Civic ”nationalism”

Thats where i'm at. Too soft for the WNS and too extreme for the civic nationalists.

There are universal truths, and those truths must be protected and upheld at all costs. Race worshippers are dirty materialists.

What does the "S" stand for in "WNS"?

Is it "White National-Socialism"?

Yup. Why accept whites who will just end up subverting your culture and destroying your values, but then reject non-whites that will push your culture and embody your values? It's silly.

nothing wrong with civic nationalism

I fail to understand how a society full of niggers and mutts can be civic.

I've gone over the arguments in my mind, but I'm still thinking it through before I respond to him, assuming he'd give me the time of day.

These threads are good as I usually hear an argument or two that I haven't considered before for racial nationalism qua racial nationalism or some kind of genetic-civic nationalist compromise.

You have cuckold fantasies.

>people don’t actually believe this horseshit right?

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Do you believe that metaphysics exists beyond our genetics? Or are you a genetic determinist?

I'm a soft genetic-determinist; I believe metaphysics exists beyond human comprehension unless you mean human understanding by metaphysics.

For example, someone with an IQ of 70 may not be a communist simply because they're too stupid to even have a conception of property. Maybe someone with an IQ of 75 could not be a supporter of free markets because he can't understand emergent order and the economic arguments which support it, etc.

stormfag general in here

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Well duh that's what civic nationalism is all about apparently.

The reality of hominid tribal dynamics would guarantee that a large portion of the racial minorities do not uphold someone's "culture and values" based simply on the fact that they're a minority- a people naturally doesn't want to be ruled over by another people, and anyone with testosterone is going to have a fundamental drive to not be subjected to the rules and practices pf another tribe, particularly if its a different human sub-species. First generation immigrants may hot mind as they made the conscious choice to move to someone else's country, but children born there will hate the unnatural feeling of being a racial minority.

Also, these terms are very nebulous, and which values you choose to define as "yours" are arbitrary and subjective- the US, for example, was founded as an all-white citizenry where 100% of non-white peoples were banned from immigrating. This was the vision of the US tha the founders had, out into place by the very first congress under George Washington. Is that not an American value? Its certainly part of our history (like owning Africans, ethnically cleansing mestizos, colonizing and occupying Asian countries, etc) that won't be erased, and that every minority will eventually become aware of.

Yes, a VERY SMALL number of non-whites would be acceptable, just as Japan manages a small numer of non-Japanese, but still remains overwhelmingly homogenous with no question about who the nation is.

But beyond a very small number, racial pluralism causes ethnic strife, fractured and corrupt governance as a proxy for ethnic competition (unless there is heavy authoritarianism), societal alienation, collapsed social trust, and reduced civic cohesion.

Genes are an expression of universal truth. Material is a language of godhood.

It is a legitimate ideology in any new world country where ethnicity cannot be justifiably tied to the nation state. For example there is no true “american” ethnicity to have as the core of ethnonationalism here. In Europe and Asia though, civic nationalism is just a gay jewish trick.

I dont care much for semitic-american larpers

>inb4 proxy nigger
Yes im american, but im in Japan rn.

It’s just a way of misleading masses and acquire power. And it usually ends in divide and conquer with further domination of one group

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Exactly, its a terrible racist ideology. Bigots in the way of progress via open borders

should you really be posting here on duty? that shitter isnt going to clean itself you know

The only reason people don't understand this is because Jewish conspiracy.
As long there's no Africans and jews there's nothing wrong with race mixing as long as it happens casually and not by massive propaganda.
Rap culture must die first and then we can seriously consider the matter.

>Why accept whites who will just end up subverting your culture and destroying your values, but then reject non-whites

Why not reject both?

American whites in particular are unable to control their women, this has been going on for over a hundred years now. Mutts are just your destiny now.

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>theres nothing wrong with mixing with amerindians

The totality of Latin American civilization, literally every single country for an entire continent and s half, indicates that you're wrong.

>your destiny

Me in particular? No. The US? Almost certainly going to become a Latin American country. I won't be living anywhere near it.

I understand why you think that way though.
But we are a country formed by conquest and mixing. Just like you.
Why can't you understand that?

I mean, we are not Africans nor jews.

t. anatolian

>la creatura in favor of civic nationalism
Mmmmh

I am not saying illegal crossing is a good thing either. Some Mexicans understand that if other countries had the same demand of immigration they would put the same policies.

It's inevitable in places like the US and France. Sweden and Germany still have a fighting chance to prevent it from happening..

The nation of Denmark, a tiny country with a population a fraction of the size of Mexico City, has had a greater scientific, philosophical, and artistic impact and contribution to mankind than the entirety of Latin America civilization, an entire continent and a half, and all the 700 million humaj beings in it.

The US was, until recently, a mix of Europeans- for most of its history almost all northern Europeans. Latin America is mixed with indios and negros. This is a very different kind of mixing.

The recent midterms should be sufficient evidence of it being bullshit for all time. Just look at the voting patterns for race.

Yeah except the part where it´s a literal oximoron
Nationalism is the exact opposite of civic
Nation is old frensh for "Birth" and the word means that you belong to a group/country from birth no matter where you are or what you do you will always be part of your Nation
like back in the day the frensh saw Lothringen as frensh because ethnic frensh people lived there
That´s Nationslism you pleb

>the ancient roots of a word decide whether a new term is an oxymoron or not

ayy

The core American nation is Europeans.

Your crime rates are higher than sub-Saharan Africa.

Legal or illegal is completely irrelevant.

core of the golem, the head are the jews

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Do your part, breed with a Kurd.

>breeding with indo-europeans

I cannot. Whites are our enemies,for now.

Thats not very civic nationalist of you. Civic nationalism gives zero regard to ancestry.

Conflict is different.

If you don't like or if you don't differentiate from legal and illegal immigration then you have been successfully jewed my friend.
I don't even feel sorry for you because I wont feel the consequences for a long time. On the other hand you will be assmad for a while.
Think again, you can do better in the future.

>the literal meaning of a word doesn´t dedcide what it means
And here I was thinking that the bottom of the barrel retards are the ones that came here from turkey

Why would conflict based on ethnicity exist in a civic nationalist country?

>the literal meaning of a word doesn´t dedcide what it means

It does not. Gospel, for example, means good news. Do you use the word gospel every time you talk about good news?

Indo-Europeans wish to take Anatolia back from the civic nationalists here. The assumption of "nationality matter" is not done by our side.

better than jewish globalism, so I'll take it. Right-wing nonwhites are pretty rare in these parts anyway

A leftist handing someone a piece of paper saying "you are a legal immigrant" does not make that immigration desirsable.

There are over 135 million non-white immigrants or descendants of immigrants in the US today; there are 22 million illegals. Government-mandated immigration has been FAR more damaging to the US than illegal immigration.

In the 1920s and 1930s, we ethnically cleansed hundreds of thousands of mestizos from the US, mostly of Mexican descent. These were not illegal immigrants- these were full, 100% legal American citizens, most of them born here. We rounded them up and deported them based purely on race; not because of their legal status, but because we didn't want them in our country.

But why? Why isn't civic nationalism working?

If your claim is "civic nationalism works as long as no human being at any point anywhere ever disagrees with it", that doesn't sound like much of an endorsement.

And you still didn't address my main issue. You are wrong and you have been jewed.
I understand that a lot Mexicans are damaging your country but those are by fault in the same vein that white liberals.

No political system ever really "works". They all fail. Humanity tried racist and eugenic societies and they failed moe than the civic nationalist ones.

We know a racist society cannot have humane conditions. Why because in a racist society,the improvement of race is important. That means letting a stronger,healthier man impregnate your wife. Oh sorry, you might not be allowed to marry because you have myopia. Race oriented politics means killing those who are weakening the race. It is a clusterfuck of cuckdom and self hate.

Until a better system is found, civic nationalism is better than the alternatives.

>In a homogenous society, other men fuck your wife

...what?

Which main issue? Legal immigration is more harmful to the US than illegal immigration, and the distinction between the two is a piece of paper handes out by a government hostile to white men, making no indication that an immigrant arbritrarily dubbed legal is any less dysgenic than an illegal one.

>racist society

Nationalism doesn't require hating others, only loving your own. Japan is the Japanese nation- they aren't killing their people and getting their men to impregnate their wives, or whatever bizzarre fantasy you're talking about.

>when even Sweden is more nationalistic than you
OH NO NO NO

Gospel has a new meaning
Nationalism doesn´t
If it does tell me what Nationalism is nowadays
>INB4 it´s a synonym for something like patriotism
It´s not a synonym and everyone knows it that´s why macaroni said Nationsliam is opposed to Patriotism

>Race is important.
>Racial health is important
>Some races are better than others
>Some people are better than others
>Some men are better than others
>Some sperms are better than others

>Therefore letting stronger men impregnate your wife is good for your race.
>Therefore you should let it happen it

Follows from the premises. Not my idea.

Different assumptions will lead to same result.

>Nation is important.
>National health is important
>Some nationals are better than others
>Some people are better than others
>Some men are better than others
>Some sperms are better than others

>Therefore letting stronger men impregnate your wife is good for your nation.
>Therefore you should let it happen it

Just listen to yourself.

Are you telling me an ethnically homogeneous nation, which was basically every society in history up until 50 years ago, is not grounded in reality?

Spineless faggots do.

I am typing you spastic
Tell me, what does Nationslism mean toady captain roach
You are teling me "it doesn´t mean what it used to mean" but you don´t tell me what the new meaning is

The cuck always turns things into a cuck trap.

In a racist euginicssociety you don't let people fuck your wife. If you aren't worthy of reproducing you are killed or simply ostracized out of relationships all together.

The entire point of euginics is to stop parasites and undesirables from existing. The point of racism is to eliminate internal racial tension so more focus can be give to external issues.

The only reason racial politics and euginics hasn't worked is because external (((forces))) destroy them before they can get a foot hold. Except for Israel of course. The kikes actually prove it can work if people allow it.

When in history has this bizzarre fantasy of yours played out?

First, nationalism isn't just about race- the Japanese are the same race as other east asians, but they still believe in having their own nation. Second, wanting a secure home for your people doesn't require that you think they're superior to everyone else- racial and cultural pluralism creates tribsl conflicts, alienation, reduced social trust and a collapse in civic cohesion; this doesn't mean someone is better than someone else, its just the reality of human societies. Your yourself prove this by referring to indo-europeans as "the other" an enemy in conflict.

Why hasn't the scenario you're describing happened in Japan?

Unfortunately, there’s a lot of cucks on Jow Forums and in the “right wing” who are Civicnats. Just look how much Trump supporters and fags on here were shilling for that mentally ill nigger Kanye West because “muh based black man in a MAGA hat”. They really worshipped Kanye like he was some Conservative Angel Who was going to convince all blacks to vote for Trump and to be allies of whites against the Jews. And as we saw in the midterms, it failed. And it turned out Kanye is a Jewish puppet who works with notorious Jewish porn directors to create interracial porn. Yet Civnat cucks still shill for him. Not to mention how the cucks on here shill for rappers and say stuff like “who cares if he’s Black? He’s based and is allowed in the ethno-state”

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You do realize that nearly every nation before the 17th century was a race based system.

Also japs aren't the same a Chinese. There is a clear phenotype difference between them. You can tell the genetic difference between japs and chinks.

Race is a subjective term, but nations were historically based on just that- nations. Thats more about ethncitiy than race.

Just read the shit you wrote here. You have a disorder.
>In a racist euginicssociety you don't let people fuck your wife. If you aren't worthy of reproducing you are killed or simply ostracized out of relationships all together.

Depends on the severity of your "disorder" against nature. Your race needs slaves and child care takers. You might end up being the lucky ones. The cucks.

>The entire point of euginics is to stop parasites and undesirables from existing.

The point of euginics is improving the gene pool. Eugenics never ends. A Strong bull with health genes that only has to impregnate ten women in a day is a parasite for us . But to them, he would be a respected member of society. A noble hero.

>The point of racism is to eliminate internal racial tension so more focus can be give to external issues.

Race realism is the assumption hat race exists and it matter. You cannot escape my "argument of the cuck" with this.

>The only reason racial politics and euginics hasn't worked is because external (((forces))) destroy them before they can get a foot hold.

Eugenics lowers human genome diversity. It is anathema to biological success. A meme of edgy thinkers in a time of pseudoscience.

>Except for Israel of course. The kikes actually prove it can work if people allow it.

Nothing in Israel works.

It already happened in Japan. Read on hikikimori. People who are less useful to their nation/race is getting eliminated from the gene pool and are overworked like slaves.

>people don’t actually believe this horseshit right?
unless you want your country torn to shreds, you have to.

>Just read the shit you wrote here. You have a disorder
Oh yeah good one just insult people that call you out for claiming stupid shit without backing it up
You still didn´t say what Nationalism means today

Semantics. I'm using race and ethnicity interchangably.

Up until the modern era areas developed as cultures and to to a tendency to exclude other cultures developed unique ethnic markers in their genetics. So while a German and Anglo might be white they are not the same people.

Racism has a long history of working just fine and euginics could also work with enough internal motivation.

Granted euginics will probably never be implemented because of muh humanity but that doesn't mean it is invalid.

The idea that race isn't real is foolish. You can see it. Niggers a niggers, whites are white etc. Not to mention the genetic difference.

For most of human history people where fairly self in closed. Only really race mixing in times of great migration or war.

Using the words interchangably isn't wise; as its far more common for nations to be based on individual ethnicities rather than race. German and Anglo are not the same people but they are the same race.

>hikikimori
>young people feeling alienated, dropping out from society, becoming NEETs

Are you insanse, or just a liar? Shut-ins are not the nation killing people in radical eugenics programs and having men fuck other men's wives. You find plenty of NEETs, probably many more, in racially pluralistic countries.

Still ethno nationalism was the norm until America and I see no reason why it cannot become the norm again, especially when the alternative for many countries is the literal death of their culture due to over saturation of foreigners.

America was only able to survive the 'melting pot' because we had not individual culture to really lose. Euros won't be so lucky.

He is just dishonest and he knows it
If you call him out he will just say that you have a mental disorder and not respond to your points
Immagine lying to yourself on an anonymous board for no fuckiung reason whatsoever
Pathetic

Right, ethno-nationalism, not racial nationalism; though that existed in some new world colonies.

It wasn't always the norm, however; monarchy and feudalism was around for a long time before nationslism. Of course, in most cases these realms were still relatively homogeneous based on the realities of tribsl roots, language, geography, and very limited mass transportation.

Did you even watch the video?

Good observation. Truth is, right now, because of internet and the availability of mate selection for women, there is a very strong sexual selection pressure on males in every nation. This is Eugenics of nature, just plain old evolution.

In race realist society we would see a similar thing. Those who are undesirable would not be allowed to bree or even inconvenience the "health" members of their race. Shut ins and slaves. Cucks who take care of other people's kids.

>In race realist society we would see a similar thing.Those who are undesirable would not be allowed to bree or even inconvenience the "health" members of their race. Shut ins and slaves. Cucks who take care of other people's kids.
Why the fuck would that happen? You just pulled that out of your ass didn´t you?

Monarchies were very nationalist. They had a strong national identity, a desire to order their society, and a desire to maintain independence from foreign powers.

Racial nationalism is only needed if ethno states determine that their position is to weak to stand against foreign enemies individually. I am sure that euros would rather share a country with their fellow races even if different ethnicities than be conquered by the brown horde.

Racial nationalism isn't necessary if the ethno states can stand alone.

Because the society wishes to be better and purer. That means those who are not optimal or perfect should not breed. That also means they should not be allowed to get near the perfect ones, because they will feel compassion for them, and compassion is considered evil in racist societies.

That wrong and retarded
The US was race realist and only allowed "White people of good character" in as immigrants for thew longest time of it´s history
They didn´t mass sterilize people, they didn´t do wierd tyranical stuff, stop projecting you fanfic on white people

a racist state might not always do everything their values and assumptions require. Real world politics get involved when making policies bu they are not included in a theoretical discussion on political systems.

It´s the other way around, white countries are the only countries that low crime rates and have personal and social liberty
It´s one of the reasons we want to get rid of you people, you drag us down into currupt tyranny like in brazil
Stop projectig your non-white mindset on white people

White countries are not racist right now. Nor do they make policies based on race. You are the one dragging us all down with these fallacious arguments and baseless assumptions. Go away.

Why do you keep insisting that nationalism is based on "race realism"? Nationalism is almost always ethnic, not racial. Where it is racial, like the US was, your scenario never happened.

You keep demanding that your bizzarre fantasy scenario HAS to happen, and you keep failing to provide examples of it.

>this is eugenics

No, what is happening now in western societies is not eugenic. Evolution is not the same as eugenics.

I asked you for an example of the ethnically homogenous Japanese nation mass-killing their own people in a radical eugenics program and having men fuck other men's wives- you provided a word describing NEETs who don't like to go outside. You're either a liar, delusional, or both.

The US had race-based immigration and naturalization policies for 200 years. Why did your mass-slaughter cuckold fantasy not occur?

Nationalism isn't a theoretical system, it has existed for billions of people over the course of centuries.

When did your scenario take place?