What's your best argument against communism?

inefficient to the point where eventually half the population just dies.

I know, but I'm interested in other persons arguments, that's all

There are finite resources on Earth, and lazy people exist.

Back to Ironmarch you sperg

Incompatible, humans are evil

Well the actual ideology itself is contradictory. Imagine literally thinking that creating a bureaucratic super powered central state could ever end up in a statless Utopia? How fucking retarded do you have to be

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You go Hungry

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Damn, I can barely read that

HERE'S THE BEST ARGUMENT AGAINST COMMUNISM

Straight from the experiences of someone whose family survived it. God bless Jow Forums

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this

especially, human's tendencies to be prideful turns into a tyrannical system when the official pretense is that "we are all equal"

pic related

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I like living.

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Communism in practice.

Its been tried.

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Because no matter how hard we try, or how many times we try, we can never find the "real" form of socialism.

Animal Farm. Something even a child can understand, yet commie niggers can't comprehend it's basic lessons.

It's unnatural and pure idealism.

RGB is dead

Communist countries

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people dont like being told what to do, people like choice, and people desire nice things, as well property, im not convinced that in western society you can convince people to lower their standards of living for the betterment of the whole. The inherent capitalist values of western society and consumerism have reinforced that notion - it is the great cultural bastion of brightly lit, instant, endless, individual gratification

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niggers would not let socialism work. They would gib the economy to death and communism would never have a chance.

it's jewish

45years under its rule

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people like to own things

you don't argue with communists or against communism. you ignore them until such time you give your government power to eliminate them by force.

It's gay and retarded.

It's hard to make an equal society with no hierarchy when mankind is naturally competitive.

Primitive communism didn’t exist. Trying to mimic the good things about it Marx thought were real won’t work. The primitive man wasn’t a peaceful, docile socialist sharing everything in abundant harmony. He was a cannibalistic, warlike savage. It’s in our nature. Influenced by, but not fundamentally caused by environmental/historical/socioeconomic forces.

Oh, looks like someone beat me to it.

Jamestown

Im not sure of a stateless society is actually a good thing for humanity. I realize one could argue the state is not the only way to cooperate, and that the state itself is a specific term for a system of laws and violence designed to protect the ruling class, but im not 100% sold on it.
What ever the case, proletarian dictatorship and (real) socialism is a good idea, whether it actually slowly transitions to communism naturally as communist ideology says it will i suppose is the measure of whether its a good idea or not, since if it is required for larger scale coordination and cooperation to happen we wont ever let the state fade.

It's only sustainable by Nationalistic Whites, and even then it will beat them down until they are mere shells if their former glory. It wasn't designed to work, it was designed to consolidate power & resources for God's chosen people.

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I earn more than the average person pretty much world wide. I earn this money by being both educated and by working nights and weekends.

I would not do my job for the same pay as everyone else. I would leave.

>proletarian dictatorship and (real) socialism is a good idea

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>He was a cannibalistic, warlike savage

What's interesting is that this is how Jews act, it's almost like the "docile socialist" meme is their mask for deceiving goyim, as instructed by the Talmud.

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The equality of communism is equality of class only. One of its fundamental slogans flat out says peoples abilities and needs are not equal.

If you work for someone else at all you are being exploited. If you work for yourself you are still being exploited by having to interface with a system based on exploitation (for example, you are a self employed carpenter, you must buy wood that is priced based on a system of profit for the capitalist who owns the forest, and not simply based on the woodcutters labor).

nothing to do with communism

there are no gibs in communism, everyone must work, if you dont want to work you go to gulag and work.
The only gib is that there are actually enough jobs for everyone because if there is a labor surplus everyone just works fewer hours.
Of course there are social programs for people who have become injured or disabled, it is willingness to work and not the work itself that is mandatory.

>The burden of proof lies on the side of a claimer.

the state of my country

This is actually an argument for communism, because if you compensate for the actions of the CIA and global banks you see that socialist states are far more successful than capitalist ones.

I for example became a communist not from any theory, but from looking at history with my propaganda filters on. Jow Forums can do it too, if you can question the holocaust you can learn to question holodomor.
They even made them sound similar to flaunt the strength of their red scare propaganda machine and communist strawman they built in the boomers mind.

Value is subjective.

"They pretend to pay us, we pretend to work."

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it's really not even utopian tbqh

God created men unequal.

It’s literally in favor of tyranny against individuals

You cannot argue with psychopaths, but defend YOUR freedom by all means

I am mainly against the Socialist/Communist doctrine because i cary too much about merit and personal freedoms, a society where everyone is supported by the state goes against all my beliefs.

Just because you have valid criticisms of capitalism doesn't mean that an alternative system will be better.

winrar

give one example of successful communism

Even though it's a meme, real communism has never happened yet. Because communism is the end stage of socialism, which is also a retarded system.

So that end stage is never reached, but it would have been retarded anyway.

In every aspect we are different to some degree. There are no two people exactly the same. Yet, communists are so retarded that they postulate all people should be equally 'privileged'.
Seriously

>personal freedoms
Individualists destroyed the west.

Also, as stalin says. How can someone claim to be free when they are trapped in a system where people are wielding vast economic power to keep them in line? You cant just check out of it and go into the woods and live like your ancestors did, the woods are property now, you must conform to the system one way or another.

The ancap solution is to buy some land and then ignore everything else. The problem here is property rights depend on a state existing to enforce them, so the ancaps immediate disdain for the state is counterproductive, if they get both halves of their wish it will just nullify itself and have total chaos.

Communists seek to destroy the state, but realize to do that first we must destroy what the state exists to serve, class. As long as economic class exists the state will naturally materialize so that the higher economic classes can wield that state to have their way with everyone else.

By first having state-enforced classlessness (the result of the proletarian dictatorship. The working class has the luxury of doing away with every other class and not having society collapse, they are the only class that can get rid of everyone else and thus the only class that all humans can exist as, thus destroying class distinction, and thus destroying class itself).

Once the state is being wielded by the only class that exists, it no longer needs an instrument to protect itself from the lower classes, there are none, and the state serving the interests of the ruling class is a state serving the interests of all people.
Only then can the state hope to be abolished,
As i said earlier, im not sure if thats a good thing. Maybe a sort of proletarian dictatorship is what remains forever, but that would be better than what we currently have.

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>What's your best argument against communism?
Examples of communist countries.

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my Grandparents lived under Stalin.

>History tells me everything I need to know.

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>you will be coerced to work
And what if I want to be an outcast punk rocker? Can I dropout to engage in my own, obscure interests?

30 gorillion in Russia

Our entire economy, that includes the currency, relies on being free. The economy is free due to the autonomous and free actions of all the people. A government can neither control nor predict it
So here you are, financial systems completely collapsing. Currency fucked so you can't even import food
So what's next? Since there will be a shortage of food you'll need to boost agriculture
So land all of a sudden belongs to 'everyone' (sounds familiar?) and is managed to maximize its food production at all cost
That means you will be able to choose from about two different fruits, two vegetables and, if you're lucky, you may also be able to have some meat once a week. But that'd be lucky
There was no diversity in the market. About two kinds of anything. Say goodbye to being able to pick from 30 different kinds of doughnuts
Since the economy can't be efficiently planned, many of those companies that you've just seized will start to become unprofitable. That means subsidies
>muh abolished currency
Currency reflects resources. You'll still need to subsidize the companies and their workers with something. And now if everyone eats one more bread than you've planned everyone will starve. So you put people on rations
So you'll spend your glory days of communism trying to micromanage your agriculture (which will be merged into one giant conglomerate to make it easier) to even feed your people
Eventually, the agriculture may start to produce a surplus and people will go off rations. That won't matter since salaries will only be high enough to buy food and nothing else. People here had to save up for weeks/months to buy jeans
Since there's a deficit of everything and no one can afford anything, nepotism and corruption will run rampant, making the system even less efficient
The rest of your glorious days will be spent suppressing the entire population and trying to bullshit them with ideas of revolution so they hopefully won't notice they're starving

This:

Humans aren't homogeneous.

history

You deny God.

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>You cant just check out of it and go into the woods and live like your ancestors did, the woods are property now
You can buy property dipshit. The dream of a capitalist society is that you can buy your freedom if you want to (Even though most choose to stay a slave to the system).

>Communists seek to destroy the state, but realize to do that first we must destroy what the state exists to serve, class. As long as economic class exists the state will naturally materialize so that the higher economic classes can wield that state to have their way with everyone else.
1) A state isn't inherintly bad. NatSoc Germany was alright.
2) There will always be a class hierarchy. If it isn't with wealth it will be with merit.

>but that would be better than what we currently have.
Hell no. You have no proof to back that up. That would be literal enslavement.

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Its the prelude to fascism. Why can't the supporters of that nonsense see it?

The pile of corpses

Remember in socialism everyone, including the state, are workers. Everyones best interest is to make being a worker as enjoyable as possible. Since everyone is employed, and there is no value being siphoned off to let porky live with out working at all, workers will end up working less than they do under capitalism.

Personal interests are highly encouraged typically. In fact work camps usually have designated personal enrichment time in their schedules in socialist states.

It removes the bother of work from you, you do your time every day and then you are free. You are no longer conflicted with ideas like not enjoying your work or wanting a job you like doing, because unlike in capitalism where workers are abused and must give most of their energy to the capitalist, its just another chore in socialism, and your real purpose is not defined by your work.

breadlines

You sound like a propoganda poster jesus christ dude. All your opinions are based on blind idealism that will never materialize in the real world.

Because greed always kill rational thinking

>work camps
>personal enrichment time
faggots like you deserve communism.

Show me a photo of Stalin doing hard labour.

>You can buy property
I addressed this fully.

>class hierarchy.
only economic class can lead to disproportionate influence on the state, other kinds of social hierarchy are not a concern to socialists.

>enslavement
you say when we live in a system of wage slavery with prisons which are worse than any gulag ever was.
>muh willing contract with employer
a slave can choose to not work too and get beaten or killed, see, a choice, i guess slavery was not slavery.

I really like food

>How can someone claim to be free when they are trapped in a system where people are wielding vast economic power to keep them in line?

So instead all the power will be held by the state? How is that better? It's much worse

>You cant just check out of it and go into the woods and live like your ancestors did, the woods are property now, you must conform to the system one way or another.

Yes, you can. You buy property and live there. And in communism, once you build a house in the woods, some hippie hobo will come in and live with you. He'll also steal your phone (spoiler, there won't be any phones in such a system). And you can't do anything about it since everything belongs to everyone

>The problem here is property rights depend on a state

No, in AnCap it depends on me having a shotgun and using it to blow your brains out if you try to steal anything from me. There would be private police/miliraty contractors that I could hrie to protect myself as well

I don't even think AnCap would be a good system but holy shit it's much better than what you're suggesting

>state exists to serve, class

Horseshit. The state serves all citizens equally
>muh corruption...
...is not the fault of capitalism and was much worse in socialist countries

>thus destroying class distinction

Thus making everyone poor
>muh 1%...
...doesn't have the resources to support the lower classes. Believe it or not. Their wealth mostly lies in:
1: stocks, which will now be worthless
2. properties, which will now be worthless
3: Companies, which will now be worthless
4: Currency, which will now be worthless

> but that would be better than what we currently have.

t, Proud gender studies graduate currently employed at McDonalds

>only economic class can lead to disproportionate influence on the state, other kinds of social hierarchy are not a concern to socialists.
You will never get rid of differences between people even when it comes wealth, resources and women in society without a state. If you want to enforce this then you're corrupt and you're my mortal enemy. I won't give up my freedom because some people are poor.

>you say when we live in a system of wage slavery with prisons which are worse than any gulag ever was.
Bullshit. Gulags were hell. You are not even a slave to the system if you don't want to. Everyone can go on welfare somehow, especially in Europe.

>a slave can choose to not work too and get beaten or killed
But that's not the case in current society. Everyone can quit life and go on welfare.

the corpse pile enough?

greed IS rational thinking when you have a inflationary driving private central bank.
With inflation you have to keep making money because the shit you have won't be worth anything in a decade or two...
Fucking dumb commies

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it makes religion flourish

the labor theory of value is wrong and no two people are equal in skills or value

wipe the cum off your lips you cunt.
how the fuck can you cite stalin saying such a thing? the hypocrisy level is revolting
YOU DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE, TAKE THE MASK OFF SHLOMO

Right, meanwhile I spent my early twenties making as much money as possible on a low lifestyle to retire at 35

Seriouly, I’ve never met a single commie that lives by the standards he preaches.

Half of the communism/capitalism fake duality and fake pendulum swing

>only economic class can lead to disproportionate influence on the state

Your garbage US laws cause this. Normal countries have laws preventing capitalism from going crony
>with prisons which are worse than any gulag

Absolutely retarded you are. People were dying in gulags due to not being fed and working 16 hours a day. How can you say it's better?

>everyone, including the state, are workers

Uh, you're kind of forgetting the whole services sector which makes up majority of the economy

>siphoned off to let porky live with out working

No, just to let the people controlling the state live without working. Also, the inefficient economy means much more work for less

>Personal interests are highly encouraged typically

Bullshit

>In fact work camps usually have designated personal enrichment time in their schedules in socialist states

Are you trolling? "Oh well, maybe I have to work 18 hours a day in a fucking uranium mine while getting fed once a day, and I'll get shot if I show dissatisfaction, but hey, at least they let me enrich myself whatever that means"
Typical case of degenerate likely-American ignoring all evidence. You won't believe in it until you personally get put in a concentration camp

>You are no longer conflicted with ideas like not enjoying your work or wanting a job you like doing, because unlike in capitalism where workers are abused and must give most of their energy to the capitalist, its just another chore in socialism, and your real purpose is not defined by your work.

Absolute horsheshit. How does capitalism affect what I enjoy? It simply doesn't. And what's the difference between a job and a 'chore', according to you?

it turns people into mindless sheep, then it makes them hopeless so they give up on life and procreating

It isn’t compatible with human nature. If we are to be equal, then we are not free, because if we are free, we are not equal.

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I'm already carrying women for their bad decisions, you want me to lift for the rest?

what is this, a picture for ants?

Hi there pollacks, cant sleep today. Wanna play? I can try to fight back some of your arguments, we can do a little sparring and have some fun.

Oh and im not from the stalinist brand I think that guy sucked so you have some target diversity.

Ill try to shoot down the one I saw repeated the most: "Its in our nation".
So convenient, dont you think? That our floating, invisible nature makes us determined to live in our current sistem and with our current ruling class in power and no other sistem fits us as perfectly. And so convenient that, trough history likewise all societies claimed the same, that our ultimate nature justified the statu-quo of the ruling class.

fuck, I ment "its our nature" (human nature). Five minutes here and im already thinking about nations. Your propagada is good!

>best argument against communism

Bullet in the commie's head

waiting for a point to be made...

Well said. I love your Skorpion machine pistols, by the way.