Hey Jow Forums, I've made a couple of threads before in order to spark discussion on contemporary events. There was another thread talking about this (), but I want to discuss in a more organized manner.
Let's lay out the facts.
So recently, Rand Paul has been criticized by lefties, being shown in an "ironic" light as he went to a Canadian hospital for hernia surgery, which has a health care system Paul himself has advocated against. The specific name of the hospital is the Shouldice Hernia Hospital, which, according to The Hill [1]: >is "the only licensed hospital in the world dedicated to repairing hernias," according to its website. One of Rand's spokeswomen, Kelsey Cooper, stated in The Hill that the hospital is [1]: >“a private, world renowned...separate from any system and people come from around the world to pay cash for their services" which one would consider to therefore be a "private" hospital, the same type you would see in the US, where patients/private health care providers pay for the cost. Private Healthcare is indeed an option in Canada. A Canadian Supreme Court ruling in 2005 allowed patients to secure private care in Canada [2]. However, the Courier-Journal [3] reports that: >While Shouldice Hernia Hospital is privately owned — like many Canadian hospitals — it receives a majority of its funding from the Ontario government and accepts the Ontario’s Hospital Insurance Plan. which means that the government indeed pays for the costs of Canadian patients. And sure enough, the FAQ of the website of the actual hospital in question [4] states: >Ontario’s Hospital Insurance Plan (OHIP) covers all costs to Ontario residents for public ward rate hospital accommodation and physician services.
FYI, for US Citizens such as Paul [4]: >All patients who have submitted their medical questionnaire for assessment and have been qualified for surgery will receive a letter outlining our estimated fees specific to their stated surgical procedure and related hospital stay. Patients with private insurance coverage may be eligible for reimbursement on submission of paperwork provided to you. We do not bill insurance companies on your behalf, however, Shouldice Hospital has no-cost consultants trained to help you with your claim (as foreign insurance coverage is complicated we encourage all patients to pre-approve their coverage prior to admission). >All charges are payable on admission by credit card, bank draft or cash. So right now we are dealing with a situation where Rand Paul (who advocates against government provided healthcare) is going to a privately-owned hospital, where its costs are completely covered by the Government for Ontario citizens only (Non-Citizens must pay all costs unless they have private insurance which they must get pre-approved first). Because of this, we can therefore say that this particular hospital is NOT an example of "private hospitals", or the type of hospitals currently in the US. HOWEVER, Leftists then decide to use the Shouldice Hernia Hospital as definitive proof of the superiority of socialized medicine [5]. There have been numerous anecdotes of Canadians and their "horror" stories of their health care. Steven Crowder did an experiment on one Canadian hospital to show it's inefficiency (It's unknown whether the hospital is privately owned or paid completely by single-payer health care, but the costs for citizens are indeed subsidized by the Government) [6]
Leo Garcia
Now, let us ask the questions. I am personally for a privatized health-care system as I recognize that efficiency increases with a profit-incentive. But with the case of Shouldice Hernia Hospital, it appears that it is an efficient hospital that is mostly funded from the government [3] [4] (efficient because it was well enough for Rand to pick that hospital, and because it is "the only licensed hospital in the world dedicated to repairing hernias"). Question: Is it AT ALL possible that a government-funded healthcare system is able to conjure AT LEAST 1 efficient hospital? My initial reaction is "yes". Assuming that an efficient hospital will be an outlier in a govt-funded healthcare system, we can say that in ANY experiment, there will always be outliers. And it seems to be the case here. Another question: Does this automatically prove that socialized healthcare is therefore superior, as it has produced hospitals like the Shouldice Hernia Hospital? Well hold on. we can't judge a system just by looking at one single hospital. We have to judge by the efficiency of ALL the hospitals around Canada in order to make this conclusion. Aha! Here, it seems we could point to the infamous "Horrifying Canadian hospital experiences" that I mentioned before [6]. (Now here's where I have a problem at the moment. These stories that Canadians sometimes share, including the video by Steven Crowder, is only anecdotal. I currently lack any objective facts which measure the Canadian healthcare's efficiency or lack thereof. If anyone has any STATISTICAL information which show the state of Canadian health-care, that would be great.)
Zachary Brown
Anyway, say that someone did post statistics that undeniably show the inefficiency of Canadian health-care (something about waiting time, quality, etc). The leftist would then argue that, >"with a privatized healthcare system, the poor will not be able to afford going to the doctor anymore because privatized healthcare is expensive". Crowder's video, as an example, cites that a trip to a Canadian private hospital (without govt funding) would cost someone $900 [6]. But this can be countered easily, by mentioning the fiscal cost of supporting socialized medicine. This infographic here [6] shows that a Quebec resident is currently being taxed higher than a Californian, whose state is one of the highest taxed in the entire United States. Why is Canadian tax so high? Because of socialized medicine! Were healthcare to be privatized in Canada, then the average Canadian would then absolutely have enough money to pay for more efficient healthcare!
In conclusion, the way that I see it, You cannot blame Rand Paul for going to Shouldice Hernia Hospital. While it is clearly a very efficient hospital, and while it was created in a system that Rand Paul fights against, you cannot point to as proof that single-payer health care is superior, because if you look at the state of all the other hospitals in Canada, it simply isn't the case (again, only have anecdotal evidence [6]. Please provide stats!). Shouldice Hernia Hospital is simply an outlier.
Anyway, that's my take on it. What do you think? Discuss, and please point out any of my flaws and provide your own input into this matter.
its a private hospital and he paid cash, which is to be reimbursed by his crazed leftist attacker, rand is based and your a faggot
Brody Allen
You clearly didn't read anything I said. Especially the part where I state that I supported privatized healthcare & how I would counter people who use Shouldice Hernia Hospital as undeniable superiority of socialized medicine, while at the same time maintaining all the facts.
Also, *you're
Justin Adams
Bump
Daniel Cooper
This hospital caters exclusively to Americans. A Canadian paying for this surgery would be charged with illegally obtaining private health care and imprisoned. Only private health care allowed in Canada is abortion clinics founded by (((Morgenteller))).
>This hospital caters exclusively to Americans. No it isn't. I already mentioned this in my post in source [4]. >>Ontario’s Hospital Insurance Plan (OHIP) covers all costs to Ontario residents for public ward rate hospital accommodation and physician services.
>A Canadian paying for this surgery would be charged with illegally obtaining private health care and imprisoned. I'm questioning whether you actually read my post. source [2]: >A Canadian Supreme Court ruling in 2005 allowed patients to secure private care in Canada [2]. Not an argument you fucking canuck
Jackson Hernandez
He sought out and is using a private surgeon that he feels is best for his needs using his own cash.
What is this supposed to prove you dumb nigger
Jack Brooks
I live near that hospital I wonder if I can get his autograph
Landon Flores
I'm proving how you can't make the claim that a single payer health care system is superior just using this canadian hospital as the basis, you stupid nigger. In case you haven't realized, I'm on your side.
Liam Bailey
>Private Clinics. In addition to public health care providers such as primary care doctors and hospitals, many private clinics offering specialized services also operate in Canada. Under federal law, private clinics are not legally allowed to provide services covered by the Canada Health Act.
Can I get a source on this? Also, in case you haven't realized, I support a privatized health care & I'm arguing why people are stupid for thinking that this one Canadian hospital is somehow proof that single-payer health care is superior. It would have been pretty easy to understand if you would have just read my post.
William Richardson
I didn't read your post because you are ignorant of how Canada works. A Leaf cannot receive private health care in Canada. Legally, a health care provider (with the exception of a beastly abortionist) cannot bill a Canadian for health services outside of the public health care system or risk going to jail or being fined obscene fines. A foreigner coming into Canada is fine.
Yandex it you lazy fuck. And I should note many top specialists in Canada do contract work in the USA which is legal, they just can't help you in Canada.
I just realized that the case that I was talking about (Chaoulli v Quebec (AG)) only applies to Quebec, and not anywhere outside their province when it comes to being able to buy healthcare. Again, a link to your source would be nice. But ultimately, whether all Canadians have a choice of getting private health care or not is inconsequential to my case in showing why that this canadian hospital isn't definitive evidence that socialized healthcare works.
William Ortiz
Not in Alberta, New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island or Saskatchewan. Opted-in physicians can bill patients directly at any time for insured services. In other provinces they are not allowed to bill the patients.
In the other 6 provinces, physicians must give up their rights to be paid from the public plan for the period during which they want to bill patients directly. This is accomplished either by opting out of the public plan entirely or, as in British Columbia, by electing to receive payment from sources other than the public plan without completely opting out of it under the Medicare protection act, RSBC 1996, c. 286, ss. 14(1), s. 17(2)(c)(i).
Blake Baker
A DOCTOR CANNOT FUCKING PROVIDE PRIVATE HEALTH CARE WITHOUT SHITLISTING THEMSELVES
