Late 20s American looking to emigrate here...

Old friends of mine who go way back live there, along with some family. Visited twice, and although I didn't do a whole lot I really enjoyed myself and felt a certain relief being away.

Would I enjoy working there if I were given the opportunity? Hard to say, haven't had the chance just yet. But I would like to and do everything I could to integrate and disappear into the background as much as possible.

>Study in a eu country where they let you work on a student visa and seek work permit based on that job.

I wish I could afford to go to school again. That's going to be a setback.

There's also the issue of how I'm not getting any younger. That's another thing that's weighing on me, every indication I've been getting seems to suggest that I need to go BACK to school and I don't want to spend the rest of my 20s in a school bubble again.

Well it's very easy to imigrate here for americans, come one over but prepare some background cash so that you won't get broke easily

You'll probably start out with a shit job unless you have certain skills and know dutch though

Foreign exchange student program?

>You'll probably start out with a shit job unless you have certain skills and know dutch though

Well, my major was garbage, so I guess that's another setback.

Then fuck off we're full of foreigners that don't work

But I can work!

Any first world country is only going to accept you if you can do skilled work. If you're an American who can do skilled work, you wouldn't want to emigrate. Which leaves second and third world countries as your only option.

>If you're an American who can do skilled work, you wouldn't want to emigrate.

How do you know?

Because you'd be earning a decent salary and be able to sustain a good standard of living. There's nothing any other country could offer you that America couldn't.

>There's nothing any other country could offer you that America couldn't.

Yikes. The fact that there are people who really believe this is kind of shocking.

It's true though. Or at least, the downsides to other countries would make them less desirable than America. It's not a case of "America is objectively the greatest country in the world," it's a case of "America is the most suitable country for me in the world"

bump

Why leave?

You're like the international version of an uncle Tom. Nobody likes an uncle Tom.

The dudes not wrong though America is probably the best country to live in if you're middle class. You get the best salaries and get to live in your own culture with people that understand you. European countries have lower salaries and more of our policies focus on benefitting the poor which actually hurts you if you're middle class or such. The only benefit is to experience another culture but we don't want any outlanders to be a part of that because you will just ruin it. Stay were you belong op.

America is borderline Third World. Maybe you're well-off and aren't affected by this shit, but I'm not.

So I should just continue to be fucked over and take it with a smile? Get real, man.

>Stay were you belong op.

I don't belong here any more than you belong in a mud hut.

>America is borderline Third World. Maybe you're well-off and aren't affected by this shit, but I'm not

It’s really not. What state do you live in? Bum fuck WV Appalachia?

You might like Brazil lol

>It’s really not.

Gotta get out more, man. There's more to America than your suburban neighborhood.

Please explain how you're getting fucked over instead of being vague and pretending we know what bullshit you're talking about
>inb4 "Oh you know what I mean"

Well what state do you live in? I’ve been all over the US.

I live in the South in one of the poorest areas.

ok... so why don’t you just move to a better state?

I've been around the country, too. The US has nothing to offer me. The few times that I've been out of the country I felt a sense of relief that I've never felt anywhere in the US, I knew at those times that that's what I need.

I live in the south too, it's great. You just sound like a pussy.

>The few times that I've been out of the country I felt a sense of relief that I've never felt anywhere in the US,

No shit. It’s because you’re on vacation. Ask any European and they will say the exact same thing. When they travel around their own country, it feels the same. But there is a thrill when traveling abroad.

I kind of suspect you’re just being a bitch, user. What do you do? What skills do you have?

Alright, well, thanks.

Moving away isn't going to fix your tiny heart syndrome.

People like you always say that but they don't really have any basis for it. You think that all my problems are in my head and I would be miserable anywhere, but it's not. If I could move away from all of this shit and make a decent living somewhere in place that wasn't a backwards shithole, I could finally enjoy myself a little bit.

Again, you're probably well-off and don't lack anything, but I live in the middle of nowhere and have nothing. That's probably hard for you to imagine but that's the reality of my life.

Not him but you didn’t answer my questionWhat skills and education do you have, and what do you want out of life?

Travel the world over both for pleasure and business and the US is the best place to live. Sure there are nice places, exotic places but even they have problems too and the shitholes are, well shitholes. Occasionally you get some butthurt that says they hate America but they will turn around and say they would like to come here.

I have a bachelor's degree(non-STEM). But college is a waste of time unless it's STEM or pre-med, so I live every day with the resentment of having been pressured to go to school when I had no idea what I was doing and probably didn't have the talent to pursue a program that was worth a shit.

I'd like to be able to live independently and sustain myself, and I would prefer never to have to step foot in my shitty little podunk hometown again. But again, not having a good educational background means I'll probably be stuck here forever unless I can swing a gig teaching abroad which as I understand generally doesn't require a teaching degree.

>Occasionally you get some butthurt that says they hate America but they will turn around and say they would like to come here.

I know people in Western and Northern Europe who have zero desire to ever come here. I don't blame them one bit.

>getting married

Haha, yeah, I know, right? But if I could pull it off I would.

Are you bilingual?

Yes, but not in anything spoken in a country I want to live in.

I too have friends in northern and western europe and didn't say everyone the world over wanted to come here but I am saying there are plenty that do or don't see negatives everywhere they look. On a whole, the US is the best place to be what you want to be and find like minded individuals and if you want to be something else you move to the next town or state.

>On a whole, the US is the best place to be what you want to be and find like minded individuals and if you want to be something else you move to the next town or state.

It's not the 20s anymore, man, the American Dream is dead. There's zero upward mobility.

You know how people hate it when they go to fast food in the US, and it’s hard to even place an order because the person working the counter barely speaks any English? If you move abroad, you will be THAT GUY. No real job will hire you if you’re not fluent in the native language. So you’d probably get stuck working fast food and messing up the local’s orders.

You have 49 others states to move to. Pick a state with a strong economy and high quality of life. Virginia, Utah, Florida, and Colorado are among the best.

I have a working knowledge in multiple other languages and I am willing to learn. It's doable.

I'm not bothering with moving around the country. There is nothing for me here, culturally or otherwise. I feel like I'm lower than animal in this place. You simply aren't respected as a human being in the US, especially if you're a man and then you're totally disposable.

dude stop being such a sour puss.

It’s not going to improve moving abroad. Think about it. Europeans move HERE. They do that for a reason. You’re just being a big sour puss because you live in some bum fuck state. Get out and go somewhere better. there are way better states

>Europeans move HERE

Well, yeah, Eastern Euros. For them, it actually is an upgrade, but that's not saying much.

Western euros too. Where I live there is a surprisingly large amount of French speakers

I don't understand what they would see in this place. It's not the "land of opportunity" anymore, there's nothing to be had here. It's rich for the rich and shit for everybody else.

Unless of course they're rich and decided they wanted to come here and be rich.

>it’s not the “Land of opportunity” anymore.

How can you say this? It absolutely is for those who take advantage of opportunities. You can almost do whatever you want if you choose to pursue it. I know this from first hand experience. I was lost for many years, started a route I didn’t really care for, but figured out what I want and now I’m on a totally different path (and I’m 27 y.o.). It can be done.

Also, states. usatoday.com/story/money/business/2016/12/04/americas-best-states-live/93920456/?hootPostID=10473b1d24f81fae363d38daebe532a0

>I don't understand what they would see in this place.

Also, I don’t live in a shitty state

>Also, I don’t live in a shitty state

Well, good for you.

So, you should do this too, user. Move to a better state. Why do you have such a bleak view of our country?

There are shitty things going on in other countries too. My girlfriend is French and lives in Paris. She commutes to work via the train 1 hour 15 minutes Each way every day. She always tells me how “I just saw a homeless man peeing on the wall of the station”, or how the trains always smell like shit. And that’s on a good day. Sometimes people jump onto the tracks to kill themselves and it delays the trains. Hell, right now with the worker strike it takes her over 2 hours to get home.

>Why do you have such a bleak view of our country?

Well, I think when most people of my sex born in this country aren't even allowed to have all of the genitalia they were born with and you are laughed at and treated like a mental patient if you have a problem with that, or laughed at if you are a male victim of sexual harassment/rape(I've been harassed and it was always treated as a joke), or how I'm apparently responsible for all of the problems in the world because I'm male, or how I have seen family members near and dear to me have their lives ruined because of Big Pharma, or how I could easily go into bankruptcy if my health gives out, or this and that and a million other things, why should I be happy about living here?

This country hated me the second I was born into it. I have nothing to be thankful or proud of.

You're a such a fucking romanticist. Stay where you are, we don't want you and I doubt you even fucking want us.

>Stay where you are

Nope, you and I are gonna be bunk buddies.

You can't just move someplace - they have to let you in. Almost every country in the world has immigration restrictions. A tourist visa (what they stamp on your passport) puts strict limits on how long you can stay (usually 6 months or less) and absolutely forbids overstaying or working.

A working or resident visa (rough equivalent of the American Green Card is very, very, VERY difficult to get.

See each country's immigration website for details, and then give up

>implying this doesn’t happen in other countries

What? Why did you reply to me?

This. I think it’s funny how people say immigrating to the US is too hard and should be easier. But many other countries have even more strict standards than we do

Man the fucking irony of all the "love it or leave it" folks who say that shit and then when someone actually tries they're like "NO DON'T GO!!!1"

Healthcare here is shit, cost of living in any place with decent jobs is shit, any "vacation" you get from work is shit, and people on the whole are fucking stupid or ignorant but are proud of it.

I'm with OP, I'd leave too if I could.

Thanks, man. Breath of fresh air.

I'm not giving up and I don't think you should either.

you're kidding me right? know in particular two immigrants that came here, worked their ass off from the bottom and successful. They started right away instead of pissing and moaning about how hard it was.

As someone who has traveled all over the world I can tell right away that you are talking out of your ass.

No, he’s just being a sour puss. If he doesn’t like his shitty ass state, then he should move to another state. But he’s being a drama queen by saying “oh my State is so shitty i need to immigrate to a new country”.

>the grass is greener on the otherside

You really think so?

>I'd leave too if I could
you could if you want it bad enough. no one is keeping you here so stop with the excuses

Foreign immigration laws do

then begin the process

Not him but that means about as much as "just believe in yourself and you'll be a winner". You know the kind of shit we're up against?

You can’t just “start the process”. For the Netherlands you have to be defined as a “highly skilled worker”. You must have a STEM related career with a minimum income. Also you need to have a job offer within a Dutch owned company. Plus you need to be proficient in speaking Dutch.

You can’t just pack up and move.

no it doesn't. if you want to move somewhere else there are concrete things you must do so get the list together and start checking shit off

Are you a doctor and make 6 digits a year. Does a foreign company want to hire you and do you speak their language fluently?

The US is one of the few countries who will take almost anyone.

If it means going to school and pissing away four more years of my life while going into massive debt, then fuck it. I'd rather just go die in a ditch somewhere.

then become a highly skilled worker and get a job at a Dutch company and enroll in a Dutch speaking class. If you want it then do the work for it or perhaps you just want to bitch or too lazy and want some exemption since you are so wonderful and its not necessary to contribute

I agree, its merit based. These other countries don't want some do nothing to show up and do nothing

Is that what you’re doing?

this is fucking funny. oh, I hate it here I have to work but wait, I would have to work elsewhere else too, well fuck that

Well, I mean, I'll be in my 30s with massive debt and still nothing to show for it. Not really something I want.

I didn't move to another country but went to school and worked my ass off. If it is to be its up to me

I thought you were the OP

stop being a sour puss. Really lad, it’s becoming annoying. Do you know how much easier it would be to just move to a better state?

The grass isn’t always greener on the otherside. Yes Western European countries are first world. But just because you felt great vacationing there doesn’t mean that you’ll enjoy living there. We have a much better job market here in the US. There are far more career opportunities here. For my career, I can make $200,000/yr and there are many different options for me to choose from, whereas in Europe the market is much smaller for this same job i’d have less options and less pay.

The grass isn’t always greener on the otherside.

Sorry, the guy who was agreeing with OP here. I went to shit and shower. My point was less "oh man I need to do whatever it takes to get out of here so I'm going to spend four years getting a master's so I can move," but that people say love it or leave it and it's not actually a feasible thing to leave. You can't be a normal person who is fed up with the system over here.

Even if you want to contribute over in most first world countries, you have to become the kind of top employee that probably wouldn't want to leave the US in the first place now that they had their feet under them. Double edged sword.

On a personal note I can't leave without abandoning my family, which is the "if I could," but my friend is an expatriate in Britain and she loves it. I'd gladly follow her lead if I fell in love with someone I could marry like she did.

>I'd gladly follow her lead if I fell in love with someone I could marry like she did.

There is a reason why marriage is the #1 way to immigrate. It’s because it’s the only realistic option.

My best advice for you OP would be to look into immigration on your own and don't bother telling anyone else about it, because as you can see from this thread, people tend to become extremely aggressive if you say that you don't like living in America. This has happened to me enough that I see it as the average instantaneous reaction of nearly every American that sees the shithole as "the greatest country on Earth".

That's why I brought it up earlier. Hell, I would marry one of my Euro male friends in a sham marriage just to be able to emigrate. I'm at that point.

>people tend to become extremely aggressive if you say that you don't like living in America.

No. It’s because his reasoning is shit. His reasoning is “I hate my shitty ass state” “when I vacationed in Europe I felt as if I had no worries”.

So, he should just move to a new State. regarding his no worries during vacation. All people experience this when traveling abroad. I’ve traveled a lot and felt the same shit. Europeans feel the same thing too when they travel to the USA and Canada. One of my European friends came here and said “it’s like a dream”. But because he had an awesome time doesn’t mean he wants to move here. OP is just being a drama queen

Except OP was nowhere near saying those were his only two reasons. Moving to another state isn't going to give him healthcare, reasonable leave from work, or get him away from our country's shit leadership.

Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of reasons to love this country, and I'd have no issue with anyone that likes it. But I have no problem with anyone that wants to leave either.

>Moving to another state isn't going to give him healthcare, reasonable leave from work, or get him away from our country's shit leadership.

Ok, so he’ll gain healthcare, athough you can get that from a decent employer here. (I have good health care).

Leave from work- his paid leave from work is still dictated by his employer. Although he will gain some unpaid leave by the government. So, it’s really not different than the US. Good employers give reasonable paid leave, and some even give unpaid leave too in addition.

>shit leadership

Yeah our government is pretty fucked. But is it really any better anywhere else?

To add to this regarding leave- even tho he will gain unpaid leave based off of law. That doesn’t mean he’ll be able to lose it. By comparison with the US, he’ll be making a smaller salary and paying more in taxes in Europe. So depending on his cost of living, he may not be able to afford to take unpaid leave anyways. So he’ll realistically just use his paid leave that’s dictated by his employer

You're lying to yourself if you think US healthcare is anything but a temporary privilege you only get if everything is going right. If you lose your job and get an infection two months later, you're utterly fucked. You'd better hope you're employed.

Leave from work: unless you get absolutely lucky, you're never going to match what employers give in the U.K..

Two weeks here, almost double everywhere else.

As far as leadership goes, at least you're less at risk of suddenly inciting nuclear war in the others.

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>If you lose your job and get an infection two months later, you're utterly fucked. You'd better hope you're employed.

Actually under the Affordable Care Act your healthcare carries over for 6 months from the date of your termination of employment.

>Leave from work: unless you get absolutely lucky, you're never going to match what employers give in the U.K..

Yeah I know they start off with more paid leave in the beginning. But they also start with lower pay. The thing is here, after time you can build up to more vacation time once you’ve invested more time in the company. Most jobs give you 3 weeks of paid leave a year after your 2nd or 3rd year.

>As far as leadership goes, at least you're less at risk of suddenly inciting nuclear war in the others.

Lol. Nuclear war isn’t going to happen. And even if it did why the fuck would if matter? NATO is all in it together. We’d all be dead anyways

>ACA
No, that's COBRA, which is like $300 a month. When you lose your job, that is hard to pay.

>leave & pay
I guess it depends on what you value. I would take less pay for an additional two weeks off where I can decompress from the stresses of work, even if that's just spending the holidays with family. I get three weeks now and I have to meticulously plan every day I take off at the beginning of the year. Employers here are also notoriously negative about vacation time, which is why it goes unused.

>COBRA

Ok well my mistake. The theory is you’ll be employed again within 6 months.

>I get three weeks now and I have to meticulously plan every day I take off at the beginning of the year. Employers here are also notoriously negative about vacation time, which is why it goes unused.

What career field do you work in? It just sounds like your company has shitty management. I work shift work and even when we are understaffed I’ve never had an issue getting my vacation approved. We had shitty management too, but even still my leave goes through