberal policies. Yay for world-spanning supply chains. Local economical policy is basically a compromise between appeasing wagecucks and staying competetive on global market.

It's easy to hallucinate banal policies to "fix" this, but the reality is that anything like that just puts you against the flow of the river and you'll end up even more worse off.

>failing to see the person you're responding to is arguing for less regulation
>failing to see the person you're responding to is arguing for keeping low skill third worlders out of the country
>falling for the 'muh ceo doesn't work hard or provide value' meme

Most likely it would increase the welfare spending cause there would be less work because the minimum wage would be higher

Increasing wages would mean more expensive products and more unemployement.

Public housing is cancer and should be abolished anyway.

Imagine what happens when automation makes millions of people not only unemployed but unemployable

careful, NEETs get the ROPE

Isn't foodstamp requirements adjusted to minimum wage?

they do take it into consideration, Bernie just thinks he'll be able to have another policy win when "there's a sharp increase in minimum wage workers being kicked off of desperately needed family nutritional assistance" and introducing a stop gap benefits preservation bill that eventually becomes permanent

You can also kiss shitloads of jobs goodbye, like what happened in Canada, with nobody in major cities benefiting from it at all because $15/hr is still too low.

>bootlickers are the worst
>checks flag
Oh boy.

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Just give everybody a million dollars and watch what happens. This fucking Jew was the Reddit champion and they gave him hundreds of millions of dollars, and he gave what he didn't keep himself to Hillary. What a fucking guy.

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he's telling you you should stop being an unskilled cuck that makes 1/60 of rent per hr and do something more productive that pays 1/30, if you cant then move to a cheaper place

Pretending niggers. Beavers. And white trash would get jobs when they could lay around all day and still get cheetos

It only seems to work in small amounts, in cities with well performing economies. So rent and local costs will go up, but the price of goods shipped in won't see as high of an increase in cost for the most part. Nationwide it's an absolute nightmare, Bernie is a moron, but what's new

Millions of people already ARE unemployable. Minimum wage and tax incentives are geared to give em at least illusion that their job matters. If the job market was without the wagecuck appeasement factor, you'd see 40% unemployment world-wide.

This. The entire scale will shift. If a Big Mac is $3 at a $7 min wage, it will be $6 at a $15 min wage. Get government out of everything except foreign relations, national security and disputes between states.

I'm all for drastic increases in minimum wage as it will speed up the process of automation replacing low skill labor.

Your world view is amusing. I’d love t see a group of workers try to open and operate a high-skilled, innovative business with no “boss” or executives. It has literally never been done. Literally every convenience of modern life was created because of market demand, not central planning. In short, get fucked, some people will always be in charge of you, because most people are children and can’t think for themselves.

Will niggers suddenly start working if minimum wage was higher?

This. "Minimum wage" is communist shit that not even we do. Some jobs just aren't worth $15 an hour. Deal with it or do something else.

you must be a troll. A minimum wage that high defies the laws of economics so fuck off.

Niggers don't get basic economics all they're good for is picking cotton and hanging off trees

Why not $500/minute?

That's not what will happen because the economy will spiral into a depression until companies just start using robots instead of people for 99% of jobs

Things can be better, but it's about tradeoffs. Having a discussion with you abut tradeoffs is pointless because you lack understanding of basic economics, see your memeflag for more information. I mean I literally just pointed out the obvious flaw in Bernie's proposal and you called it bootlicking.
You're a moron

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How does raising the minimum wage solve anything? How about lowering the debt and stop printing money so that the dollar can have more value than two dead flies.

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We can force private enterprises to have set prices. A controlled economy is the future of civilized nations; it will ensure that life is livable. These corporations have more than enough profits to share.

Yea I know. Which doesn't make any sense as a response to my post

A high minimum wage hurts those it's intended to protect. Companies have to increase prices in order to compensate for the increased wages they have to pay. Unemployment goes up, too. If you have to pay them more, you can't afford to hire as many workers.

>never been done
Except, most prominently, in computer software. But you're right there's always some sort of "boss" at the top, even if the operation is largely altruistic.

The difference is simply they don't expect to extract massive rent out of it in return.

Pft no

Since 1980, the benefits of increased productivity have accrued to corporations (and their owners, meaning stock holders) in an increasing proportion.
Workers are getting less.
Our elected officials in Washington DC are responsible for this gradual shift favoring corporations.
This is why it's getting harder to make it unless you are rich.

And increasing the $15 per hour minimum wage to $16 per hour will decrease the spending on the $15 per hour minimum wage by $15 per hour. Bernie Sanders is an economic genius!

It will make more people unemployed unless it's coupled with a massive purge of about 40 million mexicans willing to work for $2.59 per hour.

>even ancaps should be in favor of this direct contradiction to their ideals

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The main issue with things like syndicalism is eventually people stop using profits to innovate and grow the business, they instead elect to give themselves bigger take home. If there's nobody to make the hard decisions what happens is everyone just chooses to work less and get paid more, and then your firm gets outcompeted by ones with a more hierarchical structure

We advocate for a worker's government to be in control of these enterprises until they can be completely nationalized. It is impossible to ensure that everyone can be "rich", but our goal is to make it so that poverty is eradicated. We can do this by ensuring the standard of living is higher in our countries; this is where the capitalists fail to realize their system is inherently flawed.

What happened in the US? In the 1950's capitalism worked fine (with high taxation on the rich but lets ignore that for a sec), but as time went on wages increased, but the standard of living decreased thanks to inflation outpacing wages. A capitalist system with a free market cannot fix this problem; the corporations infiltrated your government and made it so that they dictate policy, including the influx of immigration the right likes to blame the left on. The corporations want to make more capital, so they import cheap labor and wages go down for everyone except the elite.

>price controls
When will commies join us in the 21st century where their stupid ideas have already been put to rest not only by theory, but by empirical data drawn from their many failures? Price controls, that's really your answer?

>Even ancaps should be in favor of [policy of more government control]
please kill yourself

Yes, please. That way I can just reduce my hours at work and continue to receive benefits xD

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Controlled economy is exactly the problem we have right now. Ignores the very fundamentals of supply and demand.

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I don't think this would be a smart move but I do think it would scare companies and remove the lazy niggers from my job
>job has positions for parolees
>get two negresses on Friday
>they spend Fr, Sa, Su "cleaning" the same 8x8 square patch of the warehouse
>they take a total of 4 hours in breaks across the 10 hour shifts
>they confront supervisors that the work is beneath them
>mfw thinking about welfare reform and min wage increase
A double whammy that'll see millions of people like that with nothing but their bad attitudes to keep them warm and fed, fuck them

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fucking ridiculous, I get ~600 every 2 weeks at 12/hr base because 40\hr weeks are impossible with management trying to get labor bonuses, and you get to sit around doing nothing for more money? Fuck this gay earth

It doesn’t even work in high performing cities very well. Most massive cities, at least in the US, are already experiencing crises as far as cost of living is concerned. And with the cost of rent and land businesses have a generally much higher overhead. Artificially raising wages does little good for any low earner that doesn’t work for like, Walmart or someone similarly massive, cause they can just tank the loss by being massive.

This means that local, non corporate small businesses have to close or cut their hours or take some other measures. This basically leads to corporate slavery in the long run, because they become the only viable unskilled employers. I wouldn’t normally think this is a problem, strictly speaking, but it is an inherent, inevitable fallout from these sorts of policies— and ironically they run directly counter of the stated goals of progressives.

You can’t have a living wage when your subsidizing everything that drives the cost of living up and giving large tax breaks and bailouts to companies like GM that just pull out when they don’t see a perpetual rise in profits. Profit driven economies will essentially create the conditions that lead to communism. Lenin and Marx were right when they said capitalism final form is international socialism ie communism

The mechanism is similiar to disjoint, nomadic war bands vs organized army. The barbarian life is far more egalitarian, but they are still crushed by armies. The barbarians can't grow past certain threshold w/o hiearchy, and will never cooperate to such a degree to stay competetive.

$15 an hour is not enough to provide adequate housing in the popular high-priced urban areas I’m entitled to. I also deserve at LEAST 12 weeks of pto per year

Your theory makes sense but it doesn’t take into account that capitalists would only continue to prey on these advantages. The state has to represent the people like a nationalist socialist state, if it isn’t representing the well being of the people without the meme of “socialism for all worldwide” then who does it represent?

>Profit driven economies will essentially create the conditions that lead to communism.

1. Kill yourself
2. Read basic economics

Choose your destiny.

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Ancap is a meme. Anyone who unironically believes in that garbage should be shot. It is simply a transition ideology back towards feudalism, just like capitalism but more intense.
If we control prices, we can ensure that the minimum standard to live is delivered to a nation's citizenry, and from there we can work on giving even more to the populace. It has to be done correctly however; simply enacting prices and expecting the corporations to follow it will result in failure. A worker's government would have to show strong force and ensure that they do not disobey the policy, damage their means of production, or attempt to crush the economy in general.
The "fundamentals" of supply and demand are inherently unequal. A good example which applies to many of us is in the dating market. Right now, females control both supply and demand (just like the corporations do using horizontal and vertical integration, trusts, etc) and as a result the female has an easier time in the dating market than the male. The struggle here can be likened to that between the bourgeoisie and the proletariat.

Will the standard of living for some people be hampered by an equal and fair society? Of course, there will be people above the curve which will be brought down. However, there are way more people who are suffering at the hands of this society, and the goal of communism is to ensure that life treats everyone fairly and that nature births every human as truly equal. Marxism is a science.

Right, so the obvious solution is higher taxes on profits for public education and to encourage investment spending, both of which allow for higher wages and a higher standard of living across the populace. “Tax the rich” is a much better approach than “raise the minimum wage.” I suppose I should have clarified that I am not in favor of the AnCap angle here. My specific belief is that shit like minimum wage and rent control is counter productive to the stated goals of progressives.

You haven’t proven me wrong though. Please explain to me how international capitalism with a profit driven market that throws out cultural foundations for consumer economies doesn’t inherently destroy them. Economics is not a single equation it is affected by many variable the most basic being the ultimate aim of a system and whether it places profit before people

Robber barons? The positive adaption would be vastly improved work ethic (child labor). The detrimental effect is that labor law is essentially legislated union bargaining power. Without any collective bargaining, the average wage relationship would be far more exploitative, just as it were in the 20s.

The big players in software were and are hierarchical. It works in FOSS and startups because you have a group of people who are truly passionate about what they do, the money is a secondary aspect. That's not the case with other industries, and it's becoming less and less the case in software too.
>We advocate for a worker's government
If you create an institution with power workers will not control it, the people who understand power will control it.
>We can do this by ensuring the standard of living is higher in our countries; this is where the capitalists fail to realize their system is inherently flawed.
Capitalist countries have higher standards of living over autocracies over time. Europe can play a different game because their military spending is subsidized by the US, and they don't allow many unskilled workers in. Their model will cease to function in the coming decades as their aging population catches up with them.
>(with high taxation on the rich but lets ignore that for a sec)
Nobody paid 90% in taxes, there were tons of right offs that were taken advantage of.
>but as time went on wages increased, but the standard of living decreased thanks to inflation outpacing wages.
right, inflation caused by loose fiscal policy. Also wages didn't rise because the labor pool became increasingly saturated, and other countries industrialized so there is now more competition. You can't stop competition, the logical result of it will be that living standards will average out among industrialized countries.
>A capitalist system with a free market cannot fix this problem; the corporations infiltrated your government
Do you not realize the error in your logic? It's not a free market system if the government is large enough to have a meaningful impact on the market regardless of capture.

youtube.com/watch?v=2GklCBvS-eI

>Why do I have to pay for someones food stamps through taxes because Wal-Mart doesn't want to pay their employees a fair wage?
Because boomers.
They need to die for the good of humanity.

despite lapses in practicality and being impossible to enact in the current time, it's 100% morally right and if you aren't an anarchist at heart you're disgusting

@memeflag

>Wal-Mart
I'm not only an employer, I'm a single parent who depends on my small contracting business to feed and house myself and my daughter.
You stupid faggots who have never had to actually turn a profit always strawman this argument with mega-corps and CEOs getting million dollar bonuses to push your policies that will ultimately fuck people like me and make you even more dependent on whatever crumbs the govt and these mega corps will let you have.
General rule: if you think anything Bernie Sanders advocates makes sense, you need to think a little deeper.

Basic economics makes assumptions about the people who are tangled in its systems. You wouldn’t use somebody else’s toothbrush so why does it make any sense to use an international economic model for hundreds of unique nations with different situations
>when you realize libertarians and free market capitalists are idiots

Your country avatar is telling. Nothing like a little 1984 injected to "make" things better. Take the Federal Reserve of the US....the more they try to control, the more they fuck shut up.

I actually agree with you that certain restrictions need to be placed on the free market. Namely restrictions on what cause low wages. What minimum wage does is the equivalent of giving someone with pneumonia a cough drop. They need antibiotics. But, like it or not, communism is directly antithetical to the notion of freedom, and whether or not it strictly speaking works, it is still genuinely evil, and is the worst case scenario of democracy made flesh.

> Thomas sowell
Oh thanks Thom I didn’t know that was you. If you can’t explain it simply and summarize in a paragraph or two you don’t know what your talking about. Sorry. Not sorry

Feel free to give an example of the minimum wage going up and that happening.

Protip, it doesn't

No you dumb fuck. Printing money causes inflation. Raising the minimum wage hurts employers. Congratulations you’re a retard.

youtu.be/qbmWs6Jf5dc

I am an anti-christ
I am an anarchist
Don't know what I want but I know how to get it
I wanna destroy the passer by

Cos I, I wanna be anarchy!
No dogsbody!

Anarchy for the U.K. it's coming sometime and maybe
I give a wrong time stop a traffic line
Your future dream is a shopping scheme

Cos I, I wanna be anarchy!
In the city

How many ways to get what you want
I use the best I use the rest
I use the N.M.E
I use anarchy

Cos I, I wanna be anarchy!
The only way to be!

Is this the M.P.L.A
Or is this the U.D.A
Or is this the I.R.A
I thought it was the U.K
Or just another country
Another council tenancy

I wanna be anarchy
And I wanna be anarchy

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i mean it's you who conflate your little business with mega corp ultimately the one fucking you is not the common mans but the big corp who fuck everyone be honest too
the trickle down effect become really real and really fast when you start to touch their money...

Communism is the final evolution of capitalism though. Canada for example is communism lite. The liberal upper class the politburo rules over the proletarian class that only really ever see rises in living expenses, destruction of communities. Couple this with a multicultural society and use have the fundamental building blocks of a communist society