How ethical is it to create a clone army? Would it ever be a viable option?
How ethical is it to create a clone army? Would it ever be a viable option?
Dylan Jenkins
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Andrew Gomez
China has already done it, I can't tell the difference between them
Carter Taylor
Human cloning will take thousands of years to ever get that advanced. clone army vs droid army was a pretty crazy idea from george
Nathaniel Walker
>How ethical
depends on how developped and genuinely copied the clone are
I'd say clones like in Star Wars are unethical, since they clearly have something else than basic animalistic pulsions and desires. Just the fact that they can clearly see a greater-scope enemy instead of simply a momentary threat to their own could justify my position. They're basically very short-lived child soldiers.
>Viable
As long as you have the biomass for it. Otherwise, droids would be cheaper. The CIS got one right idea about droids, the problem is the majority of their forces aren't SBD but simple security droids the Trade Federation used ten to twenty years beforehand. Talk about outdated hardware.
Ryan Reed
Republic also Vietnamed their asses by establishing 'promising' veteran retirement homes.
Parker Foster
Republic was always shit anyway. Should have let the Confederacy secede anyway. Having less territory to administer would have done good for their bureaucracy, if not for their prestige.
Oliver Martinez
It would only be unethical if you can't care for them. What's the point of cloning a few thousand people if you can't feed, clothe or supply them with weapons. It's not really about if they have rights or should be considered equal or not but the simple fact a living organism no matter how artificial its creation should avoid being made for a purpose it can't fulfill which is what makes them special compared to a simple automaton or A.I even if they're just bio-drones. Healthy economy first, then cloning supersoldiers or normal soldiers or replacement bodies in case of death.
Julian Morris
>Human cloning will take thousands of years to ever get that advanced.
Tinfoil aside it's very easy to clone someone in a natural way without much invasive tech. The problem is it takes years for them to mature just like a normal human. It's like circular (in)breeding. The chances for defects aren't even that high compared to normal inbreeding and is no different than a normal human. Problem is like a normal human they reach maturity very slowly so it would take a minimum of a century to amass enough clones to make a difference.
You take twins and trough a special program make them breed and create more twins that look like the past twins so essentially the next female(s) related to those twins will have a higher chance to birth more people that have a very close genetic makeup thus even if there's an age difference or maternal the people are pretty much the same, clones.
Caleb Flores
The issue in cloning lies in telomeres. When you clone something, you're using the same telomere length as the doner and the child gets these, so apparently they shorten drastically during pregnancy. So your clone will have a drastically reduced lifespan.
Michael Baker
Ask Master Syfo Dias
Brody Gonzalez
>so apparently
also apparently
Lincoln Young
Pretty shit due to the fact that an engineered bioweapon could wipe out your force and leave you defenceless
Wyatt Wright
Unethical maybe, unholy definitely.
If you could create a clone, it should be possible to mold them into creatures that love war.
Chase Sanchez
it would be extremely viable, the neo-cohens would be able to wage war endlessly without the risk of earning the public’s ire in relation to casualties.
Parker Nelson
>Letting the CIS scum win
Nathaniel Morris
>Believing the Republic is a democracy and not a plutocratic (((Coruscant)))-led monopole on both economical distribution of power and political
I'm rooting for Palpatine either way, so either way I win at the end of the Clone Wars.
William Nguyen
This. Dooku was and will always be a political idealist, not a mass murderer! All those heinous crimes were either (((Republic))) propaganda or committed by the loose-screw cyborg of a Kaleesh Grievous!
Oliver Cruz
>Trade Federation becomes rich
>Republic trade routes in the Free Trade Zone has a piracy problem
>TF asks senate for help with pirates
>Senate says no
>TF makes their own army/navy to deal with it
>Senate responds by putting taxes on the FTZ
>angry TF blockade Naboo (at suggestion of Sheev) until tax is lifted
Trade Federation isn't free of guilt, but fuck the senate
Xavier Wilson
>So your clone will have a drastically reduced lifespan.
Which is why it's better to leave full-on replacement bodies for extreme situations that demand it. Even if a person doesn't have any siblings there should be ways to artificially create one from their existing DNA then do the same procedure. The person who desires it will have died or if not will be euthanized to allow their essence to be imbued in a new healthy body for the next 20 years unless there's cybernetics involved to temporarily stop any degeneration in case they can't wait for another life-span(being born again and having to go trough childhood).
To perfect rebirth cloning it would mean technology has to evolve a lot but normal cloning is simple. It's been passed down in biological memory/instinct of our species but we just never needed to indulge in it since normal breeding has always been better in comparison plus identical twins were rare, even more so twins who actually have qualities that we would want replicated(e.g for soldiers).
By the time they're 18 they can graduate and by 20 they would've died in action anyway before the degeneration claimed them. This is why it's bad to clone people since if there's an excess of clones but nothing for them to do then it would've been a waste of resources and their life-span, training or experience.
by the way 20 is when telomere based degeneration happens. From 20 on wards they start to degenerate. Mental illness mostly and 30% physical defects.
Adam Campbell
>he isn't basing real world military planning of futuristic soldiers on the superior blueprint provided by the ultimate sci-fi universe
Jordan Parker
They only so the Republic side of the war.
They never tell why CIS wanted to secede from the Republic.
Republic fears the truth.
Zachary Peterson
>fuck the Senate
Nah, fuck Ruusan!
Adrian Peterson
I'd say a clone living past 30 is an extreme rarity. Even if they didn't have any insanity.
Charles Bennett
Oh, don't get me wrong, Brother-Captain, I was merely speculating.
Praise the Emperor.
Henry Gutierrez
Michael Howard
>by the way 20 is when telomere based degeneration happens. From 20 on wards they start to degenerate.
But if you get a doner that's already past 20, the clone's body will be degrading like they are already that age. Sheep live 11-12 years. Dolly the sheep was cloned from a 6-year old sheep. Dolly lived 6.5 years.
Logan Price
kek
Jack Lewis
Now that I think about it, if the confederacy had won everyone could have a cute twi'lek slave gf.
>Wtf I love the confederacy now
Gavin Watson
>But if you get a doner that's already past 20, the clone's body will be degrading like they are already that age. Sheep live 11-12 years. Dolly the sheep was cloned from a 6-year old sheep. Dolly lived 6.5 years.
You should take into account that Dolly was cloned via a different method. Due to the circular nature of some of the steps I mentioned the next clone being born of a woman that's been primed or from the breeding program herself will be able to birth the same gene combination/make and in this case person. Basically we're cloning people by using the already available human body as both a template and and incubator with a little science and tech on the side to more accurately calculate and predict how everything's progressing or how many batches per generation or if it can be improved upon in some(newer batches superior to previous ones) etc.
Cloning a human like cloning Dolly would fuck them up even more. Not even talking about the even shorter lifespan but stuff like body disassociation which can evolve into other nasty surprises that can harm the medical staff or area it/they are rather than just the clone itself.
If you ask me humanity would rather just be cloning humans like Dolly since it's the most "ethical" and known way which would result in bad stuff which would mean human cloning would evolve really slowly or outright stop.
Meanwhile if they did it in the circular way it would benefit humanity a lot since lab-grown limbs would be more easily made and clone soldiers will actually be a thing thus no real person would need to go to war or if they do they'd be a clone with enough capabilities not just to survive but also cope with their life and place in civilization. Machines are like guns with nobody holding them. They can be hacked and turned against their former owners. Clones on the other hand can be made for a purpose and smart enough to always follow their masters they were assigned to loyally no matter the situation.
William Perry
The more tech evolves the more steps will be shortened. So it's not like technology isn't needed or anything but the problem is we might need to go back when the Dolly method doesn't go very well. So why not just avoid it? At least this is my opinion. Could be wrong.
Adrian Campbell
Viable, yes, ethical no.
Plus it's not exactly hard to find 200 lb guys with 130 iq.
Anthony Thomas
Yes, artificial wombs are viable. You don't need human women to clone people but it's how it was done long ago.
James Rogers
Designer Baby technology is the only way to keep the world healthy and good. So it is ethical as for me.
Evan Foster
>what is telomerase reverse transcriptase?
>what is de-differentiation of cells?
>what is gene editing of a fresh new zygote through homologous crossing over in order to get your soldiercloneDNA. fasta in chromosomes with complete telomeres?
Are US scientists in 1930 or are people in general just misinformed about biology?
(Yes, I am aware of the fact 72 genders, anti vaccination, 21st century creationism and other antiscientific movement are all American)
Xavier Reed
>ethical
you ignore all ethics to have a clone army u idiot
>viable
it is still impossible, but if it ever becomes possible, it will also be an option for anyone who wants to consider it an option, you dumbass
Jonathan Ross
>what is telomerase reverse transcriptase?
>what is gene editing of a fresh new zygote through homologous crossing over in order to get your soldiercloneDNA. fasta in chromosomes with complete telomeres?
How easy is any of that to do and how much will it cost?
Ryan Reed
Also, most importantly
>not cloning unborn zygotes to avoid shortened telomeres altogether
Would still need to wait 20 years for them to grow.
John Richardson
At the time humans manage to do such a thing, no one would agree with your sense of morality you faggot.
Luke Kelly
If you can afford to create a clone army, the extra cost would be trivial and the only way of stopping a massive social backlash for deliberately creating people who cannot live full lives after service just because the army wanted to save money.
Sebastian Brooks
Shortened telomeres aren't so bad. It's a nice little timer to make sure they'll get a new clone or at least use the existing one before the expiration date.
Aiden Watson
>just because the army wanted to save money.
The more resources are conserved the better. No, that doesn't mean everything should be cheap and shitty only that methods that are effective and cheap should be sought after more rather than highly experimental ones and later upgraded or exchanged for new ones based on results.
Asher Parker
Even if it's a mercenary army leased to some Nation they should still have a good reason to buy it don't you think? Nobody's gonna fork so much money when they know their own citizens might not approve it. If they like them so much, sell them the tech for big money so they'll make their own distinctive clones.
Ian Campbell
You say highly experimental but cloning itself is highly experimental so your point falls pretty flat.
Andrew Howard
>assume poster was an american scientist.
You must be the same guy that insists his favorite stripper is just "saving up for college."
Adrian Carter
>How ethical is it to create a clone army? Would it ever be a viable option?
you're going to shit your pants when your chad clone army turns out to be shitty genetic material propped up by jews.
Robert Perez
Flooding an array of humam cell nuclei with TRT to reconstruct the telomeres and screen for the most desired (least defficient) ones? However much it costs to keep human zygotes alive and suspended in development. If the equipment is already present (as would be in any reputable molecular biology University, research center or bioengineering company), it costs about 3000 dollars in materials and a couple of undergrad students hungry for a letter of recommendation. You might run into the problem that human genetic engineering is internationally illegal.
The costly part is to grow n babies for two decades to make soldiers. That would cost some billion, probably.
The last idea I said is stupid, the obvious is to clone zygotes, not old men. People usually think cloning is making a complete copy of a grown individual. It isn't. It's like birthing a new individual but with the genome of an already existing one.
Anyway, if you want supersoldiers, we're still a bit far off on *what* exactly to select for in the genetic makeup. We can maybe breed tall clones with dense muscle. But what if their eyesight is poor? What if they have propensity for some disease? And the most important thing for military applications: are they more loyal than homegrown humans?
We're on the point where we can (and in my opinion, should) edit out well characterised hereditary diseases. We still have a poor understanding of the human genome, transcriptome, proteome, metabolome and the functions of the brain from atom to individual.
Gene edited Supersoldiers are not a wise investment at the moment. What you want is cybernetic upgrades on existing soldiers. Now THAT we can do just fine.
Logan Watson
>t's a nice little timer to make sure they'll get a new clone or at least use the existing one before the expiration date.
I don't think you understand what a clone is. You seem to imply that humans can hop onto another body like some Dungeons and Dragons spirit. Clones aren't bodies, they are simply people that have the same 'information seed'. For example, any number of twins borne of the same zygote are clones by definition.
Cooper Gonzalez
I assure you I never assume Americans are scientists because they usually aren't. That's why your government pays top dollar for foreign engineers when it comes to science. While you're learning 72 genders created by an independent strong black woman God 6000 years ago, we're studying genomics.