What is up with bosnia? It had to be originally serb or croatian. So which one is it?
The modern bosniaks of today only stem their identity from being muslim. But what were they before? Christian bogumules? But what ethnicity? This is a big deal in the balkans, and frankly, bosnia shouldn't even exist, like most inorganic states in the balkans, would a split solution between croats and serbs work?
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Didn't they all lose their identities when they got turked?
Majority of the West Balkans were Muslim Bosniaks. They were all genocided and relocated to Turkey. Turkey has more Bosniaks than Bosnia now.
Todays Serbs are just slavified Balkanites.
genetically l have seen no evidence for serbs getting turks, macedonians, bulgarians, and greeks probably have some turkic dna from turkish communities in their country. Croats are obviously not mixed, but maybe bosniaks are due to being muslim.
the question is what were they before.
bump
They were Balkanites. Very simple.
All this talk about they wuz Illyrians and shieet, they are proto-Slavic is bullshit, even the claim that they are turkish rapebabies is bullshit too.
Serbs, Croats, Bosniaks all look the same. Go to Austria and you notice this (there a tons of them here). The only thing they separate is religion and misguided nationalism.
but you do understand that they come from different tribes right? they aren't the same
They lived in the same area and they look very similar. Also they have the same mentality. It's fair to say, they are the same people.
Western history is full of myths masquerading as facts. And it influenced that type of nationalism that completely ruined the Balkans now. Claiming that everything Christian is Indo-Germanic and everything Muslim is Mongol led to that type of war-torn shithole that the Balkan is today.
bosnian nobles were descendants of serbian and croatian royalty and were mostly catholic.
also on the map you posted you can see towns of bobovac and sutiska
these 2 were fortified towns where bosnian kings lived and until 1990s population of this towns was 100% croat catholics
yes but that doesn't mean that is where croats always lived. And croats are pretty mixed with serbs in the dalmatians, almost half of the croatian coast used to be populated by serbs.
but genetically they are different, a french dude and a german look the same but they are still different.
>And croats are pretty mixed with serbs in the dalmatians, almost half of the croatian coast used to be populated by serbs.
not true
then how do you explain pagania?
>What is up with bosnia?
alot
>It had to be originally serb or croatian. So which one is it?
originally is subjective when you compare the two of them or any other people and them
generally the first people who created some form of tribal society and mingled with the Greeks to the south were balkanite natives whose language, culture, religion and other things are lost to time.
bosnia proper was later conquered and ruled mostly by serbs in the north, east and center
in the west by croats
>The modern bosniaks of today only stem their identity from being muslim.
They will say they dont and anyone can be but that's them being the perceived majority saying that to siphon up everyone into a national identity (ex. British is above english, welsh, scotish and irish and anyone else can be that)
reality is you actually have to be a muslim or come from that background
>But what were they before?
bosniaks? they were anything that lived there or mixed there between the conquest of the slavs and the turk rule that converted to islam and stayed in bosnia
>Christian bogumules?
that is an orthodox heresy that preached church decentralization, even tho the orthodox crurch was more decentralized than the catholic
>But what ethnicity?
bosniak, muslim, will be the most common answer
>This is a big deal in the balkans, and frankly, bosnia shouldn't even exist, like most inorganic states in the balkans, would a split solution between croats and serbs work?
it would work centuries age where you could force people to do things or exile them, nowadays that option is invalid...
best solution is segregation and breakup by historic county lines
I notice with Bosnian(k)s here in Switzerland that they are more light-haired and have a lighter complexion than the average Serb or Croat, it might be bias because I know more Bosniaks than Serbs or Croats but maybe they wuz the ackshual illyrianz n shieet.
It was a vassal Duchy of Hungary and later its own Kingdom. That had a short personal union with Serbia. While it was a Duchy the local nobles generally interacted with the nobles of what's today's Croatia, while in the Kingdom period it interacted more with Serbia (as Hungary annexed what's present day Croatia).
>But what were they before? Christian bogumules? But what ethnicity?
The rural areas were mostly South Slavs. The urban areas were mainly mining towns and outposts settled with Saxon miners, traders and craftsmen.
Religion was a a mix of Christian heretics (bogumils, but also quite some hugenots, katars and similar European refugees) and Catholics in the urban areas and around monasteries and whatnot. Orthodoxy only started appearing during the Ottoman era.
>would a split solution between croats and serbs work?
Not at all. In 50 years there will be no more Croatians living here as demographics and migrations are not on their side. Likewise Bosnian Serb population of 1.5M suffers a net loss of about 10k every year due to demographics and emigration.
there are no real successor of the illyrians
what is the feritility rate of bosniaks?
if they are fair that means they are of eastern european descent and the only two recorded people of that descent to settle en mass in the west balkan are the serbs and croats
having those traits voids their claims to being illyrians n shiet since they have southern european phenotypes
also note that people of any of our countries who are from the south tend to be more med looking since the slavs settled mostly in the north
It`s a place where you go to rape tall women.
Stagnating or barely above replacement rate.
statistika.ba
gov payd sauce
still bosnia will probably split due to RS
every dinaric country is tall
They are Croats maybe some are Serbs but those are the ones closer to Serbia in the east of BIH
well, what reasoning do you have to believe that?
>In 50 years there will be no more Croatians living here
Keep dreaming Mujo
What are you?
29800 Entitet: RS -3.342
19800 Entitet: FBiH 2.049
according to the link i posted
i'm serbian
and you would like that bosnians were serbs?
for sure
>still bosnia will probably split due to RS
not likely. First off RS is split down the middle by Brčko Distrikt which is Bosniak majority (45%) with Croats making up further 20%, outnumbering Serbs 2:1. The demographics of BD favor Bosniaks over both Croats and Serbs, meaning the majority will only shift in favor of Bosniaks. Can't have a country that's entirely split in half.
The overall demographics trends favor Bosniaks over Serbs, as RS is losing 10k people each year, with the remaining populace becoming increasingly older. Situation isn't rosy among Bosniaks either, but it's infinitely better than with Serbs and especially Croats.
RS economy is around or just under Moldova tier, with government issuing bonds at ~10% yields and still having trouble finding buyers. The average salary is ~30% less than in Federation entity. The government sold all of the government owned companies like telecommunications, mines, power plants, etc. 9 of the 10 biggest companies are located in Federation while the single representative of the RS among top 10 companies (Optima Group) has more liabilities than collective assets meaning that, by law, it should have declared bankruptcy (the government doesn't allow it though). The economy and budget of RS is heavily subsidized by Federation via the VAT and other indirect taxes.
i'd like to know your answer about pagania bro
yes likely, serbs constantly push it and nothing demographically change for serbs in a long time. Mild stagnation in serb or bosniak populations are not going to affect the country in a while. And brcko isn't apart of RS, so l don't know why you bring that up, and bosniaks do not make up the majority there. Economically it doesn't matter much when RS will have serbia aiding them. Plus l have quite some doubts about what you say about the RS economy, overall you give off a very bias view on things it seems.
Serbs dont need whole Brčko, they only need northern part which has serbian majority
also how are you planning to return srpska and remove croats from hercegovina?
Pagania was catholic region
and since serbs claim that to be serb you have to be orthodox i think we know to whom pagania belongs
despite losing only 15.000 people during the whole 1992-1995 war, present day Croat population is 30% smaller compared to 20 years ago (Bosniak and Serb population is 9% and 11% smaller, respectively). Over the past 15 years average growth rate of Bosniak population was +0.76% whereas Croats had a -1.35% growth. This trend means that in 2070 there will only be ~255k Croats living in Bosnia, compared to ~570k Serbs and 2.5M Bosniaks.
no it wasn't, if it were i'd like proof. Because at first pagania was settled by pagan serbs whom didn't want to be baptised according to byzantine sources. So ethnically they are serbs that settled that region that got engulfed and most likely mixed and assimilated with croats. And if they did convert to catholicism, so what? Religion has nothing to do with inherent ethnicity, l can't turn into a croat if l become a catholic, l will always be a serb.
So yes, we both know whom pagania belongs to. To serbs
>serbs constantly push it and nothing demographically change for serbs in a long time
demographically RS loses about 4.5 people each year, with emigration taking a much bigger toll. over 50 years these things matter. just look at Kosovo.
>rtvbn.com
>And brcko isn't apart of RS, so l don't know why you bring that up
because it splits the RS down in half. BL would be on one side, Bijeljina on the other. how could a country function like that with no semblance of territorial compactness?
>bosniaks do not make up the majority there
1991
Bošnjaci 38.617 (44,1 %)
Hrvati 22.252 (25,4 %)
Srbi 18.128 (20,7 %)
Ostali 8.630 (9,8 %)
2013
Bošnjaci 35.381 (42,4 %)
Hrvati 17.252 (20,7 %)
Srbi 28.884 (34,6 %)
Ostali 1.999 (2,4 %)
atm Bosniaks and Croats make up ~ 63% of the population there with Bosniak population slightly growing, while Serb and Croat population shrinking.
>Economically it doesn't matter much when RS will have serbia aiding them
You are seriously misjudging Serbia's willingness or capability to provide financial aid to what would amount to 15% of its population, atop its own troubles.
>Plus l have quite some doubts about what you say about the RS economy, overall you give off a very bias view on things it seems.
I am indeed very biased, but I only shared objective, verifiable statistics. The only subjective part of my posts is belief that under these conditions dreams of independence will have to be put on hold.
Western BDBiH is almost completely Croat. Central Parts are almost completely Bosniak. Serb parts area almost entirely in the east. Entire Western part of BDBiH is bordered by Federation's Canton 2 (Posavski kanton) with it's majority Croat and Bosniak population centered around Orašje. As it stands there is no direct link between the two parts of RS that don't cross several Croat and Bosniak municipalities.
>return srpska and remove croats from hercegovina
if they go for it there is nothing stopping them. that said they can't go for it due to everything mentioned earlier. at least that's how I feel.
nobody is talking about removing Croats from Hercegovina though time won't be kind to Croat population of B&H
l do believe you base your beliefs on facts but the way you justify your view of the future of bosnian demographics with these facts seems very overly optimistic and favourable on your side when bosniak fetility has a slight edge. And of course serbia will be willing to bring RS apart of serbia, it's what the public want, it's what RS wants, and RS has a lot of beautiful forests and mountains. Which gives off a lot of potential for tourism.
And it doesn't matter too much about RS being split, there are other enclaves in the world that are able to function with the government, although harder, but it's by no means a reason to not pursue an RS merge.
>"White Serbia, called also Boiki, is the mythical homeland of the White Serbs (see Sorbs) from whom the medieval Serbs originate. While White Serbia is not explicitly mentioned, Boiki is mentioned in De Administrando Imperio, a 10th-century work by Byzantine Emperor Constantine VII (r. 913–959). According to it the "White Serbs" lived on the "other side of Turkey" (i.e. Hungary), in the area that they called "Boiki". The area adjacent to it was known as White Croatia, where the White Croats trace their origin"
why bother even research who is who south slavs and pretty much all salves are same people look at modern day montenegro milo trying so hard to make montenegro look diffrent from us that to the point it look sad just so he can maintain power with same principle croatia slovenia bosnia and macedonia within yugoslavia duing same thing dont get me wrong i dont thing every south slav is serbian my point is we are all same yugoslav people whether you like it or hate it
>nobody is talking about removing Croats from Hercegovina though time won't be kind to Croat population of B&H
>implying serbs and muslims wouldn't run to eu in flip flops if they had croatian documents
They were the true Croatians before converting to Islam.
if they had croatian documents they'd be running to germany like all croats and yugoslavs
what evidence do youhave for that?
It’s true, Muslim Bosnians are much whiter than Croats and gypsy Serbs
No, that would be Montenegro
Udri mujooooooo
No tard, Montenegrin peeps are pretty different from Serbs from Serbia. Remove the smelly albos too.
how are they different?
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Serbs in Serbia are dark and short kinda like your fellow brother
Typical Bosnian Muslims.
but they both have an average height of 183 cm from studies conducted in montenegro. I doubt either are darker than the other as well
*conducted in montenegro and serbia
Lmfaooooo
Take djokovic, he’s actually Montenegrin right? He looks nothing like the Serbs from Serbia
How tall are you user?
They were probably a blend of Serbs and Croats, became muslims because of reduced taxes in the Ottoman empire
Do Bosnians view themselves as racially superior to arabs and persians? I mean you have to right, your actually white which is weird as fuck for a muslim
i'm 193 or 194. Even though my mother and father is short which is really weird. I was basically tallest in my family since l was 15, literally. Why ask anyway?
Djokovic's father is a serbian kosovar, don't know about his mother, l doubt he is montenegrin, if he were l would have known by now
There’s a Bosnian mosque, and a few Brian’s I know never allow Arabs to pry in there.