Is education even a worthwhile investment anymore? Because student debt says otherwise

My job doesn’t even accept people without a masters. Sometimes it’s just an expensive piece of paper, but if you actually want to learn shit, you will learn something and be able to apply it.

Aim for a balance of what makes you happy but what can also pay the bills. Money is life in this reality.

this. it really depends.

post some sort of proof or fuck off.

It's really simple economics. Most people can do a trade, most people can't go to a good uni and get a good degree. If it really was some sort of massive scheme then uni graduates in degree requiring jobs would quit and start doing trades, but this never happens cause you're just making stuff up.

Pic related, 24 no degree.
Ultimately I realized I hate spending a third of my time making other people rich so I'm starting my own business.
Point is, you don't *need* a college degree. Sure, it makes it easier to get a job. I won't deny that. But there's so many other ways to make money it's silly. Get a degree only if you need one for the specific plan you have in mind, not because you think that's the only way to be successful.

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Jack that 401k contribution, especially if your employer matches it. It's basically free money for when you retire and your unlikely to miss fifty or one hundred bucks every two weeks. Plus, if you get really fucked, you can cash out early and take the tax hit.

Let's start of from the premise that what you want to be is "happy" in an ample sense, and that you believe a level of satisfaction, growth and significance can be achieved in such a manner as to feel you have lived a well lived life.
In this context, you have to think about the role that formal academic education plays in your life and in the achievement of "Happiness".
being it that you asked specifically about education, I'm going to limit this answer to that.

Education can be understood as a set of tools. These tools allow you to create something, in this case, a way of life. So first question is: How important is education in the construction of the way of life you want for yourself?
Now, these tools are academic and otherwise. Academic tools in the form of knowledge acquired are a requisite to graduation but are not always the most important.

If you go to college, it's not only the knowledge and skills you obtain, it's also the people you meet. The people you learn to interact with and the social networks you create. These are the tools that will help you get on the career path to your goal way of life. Just being an excellent student won't cut it as being a flunky with many friends won't either.

Now, education will put you on the initial square to create a way of life and meeting the people that will take you there. For many, like second generation Chinese or Indian, it's almost the only way to enter a higher social circle.

See your first day in college as your first day in a very long job application process.

If you've got family wealth and can obtain a satisfactory life without entering the job maze, it's definitely not worth your time or money, specially if you're a gurl.

Also, "the cake is a lie".

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My employer matches up to 5% so I put in just enough to max that. I put my contribution in Roth 401k, theirs goes to pre-tax 401k.
I was putting in 15% at one point but I decided to take that extra 10% and put it into my own Roth IRA so I'm not as limited in what I can invest in.

No one in their right mind is denying there is a lot of ways to become successful, or earn above the average. But most people wont, you can break that down to probability with ease.

Question is if it's worth accumulating student debt in America in present time and it's not.

>Your average tradesman makes way more than that and doesn't have the debt

I meant for this claim which doesn't agree with or anything else I can find.

Ah, score man. I misread it, then. You can make so much more money than someone who waits until 45 to start retirement.

It's not probability, it's that people aren't aware so they don't even try. K-12 don't teach students good business sense or how to spot opportunities. They push the YOU NEED A DEGREE OR YPUR FAMILY WILL STARVE meme so hard. People give up because that's the only path to success they can see.

You don't need a degree, it's just by far the easiest way to do it.

4+ years of study, thousands in debt, working yourself ragged keeping up with deadlines, unpaid internships
Seems a lot slower than spending $500 or so to become a real estate agent or something.
Say if you were able to take that student loan money and put in a down payment and renovations on a rental duplex. You'd have somewhere to live, cash flow, and an appreciating asset building equity. You'd already be ahead of 90% of college students.

Trying doesn't equate to the odds of getting ahead with student loans. If working hard, trying and believing was all it took we'd all be running a 500 fortune company. Just take a look on the employment structure of any company. seriously, any. I know the US is the king of propaganda, but at least try to think for yourself

By trying I mean putting in some effort to find a better hustle. But most people, all they ever do is go for the wagebucks and settle there. Most people are okay with that, and that's perfectly fine.

Go to community college
Get scholorships
Study a relevant field

But the risk of having your life seriously overtaken by debt is dangerous right now.
However you get that money is fine. However you find the balance is fine.
Just saying that having student debt in current times is not worth the risk for most people.

college is a big investment. It takes up your time, energy and life. It's something that you have to want to do. Going to college will change your life if you let it.

Compared to not having a degree yes it is. I'm leaving for Germany after I graduate though. Thank God for dual citizenship I plan to burn my passport and give up my us citizenship.

Unless it is for:
- engineering (not computers)
- law
- medicine
- MBA

not worth it in the least.
Instead go for a professional school or vocational school. You will spend less money, less time and earn more than university.

Have fun!

Objectively and purely from a financial point of view, yes.

ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/earningsandworkinghours/datasets/grossweeklyearningsbyoccupationearn06

I'd be really interested what you all have to say about this.

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I drank the koolaid and fell for the university meme.
Unless it is for you are wasting time and money.
The whole "do what you feel like" is a meme. The only way to get a job is to have contacts.

From that picture, it seems that being a manager (MBA) pays most.

But again, what you fail to take into account is the debt incurred with universities and the loss of money in the time you study.

This is coming from a PhD dropout who took a job and is making more $$ as a masters than a PhD.

>go to state college, $20k of debt when I graduated
>get internship during last 2 summers which paid $20/hr, was dumb and didn't really save much of it/pay off debts, mostly used for toys
>get a job out of college paying $70k with a $10k moving bonus and a $5k signing bonus
>on track to pay off my student loans in about 2 years with 0 financial stress about doing so

Financially, if you go into a major that makes decent money you'll be fine. If you go into a field where school name doesn't matter, go to a community college, then follow up with a local 4 year state school.

Bitch, you had your chance to vote in democrats but you gave away your vote to a pointless protest. Now you can drown in your debt and wallow in your self made misery. Go ask Jill stein for that six million she laundered from you fools!

>vote in democrats
You clearly have no idea what the democrats want in terms of schooling. They want to increase the budget to allow for higher loans. Last time that happened, the price of university skyrocketed. As such, government intervention in the student loans means higher costs.

I hope to god our current government makes it illegal.

>But again, what you fail to take into account is the debt incurred with universities and the loss of money in the time you study.
nah I'm taking it into account, the difference is far more than the average student loans and whatever in lost earnings over your life

You can also find it by specific job, and it's the exact same thing. Even the worst paying college jobs like secondary school teacher are above the best paying trades like plumber and electrician, not by much but easily enough to make up the student loan/years of missed earnings.

bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm

>This is coming from a PhD dropout who took a job and is making more $$ as a masters than a PhD.
You're not meant to do a phd for money... it probably is a waste or maybe breaking even. You do it if you want to work those sort of jobs

You're god, akin to your fanatasy on democratic principles - pure fiction.

More money than a PhD? What are you, a doctor? (Sarcasm evident)

30-something here:

Was poor growing up and didn't have access to any monies for college and/or much tuition assistance. (Other than the predatory loan kind which mathematically would mean I'd owe $20k on top of what I'm borrowing.)

I've watched ALL of my college friends go off and do the college party dream only for them to now be working jobs that they didn't expect and aren't usin their degree and they're paying for a piece of paper for pretty much their entire early adult life. (Only one so far has paid off the $60k+ debt.)

I do remember there being TONS of pressure to "know what you want to do in life" in high school. I was 18! How the fuck should I know what I want to do? I haven't DONE anything to find out if I'd want to invest that much money into it.

The problem is, is that what if you don't know what you want to do? What if you aren't sure that you want to drop thousands into a path only to realize that it's not something you enjoy doing? Sure you can change majors and minors, but you're kinda financially fucked.

If you'd like to further your education, I would suggest looking into smaller community colleges to get your basic courses out of the way. They're cheaper, and in come cases, quicker. Save the BIG colleges for things that a basic community can't teach you. (Medical field, art, mechanical, whatever.) Learn a trade that you can take with you wherever you go in the world, because those skills never stop being useful. Bonus for learning another language, because that's going to look great on your resume later.

Good luck, OP.

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Depends if you want to be a blue collar wage slave your entire life.

I'm fairly biased as I am in a top 10 public University in the nation, do great in school, and if I keep my shit going forward should start out making 80-100k base salary in my field. Its nothing insane, but it is more than enough for me to start saving up and building a solid foundation.

Is education worth it? Yes, education in an of itself is valuable to a person not only because of the jobs you can get. Being educated helps your critical thinking, an essential skill for the rest of your life.

If money is what worries you, pick a field where jobs are available. Pick something you love and have passion for. If you don't have a passion or your field is garbage(most liberal arts, feminine studies, art majors, philosophy, etc.) don't get an education.

I know a woman who spent ~150k on getting a masters in woman's studies and didn't realize that field is completely useless and offers no jobs. Don't be that person.

Everybody that says they couldn't find work after college never took advantage of internships, networking and group projects. It is what you make of it just like in high school. If you take it seriously you have opportunities right out of the gate.

This. My current university has an online application stuffed to the brim with networking goldmines. Internships, research groups, clubs for specific majors that work to build careers for their members, job opportunities, programs, etc.

Thank you for posting this I forgot to!