Is Christianity an abusive relationship? If you choose not to be with Jesus...

Essentially, Jesus is all good things and when He goes all that is good goes with Him. He is respecting your choice.

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>Lastly, the idea that you can "choose" your beliefs is absolutely retarded. Your brain is a state machine that's the amalgamation of various inputs (i.e. DNA, nutrition, education, parenting, experience etc) all of which is not completely within your control.
cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP96-00788R001700210016-5.pdf
page 11
>contrary to what everyone knows is so, it may not be the brain that produces conciousness- - but rather conciousness that creates the appearence of the brain
this implies on one side that determinism is bullshit as our thoughts and mind isnt just a reaction to outside stimula and enables free will because of it. it also implies that the conciousness is not coming from the brain itself, that its something outside the brain and heavily implies the existence of something soullike not bound to the body

I consider this world to be like a thought or dream of God. Then those vibrations all around us might actually be kind of brainwaves and the different charges around us neural impulses . i think in that concept also lies the holy trinity
Imagine this world like a dream, or thought of God. In your dream your mind/conciousness makes up the entire world. This is the holy spirit. You can then appear as an avatar of yourself in it and interact with people directly. This would be the equivalent of the son. Then there is the you outside the dream which then possibly is the Father. Now considering the occult principle of As above, so below, we can deduce that the higher realms relate to the lower ones, like our, this, world relates to our dreams.

>1In the beginning was the Word (Logos), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Now imagining that "in the beginning was the word" actually meant "thought" or "concepts" (which is one meaning of the greek logos) than it pretty much fits i believe

>If you choose not to be with Jesus, he sends you to a realm where you'll be tortured forever.
There no christian hell, its pagan concept and you already in it, retard.

Freedom of will it not predicated on the desirability of your choices but your freedom to choose transcending material circumstances.

Whether or not you think or feel that damnation is a just fate for you makes no difference to the reality.

Saturn/satan is responsible for your suffering not jupiter/jesus

well, saturn=satan is correct but i disagree a bit with Jupiter=Jesus
most symbolism around God and Jesus is around the sun

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Jupiter however is known like Zeus, throwing his lightning bolts or thor with his thunder also being lightning to some extent
Zeus, as i see it, is either what God is in the bible or Michael which would fit since Michael is the one who threw Satan (saturn) down to earth as Zeus defeated Cronus.
The way Satan falls here is
>18So He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.
So Zeus (Jupiter) defeated Cronus (Saturn)
Thor (Jupiter) locked away Loki (While fairly antagonistic I couldnt identify him as a planet)
Michael threw Satan (Saturn) down to earth with lightning.
In all occasions its Jupiter is BTFOing Saturn (or in the nordic one at least an antagonist) with lightning
In general I believe Jupiter is representative of Gods right hand man. Wether its in form of Michael or God himself appearing in the flesh like Jesus

Also Baal Haddad (Jupiter) is known to have slayn a serpent, Thor is the archenemy of Jörmungard, the worldserpent of loki that grew big enough to reach around the world biting its own tail making it a symbol for the world, but also being ouroboros which is a symbol of time that devours everything fitting back to chronus. Michael threw satan down to earth, the serpent in garden eden. Zeus killed Typhon a serpentlike monster that tried to take his throne

I have to add here that the september prophecy makes a connection between Jupiter and Jesus instead of the sun. The prophecy states a child is born and is continued to be described like Jesus is usually (will rule the world with a rod of iron).when it was virgo, the virgin, birthed Jupiter in the manner the prophecy told (moon at the feet of virgo clothed with the sun aka the sun was behind virgo and crowned by 12 stars) and Jesus is all about rejection of the flesh, of the material and embracing the spirit which gives somewhat a connection to the lightning as its the very force creating the conciousness in your brain

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>YFW you realize it's actually more merciful to murder infants and children because it guarantees that they go to heaven by default rather than allowing them to live with the potential that their eternal soul burns in hell for all eternity.

>YFW your only way to refute this argument is to suggest that children and babies can actually go to hell

Infants go to purgatory, unless they're baptized. Children may very well go to hell, depending on their culpability.

>implying murdering a baby will not just result in the baby being reborn as its supposed to experience and learn something certain here meaning you put it through the traumatic experience of birth a second time for no reason

>Implying not killing it again wouldn't be better than to allow it to potentially go to hell

>Implying it would be better to allow someone to potentially go to hell than just sending them to purgatory
>Implying Dante's Inferno is reality

it would, as otherwise it will just keep getting reincarnated in this shitty world instead of having a fair chance to reach paradise. you lock the child into the lower realm. if it later goes to hell it deserves it due to the decissions it made and isnt worth being saved from it either way. all you do is take the chance for something better away.

Murder is a grave sin. Murdering infants to send them to purgatory is not a licit practice and everybody who does it or approves of it willingly, is guilty of a mortal sin which will promptly damn them to hell when they die.

If I guaranteed all souls went to heaven simply by sacrificing my immoral soul in the process of infant murder then I would do so gladly. In fact, my sacrifice for humanity would be greater than that of Jesus as he never risked anything other than his temporary earthy body whereas I'm committing my eternal soul to an eternity of suffering.

but you dont get them to heaven that way.

You can not understand the divine. Quit your blasphemy and if you think you can outsmart God you are going to have a very ironic surprise.

Good for you infidel a real humanitarian.

You're just pulling the reincarnation concept out of your ass as nowhere in the Bible does it mention it. Also you're assuming that whatever time and place the infant is reincarnated is within a Christian society because if he was unfortunately born into a Buddhist society then he would likely go to hell.

josgreece.angelfire.com/Exposing_Xianity.htm

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>once saved, always saved

here we go again with this bullshit.

U mad your stupid beliefs are easily reduced to absurdity so easily

Again you're assuming reincarnation within a Christian society. The majority of the world isn't even Christian. Do they go to hell?? Your chances of reincarnation within Christian Society is not good

Not really, going to hell for murdering infants so that they can go to purgatory isn't really a good trade off.

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>if you do not believe in me, then at least believe in my works
God is giving you the option to way up the historical evidence of his existence and deeds. You don't necessarily need to believe that Jesus is God, but if you believe that Jesus can save you then He will.
>save me from what?
My understanding of the afterlife is that after you are dead the resultant possibilities you are faced with are manifest dependent on your mental state. If you are terrified, the universe will rip you apart. If you have faith that God will protect you, you will remain long enough in that dark place to be extracted.

*weigh up

>In this fictional and impossible scenario I concocted, I can be greater than Jesus Christ
Wew.

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reincarnation was accepted as christian tradition for about the first 500 years of the existence of christianity, who knows how much longer by israelites before that. it nowhere says reincarnation isnt a thing either.

>Also you're assuming that whatever time and place the infant is reincarnated is within a Christian society because if he was unfortunately born into a Buddhist society then he would likely go to hell
nope, you can choose jesus no matter where you are born as he is known at pretty much the entire world. additionally chances are you will recognize Jesus at his second coming either way, see him as God and thus believe in him, and as such accept his sacrifice too. its debatable wether that would be too late to do so or not though, but chances are it isnt too late

Why not? The prospect of even one out of a billion going to hell is worse than a billion in purgatory (which they can ascend from). A billion is just a finite number, but an eternity of suffering for 1 person in hell outweighs a temporary period in purgatory for a billion

What is Jesus going to "do" to the person inside? Hold him accountable for the evil things he does daily. Which, in the best scenario, means his soul being scent far away from the love and light of God for eternity.What Jesus will "do" to him if he doesn't accept reconciliation is perfectly just.

Yeah, we've got no free will.

Neither do giant death robots.

You still want to kill giant death robots.

God still wants to send you to hell.

There is no profit in salvation of others if you yourself are damned. And it looks like a mistyped, unbaptized infants go to limbo not purgatory, but either way your self-righteous baby murderer is not profitable.

I could easily murder 100 infants in my lifetime with a well placed bomb. Let's assume just one of those infants was destined for hell (certainly not an unreasonable assumption given that Christianity isn't even the world majority) but I saved it by killing it before it was able to discern good/evil. My sacrifice is a 1-1 and I would willingly trade places with someone in hell.

My sacrifice is still greater than Jesus’s

>Hurr Durr you grew up in Tibet but why didn't you accept Christ? Never mind that statistically people from non Christian countries don't end up Christian

>It's free will goy

>i believe whatever people around me believe

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>Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,
Hebrews 9:27
You are correct in a sense tho. Jesus was the reincarnation of David. He also spoke of being Elijah. The implication is that Jesus and the Holy Spirit was all of the prophets put in place on Earth. His mission was to serve the evil one Yaldaboath/Yahweh and to gain his trust long enough so that he could serve as a human sacrifice. Like all demons, Yahweh eats the souls of his sacrifices, but when Yahweh ate the soul of Jesus, Jesus took him over from the inside, like a virus. Thus, Yahweh in his destructive manifestation is no more, and Jesus became the Last Sacrifice.

So I would exclusively murder baptized infants. What's changed? Its better to go to heaven now than to potentially go to hell later.

The way I look at it, my take on life is up to me. I hate a lot of things about living, but I'm here. I'm not grateful, maybe I will be eventually, but it will be because I made something worth being grateful for happen.
I will not bend over for Yahweh or any other semetic diety. I won't be a slave for them. If they want to have Satan ream my ass for eternity, whatever I guess.

People who grew up in the middle ages didn't accept germ theory, it doesn't make it any less true.

But you literally do that. You honestly believe entire countries of people go to hell because they consciously and purposefully reject Christ whereas you, a man who likely grew up in Christianity, made the tough choice to accept Christ and free heaven?

HA! Hahaha!

You ever read Romans? Everyone has a law written on their hearts by God to obey. This leads some to faith, and some to rebellion.

Nothings changed except for the destiny of the infants your still going to hell.

>greater than that of Jesus as he never risked anything other than his temporary earthy body
Jesus lived as a man and died as a man. According to theological interpretation of scripture, he was all man and all God. His death and sacrifice was as meaningful, as yours or anyone else's might be, since we are all possessed of an immortal soul.

A few years ago I was in an accident, and I was (according to the doctor) technically dead for just under 4 minutes. Strange thing is I remember dreaming, or being in a dreamlike state, during those moments between my heart failure and resucitation. Nothing white lights, golden gates or afterlifey at all. Just felt like I was asleep and dreaming until I was forced awake.

>Trust my story about god, goy. Don't forget to tithe!
>Yes belief in my personal diety is definitely the same as a verifiable phenomenon through direct observation!

Is it not better to sacrifice oneself so that others may avoid going to hell?

People don't accept evolution, doesn't make it false

I’m a christfag here but i enjoy antichristfag arguments because it strengthens my own faith. I have to say this would be one of the most convincing arguments against christianity if i weren’t a christfag.

The problem is that i’m not even sure hell is eternal conscious torment. Think about it. What does a society to do the worst criminals? You either get life in prison or the death penalty. As much as that sucks, that’s nowhere close to continuous conscious torment for the rest of your life. Even the worst despicable people get meals, sleep, air, bare minumum. Usually much more than that. So if the saying goes “as above, so below” then how the fuck could hell be eternal torture? It makes no sense to spend 75 years in this life as a sinner but have to spend forever being punished for it, and the debt is never paid. If you ask me, something is fucked in that theology.

Truth is in principle true regardless of whether this or that human society teaches it or not.

Both sets of quads in the same thread. It's a sign. The Holy Spirit is among us.

Obviously not.

i was raised with more muslim influence than christian one, yet i landed at christ.

jesus himself confirmed he came from the same prophets as those of the old testament, thus comes from/is the same God as theirs, YHWH. unless you claim Jesus lied on that part to gain the trust, but obviously the demiurge or however you want to call him would know who he sent and who he didnt, and also if jesus would have lied it would also go into the entire theology behind the bible as God by default is truth as also confirmed by Jesus.

Yea, VERY ASTUTE OBSERVATION MY FREND

Nope, eternal fire. Read a book faggot.

God willing

Jesus never risked anything. His misgivings about crucifixion, especially to someone who is fully a god, could be boiled down to a casual annoyance especially considering he knew of his godliness. If I knew I could breathe under water, noone would find it remarkable when I remain submerged for several days even if it was unconformable to me and my body protested with feelings of drowning.

>god put you into this world against your will

Actually you don’t know that for sure. It’s entirely possible that we all choose to come here, we just don’t remember it consciously in this life. It sort of adds to the mystery of this whole human experience. Think about it. Living here would be pretty fucking dull if we knew everything about what happened before we came to this earth. I believe we choose to come here. God wouldn’t force anyone to do anything.

KEK of course you were Kraut. Still you deny the preponderance of individuals living in non christian counties are more likely to go to hell. What is the reason for this? Are they to blame for the weight of culture on their upbringing? On what they find reasonable?

I assume you haven't really asked yourself these questions

The church is abusive. The teachings of the carpenter named Jesus Christ were not.

So it's ok that souls burn in hell when you can easily put a stop to it by sacrificing yourself?

>It’s entirely possible that we all choose to come here, we just don’t remember it consciously in this life
Why do you claim this is possible?

How about not killing babies and trying to find a more efficient way to send those souls to heaven without sacrificing youself?

Can Christians ever put race before religion? How do they handle "holy niggers?" Are they free of contradictions?

Again you're just cleaning truth and demand adherence. I could point to a multitude of other religions that do the exact same thing you're attempting.

It's better than sacrificing my own soul.

Altruism qua Altruism when it is contrary to theosis with God is not a Christian doctrine.

>God wouldn’t force anyone to do anything.
kind of. remember what we did right before we were send here. we ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. we knew good already from the garden eden and from God. Now we had yet to learn of the evil. How do you learn better than by experiencing it? we couldnt experience it in eden (which has grounds to argue that we were spirits at that point and were put in the material bodies when we "fell", like Satan was crashed unto earth by Michael when he fell, just not as harsh. And now we are here to learn what evil is by experiencing it and learn what it leads to and means, and that we may choose good over bad fully knowing what evil is (can you choose one if you dont know truely the alternative).
remember when God said we shouldnt eat the fruit? because we werent ready yet. if you trust the book of adam and eve the serpent made us eat it at the very first day. imagine a one day old child in the body of a man basically. it was meant for us, just not yet. but we chose prematurely and now we are here

this is an interesting idea, but isn't in line with canons that get shilled the most. Particularly, most of the punishment is supposed to come from being seperated from god.

I think most Christians are just idiots and don't seriously consider the implications of ”eternity" being anything longer than just a "really long time"

I'm responding to your erroneous argument that disparate theological opinions somehow disprove the field entirely, not claiming truth or demanding devotion.

Yes and no. Jesus is God. Yahweh is his (illegitimate) Son. But, Jesus allowed himself to created by God, thereby becoming His Son on this Earthly plane. The two are not enemies. Jesus loves the demiurge, as much as He loves anyone. That is why he says; "Get behind me, Satan." He literally wants Satan on His side. So to with the demiurge, if there is even a distinction. God came to save him too.
In a sense, Jesus was a double agent, but He never lied. He came to serve the demiurge and He did so for thousands of years, all because He loved him. Despite this love, Jesus still shows displeasure with the actions of the demiurge. Here are two scriptural examples of this. The first is when Jesus says; "When you come into the house (the Earth) of a strong man (the Devil/Demiurge) you must bind him." The second is when David berates God for turning His own son against Him leading to the eventual death of His own son.

I've already rejected God's mandates when I decide to sacrifice my soul in order to save the soul's of infants so equivocating on some Catholic bullshit doesn't matter

its jewish and yes it is

>Still you deny the preponderance of individuals living in non christian counties are more likely to go to hell
you act like its impossible to decide outside of the social norm. of course its easier to find to christ in a christian nation, but if you are of christ you will find him no matter what. christianity will also become global at some point as its prophecized so that is then no longer an argument either.

Christians would rather infants go to Hell than admit they are slaves to a semetic deity. Really makes you think

I have made no attempt to dismiss the entire field but merely to enlighten you on the absurdity of your belief in an eternal hell

You really have no idea what eternity is like until you experience it. Or hell foe that matter. You can’t really know for sure either way. The fact that you pretend you do, discredits eveything you say. It doesn’t matter what bible verses you quote. The evidence of eternal conscious torment is not in the bible and even the sincerest christfag can’t refute this.

Muslims believe the same thing you fucking retard. WEIRD INNIT

>remember what we did right before we were send here. we ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil
I never understood this idea. If God created everything, had foresight (omniscient) to see exactly what would happen, and did nothing to fix or change any outcomes, he planned all of this. Every action was his creation. So why is he not responsible?

I'm thinking Jesus showed extraordinary self control that your example doesn't immediately seem to bear. Jesus could have done anything, saved Himself, leveled his torturers - rose up to the Heavens in power and glory - instead he put up with this life without a whole lot of excessive miracles - then took the punishment of the cross - must have been incredibly excruciating and he could have stopped it even completely prevented it.
Now let's compare your (claimed) "sacrifice". You do an evil by murdering a baby, you go to Hell, but of course the punishment comes after the crime, perhaps long after when you die - and once it's done you have no choice - thus your doubt and unknowing would make your evil murder of a baby easy - even defiant or lacking seriousness.
I'm not getting it with your scenario. I think you've failed.

K, then you understand why your self-righteous sentiments are not in anyway a convincing argument against the faith?

Truly

>9The Lord is not slow to fulfill His promise as some understand slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish but everyone to come to repentance
i do believe this includes satan. in fact i believe we are just playing out the story of Job on a global scale. God loves us humans so much he wants angels to serve us. Satan, with his huge ego doesnt want to as we are just lowly creatures and he is going to prove it. God, loving and trusting us says "go on" and Satan unleashes and plague and desaster he can unto us in an effort to make us curse the lord and show how easily we fall from him, but when satan did all he could we will still be there glorifying the lord with all our heart showing that Satan has no power over us. Satan thus changes his stance on us and will repeant himself.

however i see no reason to believe the OT God is evil the demiurge or anything of the like.

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How so?

There is a difference between "Christianity" and what "Christ" taught. No where did he ever say that people would be cast into hell.

>believe the same thing
except that jesus is God, that he died on the cross, was ressurected while they themselves added a bunch of headcannon to the scriptures. so not the same at all.

It literally says, "eternal fire" in the damned bible. What is so hard to imagine about infinity? Your soul burns for eternity. That's it. Stop justifying sin

He lived as a man. That means that he had the same fears and weaknesses of a man, which he ultimately overcame by accepting His Godly nature and trusting in the will of God. He had freewill, he could have chosen to deny his destiny and not be sacrificed. As a man, there must still have been that niggling doubt in the back of his mind, but He chose to ignore it. And yet He still shouted; "Lami Sabachtani" right before He died.

You have to understand these two natures God and man inside one person. You could be God, in fact you are. We are all part of God. There are no more sacrifices needed, Jesus was the last, but if God asked you to sell all of your belongings tomorrow and give the money to some old man on the street, would you do it? Why not? You might live a life of abject misery until you die, but so what? You are God and you will be assured eternal salvation in the afterlife. This is the same dilemma that Jesus faced and there was no need to make it so difficult, only that God needed to suffer as a man to make His sacrifice mean something.

"Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. "

Jesus already had free access to the next phase of existence and knew it with certainty. He did not sacrifice unless you consider a caterpillar spinning its cocoon an act of sacrifice.

Whereas I know with certainty I will be facing a fate as defined by God as the worst imaginable fate, and indeed the worst POSSIBLE fate, to befall an immortal soul, and I accept this fate so that others may avoid similar suffering.