Red pill me on greek orthodoxy...

Focus on Orthodoxy's core tenets, don't delve into specific traditions like Greek, Russian, Antiochian, etc.

Phyletism is the largest issue facing Orthodoxy today.

Greek Orthodoxy is for the Greeks. fuck off

there is also American Orthodoxy

goarch.org/about2681

that's what I was going to do. Greek Orthodox is the only one near me though.

this
there are Russian, Ukrainian, Greek, Romanian, Antiochan, Serbian... churches, all within driving distance where I live. checking as many out as I can first.

So you're also looking into orthodoxy? What prompted you?

well, I grew up as a Christian, albeit without any religious guidance or having my parents take me to church. I eventually reached a point in adolescence where I felt like I couldn't justify to myself intellectually how I could remain a Christian, so I ended up arguing myself into atheism.

then I ended up exploring Buddhism, in part because it was the only religion that didn't possess a deity at its centre, but I wasn't able to continue my enthusiasm for it after about a year of exploration and half a year of enthusiastic practice.
I think there's something to what the Dalai Lama never neglects to place near the beginning of every one of his books: that people should pursue their own tradition's beliefs and practices. basically ,he actives discourages westerners from pursuing Buddhism, and from what I experienced, I believe there is wisdom in people pursuing the religion they were born into, instead of dabbling in religions foreign to them.
>continuing...

> I grew up as a Christian but not really
same here, my parents weren't that passionate about religions besides holidays and festivities and I'm not either

it's funny because one of the main things that attracts me to Orthodoxy is the unreformed tradition that the Church has guiding it to this day.
without that tradition's guidance, I was essentially arguing with my own private conceptions of Christianity, which from what little I've read since were oversimplified caricatures of what Christianity actually is. in some important sense, it was necessary for me to apostatize from my bastardized, private interpretation of the faith so I could find what I believe to be the true version of it.

maybe you should talk to some priests or something

here's the thing: I was never one of those embittered individuals who hated God, or had any sort of negative experience with a church with a distorted understanding of what Christianity is. had I been more impatient to go to church as a child, I would have probably walked into the first of the many Protestant churches near me, and been naively loyal to it (and I probably would have ended up becoming frustrated with its lack of deep historical understanding of the religion it claims to be teaching - for them the "true faith" only began in the 1500s)

get new perspectives you know

where i live the island takes part in orthodox fasting, dairy is excluded from restaurant meals during the fast

the best part of orthodoxy vs other christianity is the long kept traditional people who are a family in the orthodox countries. to get a good initiation visit the rural churches of cyprus or greece, mainland russia has amazing churches and people too

I've gone to a few churches already, but I haven't had the chance to speak to a priest yet. it'll probably happen very soon.

I recently attended a Vespers service at a Russian church, and I was struck by the utter solemnity of it. I was nearly brought to tears.

during the intermediate period between then and now, I spent what seems like an absurd amount of time exploring music and movies. it feels like I was groping around for something intrinsically meaningful, and using my senses in concert with my mind to try to find something permanently relevant and meaningful to me.

during that time, became really able at telling whether a piece of music had something compelling about it, whether a movie (and the way it was put together) had something important or interesting to say
it feels like I had been "primed" for detecting meaning in things, and that was the time when I discovered the Cain and Abel story. I was completely floored when I found that short bit of text - as powerfully meaningful as anything I had ever encountered in my life up to that point.

I started speaking with one today. A lot more welcoming than I had thought. I actually met him in line at a grocery store last week lol

I continued reading short parts of the Bible, and while I had read portions of it before, I started to get the feeling that I was reading it for the first time.

one of the things that's surprising about Orthodoxy is that most people don't even know it exists! here people thing in terms of this dichotomy: the Catholic Church, and innumerable Protestant sects against it.

the main reason why I have come to explore Orthodoxy in depth first, despite coming from a background that has no bias either way between traditional Catholicism or Orthodoxy, is because they seem to have a more unchanging tradition.
it's hard for Catholics to lay a claim to being the traditional faith, when they revised their liturgy beyond recognition in the 1960s. I've attended Catholic services as well, and it felt like something important was missing. in contrast, when I attended that Russian service earlier this month, I felt overwhelmed.

but even leaving aside the traditional complaints from the Orthodox Church aside (papal supremacy, the addition of the filioque the the Creed), I think that the later changes to the Catholic Church have been far more drastic than anything that happened nearly a millennium ago. the doctrine of papal infallibility was only innovated in the 1860s - in the life the the Church that might as well have been last month. and the transformation of the Tridentine Mass into an "extraordinary form" of the liturgy, seems to have been an unusual abandonment of the Western Church's tradition. one can partake of the traditional liturgy in any Orthodox Church, whereas traditional Catholics who want to participate in the traditional mass must travel hours in some cases to those few churches that still perform the traditional liturgy regularly, just to experience what was the common experience of all Catholics until the 1960s

I had the same experience and it brought me to Orthodoxy too. I don't think we're alone

surely we're not - I'm glad that part of my story reflected some aspect of your own experience.

They have completely cucked out on all social issues. Russian orthodox is the only based and redpilled sect left.

What were you raised as/what was the faith of your parents?

please give a quick summary if you can - I haven't heard anything about this.

the Greek Orthodox Church's website has this article summarizing their positions on a range of social issues:
goarch.org/-/the-stand-of-the-orthodox-church-on-controversial-issues
>The Orthodox Church brands abortion as murder
this doesn't seem to coincide with your claim that the Greek Orthodox have cucked out on all social issues.
unless there's a massive gulf between their stated values and the practice of their adherents, I don't think your claim is entirely accurate.

bump

tpbp. /thread.

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There's a romanian orthodox church in my city, is it worth going? I'm assuming they talk in their native language so would there be any point?

He's taking about niggers

as I've said earlier in the thread, I visited a Russian Orthodox church for Vespers service on Saturday. these are open to the public.
after the service, they had a bilingual person waiting in the lobby. I asked him what I would have to do to join the church, and he provided me with the priest's contact information.
now that the Christmas rush is over, I finally have an opportunity to follow up.

Nice tits, ass, and skin tone on the one on the right

>flag
Dios mio...

>all religion is false
That cannot be proven any more than most scientific theories

>it once served a purpose, but it really doesn't have any anymore
As long as faith is not conflated with science, I agree. Having faith doesn't mean being willfully ignorant, and not all people of faith mean it to replace or prohibit progress

>The only one true god is your genetic heritage,
Pointing back at scientific theories again; nothing is proven, what is scientifically empirical has been changed and redefined more than even religious beliefs. "Planet" Pluto, Triceratops, Time-space, and many other concepts or scientifically examined phenomena are being reexamined, redefined, or debunked often for new ideas as we grow in our capacity to understand them.

>and the process of evolution.
Most evolution is accepted theory, not proven fact.
Most faith is accepted theology, not proven fact.

>If we recognize this, we'll reach the stars and beyond
No we won't. Time and space (time-space) are linked and immutable. We are limited by the parameters of our existence and relative proximity to other worlds. Our species will always stand apart barring anything outside of the realms of conventional science (like fantasy).

>pic unrelated
Yes and no; those tits are false, but we believe in them well enough. Also, does that chick have lavender hair?

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>>and the process of evolution.
>Most evolution is accepted theory, not proven fact.

you're conflating a hypothesis and a theory. The Theory of evolution is used to generate hypothesis, which are then tested using experiments. Results are published and can be consumed by people. You're welcome to consume this material and point out flaws in methods and conclusions! Quick hop in and try it, 100s of articles are added to the scientific literature each day relating to tested hypothesis generated by the theory of evolution. Check em out!

this sounds like an American problem, t.b.h.
I'd be surprised that there are any African Americans going into the Orthodox Church, but if that was a thing for our small minority of black people, they'd probably end up joining the multitude of non-Chalcedonian east African churches, like the Ethiopian or Eritrean ones.

a seductive dream, but explain how you think this sort of thing could be accomplished.
eugenics programs were popular throughout the west up until the period around WWII made them unacceptable.
without strong social constraints, or a state to manifest these types of requirements, it's just a minority of individuals who would choose to do this of their own volition - and lacking an ideology to carry such a regimen beyond one generation, it is doomed to failure by not having strict enough requirements on children to follow their parents' footsteps

I joined the OCA about a year ago. Full of good, traditional people. There is one in my parish who leans a bit to the left, politically speaking, but his religion keeps him from buying into the modern day degeneracy of the left.

Little story:
>coffee hour (group lunch) every Sunday after the Divine Liturgy (the primary church service)
>one day older parishoner tells priest 'I saw a guy pushing a baby in a stroller at the store and stopped to adore the kid and asked if it was his. the man announced he was gay and that the man browsing shirts nearby was his boyfriend and that it was indeed their kid"
>"what do in a situation like that father?"
>priest takes drink of coffee
>"just pray for them"
>"especially for the kid"

Its an ethnoreligion more like Judaism than other forms of Christianity. You can join but you will never be seen as “Greek” by the adherents.

>revolt against the modern world
>picture depicts American suburbs in the mid 20th century

gonna go ahead and check these digits of truth

>/thread
>/based and redpilled

based

they are some fine digits, is it true though? I have the ethnic background belonging to one of the Orthodox churches, but I don't feel the need to select that one based on that fact.
one of the rare things about living here is that we have a dozen different Orthodox churches existing in close proximity to one another - a historically unique situation.
when they're all in communion with each other, I feel like I'd be depriving myself by not seeing what each particular national church's services are like.

The leader of the Russian? Church marched with Martin Luther King Jr.

Yes, the writers of New Testaments were mostly Greek. Orthodoxy is a Greek religion period. Just as Jews trace their ancestry to king David the Greeks trace their ancestry to Helen of Troy making them in a sense the chosen people but by the gods on my Olympus. Greeks are the true chosen people rapebaby or not

/thread

that was an Archbishop of the Greek Church in America - Archbishop Iakovos

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It implies you live like that rather than the modern world which is not like that.

How the hell do Americans grow up without reading the Bible in the first place? Don't you people have parents and grandparents?

from your post, I can see why ethnophyletism had to be condemned by an pan-Orthodox ecumenical Synod in 1872
>There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
>Gal. 3:28
formally, the Eastern Orthodox Church considers ethnic exclusivity to be a heresy.

Find your closest orthodox parish and talk to the priest. Make sure it has a young community

T. Orthodox Seminarian

my parents identified with the counterculture here in North America; and while they chose to baptize me, they didn't do any other thing pertaining to religion - whether teaching, encouraging, or discouraging. it was ignored from their side.
my grandparents either didn't speak English, or didn't talk about religion either.

Speaking of which, "The Dalai Lama, widely known for his compassionate views, has said that "too many" refugees are seeking asylum in Europe, according to German news.

Speaking to reporters in the de facto capital of Tibet's exiled government, he said: "Europe, for example Germany, cannot become an Arab country," in an interview with German newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung. "Germany is Germany. There are so many that in practice it becomes difficult."

It was an unexpected extension of sympathy for a sentiment that has found fertile ground among nationalist groups. "

and "The Tibetan spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama, said Wednesday that "Europe belongs to the Europeans" and that refugees should return to their native countries to rebuild them.

Speaking at a conference in Sweden's third-largest city of Malmo, home to a large immigrant population, the Dalai Lama -- who won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1989 -- said Europe was "morally responsible" for helping "a refugee really facing danger against their life".

"Receive them, help them, educate them... but ultimately they should develop their own country," said the 83-year-old Tibetan who fled the capital Lhasa in fear of his life after China poured troops into the region to crush an uprising.

"I think Europe belongs to the Europeans," he said, adding they should make clear to refugees that "they ultimately should rebuild their own country"."

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(((Nationalism is bad))))- (((Greek Orthodox Church)))

I'm gonna just convert to Paganism

thanks for the advice, future priest

>my grandparents either didn't speak English
If only there was Google Translate back then, amirite?

based Lama
I'm not against nationalism; I'm against people jealously guarding the Christian faith as though it belongs to a single ethnic group alone.
it is a position condemned by the canonical New Testament writings, and it's been formally condemned by the most recent Orthodox ecumenical synod as a heresy
believe what you want - but trying to keep out those that want to join Orthodoxy by adding an ethnicity requirement isn't just not required, but has been explicitly condemned.

Whatever flavor of Christianity you practice, stay the heck away from ANY form of mariology. Papists are cray with their adoration and thinly veiled worship of Mary.

seriously.
my parents didn't have a religious wedding, and those grandparents who didn't speak English apparently told them,
>it's not too late to have a real wedding
that said, they died before I was at the age where I could have asked them the sorts of questions about religion that would have helped me out.

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Good: traditions, customs, bad ass rituals
Bad: no benches(you'll have to stand all the mass, strong connections with diasporas, mass is in some ancient moonspeak which even priests can't understand well(f.e. in russian orthodoxy all masses are in oldslavic which is quite far from modern russian to br understandable)
Ugly: they may sanctify your car, house or for extra money even your cat.

>Reject the modern world
>accept a creation of modernity, the nuclear family, whose isolating power made it the shortest lived means by which to organize the family unit which is known to history

>no benches(you'll have to stand all the mass
I don't mind. the Russian service I attended didn't have pews, but had a single bench at the back wall, which a very frail old woman used, except for specific parts when she stood.
as far as I know, Catholic churches were the same way until the Protestant Reformation induced a memetic Counter-Reformation among the Catholics.
>strong connections with diasporas
why is this bad?

He's Canadian

I grew up in a greek orthadox church growing up. It is the main reason why I became as conservative/traditionalist as I am today. In the greek church, I had great friends, and the women were absolutely lovely. Although greeks are known for being a little clique like. At least the women, the men drink righteously.

I went to 2 different Catholic schools growing up. One was pretty solid, but Catholicism is just non-sensical. All the guys were atheists by 8th grade. The women are degenerate and the men are just silent. Jesuit education is the only worthwhile shit about Catholic education.

ultracucked. Like all Christcuckoldry.
The good.
Not as badly subverted by kikes yet. And they aren't pro-fag.
the bad
political influence is rampant, also eccesiology doesn't make any sense whatsoever. It's to the point where you have shit like Church A and Church B both mutually excommunicate each other for heresy but both Church A and B are in full communion with Church C. There is no catholicity whatsoever.
the ugly
Like all Christianity they are utterly bluepilled on race and see nothing wrong with ethnic kikes, or niggers for that matter. They will gladly march for nigger rights even when the Catholic and Protestant bishops would just stay home. Patriarch Kirill promotes muslim refugees.

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>but Catholicism is just non-sensical. All the guys were atheists by 8th grade
what were the main reasons for this?
>It's to the point where you have shit like Church A and Church B both mutually excommunicate each other for heresy but both Church A and B are in full communion with Church C
I've thought about this.
with the recent tensions between Patriarchs Kirill and Bartholomew over the Ukrainian situation, I've thought of joining the Antiochian church, just to not have to worry about being out of communion with any of the autocephalous churches.

This bench in the back is only for elder or sick parishioners, if you'd use it, it would be considered as disrespect. I consider it con for my ass, the magority of mass are about 1 hourin length, so it's really inconvinient to stay for so long, especially when you don't understand half of what priest says.

>Diasporas
I don't know is it really con and how people would treat a newcomer with different culture, but still you'll have to consider cultural differences.

>what were the main reasons for this?

catholicism is very literal and dogmatic, they don't take kindly to debate or any objections surrounding philosophical problems. Now consider that with a bunch of not so smart women teacher and a bunch of relatively smart rebellious young boys, and we kinda were just fed up with the bullshit.

dogmatics, for the sake of it, is not necessarily a bad position. But Catholics, in education and and the general public, don't make a great case for it as Kierkegaard or Karl Barth.

Greek orthodoxy understands dogamatics with a heavy emphasis on mystery, hence they are more in favor of meditative prayer. There is an atmosphere of mysticism surrounding the tradition.

>it's really inconvinient to stay for so long, especially when you don't understand half of what priest says
that's not a problem - if I join the Russian church I'd just get a copy of the liturgy that translates Old Church Slavonic into English.
>I don't know is it really con and how people would treat a newcomer with different culture, but still you'll have to consider cultural differences.
oh - now I understand what you meant by the diaspora issue now. I don't consider that to be a drawback - I'd just pay attention to what was considered acceptable and what wasn't.
thanks.

The good:
Nationalist, based, redpilled, doesn’t accept homosexuality, degeneracy, pedophilia, priests can marry, Greek church actively participate in Greek revolution against Muslim savages, believes in nuclear family, against abortion, isn’t liberal, liturgy performed in original Greek of New Testament.

We are the rock that stands strong against the tide of degeneracy. My wife is Catholic, but I christened all my three children in the Greek Orthodox Church.

>catholicism is very literal and dogmatic, they don't take kindly to debate or any objections surrounding philosophical problems.
answering genuine questions with "because the dogma says so" isn't satisfying to young people who have just reached the age of reason - no wonder that happened. I'm surprised the higher ups didn't catch wind of the fact that they were losing a large portion of their students each year (or if they did, that they chose not to correct their course...)
>My wife is Catholic, but I christened all my three children in the Greek Orthodox Church.
was there any conflict about this, or was she on the same page with you from the beginning?

Seraphim Rose, a modern American Orthodox Monk had a similar spiritual journey. Before converting he dabbled in east Asian religion and philosophy. Wrote a bunch of great books, you should check him out.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=nt-U6CMwwA0&feature=youtu.be

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seraphim_Rose

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You can not call it Nationalist when it is down with Mary Worship. Nope. If you're an Xtian, be it for belief alone. That the work was completed on the Cross. Anything else is crud.

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thanks - I've already listened to over 3 hours of his sermons, but looking again I see there are a few I haven't heard before.
he's really an excellent teacher - no wonder people talk about him so frequently

bump