Just found out a friend of mine is an anti-vaxxer, how do I change her mind?

>Im not educated on the subject but id say just let people do what they wanna do.
Your lack of education on the subject is why your opinion is so dangerous. "Letting people do what they wanna do" is how lives are lost. Yes, adverse reactions are possible but, statistically, you're more likely to suffer from a disease being unvaccinated than getting the vaccine. Its called herd immunity. People without vaccines depend on the rest of the community to be vaccinated in order to avoid disease. Infants and the elderly are the most vulnerable. People die because of unvaccinated children running around spreading their disease. Get. Fucking. Vaccinated. Yes, any medication comes with a risk but the statistical risk of dying of a preventable disease is more dangerous than negative symptoms from vaccines. Its just statistics.

Yeah, all those poor kids not dying from measles, or polio. We should pity them all.

Deleted my comment because of typos but what I said was that people who are against vaccines aren't against the vaccine itself but rather the adjuvants in the vaccines.

People do not want to inject known carcinogenic toxins like Thimerosal and Aluminum Hydroxide into their bloodstream where they can damage growing brains.

Have you ever seen a baby with measles? Check it out and then tell me how unnecessary vaccination is.

Also, we have plenty of data on the long term effects of vaccination, we've been doing it for well over a century now.

Please see

read Completely irrelevant to vaccines and outdated information.

>Your lack of education on the subject is why your opinion is so dangerous.
You have no idea what you are talking about and are basically parroting idiocy.

No, because measles is already a super rare disease. Even without vaccines, it rarely ever sprouts and is sporadic.

>Also, we have plenty of data on the long term effects of vaccination, we've been doing it for well over a century now.
Hahahaha, no we don't. This is the #1 most experimental medicine ever in human history and to this day we still have no mastery over it.

It's still used in adult vaccines, I know because I went to get a vaccine in 2012 and I asked to read the label and it was in the Tetanus booster.

There's also ample evidence regarding Aluminum Hyroxide's neurotoxicity:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2819810/

I do agree that most vaccines are not warranted.

>You have no idea what you are talking about
Coming from the dude who has openly admitted that he has no education on the subject? Do you know anything about vaccines? The eradication of polio? If you did then perhaps you'd understand why "I think everyone should just do what they want" is an absolutely retarded approach to disease control.

>Hahahaha, no we don't
We do
>This is the #1 most experimental medicine ever in human history
That's unequivocally false
>to this day we still have no mastery over it.
The data shows otherwise.

It's rare, BECAUSE ALMOST EVERYONE IS VACCINATED AGAINST IT. When you start breaking down herd-immunity, it becomes a serious issue that spread like wild fire.

It's hard to say if vaccines are the cause or if our immune systems have adapted to fight these diseases off on their own. The human immune system hasn't needed vaccines for two hundred thousand years and has done well enough to get to this point.

Medfag here. You're actually retarded.

You're talking to the wrong guy. I am and trust me, I have 12+ years of experience in this field.

I will always love reading this. Normies with 0 background in this claiming "unequivocally" knowing anything and "data" that exists somewhere.
Funny enough, in this thread, a study was posted which states the obvious:
>In spite of the long history of widespread use, the physicochemical interactions between aluminum compounds and antigens are relatively poorly understood and their underlying mechanisms remain relatively unstudied [14].
And so on...

Not my original statement, nice try.
Measles is already a RARE disease in NON-VACCINATING countries.

Reading the study, I already don't like it. Having worked with similar methods, behaviour is not a good indicator of anything.
Also, the lack of significance between results and the clear lack of positive control shows the authors are pulling at strings...

>The human immune system hasn't needed vaccines for two hundred thousand years and has done well enough to get to this point.
You are actually, certifiably mentally retarded. You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.

That's nice.

You could point me to some information that definitively proves vaccinations are the reason for the decline and defeat of diseases but instead you resort to that.

The only people I know that get the flu are ones that get the flu vaccines. No, that's not a double blind study but I am seeing a strong correlation in my life that shows the exact opposite effect from vaccine use.

If you're a medfag as you state and you've taken a class in immunology then you will know how powerful our immune systems are. They will adapt eventually. Yes, some will die, sometimes even quite a lot of people will die. But our immune systems will adapt and we will continue on as a species. It's a natural process that needs to happen

>I have 12+ years of experience in this field.
Either you're flat out lying or you're the most incompetent person I've ever met. The fact that vaccines have virtually wiped out several diseases that were extremely common before the vaccine was created is evidence enough of your mental retardation.

>I will always love reading this. Normies with 0 background in this claiming "unequivocally" knowing anything and "data" that exists somewhere.
The first smallpox vaccine was 1798. We have literally 2 centuries worth of data on the effectiveness of vaccines, their symptoms and long term effects. The data doesn't exist somewhere, it exists literally everywhere. I have an extremely difficult time believing that someone this ignorant in their own field has 12 years of experience in it.

Because in nation's where the health system is non-existent or crumbled to where kids aren't vaccinated, things like polio return. Most recent that comes to mind is it resurfacing in Venezuela after the government collapsed.

Also, in states where anti vaxx moms cluster, measles and pertussis skyrocket

>You could point me to some information that definitively proves vaccinations are the reason for the decline and defeat of diseases but instead you resort to that.
Just fucking google "polio" you moron.
>The only people I know that get the flu are ones that get the flu vaccines
You demand data that definitely proves the effectiveness of vaccines yet in the very next sentence use your anecdotal observations as proof of your scientific claims?

>If you're a medfag as you state and you've taken a class in immunology then you will know how powerful our immune systems are. They will adapt eventually. Yes, some will die, sometimes even quite a lot of people will die. But our immune systems will adapt and we will continue on as a species. It's a natural process that needs to happen
I can't possibly express in words how absolutely idiotic you are. You are the stupidest person I've encountered in a very long time.

The problem with this medicine autism is that people are kind of right.
Yes, a vaccine is a way to intentionally make you sick, and this can have negative consequences. These consequences shouldn't be ignored and they aren't, at least where I live.
But a vaccine is designed to introduce a disease into your system that is so weak, your body can fight it off without you noticing. And once you have, you are much less likely to get sick by this disease.

The reason we care if people get sick by these specific diseases is that they tend to mutate once they are in a host. This means the other people now can get sick by the new thing.
We used to have diseases that wiped out cities that aren't a threat today. Vaccines are a big part of that.

You get as far away as possible. Once people get caught up in idiocy it's hard to get them to change. Maybe if you cut all ties she will eventually realize how retarded anti-vaxxers are and come back around.

>vaccines don't cure anything, they just make or health worse
your friend is actually retarded. why would you want to be friends with a person like this anyway?

There is a fair amount of evidence regarding polio having run its course naturally as there is for the vaccine solution. I have read both sides and have decided not remain open to input.

I didn't say it was scientific and prefaced it as such but I've noticed a correlation in my life. Not everything has to be dissected into pieces to be discussed openly. I do not shut people's opinions down unlike what you're trying to do with name calling and being generally rude.

What's idiotic about letting nature work as it has done for billions of years? People want to play god and they want to try to use vaccines as a power play for control over people. I understand your point of view but I see the need for control over all things to be naive and shortsighted.

Regarding our immune systems, there's nothing idiotic in stating how powerful the human immune system is. There's a reason why immune therapy is starting to take off as the main cancer treatment of the future as it has been shown that conventional treatments have failed for most stage 3 and 4 cancers.

This conversation is done because you are too high on your horse to have a discussion. I don't have time to play nice when you are unable to conduct yourself with decency.

>decided not remain open to input.

should be "decided to"

>Purpose of vaccines is to keep people from dying of diseases
>Let's just let it run its course and kill people because of "nature"

You're a fucking idiot, user. The point is for no one to die, not for us to all be culled by nature. We wouldn't kill wolves if we just wanted "nature to run its course."

>There is a fair amount of evidence regarding polio having run its course naturally
No there isn't.

>I do not shut people's opinions down unlike what you're trying to do with name calling and being generally rude.
What you're giving isn't an opinion. Its objectively false scientific claims that have no basis in reality.

>Not everything has to be dissected into pieces to be discussed openly.
When you use anecdotal observations as evidence then yes, it has to be dissected into pieces.

>What's idiotic about letting nature work as it has done for billions of years?
Because its completely contradictory to the entire concept of medicine. Medicine was born of the inherent human desire to prevent unnecessary death and misery. Letting nature run its course and letting people die when we have the technology to prevent that is just utter nonsense, plain and simple.

>People want to play god and they want to try to use vaccines as a power play for control over people
Thats the stupidest shit I've ever read.

>This conversation is done because you are too high on your horse to have a discussion. I don't have time to play nice when you are unable to conduct yourself with decency.
Ah, the old "I win the argument because I'm the calmest, most polite one" assertion. Get fucked, you idiot. My temperament has nothing to do with the fact that nothing you're saying is based in fact or reason.

The use of medicine and vaccines are a natural part of the process. I never said I was against them. I am against people forcing others to use them. It's not the decision of a government or another authority what another individual puts into their body. Vaccines are being used as a way of necessitating the need for a massive government that has overreaching powers of the individual.

You're a positivist, I'm not, we're never going to see eye to eye. If you want to see things from my perspective you'll want to understand humanism and read Aldous Huxley and Alan Watts.

I trust my anecdotal evidence over a lot of published nonsense out there. In the end, I trust myself and my own observations more than I trust what other people tell me.

You're obviously unable to hold a mature discussion so I will reply to the points that you bring up as I feel necessary.

Oh yes, measles are so rare that two years ago was the first time annual deaths from measles dropped below 100,000 world wide. In large part due to... hold on, guess what I'm about to say... increased vaccinations.

For the record almost 90,000 people still died from it. Almost all in non-vaccinating nations.

But sure, tell me how rare of a disease it is.

MODERN vaccines aren't worth it or helpful as they're touted. The first vaccines were more simple and required less dosing - these days they're full of weirdass unnecessary things in doses that are NOT safe for babies and children (not to mention have never been tested on babies/children because that's fucking unethical), given several times a year for years because their potency wears off, and there's an entire sector in the government that exists to give money to families whose healthy but vaxxed children and babies had adverse reactions following the vaccinations. Doctors DO NOT KNOW WHAT ARE IN VACCINES and are not required to know - they just push vaccines because THEY GET PAID FOR EVERY SHOT. Pharmaceutical companies that make them are owned largely by bigger companies like Bayer etc that are also anti-marijuana because they don't have control over prices for weed. It's a scam at this point and you're better off eating right and exercising and staying away from hospitals.
There's no reason for you to want to change an anti-vaxxer's mind except you've been brainwashed into big pharma's bullshit.

That's fine we'll let nature run it's course and let millions if not billions of people die each year due to preventable illnesses.

The next time you get injured or sick, don't go to a doctor. Just let that broken bone hang out and heal on it's own. And be sure you never get antibiotics for that infected cut. Wouldn't want to interrupt how nature has functioned for billions of years. I hope you enjoy gangrene.

You missed the post where I said I wasn't anti-medicine, the creation of medicine is a natural part of life and most of the healthiest medications are not synthetic.

N-Acetyl-Cysteine and Andrographis are some of the most powerful medicines available and I owe it to them for assisting my immune system in preventing me from being sick for six years (until this year where I was sick for three days where the rest of the office was sick for months).

I talked about the natural process and letting things go as they will because the previous posters were calling everyone retards for wanting to decide what they want to put into their bodies. There's a chance the people who don't take vaccines will die and if they do then so be it. There's also a chance that people taking vaccines will be damaged from the vaccines due to adjuvants or possibly even hidden ingredients that are not listed. There's quite a lot of evidence of weaponized tetanus vaccines being used in Africa for population control. Considering the track record of our government those who have a strong intuition will not trust vaccines or anything else being pushed onto the public.

Dumb fuck polio is coming back to Venezuela

Show them this youtu.be/RfdZTZQvuCo

It is not a chance just for them. I cannot get vaccinated, I am immunodepressed. If you don't get vaccines, you might kill me.

You take a gamble getting sick because even though you are being infected with a dead virus or bacteria, it's enough that your immune system react. Now what was different 30 years ago was that vaccines used to contain living organisms, so an active part, that could infect you like a real disease.

Until you get a clear understanding of the situation, you are an idiot as well.