What does Jow Forums of direct democracy (in all matters, ie constitutional, and allowing the removal of an elected official and not only legislative)? This is the #2 demand by the yellow vests (#1 being Macron's resignation).
The more you think about it, the more it sounds like a good idea, but it would be such a profound shift from governing systems we know, I'd like to get some insight from non-frogs. Please think about it before dismissing it as commie garbage.
One of the main ideas, is that would allow for a decentralization of power, similar to what's happening with blockchain: it's harder to corrupt millions of people vs a few elected officials, and common sense would always win out over (((private))) interests. Now it sounds overly idealistic and filled with traps in order to enforce it. But a lot of the theory around it is very sound. Ie being able to vote out an official at any moment (after say 2 years to see results), limiting officials privileges (only the national median income + enforcing through constitution that an official must make his finances public to monitor bribes) would put pressure on officials and ensure no corruption knowing they're monitored (also other measures like ensuring negotiations be publicly live streamed, easily done now) and therefore would also means the ones willing to step up and serve would be real citizens and do so with the highest respect for public interests and obey the people on all major matters. Similar concepts adopted to MSM, 8 oligarchs own +80% of MSM in France and one proposal would be to break monopoly and make it that medias be publicly funded, but independently, similar to how judicial institution operates, rewarded according to approval rates, etc. A lot of focus on transparency and horizontality, at constitutional level, and the notion that public servants must be patriotic, willing to serve the nation rather than serving themselves, to eradicate possibilities of corruption by (((private))) interests.
direct democracy? Unless it's somewhat like e-democracy, forget about it. You'll just suffer through more years of this shit. You need a constitution like Americas, but updated to included even more rights for MAN. That way you don't have to undergo revolution every 60-ish or so years and make it more like 80ish. Oh and make sure to include "ABSOLUTELY NO FIAT, OR PRIVATIZED CENTRAL BANKS"
Juan Cook
E-democracy could be done easily now, especially with blockchain, it would require a period of development and transition but if there's a will there's a way. We're aware of the central banks issue, but right everything is locked down by EU and treacherous MSM and (((elites))). The whole point of RIC is it would allow us to frexit, then go back to national banking and monetary policies, being able to control our own borders, end the debt racket, etc. We're aware we must address the issues at root level, and that's why they're so scared.
Adding on more with this, the burgers have done a lot of stupid shit, but one of the best things they ever created was their initial bill of rights. You need some form of French equivalent of that, but something that would work more in favor of how the culture normally is over there. If you manage to incorperate it with an e-democracy while having something like "PRIVACY OF THE PEOPLE SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED BY GOVERNMENT AND OR COMPANY'S/PRIVATE ENTITIES" that would be a good way of going about it, I heard about Estonia doing e-democracy and it help curb most of the bureaucracy in an otherwise shitty country. >inb4 MORE SOCIALISM
Andrew Sanchez
You would need to create a new republic entirely at this rate. Your government is pozzed, not nearly as bad as the entire Anglosphere luckily. Though if you guys can get an e-democracy to work, that would be great.
Levi Ward
Thanks for the insight leaf, I was aware of E-stonia, I will look more into it. We're aware it's pozzed beyond belief. The recurring joke here is "we don't want a sixth republic, we want the first democracy".
No problem Frog, just do note as I said, if you guys ABSOLUTELY need to have a direct democracy, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do an e-democracy. Oh and again have a constitution that's like Americas (1st amendment expanded, and 2nd expanded, and so forth) and incorporate the good aspects of yours. I'm not super aware of your constitution, you likely know better than me of course. This way even if a shit government were to absolute fuck you guys up for a good 20-30 years, as it is for Burgerland, and Leafland. You'll have a backup option to fight back if absolutely necessary. On a side note, make sure you have the right to fight back as well. You don't want to become like Sweden, where defending yourself would lead to a harsher punishment than the criminal would get from attacking you. I could honestly have a mega fuckton list to put in a constitution but that would take probably 20+ posts, and that is not something I'm willing t do.
Jason Jenkins
Direct democracy doesn't work. It's been tried and it failed spectacularly.
The first one to try it out were hippie communes in the late 60s. Why don't they exist today? Why did they all fall apart? Because in a situation where everyone's word counts, there are always individuals who dominate the others. Who intimidate the others. Who are bigger assholes than the others. Who shout louder and longer than the others. After a very short time, those assholes became the leaders of the hippie communes and then nobody wanted to be a part of that anymore.
The very same thing happened to the Pirate Party recently. They had apps and chats and websites for direct democracy. But as always, when one makes a decision, there's other who don't like it. All that direct democracy did was challenge every single decision taken by direct democracy and do that with ad hominems and quite publicly. And that's why today their party has below 1% of the votes.
Both of us know this, but if the Frogs absolutely need to have a direct democracy, we're trying to do an e-democracy if possible. At least it would cut down on bureaucracy, and would have people much more aware in general.
Thomas Miller
What you're describing (hippie commune and party) isn't representative of a whole population, this is fundamentally different and has never been tried. We're talking about a referendum process allowing constitutional changes that would be initiated by citizens and require a certain percentage of the population showing support before being submitted to the national vote. We're talking about monetary policies and border control, what the real majority wants, not legalizing weed and protecting gay rights.
Jack Jackson
Why the fuck is this the only yellow vests thread? Why did I read on fucking reddit first that yellow vests have taken out most of the speed cameras in France?
I don't have time to NEET at the moment, so I can't fix this shit. What the fuck are you doing people?
Jayden Richardson
The principle is the same, at least for important decision. For not so important once, the vast majority will stop voting after a short time. And then you get results like in telephone polls.
"Should there be a death penalty for drug users?" 88% YES 12% NO (127 callers)
Henry Torres
Dont forget to withdraw as much money as you can from the bank this saturday 12 at 8am!
and don't forget : to approve an international treaty
It will force politician to be better pedagogue, to explain thoroughly what they are doing. And this is a good thing for three reasons, first people are smarter than 300 years ago, also they are more informed with the rise of media an internet, finally we have better teaching method (animated video, montage video, cross link reference, wikis).
But this is the perfect reason why the current political class has no interest in a RIC reform. They don't want to explain, they want to keep their secret and when they leave the government sell it to the highest payer. See how they become counseller for tax fraud.
The possibility to impeach any elected is then doubly damaging. Not only you stop them from creating tax shelter that they could sell the rope to big companies in the future but you keep them in check on any possible fraud.
This is litteraly a death sentence for anyone trying to make money with politic.
Xavier Anderson
are you guys going hot yet?
Eli Allen
are you guys starting to become violent after they killed some of your own? because I might have what you need.
James Hughes
>The first one to try it out were hippie communes in the late 60s
Didn't the Athenians have a pure and direct democracy?
Logan Rivera
I have enough faith in the common and popular sense, that if people are given real power that can improve their lives, and see the results, then they will take the responsibility seriously and reasonably. Currently people treat shit like polls as a joke because they know they have no power. Plus there are ways to ensure that the public debate be carefully organized and thought through rather than following blind lynch mob impulses, ie if there's a huge case about a child killing sparking the death penalty debate out of emotion, then there should be like a one year period allowing the debate to unfold before submitting to the vote. And we could also debate and propose modalities so things aren't always black and white. Ie the main argument against death penalty is that sometimes people get executed and proven innocent after the fact, but now with DNA, camera surveillance and such, there are ways to prove crimes beyond reasonable doubt. It's unreasonable to assume the majority will ask the death penalty for drug users, but it could happen for terrorists and confirmed serial killers.
What do you think of RIC, or what do you want to see happen/think will happen?
Yeah and it didn't work out as time went on. Direct democracy could only work if it was an e-democracy.
Joseph Clark
democracy at all is shit and never lasts, it soon wastes exhaust's and kills it's self, the french based their "republics" around democracy which is why they are on their 3-4th
Eli Jones
I said could, we haven't seen the full extent of how long Estonia is going since they're the only country in the world with an actual e-democracy. I only brought it up, since the Frog was insistent that the other Frogs would want a direct democracy, so I just put my 2 cent in and said that was the only form of democracy that might work, otherwise forget about it.
Logan Murphy
What is planned for Acte IX this saturday? Anything good in other cities than Paris? Vive la France!
and I was merely stating how a democracy even an e-democracy could never work for century by quoting a founding father of this corrupted republic.
Tyler Nguyen
I don't want the Frogs to do a democracy as much as you do, but we're both potentially powerless to say much. Monarchism also isn't an answer, since no way the French would ever put that back as a form of government ever again. At this rate, it will be another republic or democracy, whether we like it or not, I could be wrong of course, and I'm hoping I am.
Colton Moore
I hope they bring back Vichy France.
Caleb Clark
That likely isn't going to return either, but we could maybe hope.
Charles Nguyen
they might bring it back under a different name but keep the policies
Michael Cooper
That would be possible, but it's quite uncertain on who ultimately will gain power again after the collapse. Also just a fun thing to note, France is a nuclear power and it's going to have a full-blown civil war, dunno why that idea seems funny but alright.
Wyatt Garcia
they won;t use nukes willy nilly, they are fighting a ground war and would not even attempt it even if losing,
Liam Myers
So far the deaths have been "accidental". It's not only riots like you see in videos, there are road blocks at toll booths and such all over the country, this has caused a few road accidents. Iit's a chess game being played, they can't use live rounds and we can't be violent unless immediately provoked, or we lose public support, the 70% silent majority. MSM is already heavily one-sided in its propaganda, showing YV violence any chance they get but shutting down all police violence and YV injuries. It's a cynical thing to say but we're all waiting for the first real martyr death that would shock public opinion and justify the use of real violence, and all we can do for now is to keep pushing (majority of boomers protesting peacefully during the day overwhelming the cops but keeping their hands clean, minority of antifa and shitskins hiding in plain sight causing economic damage and cops fatigue by rioting and breaking shit, it's kind of an implicit deal) until the cops put down the helmets.
The gypsy clan is pissed, the boxer hero they arrested is one of theirs. They claim they're now organizing to cause chaos and are ready for violence, there are also talks about them having plans to block maritime ports, maybe calling reinforcement from other European gypsy communities. Hard to tell what they'll do, they're like barking dogs, will they bite? There's also a bank run organized. But I don't think it will have an immediate effect. Word needs to spread further. Last week was violent so they're mobilizing a lot more police Saturday, repeating what happened between act 3 and 4, so it could be disappointing in Paris but the movement is adapting and know it's a trap. I expect less violence in Paris but more people in other cities.
No I'm just curious on what would happen if total Ancaps got into government, and had a bone to pick with every country in and near the EU. Not suggesting anything, no no no. It just seems like a funny idea, that totally shouldn't be done.
Aiden Gutierrez
the best it seem you can do is flase flag the cops shooting first which will insta-flip more cops to the protests and start another revolution. if that is what you want of course.
Oliver Reyes
yes indeed pretty funny.
Noah Campbell
bump
Easton Bailey
>it's going to have a full-blown civil war Civil war = horizontal conflict Revolution = vertical conflict We're not savages, we know who we're fighting against. The only civil war will be the race war. People are out with anti-Rothschild signs but no one is talking about Islam. We understand which cancers are causes and which are consequences, who must be dealt with first so we can deal with the other after.
I've thought about how easy it would be stage fake cop violence footage and let it go viral, but it would probably be debunked. The system has tried multiple small-scale false flags already and it only comes back to bite them in the ass. Plus it's such a dirty way of fighting, I'd rather naively believe that truth will triumph over liars and cheaters, otherwise we'll just become them and why are we even doing this?
Nathan Bailey
>What does Jow Forums of direct democracy (in all matters, ie constitutional, and allowing the removal of an elected official and not only legislative)? Democracy is a false and traitorous god and its cult ought to be eradicated.
That said I would be "Machiavellian-ly" in favor of it just for the sake of weakening and ultimately toppling the current regime.
we slaughtered Hessins in the deep of Christmas night while they were drunk off their asses, you need to play dirty to win. what can happen is you take uniforms from raided police stations and standard rifles and use live ammo on a protest in which you can escape from with ease and ditch the suit in a barrel fire.
Carson Morales
leave no evidence and you can not be found out.
Anthony Sanchez
I'm just in this for the carnage. But if you kill enough Rothschilds we all get to be free again, which might be nice.
Tyler Rivera
I feel like a largely publicized bank run might have the effect of causing an unintentionally planned early bank run from people who are scared of losing their money
Kayden Morgan
thats the point of us spreading it it makes people scared their might be a bank run and so they pull out thier money making it inadvertently easier for us to make the bank run happen
Parker Ward
There are withdrawal limits, and of course MSM is not publicizing it so it's still limited to word of mouth, but if on Saturday people protest by lining up behind ATMs and make it the main message, they'd be forced to report and it could be huge.
Levi Watson
>I'd rather naively believe that truth will triumph over liars and cheaters, otherwise we'll just become them and why are we even doing this? Based and whitepilled.
Someone should translate this even though I have feeling that I already know what it is about.
Samuel Edwards
>The more you think about it, the more it sounds like a good idea It is a great, great idea, in homogeneous countries. Let's assume it passes, then if we don't purge France from the people who hate our guts and country, then this will be used in 30 years as a way to impose sharia when Muslims will be a majority.
Christian Martinez
Let's remind the rules. You, you let yourself be annihilated without saying anything.
Daniel Long
If you can read French wiki.gentilsvirus.org/index.php/Constitution_Wiki_Etienne_Chouard Example of new constitution redacted by a collective of citizens led by the "spiritual father" of the movement >The citizens dictate that only the state, controlled by its people, can create money, any official contributing, directly or indirectly, to violating this principle (through treaties forcing the state to borrow) will be tried for high treason We lost our monetary sovereignty in 73 with what is known as the Pompidou-Rothschild law, Pompidou was also a Rothschild banker MSM is calling him a nazi but he's a high school professor and the most kind and humble man you can imagine
>The Gypsy clan is calling its own to rally, yesterday the German-French gypsies answered, at 8am today German police is alarmed, more than 500 caravans at the French-German border, a convoy from south to north is also being deployed at least 250 caravans, trucks... The gypsies aremaking a request to the yellow vests: keep your weakest, your eldest and your children at home because we're not coming to play the guitar. The boxer is one of ours. We're 86 000. lmao I know they're so full of shit but this could be so much fun.
