If for some reason a girl decides to accuse a guy of something like rape or just sexual harassment, and it's completely false and the guy did nothing wrong, let's say he just asked her out on a date, how are false accusations handled in court? do they really just believe it with no evidence?
I want some stories. Do you know anyone who has been falsely accused? Maybe, rightfully accused?
depends where are you from
southeast USA
it varies widely. Sometimes the police won't take it seriously, other times the government will do everything they can to completely fuck you over. It depends on how much pressure they face from feminists to "listen and believe"
The worst part is even if the courts throw it out you can still be fucked. Men have been literally murdered after being falsely accused of rape.
I don’t know how the courts handle this, but I can imagine no evidence = no case.
I had a false harassment complaint against me in college because i dumped a chick i was dating for being absolutely batshit crazy, and because she clearly was crazy and there was no evidence, it was tossed out.
HUGE variation on a lot of different factors, as well as who's judging it. If it's a criminal matter (i.e., sexual assault/rape), it would take an awfully convincing story (and an awfully unconvincing defendant) to overcome the "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard of proof. If there are corroborating witnesses, or physical evidence, or indications based on the initial statements tending to show that the accused changed his story a lot, etc... it could be tough to prove it didn't happen.
Sexual harassment is most often a workplace thing. Asking a girl in the workplace out on a date could constitute sexual harassment. This is why you shouldn't fucking hunt for gfs in the workplace. Evidence is less important here, and it would be the statements that matter, as well as whether one side was particularly unconvincing or appeared to be evasive or lying.
Now, when shit happens in the context of college, and there's some sort of Title IX adjudication... pretty much everything we know about due process goes out the window. But that is supposedly changing and will hopefully continue to change.
sexual crime is handled like any other crime.
>it would take an awfully convincing story (and an awfully unconvincing defendant) to overcome the "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard of proof.
that's for actually getting a conviction. You can still be arrested and prosecuted and dragged through the mud with jack shit against you.
A lot of times it's not. Because when it does get handled like any other crime, feminists cry about "misogyny" and "rape culture" so prosecutors are under heavy pressure to take cases that they wouldn't have taken for any other crime.
>that's for actually getting a conviction. You can still be arrested and prosecuted and dragged through the mud with jack shit against you.
Well, I mean, the same is true with a civil suit. You don't need to meet any particular standard, you just need to make the accusation and sue the company.
Fuck, you might not even find out until long after the company settles the accusation. There was a congressional candidate in the midwest who had to back out of her election (yes her!) because a former employer had been sued for sexual harassment that she had allegedly committed.
This #metoo and rape culture shit is out of control. For example: my cousin accused my other cousins boyfriend of sexually assaulting her...six years prior to accusation also around the time when they were fighting for custody of their kid and going through a nasty breakup. My entire family wanted to find this guy in the parking lot and beat him to death. No evidence, no chance to defend himself, nothing. They got him fired from his job and generally made his life as hard as possible. The case was, of course, dropped since nobody from my family had any evidence.
This guilty until proven innocent shit is absolutely unacceptable.
public interest is a factor in every crime case
you should differentiate between behavioural rules of a company or institution and actual reported crime to the police
God I'm so fucking happy I got out of my last relationship without anything to tie us together. That shit scares me to death.
All of this being said, and I truly do appreciate your input, you sound very wise and having some experience with the issue, but I do have one question in particular.
If the guy does nothing wrong, says NOTHING offensive, and gets hit with an accusation, let's say he does get dragged through the mud with jack shit against him, will there be an investigation? I'm assuming both parties get questioned, because in this case there's no evidence, and the people doing the questioning are smart enough to tell who's lying?
I'm asking dumb questions. But you can't blame me for being curious. I really shouldn't have to ask these questions. I think it's pretty convoluted when it comes to the justice system.
Anyway, thanks
>If the guy does nothing wrong, says NOTHING offensive, and gets hit with an accusation, let's say he does get dragged through the mud with jack shit against him, will there be an investigation? I'm assuming both parties get questioned, because in this case there's no evidence, and the people doing the questioning are smart enough to tell who's lying?
You're asking whether there'd be an investigation, after it's proved that the guy did nothing wrong, about whether the accuser should face some penalty?
This is going to apply to a very small minority of cases, and then I'm assuming you're referring to criminal accusations (i.e., sexual assault or rape) and not something like workplace sexual harassment. The problem is that in the vast majority of these cases, there's just no evidence. If you could prove, for instance, you never met the girl before, or provide an alibi for all possible dates when it could have taken place (though this didn't save Cosby from a conviction when his accuser's story changed), or could get the accuser flat out admitting to making it up... then there might be a prosecution of the supposed victim.
This DOES happen. It doesn't happen much because the false accuser has to be proved beyond a reasonable doubt to have made an accusation she knew to be false.
public interest is political. If the local politics lean feminist, they'll fuck the guy over.
Remember Duke Lacrosse? Zero evidence, the prosecutor still pressed charges because he didn't want to look like he was supporting rape culture.
Are you talking about a company investigating sex harassment or the police investigating rape?
There will be an investigation either way.
>and the people doing the questioning are smart enough to tell who's lying?
sometimes yes sometimes no. Again, it depends on what the politics are. A company or the government might feel pressure to not appear misogynistic and want to come down tough in the MeToo era. Hell look at MeToo, several guys have lost jobs just because of an accusation. OTOH some companies are more rational and won't just throw you under the bus because of a baseless accusation.
Are you worried about this personally? Have you been accused?
Heard from two different mutual friends that my ex told them that I raped her. We had a bad break up so I know she is saying that to justify in her mind that she didnt do anything wrong. She put all the blame on me, but what ever. The shitty part is that I cant even talk to her about it because she is bat shit crazy and it would lead to a cluster fuck. I have just been staying the fuck away from her and hope that it never comes up. Still scares the fuck out of me.
False accusations are more common then people make it out to be, but so are false prosecutions. Pretty much every time they're just trying to stir shit up or get back at you. The odds of being prosecuted, let alone convicted of a false claim are about as high as that happening for any other crime. Having said that, I'm referring just to the legal system. Most employers and schools have their own separate system and social media is a thing.
happened to a friend in college. Chick was claiming he tried to rape her and he didn't even know about it. People talk about false accusations to police but even just spreading rumors can fuck a guy up.
>Are you talking about a company investigating sex harassment or the police investigating rape?
I guess I would say, sexual harassment. Like for example if a guy asks a girl out on a date, and she goes batshit and claims to police he said he was going to rape her among other nasty things, even though he said nothing of the sort.
>Are you worried about this personally? Have you been accused?
I haven't been accused nor am I worried about it. But I want to know how deep this goes. I'm mainly concerned that it's power that can be abused.
Especially because I've witnessed firsthand how dumb women can get when they don't get their way in relationships, and I imagine that the false accusation is a nifty little strategy in the modern woman's toolbox of revenge
I see, I see. So it really is that bad. Ah well. It's news to me. I don't know anyone or anything in regards to this in my area. Thanks for your input.
>claims to police he said he was going to rape her among other nasty things
Even if you actually did this they're not going to do anything about it, at worst you'll get an order of protection.
>and I imagine that the false accusation is a nifty little strategy in the modern woman's toolbox of revenge
it is. There was a post in the Ask The Opposite Gender thread about dating a feminist, this is a perfect example of why not to do that. If a woman says "I'm a feminist" (ie, "I think falsely accusing men of rape is totally cool"), stay the fuck away from her.
>men falsely accused of rape never get fucked over by the police
kek, what non-western country do you live in because most of Europe and America have been taken over by feminism.
>I guess I would say, sexual harassment. Like for example if a guy asks a girl out on a date, and she goes batshit and claims to police he said he was going to rape her among other nasty things, even though he said nothing of the sort.
The fuck dude, you didn't even answer the question.
Rape, sexual assault, sexual molestation are the following: The criminal touching, with or without penetration, of another for the purpose of sexual gratification. Attempted rape, etc. is also a thing.
Sexual harassment: Conduct undertaken because of the victim's gender, that is severe or pervasive, and unwelcome. Typically this takes the form of unwanted touching, lewd comments, etc. Generally a one-time incident isn't enough, unless it's particularly severe. Sexual harassment is not criminal, is not investigated by the police, and is not the subject of prosecution. It is up to the victim to sue the company and (typically) her harasser.
So are you afraid of a false sexual assault accusation, or are you afraid of a false sexual harassment accusation? These are completely different things.
I live in the States. I'll admit I don't know how it elsewhere, but here the police are either too busy or don't care enough to go after someone after the fact for some fucking words, especially when every person in the country is a loon with anger problems. You sound like the Jow Forums type to be honest, and if you are, you have no experience in the subject and shouldn't be talking.
>These are completely different things
tbf the #MeToo crowd thinks they're the same. There's a story now about at the World Cup a reporter had a guy grab her and kiss her on the cheek. IMO that's sexual harassment, but feminists are saying it's basically rape.
This isn't true. I used to know a case off the top of my head of a black man who was sentenced to death for attempted rape of a white woman who he never even approached.
When I was 15 I was falsely accused of rape by a bitch because I bragged about fucking her after breaking it off, and she’d built up a reputation as an innocent good girl. I got tossed in jail but was able to go free after she started contradicting herself multiple times before confessing. My life was fucked. People treated me and my family like criminals. I had guys chasing me around and threatening to beat me up/kill me. Folks claimed my dad had connections so I walked because of that. All the girls were afraid of me and made up bullshit about me trying to go after them. We ended up moving. I won’t even wanna ever tell my fiancée about it because I know it would probably sit in the back of her head that user might go crazy one day and rape her or someone.
Pic-related was in the States. He spent 5 years in prison when her never even touched the girl let alone raped her. He was going to be an NFL player until that.
But yeah, feminists told you that only bitter r9k incels think that false rape accusations ever hurt anybody so that must be true.
Grow the fuck up user.
That's a completely different issue and you know it. You can be ruined in the court of public opinion for doing anything, even something you're legally entitled to do, even something you're legally obligated to do. We're talking about what the law does.
and another one.
Seriously user you need to wake the fuck up. IDK who told you that false accusations never amount to anything but they were wrong. Tons of men get falsely convicted, let alone falsely prosecuted.
Please post it then because to my knowledge no states give death penalties for attempted rapes.
Thanks for confirming what I thought. It's always the exact same pictures, the exact same people. I'll happily post my collection of people convicted of murder who had nothing to do with it since apparently rape is the only crime to ever result in false prosecutions. Also for the latter one, the whole dreaming thing doesn't even scratch the surface of what went wrong at that trial.
>Please post it then because to my knowledge no states give death penalties for attempted rapes.
It was over 70 years ago and I don't remember the citation. Rape itself isn't a capital crime today. My point is that you can absolutely be prosecuted for an attempted rape or attempted sexual assault that doesn't actually result in the victim being raped or assaulted.
see and and pic-related
stop pretending that innocent men aren't fucked over by false accusations. Just because not all of them are doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
>what the law does
The law regularly fucks innocent males over because of feminism.
>t. butthurt feminist who's mad that her movement is collapsing
cry more misandrist
>70 years ago
You can't seriously tell me your evidence that this happens today is a case from jim crow times involving a black man and a white woman? And like I said, I never said false convictions and prosecutions can't happen, I just said they're only as likely as it is with other crimes, and that there's no way in this day and age you're going to get a charge because someone said you THREATENED to rape them.
Are you seriously trying to say that taking child rape seriously is a fault of feminism? That feminism is even responsible for something like that? I understand the (valid) frustration that comes when someone turns regret or cheating into rape, but seriously? Even with that aside, I along with other people ITT have been saying that the public scene IS an issue, the only thing I'm disagreeing with you here is that for the most part you won't have extended legal issues.
Are you talking about Emmitt Till? Black male lynched because a white woman said he raped her.
The case that feminists pretend was solely about race and that gender had nothing to do with it while Jow Forumstards just forget it ever happened.
OP if you're still in this thread, hopefully this should show you that while it's a potential issue, the effects are overstated.
Note how instead of using logic and reasoning they use fear-mongering and assumptions. Read my posts ITT. Do I really sound like a rabid feminist to you? The Jow Forums types try to lure people into their trap through shit like this, don't fall for it.
>You can't seriously tell me your evidence that this happens today is a case from jim crow times involving a black man and a white woman? And like I said, I never said false convictions and prosecutions can't happen, I just said they're only as likely as it is with other crimes, and that there's no way in this day and age you're going to get a charge because someone said you THREATENED to rape them.
You have no clue what you're talking about bro. I'm done with your ass.
Sigh, no. It was an adult black male. Odds are his death sentence was commuted to life. There are records of a LOT of blacks sentenced to death under the black codes for "rape" or "attempted rape" of white women.
OP if you're still in this thread, hopefully this should show you that man-hating feminists are full of shit and have no argument so they resort to shaming tactics.
>are you seriously trying to say that convicting males without evidence is a fault of a movement which says we should convict males without evidence?
yes
>That a movement that says all men accused of rape are guilty is even responsible for something like that?
yes
>you won't have extended legal issues
oh sorry, I thought that spending 40 fucking years in prison was a legal issue.
note how instead of responding to anything I said you just continue with your "MUH R9K" insults because your feminist training teaches you that pic-related never happens
>There are records of a LOT of blacks sentenced to death under
black MALES*
ftfy, even though feminists will never admit it this never happened to black women.
>>t. butthurt feminist who's mad that her movement is collapsing
>cry more misandrist
How am I supposed to respond to this? No U?
>are you seriously trying to say that convicting males without evidence is a fault of a movement which says we should convict males without evidence?
When a child says "Hey, I've been raped" and there's potential signs of it, that is absolutely not no evidence, I've seen plenty of people get put away for murder for much less.
>>That a movement that says all men accused of rape are guilty is even responsible for something like that?
When it comes to child welfare everyone is automatically assumed guilty. You think just because you're a stronk single mother or whatever the fuck you won't get investigated if people start saying shit?
>oh sorry, I thought that spending 40 fucking years in prison was a legal issue
This doesn't happen to 99.991% of the population accused, which was my point like I've said repeatedly.
>I've seen plenty of people get put away for murder for much less.
that's the point of this thread. Being falsely accused of rape is worse than being falsely accused of murder
>which was my point that I made up because I believed the misandrists who told me it's true like I've said repeatedly.
>You think just because you're a stronk single mother or whatever the fuck you won't get investigated if people start saying shit?
you unironically need to start actually paying attention to MRAs because yeah stronk women not only get away with that shit they routinely get child support from the boys they molest.
I am. I am taking notes. I'm extremely fortunate to not have had any issues.
>The fuck dude, you didn't even answer the question.
Actually, I did. I will reiterate for you.
>Are you talking about a company investigating sex harassment or the police investigating rape?
>I guess I would say, sexual harassment.
I literally, verbatim, answered the question. It was an either/or question. Sexual harassment or rape? And I literally, verbatim, said sexual harassment was the hypothetical that I wanted to know about.
I then proceeded to give an example of something that a girl would claim to be sexual harassment.
I really don't know what to say. I just wanted to know more. I had heard and read about it passingly, that this is something that happens, but I've never known anyone that dealt with it, or anything like that. I didn't even have anecdotes.
*sigh*. Ok. False rape/sexual assault convictions are statistically rare. Statistically, you're more likely to be raped yourself then to be falsely convicted of or charged with rape. You're also statistically more likely to be falsely accused of hundreds of other crimes such as assault, murder, kidnapping, extortion, etc.,
Additionally, the sexual assault/rape conviction rate is infamously low. Sexual assault and rape is exceedingly difficult to prove in court and only a small fraction of people charged with or arrested for sexual assault/rape even see a courtroom. A recent national study found that of 1,000 reported rapes/sexual assaults only 351 are reported to the police. Of that 351 only 57 lead to arrests. Of the 57 arrests only 11 are referred to prosecutors. Of those 11 cases that prosecutors decide they have enough evidence to proceed with only 7 will result in felony convictions and of those 7 only 6 will actually see any prison time. So, effectively, somewhere around 6 in 1,000 sexual assault/rape cases actually result in any kind of criminal prosecution. The odds of being falsely accused, arrested and convicted for a rape or sexual assault you didn't commit is even lower than 6 in 1000.
The point is that while anybody being falsely accused of a crime is tragic and wrong in every sense of the word it doesn't change the fact that the "false rape accusation" meme is statistically rare. Its not even an issue that comes up on the radar of criminal justice reform advocates because its so rare. Shitty Jow Forums man-babies just use every case of false rape convictions they can find as ammo for their autistic anti-woman, anti-feminist circle jerk. Like I said, you're statistically more likely to be sexually assaulted or raped by another dude then be falsely arrested or charged with rape. Consider this before taking the whinging of a bunch of angry incels to heart. Emotion based arguments are typically horseshit. Keep that in mind.
thanks, quality post
>You're also statistically more likely to be falsely accused of hundreds of other crimes such as assault, murder, kidnapping, extortion, etc.,
t. believes feminist statistics without a source.
The """source""" those feminists give you only shows cases which are proven false. Most false accusations aren't proven false so they don't count.
>The point is that while anybody being falsely accused of a crime is tragic and wrong feminists told me that it's not tragic or wrong and we should have more of it
kys
it's not a quality post it's complete shit which is why she couldn't provide any sources. She's full of shit and her "statistics" are made up.
Firstly, I'm a dude. Secondly, don't mistake any of the numbers for intent or opinion. I absolutely feel for anybody who has been falsely convicted of any crime but my emotion regarding the matter doesn't change statistics. I absolutely feel for anyone who has been bitten by a shark but the reality is that shark bite statistics are 1 in 3.7 million. Nothing you or I or anybody says or does will change that. I'm not going to sit in a thread full of people pretending like shark bites are epidemics and play along just so hysterical assholes like you aren't offended by reality.
Seeing as how I'm not writing a thesis paper I didn't include links to specific paragraphs of specific studies but the numbers are bulletproof, user. They're all from the CDC and national sexual assault hotline. If you care at all about confirming them before screaming about how they're apart of some feminist conspiracy you're free to google them. It'll take literally 3 minutes. You sound like a real idiot so I doubt you'll do that. I appreciate that you feel strongly about this argument but, like I said, your feelings don't mean shit in the face of actual statistics. Your emotions have clearly gotten the better of you.
>but my feminist training doesn't change statistics that feminists made up without sources
>but the numbers are bullshit made up by feminists which I believe because I can't think for myself
>They're all from feminist sources who would never lie to me
btw the CDC is the same organization that manipulated rape studies to hide men raped by women pic-related.
>you're free to google them
I've done a lot more than that user I know exactly which studies you're talking about
>You sound like somebody who has thoroughly researched this for many hours while i'm a dumbass who was brainwashed by feminists
> but, like I said, actual statistics don't mean shit in the face of my feminist feelings
you already lost and you know it. You're just resorting to empty insults because you know that your women's studies professor was full of shit, and you were gullible enough to believe her without bothering to do your own research to find out those "statistics" are bullshit.
Have you actually read any of those studies? Like personally read them. Or did you just see BuzzFeed throw some numbers out and assume their source was legit?
TL;DR: those studies only count false allegations *proven* false. Any accusation that isn't conclusively proven false is counted as true by them even if there's no evidence even if it's probably false.
Stop believing feminist lies, this is how we ended up with the wage gap bullshit
I was falsely accused of being abusive by my ex and the worst part about it was that every time I googled my very rare name it would link directly to about 4 of her tumblr blog posts. I contacted her and told her to take them off, she refused, so they stayed there for a while, I'd say maybe 2 years and I was finding it hard to find employment cause even my LinkedIn was like 3 paces below, finally I just got upset and told her straight up to remove them cause she knew they were false and to grow up and stop blaming me for tanking the relationship cause she cheated; she removed them and that was that.
You're not worth an intelligent response. Get back to me when you actually have an argument that is based in reality and isn't just hurling the word feminist at things you don't like.
>Have you actually read any of those studies? Like personally read them.
Yes. Have you?
>TL;DR: those studies only count false allegations *proven* false.
The only metric we have to work with is the statistics we have on hand. Wildly speculating on whether or not the number may or may not be higher due to some unknown metric we may or may not be aware of isn't helpful or conducive to a productive debate. If there is some unknown epidemic of people sitting in jail for rapes they didn't commit then show some kind of evidence.
>Any accusation that isn't conclusively proven false is counted as true by them even if there's no evidence even if it's probably false.
False. We have the number of cases that are taken to the police and we have the number of how many of those cases are taken to court and prosecuted. Your analysis is incorrect. If the case was dropped it gets marked as dropped. If the case gets a conviction it gets marked as convicted. There is no ambiguity. No one gets to decide which cases aren't true or false enough to be added to the federal statistics. Its all there in black and white, user.
>Stop believing feminist lies, this is how we ended up with the wage gap bullshit
Nothing you said was an argument. You just randomly assigned an agenda to objective reality in order to dismiss it because the numbers aren't supportive of the narrative you want to believe. In other words; don't shoot the messenger. I'm just relaying what reality is. Anybody has access to data on conviction rates, arrest rates and exoneration rates. I'm sorry you don't like the numbers but they are what they are. No amount of whinging and speculation will change them.
>TL;DR I don't like those statistics. They must be fake.