Who’s right on Marriage — Trads or MGTOWs?

>tattoo’s are import to me
Then you’re a silly tit.

Go for the traditional view on marriage.
If that fails, don't fall for the roastie meme and go full MGTOW.

Both but trads failed epicly. We need a violent revolution to take women´s (voting) rights away just because the trad losers let it come so far.

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Have girlfriends. Find the right opportunity and breed. Be happy. Tell the truth. Hate the media. Don’t have someone torn between all the opinions on TV (TV is one opinion - it’s a trick) and your opinion. Don’t humiliate yourself with a slut. Don’t be a porn cuck thinking about other people having sex all the time.
Leave the sloots or have fun with them. They are for me. I don’t want to get married, I’m too handsome. I want sloots. Sloots want me. Everyone lives happily ever after.
Remember. Hate TV. It’s all a trick.
This is good though. Better with speakers
m.youtube.com/watch?v=3WxaV33PNk8

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Depends on who you marry. If you marry the right person it’s pretty great. If you don’t they might just ruin your life.

Trads are right but unfortunately so few people, women especially,genuinely are trad that it's not surprising many men are turning mgtow. If more women were trade, mgtow would have no reason to exist.

Both. Marriage can be either the best thing in life or ruin your life.

Everybody thinks they will be happy at the beginning.

Think of this argument along a timeline.

MGTOW and Tradcon go HAND IN HAND.

MGTOW is a "market correction" to show women that their perceived value is much lower than they think. Within a couple of generations, TradCons will take back over and women will become submissive.

There is no need for an endless argument between these two camps.

We are already seeing this to an extent with the Zoomers. Cynical Gen X has warned them a lot about the fate of degeneracy if they don't choose family.

But on the different side of the coin, I am absolutely against supporting Gen X Roastie Whores as a Beta Provider. I will let them Die. Do nothing for them. Do not support them. Do not help them. Do not cuck. Let them be made example of for the Zoomer women to see their fate without family

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>I don’t think anything is particularly wrong with women.

You don't have to believe there is something "wrong" with women. You have to understand "female nature" and how women are basically demons. They are hard wired to MANIPULATE.

In fact, that is what is often considered "female intelligence". Women are not particularly good at creating anything except more men. What they are good at is manipulating men to do their bidding. They are also adept at following instruction from the Female Hive Mind. Example: They can never figure out how to cook on-the-fly but they can follow a recipe.

As such, any successful civilization that starts out, knows instinctively to limit women's rights....and thereby limiting the manipulation from those freedoms.

What we have right now in the West is (((them))) working over the Female Hive Mind through social media to bring in Marxist ideals such as open borders; gun bans; abandonment of religion and world government. (((They))) work on the female hive mind which in turn works to manipulate thirsty Beta Cucks.

Which explains why girls have better marks than boys at school, they learn better but they can't create anything

I'm a man of freedom. So I will answer mgtow.

They're both idiots. Third wave feminists are right.

The shortage of trad women compared to trad men is a result of the different behavioural standards. Most women don't want borderline serfdom to begin with. Most of the women who DO want borderline serfdom want a worthy husband to serve. If you're a trad woman, not only are you outnumbered by trad men but you also aren't LIMITED to trad men. YOUR chastity is valued in trad culture - your HUSBAND is expected to have been a little bit of a chad in his youth.

>Within a couple of generations, TradCons will take back over and women will become submissive
They will, but not for the reasons that you think.

Exactly. Women can get high marks on a math test from repetitive study but they completely lack the intuition to say....measure boards to build a wall in their house. Anything that causes a woman to "take the first step" is a complete failure on her part. She will always wait for a man to show her how.

Look at all the "Stronk Whamyn" movies to come out. Simply reboots of movies that had successful male casts.

>So mysterious.

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MGTOW is a defence mechanism for men that wouldn't be able to procreate before civilization. Trads are just following man made rules.

Top few men should get top lots of women. Rest should be sterilized. And couples should be chosen based on some scientific benchmarks.

>they learn better
if you think so you are absolutely retarded

The correction will come not because of people being convinced to change their ways, but because of something called "the second demographic transition." In 21st century 1st world countries, women choose their own fertility rate. This means that the women who choose to reproduce will define what future generations look like. This will enable high-fertility, culturally insular, endogamous groups to overtake society. Ergo, a take over by the more extreme of the "trad-cons."

Trads are supporting the rotten status quo ignoring external factors. MGTOWs are making a logical choice which is good for the individual but bad for society.

For examples of this, look at the Amish and the Haredi Jews, they are the largest such groups in America (except maybe quiverfull protestants? Not sure).

that wouldnt work m8, all the sterilized men would jsut stop working

Gay men. We are less likely to get divorced than straight couples.

Marriage is great and essential, sluts are not, and shouldn't be wed. Kindda a mixture of both desu,

>MGTOW is a defence mechanism for men that wouldn't be able to procreate before civilization. Trads are just following man made rules.

This is called "Out Grouping Propaganda"

It's a shaming tactic. The post hints that "you are part of the out-group." You are not the "in-group" or the "correct group".

It's very subtle propaganda instead of the tried and true "Incel, Cuck, Beta" barbs.

Notice how the propaganda "blames" you, the reader into thinking this is all your fault. It's not the laws; not the State; not the government; not the miserable state of broken women.

No user, this is all your fault. Why are you such a loser?

If we had a society that actually supported men, they would have families. The ENTIRE POINT of society is to promise Beta men quality women so they can have families and help built the society. Otherwise women would fuck the top 20% of men as stated. That sounds good on paper but if the other 80% of Beta men were sterilized......then who the fuck would support society? Who would bake the bread? Who would make the paper? Who would fix your car? Twenty percent of Chads are going to do Jack Shit to support a society. And we already know women are going to do FUCK ALL.

>so few people, women especially
There are more good women than good men

But all women are sluts in this day and age

>There are more good women than good men

LMAO. Sure. Roastie.

wrong
>The CDC also reports that virgins make up 12.3 percent of females and 14.3 percent of males aged 20 to 24.
theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/03/on-late-in-life-virginity-loss/284412/

Nah that's an exaggeration maybe not even the majority, but fucklots, way too many for society to thrive, besides it's easier for women to step out of line when most men are weak s oibois

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Trads are a good example of what Marx called "commodity fetishism". They believe that the social relations created under an agricultural, tribal society, devised to ensure alliances between clans and provide incentive for the productivity of beta males are still necessary in a changing society, increasingly post-agrarian and post-industrial and where the hard labour of beta males is unnecessary and the beta males themselves disposable.

Frankly, you would do more for the white race, if this is what you care about, researching artificial wombs and genetic engineering of babies.

MGTOWs have their problems, for all their talk about "going their own way" they are obssessed with women and marriage, almost as much as Chads. But at least they are not letting this obssession destroy their lives because of some romantic fantasy.

Its true
Any good man that wants a wife can get one easily

found the roastie

>Trads are right about it because you have to marry
shut up retard

MGTOWs are, even if you disagree with their philosophy. You have to be stupid to think what passes for marriage today is the same institution that served as the foundation of Western Civilization for millennia.

>Which explains why girls have better marks than boys at school
No, that's because schools are structured around how girls learn at the expense of boys since the gynocracy demands it. Segregate the sexes and you will see the male schools severely outperform the female schools. You won't see this for the obvious reason that this destroys the lie that the sexes are equal.

>Any good man that wants a wife can get one easily
Yea and then she divorces him and takes half his shit because its in her biological interest to procreate with the fittest males

>It's a shaming tactic.
There is also some truth to it though... However, I would agree that in a time of arranged marriages, more men would obviously be able to reproduce. So it depends on your perspective: which is the normal state of human society, enforced monogamy or sexual anarchy?

>Yea and then she divorces him
I have never seen a good husband get a divorce

>Have girlfriends

Sure thing bro.
I will just put on my girlfriend jacket, jump into girlfriend land and pick out my girlfriend.

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>I have never seen a good husband get a divorce
the husbands arnt the problem roastie divorcesource.com/blog/why-women-file-80-percent-of-divorces/

I suppose there is truth to your assertion as women will always be the gatekeepers of reproduction. Still, there will be no reproduction without the support of men.

Men build society to protect women. It takes 9 months to shit out a kid....at which time, the human female is extremely vulnerable to attacks from outsiders. As such, men will always form society to protect their women.

There is a Welfare State angle as well that I wish you to comment on. Low quality women have children today which are supported by the Welfare State. Who supports the Welfare State? It is Beta Men.

As such, MGTOW men are not only walking away from "direct" relationships with women. They are also walking away from The State. In this way they are paying minimal taxes and usury into the system.....the system that steals their money and gives it to Single Mother Cancer to produce more low quality citizens.

My point being.....that men will also "force a Tradcon revolution" by not participating in this rigged system.

We are saying much of the same thing but you hinting that women control everything whereas I'm hinting it's men.

Yes they are
Women dont divorce good men
are you saying people should have a least 2 partners a year?

> it's easier for women to step out of line when most men are weak s oibois
Hell yea it is because of men, women are like kids. Letting the emancipation of women happen was a grave mistake
youtube.com/watch?v=pBz0BTb83H8

some women are redpilled but they are outcasts
no good women ever lived in harmony with society or groups

>Frankly, you would do more for the white race, if this is what you care about, researching artificial wombs and genetic engineering of babies.
Real women are a loose end anyway.

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>Women dont divorce good men
Wow thats a nice no true scots man you just pulled out there it must have taken the tiny logic portion of your brain all of its energy to muster

No. Literally all a woman has to be to meet the criteria of "good wife material" for most men is not be a slut and not be fat. And most women nowadays can't even manage that.

For a man to meet the criteria of "good husband material" for most women he's gotta be six foot tall, assertive, dominant, confident, have a good job with a big salary, have an active social life, and keep himself in shape, which for a lot of men, even assuming they haven't been screwed genetically, is virtually impossible to do as there's simply not enough hours in a day for them to work, actively socialize, work out a lot and improve in other area.

The truth is there's a tonne of perfectly good men that spoiled western women don't consider good anymore.

Do you have any examples of it happening because I have never seen it

Just date 18 year olds till your 45 and wanna have some kids. Then if she causes you problems just replace her with another one. Women are the ones with a biological clock to worry about.

Of a women divorcing a man ? i have plenty

Most men dont want a wife though
They want a slut

No a good husband

"traditionalism" is a series of lies that serve women under certain conditions, but most of all it's a state of absolute mind-cuckery and spookdom.

Trads themselves are ALWAYS self-loathing, they are ALWAYS delusional, and they have ALWAYS experienced fear boners and penis-tingles in response to free, masculine men who don't feel the need to be submissive towards women and the state.

Thats bullshit. The only people who believe that are trash women that no men want for anything more than a shag if he's horny enough. That's their rationalization for why men don't want them. It's the female equivalent of beta's who say women only want bad boys. It's not bad boys they want, it's alphas.

>which is the normal state of human society, enforced monogamy or sexual anarchy?

Society to me is a pinwheel that goes around 360 degrees and has 4 distinct stages.

>Patriarchy
>Egalitarianism
>Matriarchy
>Collapse

The West is now in collapse stage. I don't lament this though. I see it as completely NATURAL. This is to say "Empires naturally rise and fall". So to speak to your thought experiment. I think the "natural state" of Stage One society (patriarchy) is arranged marriages; strict monogamy. But the very advancement (technology; healthcare; arts; etc) is what always propels humanity into a egalitarianism shift. This creates sexual anarchy; women's rights etc and plants the seeds for The Collapse. The more information; knowledge; arts and exploration will ALWAYS lead to giving women more rights.

It's is absolutely natural. Just like a tree growing from the forest floor to tower for a hundred years....and then fall down to rot back into the earth.

>Thats bullshit.
You actually think most men are waiting until marriage to have sex?

Men would have control if they wanted to, but the majority of men don't show any signs of going along with your anarchist plan. Also, men don't have the option of not supporting the state (not paying taxes, etc). You will simply be sent to jail. Also, I find the idea of paying minimal taxes a little funny; the powers that be will do whatever it takes to keep the system running, and will extract whatever taxes they need to from you.

Define good husband.

trad MIGTOWS

Retard, you want to fix the problem. The solution is really fucking simple. TAKE WOMENS RIGHTS AWAY. Then you can get you perfect trad white waifu and make all the little white babies you want, but if you fuckers aren’t willing to do that, then either get used to praying to Mecca if you’re in Europe or eating Mexican food if you in the U.S.

MGTOW are ironically the only group, that truely understands women.
They study them obsessively.

bad boys are "alphas" in their head

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human society doesnt have a normal state, in our hunter gatherer past we probably had a norm, although im sure different races didnt behave the same way.

As soon as civilization began it all went up in the air, there is no normal anymore.

It's funny because it's true.

reads the bible daily
his family is his #1 priority
doesn't drink alcohol
doesn't consume porn
asserts leadership
goes to church every week

beyond trad and mgtow... the fembot

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That still leaves a lot of wiggle room, kek

how would you define good husband

>"traditionalism" is a series of lies

You are right in a way with this bait. Early society Tradcons will of course have the temptation of degeneracy. This is always a common trope of major religions.

Society itself is a manifestation of "foresight". The people of the society have most often come off the tails of war; famine; disease; death and destruction. As such, they know the "price to be paid" for maintaining a society which will give them a better life. The price to be paid is raising strong families which creates a strong nation. Of course fathers will lust after other women. But they are thinking the Long Game by being TradCon. They are thinking about a Legacy, not a puddle of cum on some whores chest.

right, women don't divorce providers, they are cucked until it becomes too boring and they need extra money

They'll take too long to be invented before my post here
happens.

See my post

right, but that's just an extension of trads being right
trads believe in TRAD marriage, not kike marriage

Anyone can get married and call the cunt a wife, not every married woman is a wife, don’t get that confused

>no good women ever lived in harmony with society or groups

I'd say this is true. Perhaps this is what feeds the enteral myth of the female unicorn. The unattainable NAWALT who seems to be lurking in the shadows and giving cynical MGTOWs a hint of hope from time to time.

That even varg has been able to keep a wife should show all these mgtow retards how easy it is

I never saw a good loyal wife with plenty of social interaction, the female groups just like the male ones levels them down

>everyone that has premarital sex is a slut
>any woman with premarital sex will 100% fail as a wife
Really don’t know what kind of retard to categorize you under. I wanted a wife, I got one, if I wanted a slut, I wouldn’t have married because half my shit would’ve disappeared years ago

Lol, the modern churches are as gynocentric as every other institution in the west. You’ll never hear priests talk about how the Bible explicitly say wife should obey and be submissive to their husbands, you christicucks aren’t selling trad-cuckservatism to delusional betas who want to be reassured that their “born again” Christian wives won’t hop back on the carousel. Do you know what the Bible says about people misuse the word of God?

MGTOW here.
MGTOW is just a set of facts about male/female nature and how this effects society (hypergamy/gynocentrism/fucked up family law/reproduction/what is it to be a male): its a red pill.

based on this information every single man chooses his own path whatever that path may be: whatever path that may be as long as its an informed decision.

You can decide to get married and still be MGTOW as long as you are redpilled and aware of the risks but you feel you are willing to take it (being a married MGTOW is the absolute edge of MGTOW though).

For me MGTOW has taught me to respect my fellow males and not fall for my domance instinct and not worshipping women like a good little boy (gynocentrism). Take this advice to heart because most MGTOW dont give a fuck about spreading MGTOW knowledge because they dont care about strangers on the internet.

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What are you talking about? He's famous, masculine, has an income, and is a committed family man. I don't see where the "even Varg" is coming from.

Never said they cant change but all premarital sex is degeneracy

the truth is in the middle

MGTOWs are huge fucking losers, trads are just everyday losers.

>how the Bible explicitly say wife should obey and be submissive to their husbands,
The pastor at my fairly mainstream evangelical church did

Linda carter wins because of her curves

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What kind of loser are you, memefag?

Trads typically aren't trad but anything is less retarded than suicide.

THE FIRE RISES!

6 months ago when I started posting artificial womb threads nobody ever posted about it. Now my own MGTOW folder images are being recirculated.
feels good man!

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