DOW MOVES UP AGAIN: Holy Shit, Shills BTFO!

new lowest point reached at 23 469 btw

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let me just keep you updated you fucking non-happening pricks.

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kek

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godspeed dow

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The market moved up on speculation that the fed wouldn't raise interest rates. They are raising rates again this month, the announcement just came out. Check it and checkem were back to crashing.

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>23,395.3
>-280.30 (-1.18%)
>As of 3:00PM EST. Market open.
So that's something

pic related

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WHERE ARE ALL THE NON-HAPPENING FAGS NOW ?

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>down 200
did your mom have kids that lived?

I WON'T FUCKING STOP EVEN IF YOU BEG ME

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>dow moves down
>Jow Forums btfo
>dow moves up
>means nothing, fuck you Jow Forums
This is how anthropogenic global warming works.

> 1000 pt swing off day highs
Ooof

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oy vey

it's almost as if the most wealthy generation in human history is all about to retire at the same time, thereby removing a massive influx of capital from the system and making money lending more profitable.

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WILL CLOSE AT 22 500 MARK MY FUCKING WORDS

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hope no one wanted a lower mortgage.

LET'S GO EVEN FURTHER BEYOND AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

based polandball

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I don't really understand finance, so if anyone can explain this to me I'd be grateful
>10 year bonds (Fed issued) are worth less than 2 year bonds (Fed and others issued)
>Fed must raise interest rates or no one will buy 10 year bonds, which is bad for government
>Stock brokers want stocks to be worth more than bonds by a large margin
>Fed must not raise rates or stock brokers will REEEE and crash the market

HAHAHAHAHHAHA I FUCKING LOVE IT

FUCKING TALK TO ME NOW NON HAPPENING TRASHBAGS I FUCKING DOUBLE DARE YOU

>Somethingawful
Fuck i forgot how irrelevant that place became. Imagine paying to kiss tranny ass....

FORGOT PIC TOO EXICTED

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Why do I have a feeling you are the polack Canadian grocery store price troll?

It's almost as if their paper wealth and assets will be crashing with no survivors heading into it. It's almost as if they fucked a generation too hard and there's no one around to buy their assets/equity at ponzi scheme prices.... globally

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This is all just a healthy correction

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so uh
this is bad, right?

Yep, headed for a 1,000 point swing on dow. 24k-23k by close in 50min

oy gevalt, I hope the housing market fares well.

Look again you dunce.

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A new 1-year low.

Clearly, the markets depend upon "the fed" far too much.

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Keep talking Powell!

Off almost off -400 now!

Oh no! Coming back! Only down -315

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It's crashing everywhere...
> Seattle
> New York
> Vegas
> Bay area
> UK
> Vegas
> Australia
> EU

It's kind of hard to sell a homes at bubble levels to a generation you bankrupted. They played their hand too hard. Shits going to unravel in the years ahead. Pensions will be blown the fuck out when markets crash (again), retirement accounts 401ks etc and then they're going to hit them in the bread basket :
> home prices
After the ponzi schemes are cleared out (including shitcoin) then people will focus their energy on real productivity. Not a moment sooner.

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PPT to the rescue

I think you understand more than most. The interest rates are critical. Businesses need to borrow money to expand. If they cannot borrow money and make profit using leverage the businesses start to stagnate, and shrink as they have to pay larger interest on new debt. As of today we are at a target range of 2.25% to 2.50%. I've heard that 3% is a critical inflection point.

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BTFO. Check the markets again.

>"The Fed continues to see that the economy has been continuously surpassing expectations throughout year, with exceptional job growth rates month after month in a labor market that has had very little slack, which demonstrates just how healthy it is..."

Which is why we need to kill the housing and equities market for our kike-overlords. Fucking Powell.

Interest rates should always be low.
The problem is the lending of money to non-productive jack wagons which create ponzi schemes and asset/equity bubbles. So, what the fed more closely does is moderate the leech level in an economy. Real productivity is what drives the economy and it should have access to credit not money changers. However, since a good chunk of the 'economy' is bullshit money changing, rates have to be played with whenever the leeching causes issues. Look at the sheer amount of unproductive bullshit that was funded w/ cheap credit over the years. That's the problem not the rates.

oh boy here we go, OBONGO's CRASH here we come

the market should determine interest rates, not a bunch of kikes in an ivory tower

>drumpfshills in full damage control
Surely this is no 1929 crash but you would be retarded to ignore that Drumpf is closing the year in red.

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Bostin in an ebin bread

So why is the market going down as production and consumer spending goes up?

Bubbles kill themselves eventually which is why you don't allow them to be inflated so much. At some point you reach a price in equity/assets markets where you get no bid. The whole ponzi comes crashing down at such a point just like it did in 2008. Millennials have been fleeced and bankrupted. This is the fundamental downward force. They are now middle aged and have no capital to invest or buy bubble tier housing. So, fundamentally it collapses. The rest is a smokescreen

Any bets on what the CHICOM market is going to do?

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Woopsies

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> kikes on wallstreet should determine the interest rates
vs
> kikes a tthe fed

Cool story. Credit markets are fundamental cancer. Always has and will be until it crashes under its own weight.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury

If US goes under Russians will have military parade through Warsaw. Just saying.

Because its all based on credit. Credit that is signaling defaults and head winds.

Production is down globally big time as are shipments. Fedex earnings highlighted this yesterday. Meanwhile, consumer and corporate spending is based on debt which credit markets are shutting off access to. Meanwhile, equity markets have been propped up by cheap rate debt stock buy backs by corps. It's all one big ponzi scheme just like 2008 only bigger.

Stock market leads economic data. Sometimes it is wrong too. A recession in stocks isn't necessarily a recession in the broad economy. But we've been expected this downturn for a long time, I bet econ data will catch up to the stock mkt, and can rest because trump is powerless to stop it.

SSE and HCI are both going to nosedive, even with the 'reprieve.' SSE in particular is trading around 2014 levels.

Can I get a source on those metrics? I haven't dug into them before.

Looks like the Trump curse has finally caught up to the economy.

Called it

Economic forces lead markets.
Markets are always reactive.
All of the economic data looks like shit which is why markets are crashing now that it isn't possible to pump the ponzi higher.

> Global shipments are down
> Housing starts are down globally
> Housing prices are crashing globally
> Political turmoil is up
> Consumer credit spending is through the roof and defaults are beginning
> Leveraged corporate debt is seeing huge defaults
> Production is down
> Consumption is flat

Trump has nothing to do w/ this. This was in the cards ever since the bailouts of 2008 went to banks and reinflating bubbles instead of infrastructure spending and forward infusions for productivity.

$80 billion dollar ad companies
$10 billion dollar fart app companies

Yeah, all of the cheap credit/money went to stupid shit that does nothing for productivity.. undermines it even. There's an eventual price to pay for this.

>Millennials have been fleeced and bankrupted.
That's not entirely true, at least from what I've seen from surveys. For those that have had jobs they're actually pretty good savers -- but that's the key. There are far too many who are under/non-employed which seems to drag down the overall numbers to pretty depressing places.

The problem is more on the supply side of things (affordable housing). Everywhere in the US there's a lack of affordable/cheap but still 'good' housing. Gone are the cheap 'starter homes' of the 1950s-1970s. Homes are built exclusively as investment vehicles, and priced accordingly to that (and artificial scarcity borne from city planning/growth restrictions). Build (a lot) more reasonably priced homes, and the housing market will equalize naturally. Think of the post-war housing construction boom -- that's what's needed right now. But to get there you have to confront a whole lot of NIMBY.

Of course none of this matters if there are no jobs to earn wages to buy even the humble starter home. Putting downward pressure on the economy right now in the form of interest rate hikes is crazy, given that the EU and China are both going into (or already are in) recession or flat growth.

No, it's from various headlines over the last two years, mainly from Department of Labor and other government statistics. Manufacturing jobs are way up, manufacturing is mainly hitting bottlenecks in supply chains for parts and to a lesser extent workers, consumer spending is way up mostly from the tax cuts. I'm not sure if "productivity" proper is up or not.

I don't pay close attention. The only economic issues I really care about is getting NEETs back to work, housing prices down, and getting people to marry again, but those are unimportant fringe issues according to the press and economancers.

Fantastic.

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Interest rate hikes are needed after all the quantitative easing from the obongo administration. I'd rather us ease into a recession rather than the market exploding from the endless inflation.

100%, I think that's a totally correct point overall as the zero percent for years was unhealthy. As you've noted elsewhere (I think it was you anyway!) that this leads to a lot of [increasingly risky] speculation/price inflation as money seeks a return.

I just think the timing of this one in particular rate hike is dicey -- it might have been better to push it for a little bit. But all the same, it might be fine, too. I think what's going for the US right now is our economic health compared to the world. "Buy American!" is still the best investment.

It is entirely true as Millennials didn't benefit prior to 2008 and they were hit start/mid career in 2008 and before they reached a broad based point of asset/equity accumulation, the fed re-pumped an asset/equity bubble boomers were largely squared away on. This results in a non-transfer of wealth that has to occur for a generation to progress.

You can save all you want... Home price inflation far exceeds any savings rate or returns therein. This forces people into lots of risk allocations which are now crashing in equity markets. A double whammy.

> The problem is more on the supply side of things (affordable housing). Everywhere in the US there's a lack of affordable/cheap but still 'good' housing.
There isn't a supply problem. There never is. It's a convenient excuse for inflated ponzi scheme valuations. If there is a single home on the market, it's not a supply issue, it's a pricing issue. Supply has nothing to do w/ the over-leveraged housing market. Even when supply comes online via new-starts, it's priced at insane bubble tier levels proving my point.

> Of course none of this matters
The fundamentals are what always matter. No amount of money printing and bullshit can hide this which is why there's eventually busts when you diverge from fundamentals. Fundamentally, housing prices should be low (always), interest rates low, and credit restrictive w/ minimum bailouts. Wage growth is primarily necessitated by insane housing prices and rents (aka productivity leeches). Stupid priced real-estate is drains the economy, businesses, and productivity. Yet, they reinflated this depreciating collection of cheap materials again due to greed. This is exactly why 2008 happened and this current crash will be even bigger because they hollowed out the upcoming generation.

Again, credit restrictions are necessary.
Usury is never a boon to the economy or a stabilizer. It's a leech factor that has to be covered up by actual productivity. At 5%, you need killer innovation and productivity to mask the leech force of usury that is consuming capital. The problem is not interest rates, it's the allocation of credit to non-productive bullshit. Cheap credit wasn't given to everyone. It was given to the most unproductive pieces of shit in the economy. This is the real issue. It's convenient to ignore this and make broad based statements about the interest rate but that's deflection through and through.

Flat close like the fed rate hike and meeting.

Its not really his fault. The thing was never fixed in 08 and just got a shit ton of bandaids to keep it afloat. Trump just put the biggest bandage of all and fed it alot.

Well we are shifting back into manufacturing and production economy rather than pure service. This will hurt profit margins, but create long term gain. In essence you are seeing the purge that should happen in 08 of things that were irrelevant to the modern world.

>Democrats, liberals, Something Awful users, communists and Reddit BTFO forever!
All the cold hearted conservatives (myself included) want the market to crash with no survivors. We've been saving our cash since 2015 because we thought you dumb faggots would elect Hillary. Now we're sitting on stacks of cash, waiting for a bottom to invest in. Can't wait for another 2008. Gonna fucking retire in three years, again.

>Trump has nothing to do w/ this.
True, but he's the perfect scapegoat with his trade-war.

Dead cat bounce.