The Vietnam War

wow you sure convinced me, memeflag

It's much more complicated than what you said, basically. I have shit to do IRL now otherwise I'd give you a history lesson lol

most people don't consider it a loss when you defeat your enemy in every confrontation handily and killed tens of thousands more than you lost
especially not when you only leave because politicians told all the troops to pack it up and forget about it because the hippy liberals were crying

Who fucking cares? Everyone here will be long dead and I highly doubt the US will exist then.

Korea was basically in the same situation as vietnam before the cold war, gas yourself

1.1M losses vs barely 60k, lost...

So the middle east is a resounding victory too then?

nice try nguyen

We didn’t autist
Why the fuck is it our fault or responsibility that the north went back on their word after the treaty was signed?

never underestimate the power of gooky bois and their tunnels

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>why do some Americans insist that “we didn’t lose”?
Because you can't lose a war that has no win condition. What was our goal in Vietnam? To protect or at last resort destroy agricultural interests and to sell(well, I suppose buy) guns ammunition and helicopters. So I ask you what goal wasn't accomplished at and above expectations? The profiteers who instigated American nvolvement profited and isn't that what war is about?

> defeated isis
yeah it is now that Trump is here
>ISIS lost 90% of their territory and are now pretty much a non issue
literally resounding

>b-buh-but they need to be 100% defeated or it doesn’t count!!!!!!!

It was still a strategic failure for the US.

Ho chi minh literally tried and tried and wanted to be allies with USA way before korea. Americans were literally racist and laughed at him and so he had to go with the soviets because as shitty and terrible as the ussr was, at least they weren't as outright racist as the USA

(I hate commies, don't get me wrong. Just sayin)

Yes. Not for the American people of course but if the interests of citizenry was any consideration in our modern military policy we would've never been in any of these worthless foreign conflicts. But the arms dealers, the pharmaceutical and agricultural corporations they've made out quite well.
In relation to the goals set out these foreign military entanglements have been roaring successes.

Vietnamese wanna be Viets, not car supplying plastic surgeons

That is the most distgusting libtard propaganda ive heard in the last 5 minutes

You've got to admit that it was a very fucking stupid war, which reinforces the trend of Muricans doing immensely stupid things in other parts of the world.

So yes, I expect we'll still be laughing at Murican stupidity in 3018.

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Yes, this

Well it's true tho. Ho was a Viet first and communist second, and mostly just out of necessity because the west wouldn't treat small brown asian people as equals, not even close.

>they wanted it but americans were waysis!
>lmao they didnt even want it anyway capitalist dog

make up your mind brainlet

Inflicting a substantially higher body count but losing every strategic objective is still a loss. If KD ratio was all that mattered the Nazis won world war 2 and the Romans won in Germany.

pretty sure it's closer to 95%/99% but I was too lazy to Google it and I know at least 90% is confirmed

20 Marines and 2 Helicopters Vs One Rice Farmer with a Bolt Action

>Also, why do some Americans insist that “we didn’t lose”?
Because we did everything right and we only "lost" because hippies and protest back home made the war so unpopular that nobody whose job was at stake in an election was willing to support it any longer. The reason the conflict was so long and bloody was due to how heavily constrained the US was. Our military was not allowed to invade the north, we could only defend south Vietnam. The objective was to set up a "free democratic" Vietnam and prevent the spread of communism even though the people of Vietnam clearly didn't agree with that.

Given all this, Americans performed better than any other nation would have in the same situation. They mock us because it's literally the only thing they have left, their own pathetic militaries are jokes.

I'm not even gonna bother elaborating if you're this dense. Do some unbiased research one of these days, maybe.

This thread is like 98% cancerous american cowboy logic. Bye

Not really. The Viet Minh violently purged all the non-Comminists like the Viet Quoc.

Given the utterly bogus constraints put on the US military they were actually on a projected course to victory. It would be probably the most bloody, terrible victory ever won by the US military, but they were going to win. It was just going to take a very long time and probably another million dead Vietnamese before they finally gave in.

The war though was badly publicized by the American media and became massively unpopular in the States, causing social unrest and protests. Nobody wanted to support it any more at a time when continuous support was literally all that was required to win it.

I said ho chi minh, not the viet minh overall

except we won every strategic objective until the politicians decided to cancel the war
the viet cong were literally suffering defeat after defeat
you realize it's pretty hard to not lose strategic objectives when you're losing more troops than a country that has MORE TROOPS than you do
k/d only doesn't matter when the side with the worse score outnumbers you
otherwise you're definitely losing

Yeah, they literally have 3 villages that are surrounded on all sides by Kurds, Syrians, and Iraqis. I don't know why the (((media))) is trying to peddle the idea that they could ever resurge from such a complete defeat.

Doesn’t matter. Marcus aurelius conquered all the way to the Elba and was about to incorporate Germania as a new province and commodus decided to cancel the war. Legions kicked ass and burned like 1000 villages but the Germans still won the war when commodus decided he’d rather go larp as a gladiator.

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>How can we Americans ever recover from that fucking war?

By not bitching about how many civilians died and thinking it was a stupid war. It was part of the overall Soviet containment policy. We made the communist world waste resources they could not afford to spend in that way. We killed more and destroyed more.

>Will foreigners be bringing up Vietnam in the year 3018?

Probably not.

>Also, why do some Americans insist that “we didn’t lose”?

We didn't. By all measures, we won. We ended the war like we did in Korea. We fucked them up bad but didn't want to risk war with China so we drew a line and bugged out. Several years later, they re-started the war and fucked up the useless S. Vietnamese government. We left because the S. Vietnamese were lazy fucks who didn't give a hsit about fighting their own war competently. So once we fucked up the North, we left hoping the South would do something. They didn't and got overrun years after the US left the war.

Need some kind of boogieman to keep America involved in Syria now that nobody gives a fuck about toppling Assad. Wasn't everybody and their dog blaming Americans (but never Obama, for some reason) for kicking off the whole refugee crisis by intervening in Syria? Now they want us to stay? Fuck off. However bad Assad is he's not worse than a fucking decade of civil war and fucking ISIS.

Let him and Putin clean up the Jihadi filth and then use diplomacy once the guns are put away and everybody calms the fuck down.

Imagine if that war was now
>Let's 56 infantry discovers a hole in the ground
>Go have a look private
>This absolute unit of American plugs the hole
>Gooks cannot leave the hole
>Mfw America wins the war because all holes are plugged
>All the gooks die of suffocation

Is this nato doctrine now? We plug holes?

The Vietnamese were first and foremost nationalists. They wanted their country to be free, America on the other hand supported the French colonialists.
They gradually became communists because the commies were the only ones willing to fight the invaders.
If America had played it's hand better they could have built a regime comparable to Japan or Korea there without spilling the blood of 60000 of their own young men and gorillions of Vietnamese.

Precisely, now that the US is leaving, the Kurds will have to talk with Assad about rejoining Syria, and Erdogan will not be able to attack them. Reunification is the best scenario, considering the other options lead to a weak and unstable Kurdish state that relies on Saudis like Israel relies on the US

sounds like they didn't lose then
I'm not claiming that we won Vietnam but we weren't defeated like retards here claim
you could even say we technically lost by forfeiting right before winning but we weren't defeated militarily

>Will foreigners be bringing up Vietnam in the year 3018?
Yes. And Iraq too.

Are you suggesting Ho Chi Minh had nothing to do with the suppression of the non-Communists? Because that is demonstrably false.

Early Ho was MUCH more of a moderate than he gets credit for, and was pushed by both sides to get more desperate and violent, then the american war started and everything went irreversibly to shit. It sucks how everyone on both sides of vietnam got more and more brutal. But the west didn't help and really just made things worse even as they tried to "help" lol.

Overall, it just is a shitty period for everyone involved IMO.

I gtg tho bye

They definitely won the short term tactical objectives but they lost the long term strategic reasons they went to war. Germans were still on the Rhine and still raiding and eventually conquering Roman provinces.

k/d ratio is garbage, how many vets killed themselves after.

>American admiting they lost.
This can't be real, ((someone)) must be behind this post.