The holocaust

Kek

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Sounds about right. Most Jewish (non-natural) deaths under German occupation were the result of the Einsatzgruppen activities and local pogroms. The fabled concentration camps were a total sideshow from a numbers point of view. Camp deaths were mostly due to disease and malnutrition once supply logistics were disrupted by Allied bombing.

Around 1 million with the overwhelming majority dying of disease, the rest being killed as partisans. I’m sure some were killed because they were Jews, but that number is probably in the ten or twenty thousands not millions.

STOP COMPARING HITLER TO DONALD. They are NOT the same!

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>If it's not 6 Million what's the real number
0

>and what's the evidence it's not that number
holocausthandbooks.com/

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i like to keep this handy for you retards when you come here

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is there any more sauce on those images?

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Let's be sensible about this. He might be a truly neutral party interested in finding the truth. There's no need to be hostile. Especially considering the fact that this information is suppressed.

They are internal Red Cross International Tracing Service Numbers. They are numbers of persons traced at the request of relatives to those camps through the very limited camp documents that the Red Cross now have

Hence they go up every year. Also haebce they only mention a few camps, and do not emergence Treblinka or Belzec or Sobibor, which were major extermination sites, and only reference a few tens of thousands of deaths at Auschwitz

At Auschwitz they have the camp records for Camp 1, for about 20 months of the four years. Camp one held 20k capacity. In those 20 months over 73k died. They have no records for the much larger camps 2 and 3 plus dozens of small sub camps. No records of those killed on arrival, not entered into the slave system.

You will note that despite having over 73k death certificates, the infographic above only claims fewer than 50 killed as a total in Auschwitz. That is because the list is not a death total, just a total of persons traced on request.

This is in other words, not a total of deaths, nor of Jewish deaths, or of anything, other then number of people that the Red Cross was asked to trace and did so, from very limited records

Deniers are liars, and say stupid shit

But that isn’t how it works.

You are comparing ritual funeral practice in coffins to animal carcass disposal.

Comparing going from cold to cold with one corpse to average time for multiple corpses in pre heated ovens never allowed to cool.

This is deceptive and a lie.

I don't know what to believe anymore. I used to believe the holocaust was real, then I believed it was fake. Them my sister comes home preaching that the world is flat and that deamons live in our christmas tree because it's paigan symbolism, and it made me realize how many different groups are making convincing arguments for bulshit like this in an attempt to rewrite history to suit their modern pollitical beliefs.
I don't think I can trust anything anyone says anymore. Evidence can always be manipulated, or they could be leaving something out.
Unless someday I become so interested in the holocaust that I feel the need to thouroughlg investigate what happened, my answer is that I don't know, and I'm fine eith that. I'm done jumping on political bandwagon's to support movements I know absolutely nothing about.

Pity that the facts are that millions died in the camps in 1942 to 44 before allied bombing had any effect...

Lol, you posted a Pol meme...

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Based and Redpilled

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So the three million Polish Jews who died.... 98% of all Polish Jews... to really proportional (less than 5% of non Jewish Poles died in the same period) and of course, three times your ridiculously low figure...

You really should do some fact checking before spouting such nonsense

I get the impression you would be able to make up a story for everything.

So go on then,
that one is hanging there unopposed.

Actually, quite a number of bodies have been proven to have been gassed, and the ash and bone fragments equivalent to millions of bodies have been found.

Your ignorance is not an argument

Yes it is.

Just because you can’t count to six does not mean it is impossible

lol what was convincing about the flat earth or demons living in your Christmas tree

What a fucking dumb false equivalency and red herring. That has nothing at all to do with whether the Holocaust happened in the way we have been taught.

No,it didn’t

No one ever took the Soviet figures seriously. Also the sovits 45 million was not Jews - it was people, mainly soviet POWs - they never said it was all Jews.

Same for their claims of millions at Madjanek - to Jews, others people.

You should really do some research

>4 million
OY VEY I'm tracking your IP holocaust denial is ILLEGAL in Germany

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>Bone equivalent of millions

Shut the fuck up, you faggot.

It’s been mathematically proven to be an impossibility (by Jews as well) and their newest claims make it even more fucking laughable.

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No. Do some research - the Red Cross have debunked the lie and said it is a lie. They have repeatedly said they do it have numbers, they have some very limited part records from a few camps, and those documents in the picture are not death totals. They even testified to that at The Zundel trial - he was spreading the lie. The Red Cross called him a liar in court.

Funny thing is deniers only quote the bit where they agreed that those figures were quoted accurately - not the bit where they say they are not death totals

But if you don’t believe me look it up.

The deniers lie. Always.

>Actually, quite a number of bodies have been proven to have been gassed
Name one

Did you even read the quoted image?

Pathetic.

Easier to bury your head in the sand.

Please show us this math.

Because the census figures show it clearly happened.

Inb4 World Lamanc lie. (American world almanac printed 1939 data until 1949 as it had no updates, so liar deniers claim this shows not a single Jews died)

The names of over sixty are recorded as gassed to provide specimens for a museum of extinct races that ahimmler planned - recently found in a university lab in France I think.

I broadly sympathise, and despair of ever being able to make complete judgements about all manner of contentious topics, but certain things are enough in this case: It is criminalised to think a certain way about this issue. Says it all, really.
Also, if you've ever cremated a frail old woman, you'd be amazed how much ash even a petite human produces. The fairytale promoters hate when we start doing basic mathematics for volume based on their absurd numbers.

Ah, and if you were a murderous fanatic in control of a super efficient and ordered killing machine of a state, would you not complete any genocide you'd set your mind to in a matter of months?

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>a museum of extinct races
Ekh, one day...

Did you? Urged seventy years? But dated in the 1970s and 80 and 90s, with increasing numbers each decade? Because more people died at Auschwitz in the 1980s?

No because more people were traced on demand from relatives.

Your idiotic misinterpretation of figures the Red Cross has repeatedly explained is the pathetic one.

Oh look the American Lamanac lie

Like clockwork

You are looking at the wrong image. I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it's not intentional ignorance since you can't explain the questions raised in it.

This thread is very offensive. You all should be forced to have 1 minute of silence for every victim of this tragedy.

Maybe 11 years without talking will change your tune.

Nothing was convincing to me, but it clearly was to her, and that's the type of shit I've seen guys preaching on here, so I'm pretty sure this site is where she gets all of her crazy views. Anyways, her wholeheartedly buying into that shit because it suits her preexisting political agenda was like looking in a mirror to me. It got me thinking about the Holohoax stuff I believed in and made me realize I didn't know what I was talking about and that I really just believe it because it meshes well with my views on fascism.
I'm not saying it happened in the way weve been taught. Intuitively I would say that it almost definitely did not occur the way we are told, simply based on the fact that people have been jailed for holocaust denial. All I'm saying is that I personally do not know enough on the subject to make a total assessment.

The ash from a million people would make a pile ten feet deep the size of six tennis courts. That is the fact of the numbers.

That isn’t very big. It isn’t a mountain, it isn’t even a hill. It is the size of three Olympic swimming pools.

The three 25 by 20 by 8 metre deep pits at Treblinka are more than large enough to hold the fewer than a million killed there. The similar sized pits at Sobibor and Belzec would also do the job.

There is no shortage of ash. (And Auschwitz solid bone ash by the ton to fertiliser makers...)

Hoho! Funny thing is, the denial stuff is just another part of keeping the whole phenomenon going. A fresh bit of scandal every now and then is a godsend for those working in this industry, keeping it "relevant".

You are a credulous idiot if you can be convinced of anything.

Examine the evidence for yourself and come to an informed conclusion.

Refs Which is exactly what I was talking about so what do you mean by What image are you talking about?

It's not fake, but I am fairly sure that it is wilfully misrepresented for political ends and that there is an going campaign to stifle all serious historical enquiry.

The one I linked to you. Here it is again:

Don't they give the JIDF any training in how Jow Forums works?

Stalin killed 20 million and Mao possibly 80 million but who you kill and why you do it makes you (((bad)))

Oh and the diesel lie (all the technical staff who maintained the engines said they were petrol driven, only non eyewitness say diesel) and the Mattogno how much coke I took lie - from a man who simply ignored the papers by the manufacturer which gave the exact number of corpses they could burn and how much coke it takes, and just made up shit with numbers taken out of his ass.

The manufacturers said they could burn 4756 a day at Auschwitz alone. That is more than a million a year. They only burned about a million in four years.

Mattogno says they couldn’t do 200 a day...

ah. I was replying to your unwarranted implication that I had made up a story about the Red Cross - which is untrue.

The 21 questions Gish Gallop...

Ok let me look at it.

>make a conclusion
He did dipshit

>Intuitively I would say that it almost definitely did not occur the way we are told; I personally do not know enough on the subject to make a total assessment.

Nice reading comprehension niggershit, you are almost as bad as that french jew that takes the "first hand accounts" of jews as fact when they describe a petrol engine as being used to gas heeb rats in Treblinka and Belzec.

A combustion engine with moving parts, that would require modification to run dirty, and uses scarce resources (petrol) to ineffectively produce 7000ppm MAXIMUM of carbon monoxide. Meanwhile the wood gas generator, that was sitting on the back of 500,000 cars during that era, had no moving parts, had virtually no maintenance by comparison, ran on wood, and produced 200000ppm (20% bv).

Somehow Nazi's are magical efficient super killers on one hand, but they are the dumbest bunch of mongoloids ever if you take written accounts from jews as truth.

Just because someone said it doesn't make it true. A jew saying it makes it even less likely to be true. That they are trying to revive it again nowadays is extremely suspect. I'm sure you take a Muslim's word for it that they are the religion of peace as well.

lowtechmagazine.com/2010/01/wood-gas-cars.html

The real number was 6 gorillion and if you question that you're going to prison you filthy goy.
cbc.ca/news/world/british-historian-sentenced-to-3-years-for-denying-holocaust-1.601100
nydailynews.com/news/world/nazi-grandma-prison-denying-holocaust-article-1.3978877

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Sounds like you decided what you wanted to believe first, and then looked for arguments to support it.

If your dumb sister being a flat earther can convince you that you are wrong about a completely different thing, then you were retarded to believe that thing in the first place, and retarded to stop believing in it. You are just retarded.

Wiesel was a slave. If you read the book IBM and the Holocaust (you can get a free pdf online) you would learn that the S S kept a very good track of slave labour, and used it for vital war work. They did not have t be highly skilled - a strong back and a shovel can be used to do work that frees up a good German to be I. The army.

Churchill does mention the mass murder of Jews. Eisenhower and de Gaulle wrote about their war - they were on the western front. It is like asking why some Japanese General didn’t mention it - they didn’t liberate any camps.
Auschwitz was a massive space labour camp (in which even in camp 1 which held only 20k people max, 73k died in Les than two years. So average life span was about six months. Isn’t that enough death ina camp?). But the extermination on arrival of millions of women and children and old people does not in any way mean that it could not also have been a slave labour camp mostly of the fit younger men. In addition, any camp that had slaves trained for skilled work would want a hospital to keep them healthy and prevent disruption of war vital production by disease. Also camp brothels and other rewards were not for Jews - nazis didn’t allow Jews to fuck non Jews.

Why did they round them up - it was a major war aim. Also cheap slaves. The first thing they did was run a census to identify them and then corral them and then kill them, in every country. They also pressured allies and satellite states to do the same. Romanians killed 250,000 Jews without German help - counted in the holocaust. But ridding Europe of Jews was a major war aim.

>your dumb sister can convince you
God you are projecting so hard. Are you missing the point on purpose Mukmahud? The point was that in her insanity he recognized the fallibility of his own knowledge and its origins, his own lack of mastery. He progressed beyond the point of "thinking he was a master" and onward to the next phase. Knowing just enough to recognize his lack of expertise to make a concrete opinion. However he has enough exposure and experience to say with relative (NOT PERFECT) certainly that "it didn't happen the way they said it did."

I'm not sure what is so hard for you to understand about this. Do you think you are an expert of some sort? If you do I suggest you read about the Kruger Dunning experiments, you seem to be pic related. A total dunce.

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>But the extermination on arrival of millions of women and children and old people does not in any way mean that it could not also have been a slave labour camp mostly of the fit younger men

That is completely illogical. If their goal is the extermination of the Jews, then you want to kill the young fit men first. They are the most able to fight back. Indeed, when Nazis were executing Jews with guns, they killed the men first before the women and children for that reason.

If they really wanted to exterminate them, why invest large sums of money in transporting them large distances and keeping them alive for years in camps, in which they played sports and played instruments?

The pictures of piles of dead bodies show people that died of starvation and typhus (the method of which of controlling was delousing via zyklon B). This was due to German supply lines being cut.

Sorry, but there is no doubt that he is retarded.

By all means, recognise the limitations of your knowledge.

But don't declare something as unknowable just because your sister is a flat earther who thinks demons live in the Christmas tree.

5 - there are thousands of documents that point to the holocaust. There is not a copy of a Fuhrer order saying “kill jews” but wouldn’t that be the first paper to shred? Lots of diaries,
Eaters and testimony that say he knew, and he approved, and that orders were given by Himmler with his approval.

6 the soviet estimates were never the figure used to calculate the total. If you add all the soviet numbers you get over 20 million. And they were never numbers of Jews. The western historians and census takers had established the figure for Jews at about 5.5 to maybe about 6 million by the early 1950s. The change in. Umber at Auschwitz in the 1990s was to reflect the reality- but that does not change the totals established by census data and other researchers.
7 the holfe telegram. Also, even in Nazi germany, openly saying you were mass murdering people would have caused some comment.
8 this just isn’t true. The camp was spread over miles of farmland and small hills. The pits were On a raised portion of the camp
9 is also not true. Not only is there compelling forensic evidence for the gas chambers at Auschwitz, it also at Malthausen, and the one at Dachau - although Dachau may not have been used. The snide suggestion that because they built them in Poland (where they had over three million Jews to kill, plus good rail links to bring in more form the rest of Europe and it was isolated and easy to conceal the crime) this was somehow all soviet lies is unwarranted

>9
What is your explanation for backtracking on the lie?

The lie wouldn't have held up in camps that the allies could examine properly.

>If it's not 6 Million what's the real number and what's the evidence it's not that number
Understand the holohoax psyop and what jews have done to the West post-WW2.

Read through this thread, it's all there...

archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/193822743/

archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/193822743/

archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/193822743/

Redpilling normies is the ONLY battle that matters now. Redpill them and the rest will work itself out.

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>hospitals to keep slaves alive
yeah no, with an infinite amount of slaves you just execute them and move on

>mostly young men
Plenty of pictures of women, children, etc in those camps, as well as "first hand accounts" refuting the conditions you are talking about. Which jew are we to believe?

I will agree he sounds like he has an IQ approximating a warm day in San Diego if his beliefs are shaken so easily, but I am still pretty sure you are being purposefully obtuse in not getting the underlying point.

>wouldn’t that be the first paper to shred?

Then you have the order that says shred everything?

Less than 300,000.

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Some weird formatting issues here. Shills just can't keep up with the demand these days.

Zyklon was only used at Auschwitz. And the later gas chambers were purposely built with ventilation systems and witnesses say that they used protection gear. So it is incorrect to suggest that they could not have done it. Also they used slaves to do the dirty work - had they been accidentally gassed p when handling the bodies, that was not a big deal. But if you read the manufacturers instructions for using Zyklon b (find them on Faurissons blog site) it is clear (despite his hysterical ranting and misquoting) that it could easily have been done in the way described.
11 soap was a lie spread by the Germans themselves. It is still unproven that there was a lampshade, it it was also a rumour the Germans spread, along with the riding breeches story. These were current stories among the German guards. They are not Jewish invented
12. No one was sent to the gallows for killing with steam or electric grids or atomic death rays. Questions were raised at Nuremberg about early reports by spies that contained those false reports - one report actually said that they didn’t know what was being used, it it was either gas or steam or exhaust fumes (two,out of three correct). It the steam. Option was dismissed by 1946, as was the electric grid idea. These were early rumour- the sort of thing you would expect. Not surprising, and dismissed as soon as the camps were examined. So what?
There is no 13?

Wiesel is a
self publicist and not an honest man - but thegas chambers were at sites removed from the labour camp. He may have been miles away at all times, and never saw them.
15 is not true, it just feels like it. I agree too many seem to say that - but people often do embellish stories. This is regrettable, it,the documented stuff, the archaeological evidence and he early reports, letters diaries, testimony a the time, is unequivocal

16 this is the claim made by a non archaeologist who didn’t know how to use the equipment and never published the data. He was also a known denier before hand. His claims are ludicrous. They contradict everything known about the Treblinka Gold Rush, and all previous and subsequent examination of the site. R3cent ext naive surveys and digs by real archaeologists have utterly destroyed the liar Krege. Anyone still quoting this junk report is seriously questionable themselves - have they just not done research or are they deliberately using a debunked pack of lies to deceive people?

17 is again just false. It is selective quoting from ignorant people. The documentary evidence, archaeological evidence, photographs and massive consisten eyewitness testimony is compelling. Ignorance of that is not an argument
18 because it is always associated with the expressed desire to do it again, or that it should have happened. Denial is always associated with calls for mass murder in the future. It is an attempt to exonerate criminals against humanity and encourage new crimes.
19. Again false. None of the “leading revisionists” are first rate, or hold advanced degrees in relevant subjects from world leading universities. (Irving - no degree, not a historian, Rudolf, not an historian, Faurisson not an historian, name a top revisionist witha top degree)
20. Because as time passes then people forget the horrors? It is sad that no one now remembers the horrors of the civil war, or slavery. It will be sad when ignorance about the slavery, torture, mass murder, brutality, discrimination and inhumanity of the Nazis are forgotten
21 is again. It entirely true, it the story of the smoke was initially a rather dark humoured joke. Based on the idea that fat Hungarian peasants would burn better than wizened emaciated Greeks from concentration camps. It is gallows humour. That some have reported it as real, is just stupid.

there you go
where did 2.5 gorillion dissapear all of a sudden?

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You are the dumb shit

Yes wood gas has a higher CO content, but it is also hydrogen rich and highly explosive

You would blow up the building witha a single spark before you gassed the people. It is totally unsuitable for gassing people.

Petrol exhaust works, quickly and safely for the observers without any danger of explosion

You are not a chemist are you? Haven’t thought. Through have you?

The idea that an old soviet tank engine was used to gas hundreds of thousands is ludicrous.

Have half million Hungarian Jews sent to camp on trains. Have huge factories needing labour and farms. Sensible Nazi - kill the women and children, as useless eaters, keep fit labourers, but keep them hungry and let them die through labour over six months.

It not the really skilled ones and th useful ones - we need them for war effort so keep them alive for years.. (also having the orchestra play as the women march off to die keeps them from suspecting they are being taken to be killed and helps to keep the crowd from rioting when they split up the men and women)

You. Let’s kill all the useful labour and keep the kids and feed them

Yes, you are that smart

Plus, gathering Jews (who are all enemy agents, all enemy combatant as far as Nazis concerned) and getting them out of society is a major war aim. Killing them becomes a major war aim.

And the kids in the camps - not in all camps. No kids survived Sobibor or Treblinka or Belzec or Madjenak.

Kids were all killed at Auschwitz until late in 1944. The few that were survivors there were late arrivals.

You should know this stuff. Ignorance is not an argument

the evidence says its 900k

Dude, do you know the number of surivors even alive today? They would have all been children at the time.

I think that the camps were all so appealing that it was easy to believe in 1946 that they were all deliberate mass murder centres. The separation of camps into “death camps” and work camps and concentration camps is actually pretty blurr. When it energed that some camps were truly horrific in scale of deaths - the Operation Rhienhardt camps - with the means of mass murder as their primary reason for existence - then the idea that those were death camps and the others merely places of horrific deliberate mass death but not on an industrial scale so not “Death Camps” arose.

Auschwitz of. Purse was both a
About camp - slave labour - and a place of mass industrial killing. So that blurs it as well. It a place like Sachsenhausen, or Malthausen, were tens of thousands of people died, isn’t a death camp witha. Capital D C, - really? Places were ten thousand people were shot, just ordinary camps?

I think the whole nomenclature issue is crazy.

In comparison in the American camps for the Japanese the death rate was about 1% of the death rate in the Nazi camps. Even the worst aamerican camp had a far lower death rate than the Rey best Nazi one.

The real number is 5.7 million.

People die in war. The Jews were being EVICTED but in the process War caused famine. The lack of food for the entire nation hurt everyone increase including anyone in prisons. The concentration camps were not execute and turn Jews into dust even though I wish they had. My grandmother was a Nazi and my grandfather fought for the United States in World War II. When the war ended my grandfather met my grandmother and brought her back to United States the Midwest specifically where they raise the family. My grandmother told me all about what happened over there during the war in the mass execution of Jews is not one of them. She never believed the story and always told me that Victors write the history books. I trust my family and my grandmother she has no reason to lie to me.

Some of them went into gas chambers multiple times and somehow survived. It's all very silly but cannot ever be questioned under threat of incarceration and ostracism from society

>not a Voltaire quote
doesn't matter, and most likely it was intentionally associated with a pedophile to discredit what is a very powerful concept

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No if you have vital specialist tasks that take months to train people to do, you keep a very good track of people using IBM punch cards, and you try not to kill them, as it fucks up the war effort. Even if they are Jews. You kill this kids of the peasants that arrive everyday but you keep your top chemistry research guys in very comfy conditions with nice research labs.

Also, again, Auschwitz was not just for Jews. Tens of thousands of non Jews went there.

Also not many accounts refuting - source for that claim?

>When it energed that some camps were truly horrific in scale of deaths - the Operation Rhienhardt camps

Emerged through what?

Nothing is left of them.

Please show us this math.

over 450k. up to 6mill.

Oh look the Red Cross Lie again

Third time in the same thread.

Dumb as a box of rocks...

Pure bullshit. Get educated and read a book. E.g. „Debating the Holocaust“ where you will learn about both sides, the believers and the revisionist.

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Why is Treblinka and Sobibor and Belzecnot on this list?

Of coruse evrythign is a lie that contradicts your story.

Do you know the number of survivors even alive today? They would have all been children at the time.

When did I declare that it's unknowable? I never even implied such a thing. I said I personally do not have sufficient information to make a complete assessment. Having the internet flooded with contradicting, and fraudulent information on the matter makes coming to a complete conclusion about what happened much harder than it should be.
The purpose of the annecdote about my sister was that her willingness to jump onto conspiracy theory bandwagons forced me to address my own credulity in relation to Holocaust denial.
I'm not talking about the entire thing, just a lot of the claims I see on here, and that Ive seen in The Greatest Story Never Told. A lot of the claims made on both sides are just word of mouth or speculation, and inevitably lead to he said she said arguments whenever they are brought up. For every piece of evidence I see on here, there is someone on the left who can explain why that evidence is manufactured, and vice versa. It makes it hard to know what you can and cannot take as fact. In the past I would naturally lean towards believing the argument of the Holocaust deniers, but my sister's insanity has made me realize what happens when you prioritize political loyalties above the search for truth.
That is all I'm trying to say, I dont know why you're getting so pissed off about it.

Tell us the number of germans that were killed between ‘45 and ‘49 and I will consider discussing the holocaust

i propose dumbing the holohoax down, full
retard style, six trillion fake jew kike amalekites
died and hitler used weed to kill them.

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Why indeed

Yes. The people who maintained the engine said it was a German truck engine, petrol driven

The Russian tank engine story is ludicrous and false.

Glad you agree

that's me on the top and bottom right.

in holocaust mode, i could probably get 8-10 bodies into 1 of those singles crematoriums and have them all bones within maybe 2.5 hour.
and dust within 3.

i used to do that as a job when i was a kid.
just with piles of animals, instead of people..

even had mass graves at that place, again, animals, not people.

but it's similar. concept.. and practice really.
seeing how they treated them like stock/animals.