50% of marriages end in divorce. Some assume that the other 50% are therefore "successful marriages." Many men disillusioned with marriage continue to stay with their wife to avoid child support payments, alimony, displeasing their God, and being shunned by society. Considering this, the actual percentage of happily married lifetime couples is closer to 10%. Let's not forget that women are depreciating assets. The beauty of women deteriorates rapidly as they reach the age of 30, especially if they had children. Even if you manage to find a mentally stable virgin girl (highly unlikely that she hasn't been banged weekly since 16) and form a lifelong marriage with her, she will likely balloon up and wrinkle into an old lady following marriage. Remember that your peak market value as a man is in your 40's and 50's.
Common criticisms of MGTOW:
>It's a Jewish subversion plan to lower white birthrates. Your individual decision on whether to have kids and marry has no impact on the white race. There are 800,000+ whites in the world now. You adding a couple more won't shift the demographics and the self-loathing culture which permeates the western world. Additionally, you don't have to enter a marriage contract to have children. MGTOWs choose surrogacy.
>MGTOW is for virgin incels. We do not advocate celibacy. We merely wish to admonish men of what they are getting into when signing the marriage certificate. Short and long term girlfriends for the purpose of sexual gratification are the ideal for MGTOWs. Just replace them the minute they try to boss you around or when they get fat.
You can't be upper middle class and in college you mouth breathing retard. Your mom and dad are upper middle class and you're just a leach.
Also yes me and my wife are born into lower middle class families and we are now upper middle class.
Jose Roberts
Well? Forward towards what?
Carter Gonzalez
>You adding a couple more won't shift the demographics and the self-loathing culture which permeates the western world. >calls MGTOW a movement >affects multitudes of men nice try chaim.
Luke Hughes
Ah. How?
Nathan Myers
Fuck off back to you fucking kike
Ryder Cruz
MGTOW is degenerate. Not a Christchurch, but sex is only for your wife for the purpose of reproduction. Semen retention otherwise at all times.
Thomas Turner
Christcuck*. Fuck phoneposting.
Easton Sanders
>Semen retention otherwise at all times. Do you want a jihad? Because this is how you get a jihad.
Cooper Rodriguez
His whole point is that marriage is a shit deal. This is because of the loss of male authority.
Lucas Stewart
I'm a MGTOW, here's a balanced opinion on it.
I'm a MGTOW but I wouldn't advocate surrogacy, single parents do a very bad job of raising children. Single women do very badly but single men don't do a lot better, it's the biggest predictor of degenerate adults, a bigger single predictor than both race and class, that's right the average black kid from a 2 parent family does better statistically than a white middle class family raised by a single parent.
The Jewish conspiracy makes no sense, you can't leech from a population that you're actively decreasing, it's not a coherent theory, it's just the same paranoid conspiracy theory rubbish.
Let's face it MGTOW is a haven for virgin incels, but it doesn't mean that all MGTOW are like that, every group has its baggage like this, who do not represent the ideas of the group.
I would also add that you shouldn't consider MGTOW a movement, you're not joining a group and you shouldn't let a bunch of people convince you otherwise. Going your own way is your own journey, you need to figure out the facts, make your own decisions, otherwise you're not going your own way you're just following a different crowd. Which is why I'm not a massive fan of threads that promote MGTOW, I'd rather just discuss the facts, the divorce rate, alimony, child support and the upcoming legal and financial liability that comes with just living with a woman. (For UK residents, google the cohabitation bill)
Benjamin Miller
>50% of marriages end in divorce. more like 90% married boomers don't count
Ryder Watson
The answer is Simple. Take women's rights away.
Carson Brown
Those guys masturbate. I guarantee it. That's the biggest sexual frustration. Masturbation without sex. However, semen retention gives you an inner peace and drive to accomplish your goals. Perhaps your goal is jihad, though, so you got me there.
Henry Perry
I already addressed the Jewish stuff. I'm not a Jew.
Ah so you married an ugly girl but consider yourself successful cuz "at least i found someone." lol
By not falling into the pit that most men do.
You're closer to being the kike by trying to perpetuate something which only works in a traditionalist, patriarchal society. Marriage has been subverted lawfully and only benefits the female now.
Isaiah Ross
What you mean is that you are unemployed and Daddy is an upper-suburb dweller. His class is not yours, you’re still a kid in school - you know little.
Thomas Richardson
imagine being this pathetic that you can't handle a woman just lol
Jaxson Price
>No Kids >No Households >No Future
Great Plan Einstein, so the solution to the fucked up marriage and family situation in the West, which you suggest, is to simply give up and join in the pointless hedonism. So essentially, once actual values, goals, ambitions and ideals become to much of a hassle, lets just do what everyone else does. Its the most bitchy, short sighted and pathetic attempt at trying to rationalize both failure and surrender. You are not rebelling, you are not changing anything, you are handing the people responsible the ultimate victory they desired but think, that, because you pretend not to care you are somehow winning. And this pathetic line >Your individual decision on whether to have kids and marry has no impact on the white race. As if you as an individual can change nothing, as if we arent an entire crowd of individual and as if leading by example can change nothing. All that MGTOW is promoting is nihilistic, defetist dogshit with the core message that we should just stop resisting and start to degenerate into absolute hedonism like everyone else. In the End youll be greated by the same fate that awaits every roastie and the rest of the fucked up bunch. You'll get to spend decades in lonelyness, watch your friends die around you and in the End, you'll close the coffin behind you, because there is no one else to do so. And all of that because the lot of you put a ring on any roastie that stayed with you longer than a year and are to retarded to marry responsible. The situation is fucked up and there is a lot of risk involved but this is neither a solution nor an actual way to change anything. Its accelerationism disguised as right-wing individualism. Fuck off with that shit
Meh, if nofap/sex is your thing, I don't care. It's bro science bullshit, but whatever.
>wouldn't advocate surrogacy The idea with surrogacy is to fully own your kids and not risk ever losing them. You can have a gf who watches the kids, and she will never acquire ownership over them.
Jason Brooks
I'm not even reading what you wrote. I understand that kids are the future, but perpetuating a broken system won't help you achieve your goals. Your kids will be indoctrinated under the system, and they will be used as tools by the government.
Camden Diaz
>Great Plan Einstein, so the solution to the fucked up marriage and family situation in the West, which you suggest, is to simply give up and join in the pointless hedonism. MGTOW is not a solution for fucked up marriage, it's a solution to protect men. Who ever said men were going their own way to fix marriage, that's something other people project onto MGTOW, it's not what actual MGTOWs believe.
It's not necessarily a route to pointless hedonism, you can choose to do that if you like or you can choose to adopt responsibility and carry a burden, such as run your own business, employ other people, help your family, friends and community, help and give to charity. All perfectly compatible with MGTOW.
>You are not rebelling, you are not changing anything Again not what actual MGTOW believe, this is mere projcetion onto MGTOW. Men go their own way to save their own ass.
>All that MGTOW is promoting is nihilistic, defetist dogshit No we're not, no where has anyone said that, not in this thread and not in the 1000's of other threads on Jow Forums or elsewhere. It's extremely unusual that you'd see a man going his own way promote anything like this. You've also constructed a false dichotomy where the only thing that can save you from hedonism and nihilism is if you marry a woman and she squeeze a kid out from between her legs. Sorry but that's not true at all, there's a large middle ground, some of which I've given examples of.
Matthew Morris
my marriage ruined the best realtionship i ever had with someone who genuonely loved me.
Nathan Williams
Look at this trash and ask yourself if bot posting and shills are real?
Jacob Lee
>doesn't show flag
>prepared statements
Obvious jewry.
Going mgtow is embracing low status as a man. That's why it has this strong empowering name. Bunch of fags that deserve each other. Thank you for making it easier to climb the pole and fuck you for not standing tall together.
Matthew Barnes
>Thank you for making it easier to climb the pole You're welcome. The pole has a fatal crack half way up where it snaps and destroys men, your crucifixion on that pole will be nothing but entertainment for the rest of us, so quick get climbing.
Joshua Cooper
Funny how circular the answer to this simple questions has been.
Mgtow is the way forward because it makes you happy. How? By going forward. Forward into a genetic grave.
I don't even advocate legal marriage, but mgtow advocates genetic death. Mgtow should be regarded as a suicide cult, which it is.
Nolan Cook
I'm not even christian and I can taste the christian hating imagery from here.
Better to try and die than to suffer cowardice, kike.
Luke Parker
>I don't even advocate legal marriage, but mgtow advocates genetic death You're clearly a dumb fuck who didn't read my post. My post explains why not to enter a marriage contract and does not advocate celibacy. I offered solutions to those who aspire to procreate.
Luis Price
Artificial wombs will make women obsolete for reproduction.
>but mgtow advocates genetic death That only matters if you value and care about genetic death. Some people just do not care, or don't care enough for the current level of personal sacrifice required. We have to face that question of why are we OK forgoing it, but I never see people like you face the opposing question, why value it in the first place. What's the argument for that?
>I'm not even christian and I can taste the christian hating imagery from here. Cool, irony digits.
Actually I am an atheist but I find christian moral values among some of the best in the world. But that's not what we have now in the west, the government replaced the church and fundamentally broke traditional marriage by interfering with the family unit, by giving women all of the rights and benefits and men all of the responsibility.
Nathaniel Cox
Please keep pushing this stupid and failed idea
More beautiful and intelligent women will be available
By now the whole western society is a suicide cult. What's the point of taking on responsibilities such as children when you have the whole environment working against them? A man builds a house before establishing family, not the other way. Far less resources wasted trying to fix society instead of maintaining a family in a broken environment.
Samuel Garcia
>become a genetic dead end goy, it's so le redpill fuck off and die kike
>There are 800,000+ whites in the world now. Go ahead and fuck off.
Jacob Clark
>and in college >don't get married and part with your hard earned cash >speaking for myself, 'hard-earned' means "money my parents give me"
zoomers are cancer. sage
Oliver Nelson
You need to be low IQ to be against MGTOW
Ryder Lewis
It's a decent idea, but I can't take it seriously since 99% of it's supporters are sexually frustrated men that would drop this idea the second they get female attention.
Charles Sanchez
Im a MGTOW too, but there sure has been a lot of threads on the topic in the last few months. I guess its finally hitting critical mass.
Josiah Reed
Nobody said you can't fuck women
Carter Morgan
>Let's face it MGTOW is a haven for virgin incels
Honestly i'd rather they go MGTOW than shoo up roasties or run them over with van. Honestly this MGTOW shit saves lives, not only that of men but that of women too...
Justin Hill
A thread full of shills shilling their own shill thread, beautiful
I doubt it helps them cope anymore than just being single. All it does is serve to give MGTOW a bad name. As a MGTOW of more than 5 years it doesn't really effect me, because I respond to rational arguments, not shaming language. But for many other young men it could be off putting which exposes them to divorce rape, which is good for no one.
Christian Long
Pie brains
Why would women push for divorce laws and ban paternity tests?
Joseph Allen
Yeah sure bro, marriage is falling because a couple guys are shilling in an anime website. It's not like it has been a trend for half a century or anything.
Nathan Allen
Post of the year.
Grayson Phillips
I sometimes go to the massage parlor and tuck my dick inbetween my legs so they are forced to stare at my boner. Sometimes her hand accidentally rubs up against it
Charles Brooks
>Your individual decision on whether to have kids and marry has no impact on the white race
A collective shift is the accumulation of "individual" decisions. Prove me wrong. The first major issue we are facing are the low birth rates, we desperately need to have more children and create more families. Your MGTOW nonsense is a modernist attempt at rationalizing your genetic suicide. Nobody in the past cared about the prime age of women or the "peak market value of men", this materialist approach of relationship with women is a sign of degeneracy and decay
>Nobody in the past cared about the prime age of women or the "peak market value of men", this materialist approach of relationship with women is a sign of degeneracy and decay Good boy
MGTOW is just a warning to men. It is up to them to decide
Jeremiah Perry
It's more like 5 eternal male virgins and one 'chad' who doesn't dare to take his wives hijabs off during sex in case he loses his erection. Alternatively a man behind a goat making them supprisingly similar to the Welsh.
Josiah Collins
>A collective shift is the accumulation of "individual" decisions. Prove me wrong. This is true, but it doesn't change the fact that people respond to incentives, MGTOW are reacting to a changing landscape and if you want those men to opt back in then arguing is pointless, force will not work, and MGTOW are primed to understand and reject shaming language. It means restructuring the incentives to be attractive to men again.
Grayson Richardson
yup. western men think they're real mans man when they're doormats and walking credit cards for some fat feminist that has no respect for them, you see this situation in finland all the time with your typical 30-60yo males.
William Reyes
A warning to men working to change the demographic and societal tide while faggots sit on the sidelines bitching at those actually struggling to make a change because somehow doing nothing is the best strategy to win while the enemy is working full-time to replace you. Because these faggots forget in their utter arrogance that they are expendable and that if they leave the game, there'll always be 4 or 5 tyrones, paco and muhammads ready to take their place while the faggots think they will somehow be needed when what they call "the collapse" happens except western civilization is not going to die with a bang but with a whimper, and nobody will need them since normal people will simply forget about their existence and they'll die alone with regrets in their own misery. A complete genetic waste
Austin Adams
You need to reduce AOC and change the divorce rape laws to make it so there's no benefit for divorce rape.
Sexlessness is increasing massively in Western societies now.
Cooper Nguyen
You are implying that there is a "future" that includes ignoring or abstaining from marriage and most likely also abstaining from having kids. If you had kids without a marriage or a stable household then you will most likely not raise happy and well rounded children. I see the absolute fucked up state in which a modern day man finds himself if he wishes to marry, just like you do, but you pretend that we can simply "ignore" marriage, as in, abstain from it, which would solve the problem by "going our own way". This is a wrong way of thinking. You cannot put Marriage or children out of the equation because they are a necessity. Marriage needs to be fixed and as you yourself said, MGTOW does not provide any solutions for this, but rather suggests to just drop the whole thing completly, which may achieve short term success but in long term will only increase the alienation between man and woman which got us here in the first place and the low birth rates as well.
>It's extremely unusual that you'd see a man going his own way promote anything like this.
It is not directly promoted, but it is the ultimate conclusion. No marriage, no kids. Instead most MGTOW supporters suggest that you can instead sleep around without a care or anything binding to a single woman, in essence joining in and furthering the system that has let us to this point in the first place. You cannot complain about the abysmal state of women sleeping around and being unable to commit to a relationship only to then also perpetuate no commitment to any relationships yourself as a solution. This may solve the problem for yourself, short-term that is, but it neither solves it for future generations, nor for others, and in the long run not even for you, because by abstaining from marriage you abstain from a very important step in your life and adulthood towards family and legacy.
>MGTOW are reacting to a changing landscape >It means restructuring the incentives to be attractive to men again.
Except the incentives won't restructure themselves and retreating is not an effective way to react to the changing landscape, it's simply an act of submission. Nobody will care, things will continue as planned while you retreat like the little faggot you are.
Again with the massive arrogance, you're like the "I'm intellectually superior" fedora tippers who think they're enlightened while everyone else is a mindless sheep because they listened to some pseudo-intellectuals nobody knows. Reproduction is PART of the problem, MGTOWs have a lower chance of reproducing and it's easy to assume they have a way lower average birth rate compared to the overall white population. "Women push for divorce laws and ban paternity tests", it's like you think women are some evil creatures whose only goal is to destroy the white race even though they are part of it. Guess what, women are easy to manipulate hence why, in average, they fall more easily than men for the leftist agenda. But it's also the men's fault for not being able to control them. You are the parents who blame their kids for acting like trash while they totally neglected their education and didn't give them the good exemple.
Nicholas Miller
Also: I am not arguing that it needs to be marriage, as you can get both a family and everything with it without actually "marrying", that is, simply living together as if married, and while it carries less legal risk you can still lose your children, and a part of your income depending on the place you live in. There is no way around it. If we want a future, if we want to find happyness in family and children we must not "go our own way" and close the door behind us, we must stand up for ourselves and fight for this god given right that has been taken from us. The right to a future and a family that has been enjoyed by thousands of generations before us. Laws need to be changed and an actual movement needs to be created. Why do you think MGTOW has had such little impact? Because there is no impact coming from it, because you're just opting out of a system so broken no one even expects you to use it anymore. I remember a few months back when me and a bulgarian user created a little general called "Make Men Men again" or something like that. Its a start.
>The only way forward Forward to what? Never having kids or partners? Waiting for mommy and daddy to die so you can blow your brains out? Becoming the male equivalent of a crazy cat lady? What future do MGTOWs look forward to?
Aaron Morales
Men will continue to not get married to them, so long as women continue to be disloyal cunts. Vast majority anyway. Divorce industry needs to go though.
Adrian Harris
>I'm not even reading what you wrote. I understand that kids are the future, but perpetuating a broken system won't help you achieve your goals. Your kids will be indoctrinated under the system, and they will be used as tools by the government.
But the solution to this problem isnt giving up and not having kids at all. Explain to me how that fixes anything and how it even helps you as a person. If this way is chose you are accepting your fate, just as (((they))) intended. Im not sure if any of you understand the gravity of the implication of not having kids and never getting married.
Brandon Adams
there are difficult challenges here men might be better advised to stay in marriage but I can hardly say that in any man's face given the shitty times men have
Gavin Williams
Except the overwhelming majority of people's lives are nothing like this you urbanite scum.
Adrian Price
This jew memeflag turd burglar is trying to get you to castrate yourselves.
Jose Sanders
>What future do MGTOWs look forward to? being alone and independent, and taking care of their shit themselves that's what what's so hard to understand
Lucas Jackson
Wow this thread is full of fucking shills battling for or against mgtow, why are you so fucking triggered about what other men do? Faber esr suae quisque fortunae.
Kevin Mitchell
French boy on fire and on point.
The short-sightedness is downright staggering. You have no legacy for crying out loud, you can take care of anything you want but at some point in your life you will be old and you will have nothing left behind. You people completely fail to understand the implication of "just not getting married" and "not having kids".
What exactly do you mean by mgtow choose surrogacy?
Matthew Scott
You can still fuck. Just don't get married and don't put women on a pedestal.
Juan Ross
ALL laws are to the benefit of women enabled by goodboys like you. they view men as nothing more than utilities evolutionary speaking. Marrying someone is a death sentence in todays world, until the laws are changed i will not risk losing my children and money.
Also nice job on blaming men here good little boy.
Not participating in society is exactly what is needed.
Julian Price
>being alone and independent Sounds like a feminist slogan. Fucking hell t. Ricchione
Tyler Young
Daily reminder that mgtow and feminists both
>put gender above family >pro fornication anti marriage >incapable of fixing their own problems or adapting to the current situation and instead hope for a 3rd party savior >think being a victim absolves them of all responsibility >is caused by rejection by opposite sex
Camden Reyes
And don’t have children. If you do your going to end up paying child support. Which seems to against the whole philosophy of mgtow?
Eli Brooks
>losing my children How are you going to get children? >money. muh shekels
Oliver Myers
Mgtow = killing your species
Are you a shitskin?
Jayden Jenkins
MGTOW = I refuse to give up my freedom to masturbate myself retarded whenever I want and/or get a job that allows me to move out of my parents house
None of you are George Clooney so don’t start with the international playboy fantasies, those two issues above are the only ones playing into your decision to stay lonely
Kayden James
Listening to you faggots to throw "incel" at eachother is like listening cuckservatives to hurl "racist" at those further to the right. Grow the fuck up.
I find continuous distinction between MGTOW and incel to be infantile and tiresome. If you have a job and spare cash, you're not an incel.
The issue isn't in getting laid, the issue is finding a female worth making a stable family with, which is near impossible. MGTOW is simply an acknowledgement of those odds. But for some reason keyboard Chads love to muddle the distinction between sex and family, which says more about them than MGTOW.
t. upper-middle class, regularly lifting, 38, MGTOW
Angel King
Nothing wrong with being single. Or not having children. I’m just trying to figure out what exactly this whole movements about.
Hudson Cook
50% divorce rate is faker than the wage gap. The actual divorce rate has hovered under 20% for decades.
Hudson Scott
>Not participating in society is exactly what is needed.
Are you implying that it'll make any positive difference if we collectively just opt out? Do you think women and the current law system designed to keep us from marrying and having kids will somehow magically change if we stop marrying and having kids?
Serious question for the guys here that plan to marry. Are you aware of how fucking high the divorce rates are? It's actually like 60-75℅, and it's almost ALWAYS initiated by the woman for obvious reasons. How can you go through with such an archaic system that factually will likely end in you getting hurt? I just can't bring myself to do it, knowing the stats. I know a bad deal when I see one. We know niggers make disproportionate crime and debt, why do we ignore stats for women.
Zachary Wilson
Yes, i dont care but women need men. If men earn as little as possible for tax reasons and dont give money to women, they will be forced to hear men
