Why orthodox jews rejects Israel and supports Palestine?

I know you’re a troll, but I’m replying to educate the non-troll wanderers. Orthodox Jews are the most ardent zionists. Pew research polling shows they support Israel at the highest rates. There is a small cult in Brooklyn who opposes Israel, but this is not representative of the entire community as they only compose less than 10000 or so.

Many Jews aren't aware of these things, and are raised to think that they have no choice but to support the Zionist state.

The path to solving many of the world's problems begins with explaining to Jews themselves that Zionism is a subversive political ideology (first and foremost to world Jewry) and that Jews themselves will ultimately suffer the most as a result of the world's awakening to these facts.

youtube.com/watch?v=0mbH6UWAHMw

Good summary to answer this question from Neturei Karta, Jews Against Zionism

nkusa.org/

nkusa.org/aboutus/zionism/opposition.cfm

"WHY ORTHODOX JEWS ARE OPPOSED TO A ZIONIST STATE"

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basado y rojopillado

1) What is "The People of Israel" ?

The People of Israel have existed for thousands of years.
They have their own particular, essential nature.
The Torah is the source of their essential nature.
Without Torah and Faith there is no People of Israel.
Whoever denies the Torah and the Faith is no longer part of the People of Israel.
The purpose of the People of Israel in this world is Divine Service.
Their salvation is occupation in Divine Service.
2) What is Zionism?

Zionism is a relatively new thing.
It has only existed for a century.
Zionism redefines the true essential nature of the People of Israel, and substitutes for it a completely contradictory and opposite character - a materialistic worldly nation.
Their misfortune is lack of what other nations possess, i.e. a state and army.
Their salvation is possession of a state and army etc.
This is clearly spelled out in the circles of Zionist thought, and among the leaders of the Zionist State, that through changing the nature and character of the People of Israel and by changing their way of thinking they can set before the People of Israel "their salvation" -- a state and an army.

The People of Israel oppose the so-called "State of Israel" for four reasons:

FIRST -- The so-called "State of Israel" is diametrically opposed and completely contradictory to the true essence and foundation of the People of Israel, as is explained above. The only time that the People of Israel were permitted to have a state was two thousand years ago when the glory of the creator was upon us, and likewise in the future when the glory of the creator will once more be revealed, and the whole world will serve Him, then He Himself (without any human effort or force of arms) will grant us a kingdom founded on Divine Service. However, a worldly state, like those possessed by other peoples, is contradictory to the true essence of the People of Israel. Whoever calls this the salvation of Israel shows that he denies the essence of the People of Israel, and substitutes another nature, a worldly materialistic nature, and therefore sets before them, a worldly materialistic "salvation," and the means of achieving this "salvation" is also worldly and materialistic i.e. to organize a land and army. However, the true salvation of the People of Israel is to draw close to the Creator. This is not done by organization and force of arms. Rather it is done by occupation to Torah and good deeds.

SECOND -- Because of all of this and other reasons the Torah forbids us to end the exile and establish a state and army until the Holy One, blessed He, in His Glory and Essence will redeem us. This is forbidden even if the state is conducted according to the law of the Torah because arising from the exile itself is forbidden, and we are required to remain under the rule of the nations of the world, as is explained in the book VAYOEL MOSHE. If we transgress this injunction, He will bring upon us (may we be spared) terrible punishment.

THIRD -- Aside from arising from exile, all the deeds of the Zionists are diametrically opposed to the Faith and the Torah. Because the foundation of the Faith and Torah of Israel is that the Torah was revealed from heaven, and there is reward for those who obey it and punishment for those who transgress it. The entire People of Israel is required to obey the Torah, and whoever doesn't want to, ceases to be part of the congregation of Israel.

FOURTH -- Aside from the fact that they themselves do not obey the Torah they do everything they can to prevent anyone they get under their power from fulfilling the commands of the Torah, the claims to freedom of religion are lies. They fight with all of their strength to destroy the Faith of Israel.

he Zionists claim that they are the saviors of Israel, but this is refuted by twelve things:

FIRST -- If one contemplates the two thousand years of our exile, take any hundred years even the hardest, one will not find as much suffering, bloodshed, and catastrophes for the People of Israel in the period of the Zionists, and it is known that most of the suffering of this century was caused by the Zionists, as our Rabbis warned us would be the case.

SECOND -- It is openly stated in books written by the founders of Zionism that the means by which they planned to establish a state was by instigating anti-Semitism, and undermining the security of the Jews in all the lands of the world, until they would be forced to flee to their state. And thus they did - They intentionally infuriated the German people and fanned the flames of Nazi hatred, and they helped the Nazis, with trickery and deceit, to take whole Jewish communities off to the concentration camps, and the Zionists themselves admit this. (See the books Perfidy, Min Hameitzor, etc.). The Zionists continue to practice this strategy today. They incite anti-Semitism and then they present themselves as the "saviors". Here are two replies given by Leaders of the Zionists during World War II, when they were asked for money to help ransom Jews from the Nazis. Greenbaum said "One cow in Palestine is worth more than all the Jews in Poland." (G-d forbid).
Weitzman said, "The most important part of the Jewish people is already in the land (of Israel) and those who are left, are unimportant" (May we be spared).

THIRD -- We see that most of world Jewry lives in security and under good physical conditions, and have no desire to go live in the Zionist State. Whereas many people have left the Zionist State to live under better conditions in other lands.

FOURTH -- The Zionists make a great deal of propaganda to induce people to immigrate to their state. If their state is so beneficial why do they have to make so much propaganda

FIFTH -- Because nobody wants the Zionists to "save" them. The only way they can get immigrants is by promising poor people material benefits, and even then very few people respond.

SIXTH -- The Zionist State is always threatened by the dangers of war. Whereas the rest of world Jewry live in peace and security, (Except in a few places where the Zionists have undermined their security and fanned the flames of hatred)

SEVENTH -- The Zionist State could not continue to exist without economic support from Jews living outside of the Zionist State.

EIGHTH -- The Zionist State is on the verge of economic collapse, and their money is nearly worthless.

NINTH -- The Zionist State persecute all Jews who are loyal to their Faith.

TENTH -- They start wars that endanger the Jewish People, for the sake of their own political interests.

ELEVENTH - According to the Torah the path of safety is following ways of peace not starting fights with other nations, as the Zionists do.

TWELFTH -- Even if the Zionists could and would provide physical security it would be at the expense of our Faith and Our Torah the true People of Israel prefer death rather than life at such a cost.

It is therefore clear that Zionism is not the savior of the people of Israel. Rather it is their greatest misfortune.

Even though there are some observant Jews and rabbis, who approve of the Zionists, this is not the opinion of the Torah.

The Zionists have enough control over the American news media to make sure that only their side of the story is heard.

They make it look like all Jewry and their rabbis are Zionists, but this is false propaganda.

The most important Rabbis and the majority of religious Jewry are opposed to Zionism, but their voice is not heard because of Zionist control of American news media.

The Zionists terrorize everyone who speaks out against them.

That part of the Jewish masses which is fooled by Zionist propaganda puts pressure on their Rabbis not to speak out.

Between the terror and the pressure of the masses most of the Rabbis are prevented from speaking out.

We bring three testimonies of the true opinion of the Torah.

1) In the past two thousand years of the dangers and sufferings of exile not once did any of the Sages of Israel suggest that we make a state to protect ourselves. In every generation we had thousands of Sages well versed in the Torah.

2) We have thousands of legal work of Torah law that have been handed down to us by the Sages of all generations. Not once do we see a word suggesting the establishment of a state. What we do find is warnings against it.

3) The founders of Zionism were all atheists who denied the Torah. All the Torah Sages of that time opposed them and opposed Zionism, saying that Zionism would lead only to destruction.

However the true People of Israel will never change their nature or give up their Faith because of the strength the Creator gives them.

Zionism is a foreign growth in the body of the Jewish People. The end will be that it will rid itself of this foreign growth and remain pure.

Zionism has overcome the Jewish people by force, fraud and terror, but none of this will help them because the truth will always remain with the help of the Creator.

Zionism will not replace the Jewish People. The Jewish People will remain strong in their faith and the Zionist State will cease to exist.

It is therefore, our demand that the State that calls itself ISRAEL, should cease to exist. Since this won't be done, we demand that they cease to call themselves "Israel", because their entire being is in complete opposition to the true People of Israel. The true People of Israel deny them permission to call themselves by that name. The Zionist leaders have no right to set themselves up as the representatives and spokesmen of the true People of ISRAEL.

Since we know they will not fulfill this demand either we feel that at least we cry out the truth. The truth will always remain the truth. By no means or force can the truth be changed. Even if all the world would say that one and one is three, the truth will remain that one and one is two.

Let the truth be declared. The use of the Name "ISRAEL" by that State is a complete falsification. The People of Israel have nothing to do with that State. Zionism and its State have no share and no part in the true ISRAEL.

BUMP AGAINST ZIONISM

youtube.com/watch?v=vt6s8CAUtHw

No such luck?

BUMP FOR THE TRUTH

youtube.com/watch?v=3SX2MBj3vnU

BUMP AGAINST ZIONIST SHILLRY

youtube.com/watch?v=82oSr0sYBuc

I have probably been counter-Semitic enough that I will not be allowed to die a natural death but please explain to me how zionism differs from other peoples’ ideological or historical attachment to land much less manifest destiny in its original or current form.

It doesn't. The problem is hypocrisy. Why are they allowed to but everyone else is demonized (to the tune of billion-dollar military campaigns and multi-million dollar ad campaigns) for it?

fake jew kike amalekites reject other fake jew
kike amalekites whom are shemites or semites
so they can side with palestinians whom are
also shemite or semites hahahaha fuck off
with your fake fucking dichotomy.

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Jews always lived in Palestine, even under the Ottoman Turks. Zionism is a desire to rule over that land and furthermore to rule over all the land from the Nile to the Euphrates.

The point is that this movement directly contradicts the religion and still claims to represent the followers of that religion. The consequence is that when Israel does something wrong, all Jews get the blame (not kosher).

The term "Israel" stands for the Jewish people, not a physical territory. More zionist fraud.

>orthodox jews rejects Israel
But they're more than happy to accept welfare and refuse conscription and not work. Goddamm leeches.

Fair enough. They want to subvert and destroy others for doing what apparently comes naturally to virtually all people. While pretending to be friends and even patriots. That last bit seems to be the real distinction. But then isn’t all fair in war at least? What a disgusting world. Survival of the slimiest or at least slickest. The real war goes far beyond the physical. Of those remaining we are practically all rather guilty. The most honest, bravest and best of us die first.

Red Pill:

The term "chosen people" isn't a one way street - it means the Jews themselves have an obligation to God to study his teachings and be spiritual leaders to guide the goyim.

Zionism is a subversive movement meant to transform "Jews" from a religious group into a nation like any other.

What the fuck is Zionism anyway? I mean there's still moslems on Mount Tzion, even after the Six Day War, and it doesn't look like Jews are kicking them out in the next millennium.

This. Once their earthly messiah comes the Orthodox Jews will think Israel is kosher.

We had a messiah once. Jews tried to kill him. That didn't work, but it drove him off. Pity. He could have healed more people, taught us things and set things straight. But he was never seen again after the attempt on his life.

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As a non-troll wanderer, I'm conflicted because pretty much everyone here is saying orthodox Jews oppose Israel because Jews are not supposed to return to the Holy Land before the Messiah arrives, which does make sense. Could you provide sources or useful short readings so I can understand why they're wrong and orthodox Jews are actually "the most ardent Zionists"?

Short:
Jews -as of what you understand them to be today- are the SMALLEST splinter of all Israel.
Israel is for the Israelites so as long as Israel is only "jewish" -as of what people of today understand to be jews- there is plenty of people who havent returned home yet.

The Group of Israelites is soo much bigger*, than the group of Jews -as of what people of today understand to be jews.
*not necessarily quantitative (in actual numbers), but qualitative.

We apparently have a messiah who didn’t run off too but people often discount or forget him.

The Jews petitioned to have Jesus Christ crucified, and this was the sin that led to their eventual exile. #LookIntoIt

Pontius Pilate didn't want to crucify Jesus, but a crowd of Jesus-hating Jews petitioned for to be done.

"In all four gospel accounts, Pilate lobbies for Jesus to be spared his eventual fate of execution, and acquiesces only when the crowd refuses to relent. He thus seeks to avoid personal responsibility for the death of Jesus. In the Gospel of Matthew, Pilate washes his hands to show that he is not responsible for the execution of Jesus and reluctantly sends him to his death.[7] The Gospel of Mark, depicting Jesus as innocent of plotting against the Roman Empire, portrays Pilate as reluctant to execute him.[7] In the Gospel of Luke, Pilate not only agrees that Jesus did not conspire against Rome, but Herod Antipas, the tetrarch of Galilee, also finds nothing treasonable in Jesus' actions.[7] In the Gospel of John, Pilate states "I find no guilt in Him [Jesus]," and he asks the Jews if Jesus should be released from custody."

Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontius_Pilate

It's all explained here:

nkusa.org/aboutus/zionism/opposition.cfm?fbclid=IwAR3yp2LbUUQ_HLTgr8xF18OI12KypGl2jM3d3LZSpOQATZ9btSDZfoJbvAs

>I know you’re a troll, but I’m replying to educate the non-troll wanderers. Orthodox Jews are the most ardent zionists. Pew research polling shows they support Israel at the highest rates. There is a small cult in Brooklyn who opposes Israel, but this is not representative of the entire community as they only compose less than 10000 or so.
i remember being forced to read a book about hasidic and orthodox teens in new york in the 1940s. basically one supported israel and the other didn't. the one that didn't was portrayed as backwards like we view amish people and ultimately he supports israel at the end. the book was very pro israel and i don't recall palestine ever being mentioned. im pretty sure a jew wrote it.

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>Why orthodox jews rejects Israel and supports Palestine?

Because they know Palestinians have mostly Jew DNA and that the Israelis are mostly criminal Russians who are real SOB's with Khazar DNA.

No Israelite with a tiny bit of knowledge and guts, would become a muslim.
Eventho Talmud (after being kicked out of Israel) and Islam seem to be somewhat close friends lol.

Those are valid reasons, but that's not evidence of what most orthodox Jews believe. It's just the explanation that those who don't support Israel give for doing so. It's in the site's name ("Jews united against Zionism") that they don't represent all Jews but just precisely those who oppose Israel. Again not evidence.

>all Jews
Not all orthodox Jews I meant.

>Eventho Talmud (after being kicked out of Israel) and Islam seem to be somewhat close friends lol.
This. The Quran is basically a plagiarism of Tractate Sanhedrin. Muhammad's justification for fucking a 9-year old is the same as the Talmud's.

Attached: Sanhedrin 54b - Eng.jpg (3240x4320, 3.5M)

It depends on each Jewish sect's interpretation of The Three Oaths. This separates pro-Israel Zionists from the rest, even though many of the anti-Zionists still live there.

>This separates pro-Israel Zionists from the rest, even though many of the anti-Zionists still live there.
No good jews.

Attached: good jews debunked.png (1330x3610, 1.85M)

He is probably saying that Secular State of Israel ain't Jewish.

All Jews used to be against the establishment of a Jewish state. Zionism only became a thing in the late 1800s. Herzl the founder didn't even have his son circumsized. < fake jew

BUMP AGAINST APARTHEID

youtube.com/watch?v=c5G7xSfFdrQ

I hate these unreadable images so much.
I believe that. But it's still not evidence for the claim that "(most) orthodox Jews are not Zionists/oppose the Jewish State".

More would be openly anti-zionist if the zionist machine weren't so powerful

/thread

Behold, the dumbest thing ever written.

Purely opinion so far. So I assume the bunch of you are just pulling "facts" out of your asses. Which is ok, just don't expect anyone to believe you. Since you have no evidence supporting you, I'll default back to believing orthodox Jews actually love Israel as much as, or even more than, the average Jew does.

Why do they refuse to serve in the IDF then?

Because they know this....

Yajooj wa Majooj (Gog & Magog) In The Modern Age (The Hidden Khazar Empire)
youtube.com/watch?v=b8vaHLxhSfE

Take notice of where Magog is located on the map, same area where the Khazars Kingdom was located.

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