Has there ever actually been an attempt to reform European pagan faiths into an organised religion during the middle ages?
It's understandable that Norse Germanic pagans never did, why would a priest spend his life learning to write and compile a sacred scripture when he's going to go to Hell if he doesn't die in battle, even if he succeeds nad gains followers.
But there must've been something of value in certain pagan faiths that people weren't willing to give and abandon for Christianity.
And did they really perform human sacrifice? From what I read, it was actually pretty rare.
There are recorded incidents of resistance to Christianity and "reconversions" to local pagan beliefs in Häme region of Finland in Middle Ages, but it was mostly due to bad church administration of Catholic church in Finnish areas. Christianity really started to take root here only after protestant reformation of Sweden when state started to care about if people go to church.
From what I read, the Finnish religions were very tribal and differed based on tribe. Yes, it must be hard to reconvert when you told have a lot of content besides some deities and rituals, no book or specific rituals. I'm assuming the lords that ruled Finland were all Christian though
>But there must've been something of value in certain pagan faiths that people weren't willing to give and abandon for Christianity.
That happened all the time, every time some cuck shouts about how Christian traditions have pagan roots is an example. If they weren't Deus Vulting the Christians were adopting pagan practices that made sense and bound communities together. The religion was surprisingly flexible, and it's probably why you had heresy and shit like Celtic Christianity pop up. The faith could rather easily mix into other cultures but also allowed for easy splintering.
Plethon Gemistos
Currently reading this
>Celtic Christianity
There was also Norse Christianity. The people adopted Christianity and its Gods but most kept their beliefs and practices the same, sort of contonued to worship Thor and Odin but changed the names to Jesus and Yahweh. These Christians also very much irritated the Pope, as he saw it as heretic. A Pope once led a campaing into Scandinavia to restore traditional Catholicism but the Norse Christians BTFO'd him.
They also built churches like this which looked like the scales of dragons. Definitely not Roman architecture lol.
are you trying to suggest that not everything in Crusader Kings II is 100% historically accurate?
So when my Irish Emperor whose two sons ruled over the Kingdom of Jerusalem and the Kingom of Thrace respectively discovered the key to immortality from an African pagan woman he'd invited to his court, that wasn't based on a real historical event?
Nah. Even in the middle ages they new paganism was larping bs
They were Christian yes, but the rule in general was at best decentralized and at worst anarchist for first centuries of Swedish rule. Finnish paganism was a diverse bunch indeed, it was mostly animism with faith in different spirits of nature. One quite commonly shared spiritual aspect between different tribes was bear worship, that's been common among siberian tribes too.
>varg upon seeing that image
That's your playthrough though, but the practices in the game are supposed to be based on real life
He actually talked about them and praised how the old Norwegians hanged onto their culture.
Weren't the Churches Varg burned down mostly protestant? so no loss
it's unironically great for learning history
he burned wooden stave churches exactly like those
>Weren't the Churches Varg burned down mostly protestant?
it's Norway... what else would they be?
My wife is mad I'm having sex with our mum
I do not know for certain about other protestant countries, but over here every single old catholic church is now a lutheran church.
so he burned protestant stave churches? did he actually burn down churches or is that an allegation?
>tfw you occupy both Jerusalem and Constantinople
Holy shit LARPers are retarded. "Paganism" isn't a religion, it's a term. It's the religious equivalent to "barbarian." It's mostly lumped together because all we know about paganism is through Christian scribes who wanted to preserve history. You sincerely have to be retarded to unironically follow paganism. It's like wanting to identify as a barbarian nationalist.
Yeah, like the time the tribal Afghanis reformed the Zunist faith and wiped Islam off the face of the earth.
>did he actually burn down churches or is that an allegation?
found guilty of 4 stave church burnings
We cant really start Paganism until we decide to go back to being warlike. When that happens our enemies better not relax.
What countey are you? Is this from the Charlemagne DLC?
Paradox should seriously do something about the pre-mongol steppe hordes, they can do ridiculous things and cause irrepairable border gore.
what a fucking retard. he makes some interesting videos but only an autist retard would destroy historical churches
I'm Ireland.
I have all of the DLC installed including Holy Fury, all activated except Sunset Invasion.
I did the Viking Age start in 867 as the Dál Fiatach dynasty of Ulaidh/Ulster.
yeah, I hadn't even been paying attention to what Cumania was up to, it's pretty absurd how they managed to take over most of Scandinavia.
I'm guessing it will fall apart soon enough.
But it's not insanely unrealistic either, considering this was Cumania in 1200
Good luck with Cumania
Not sure how I feel about Varg.
When I first found him I thought he was interesting because he was putting the 14 words into action, being self sufficient and trying to preserve trad Nordic culture (Varg seems to have done much more then Spencer, whom I despise from a fascist &/Or cultural-nationalist perspective).
Then I found out about his crimes & my firm beliefs in fascism had me torn. crime and disloyalty to the state (thereby disloyalty to your countrymen, in most cases, obviously not all) was abhorrent to me. Additionally destory historical objects, sites etc. should be one of the first capital punishment worthy crimes. Can anyone tell me, does his good messages out way his bad actions and bad ideas (e.g. that we should not take part in the political system in order to affect change)?
Or should he be ignored & treated like an insane Nord supremacist?
Also I'm of Welsh, Irish & Eternal Anglo decent so would he classify me as white?
TLDR, Is Varg shit or not?
Roman emperor Julian the apostate tried to build a centralized pagan equivalent of the church but it never really took off
listen to him if you want, he makes good points sometimes. just keep in the back of your mind that he's not worthy of your full respect.
>Also I'm of Welsh, Irish & Eternal Anglo decent so would he classify me as white?
There's a quote in Lords of Chaos where he says looking into brown eyes is like looking into puddles of shit, but that people with brown eyes aren't fully subhuman because some of them are capable of siring blue eyed children.
Who the fuck thinks like that?
WHAT!
Why no Sunset Invasion boi? Best expansion, Eagle warrior best warrior & all dat. Shieeeeeeeeet. But then again I never play in the Ummayad or Francia so I never really need to fight them.
This is either the face of someone who doesn't know wtf is going on at the moment, or the face of someone who thinks going to jail for 20ish years for murder and burning down historical buildings is funny.
Retard or mad?
>Good luck with Cumania
thanks, they're not anywhere near my borders though so I'll probably never have to deal with them. we'll see.
>Why no Sunset Invasion boi?
I'm actually not all that experienced with the game, so I mostly just don't want to deal with a ridiculously OP Aztec invasion. Also, playing as Ireland I assume I'd be one of their prime targets since I'm so far West.
jesus, with all the DLC it costs hundreds. i got the £50 package when it was 80% off a few months ago so it was relatively cheap.
this game can create some strange worlds
I would worry more about the next mongol wargod who's gonna get all that juicy Cumanian land and much more. There's always gonna be a badass Attila Khan 2.0 among those steppe hordes.
>Who the fuck thinks like that?
>Or should he be ignored & treated like an insane Nord supremacist?
Thank you, you answered my question.
I do have blue eyes & blonde hair but the idea of casting out your countrymen for having the wrong eye or hair colour. There is having standards, then there is purity spiraling, clearly he is the latter. Also the whole church burning stuff.
Are you stupid? In the mid 850s Scandinavia was Pagan! Christianity was just barely becoming known, in the Baltics, it took even longer, it wasn't until the 1500s that some part became fully "Christian". Lithuania, in particular still had practicing pagans in the 1800s, and their brand of Christianity is very particular to them. Pic related
>jesus, with all the DLC it costs hundreds.
That's why I pirate most of it.
nothing more cringeworthy than contemporary pagans
Its size is a bit misleading. They have a lot of large and empty wasteland counties. Even in the game, the Kingdom of Hungary has significantly more counties despite Cumania appearing so huge
In my last game, Denmark moved to Italy and converted to Sunni and lasted for maybe 200 years as a 1 county Kingdom just north of Rome.
>this game can create some strange worlds
yeah, note that West Francia is already completely BTFO on my 1091 map and doesn't even exist.
I assume they'll have a peasant uprising sooner or later.
>Is real life just like in muh Somalian vidya gaems?
I know they used to have a chance of landing in England (maybe they still can, I have Sunset invasion on all the time but I havent had it occur in ages) but if they don't they usually won't cross the channel. If they do, your fucked. Also why play the Eire? Play as Alt-clut, reclaim the old north and show the world the glory of the Cymry
Cucked Dane is cucked
*pic related
I've had a game where Jewish educator of Italy-Burgundy converted underage inbred king of Italy-Burgundy to Judaism and by some Jewish trickery the bastard lived until his 30s and survived countless holy wars and revolts against him. I was creating Visigoth sultanate in North Africa and it was entertaining to watch.
Sweden wasn't fully christian until the 1800's as well. I have a plank at home found in one of our fields. It has some strange runegalder on it and the year 1772 on it. So a combo of "modern" writing and obvious pagan belief (the runegalder).
also, this is said about a village not far from here:
"
"In the beginning of the Christian doctrine's entry into the village, Norrviksborne were very wicked, why the priest in the town vehemently reproached them for their evil. In anger over the Norrviks, in agreement with the inhabitants of Sörviken (Grönviken's), took the priest and rowed him out to a large, over. water-raising stone, in the middle of the lake between Norrviken and Sörviken, which today is called the Prieststone, put the priest on the stone and left him there, the intention was to let him starve to death. [1]
But the priest was swimmersome and swam ashore at Monäset (previously also called "Mordnäset"). [1] The Norrvik residents, however, had been alerted to him, and fit him at the beach where they killed him. For this reason, the village was forever carrying the nasty name Mordviken."
The notion that you have to die in battle in Norse paganism or you will go to the underworld is wrong and a weird hollywood interpretation.
You wont go to Valhal if you dont, because thats the hall of fallen warriors but as long as you have lived a life as an honorable and good person, you would be carried to the same realm that Valhal resides in.
Even those who did not or e.g killed themself will still have a shot at "heaven" by passing the test that is traversing Helvegen.
Just trying to clear things up, theres alot of misconceptions - i am by no means an expert but a believer thats still studying it in its infancy.
>Denmark moved to Italy
you mean they conquered parts of italy then lost their lands in denmark? fucking kek.
In my game I have Norse Christian Poland, a far off Christian branch of my dynasty ruled lands in dejure Poland for a while.
also, i essentially genocided the sami people. and every time swedish or norwegian culture appears in my realm, i just set it back to old norse lol. my norse ethnostate
>Also why play the Eire?
Because I was told it's "tutorial island" even though that's not really true for the Viking Age start. I have over 250 hours into the game but until this playthrough I still felt like a beginner.
>Has there ever actually been an attempt to reform European pagan faiths into an organised religion during the middle ages?
No, because European paganism was like Japanese spiritualism and never had an organized faith. Just a local priesthood. Left to its own devices, it might have however.
They sacrificed prisoners and war captives, just like everyone else did. Nearly all of the "sacrifice" shit is Christian memeing from the middle ages while intentionally hiding their own crimes. Vikings would kill prisoners they didn't intend to use as slaves before returning to Denmark, for example, both to appease the god of the sea and also because they often didn't have the food and cargo space for randoms. But Christians look at that and go "OMG SO PAGAN SO BAD!" Meanwhile, Christians did the same shit putting prisoners in their galleys to be used as rowmen until they died, and also regularly executed, raped, and enslaved war captives. Charlemagne killed thousands of pagan Saxon men, women, and children for the crime of not believing in his Jewish god, and Christians still venerate him.
it was a crazy time
>i am by no means an expert but a believer
>literally believing in Odin
kek
I wish it had. Despite the fucking new age hippys claiming to be Pagans, I see it coming back. White people are sick of sharing their religion with shitskins and they cannot be European pagans.
Fkrgot my picture. Does this look like the Christ of a happy, faithful, BRLIEVING people?
(you)
It was more like ritual execution of criminals. Of course it varied from culture to culture.
>Clueless Brits think he knows history
More like it was adopted by nobility first and it trickled down from there over a couple of centuries. They didn't practice a mix-version. It was more like some remote areas simply kept practicing the old ways, but the younger generations from those areas did not
No he wasn't! What the fuck ma! I don't understand how anyone can post shit that isn't true with such certainty, fuck!
It never really took off because Julian died before he could do anything with it. He hadn't even finished kicking Christians and Jews out of the administration when the Persians cut his head off.
Julian was truly the last Classical Roman Emperor. Everyone after him was just a King LARPing as Emperor.
>Philosopher
>Military-Endower for the elite and oligarchic
>Wore a toga at all times
>Grand plans
>Huge aims
>Crippling hubris
>HUBRIS
>Said hubris gets him killed like a moron
RIP
Catholicism is powerful as fuck in my game. I am the Sword of Jesus.
>Definitely not Roman architecture lol.
This is the oldest preserved church in Sweden (of the ones still in original condition). Looks pretty Roman to me. It's from the 12th century
You can’t though, unless you’re a gayreek.
Wrong.
Warriors do go to Valhall. But even the gods must go to hel. Hel isn't some hot place full of demons, it's basically this world we are in right now.
I'm getting more and more convinced that this is the case. This IS hel. This is one world we must endure until we are born again in another world.
Absolutely correct, the Baltic and Scandinavia were the very last to convert and their Christianity was nothing like the zealous insanity practiced in the rest of Europe.
Pic related, another Lithuaninan Christ.
Not entirely true, there is great indication that worship continued among nobles and elites as well. We have Runic inscriptions in the 1300s at Bryggen with prayers to Odin and Thor, 1300s. Also the last pagan graves are from around 1100 in uplands Norway. Poor people never got graves in paganism, just rich elites.
>*rothoPLEBS in Sicily
>powerful
I bet you aren't even installing your retarded younger brother as Pope every generation, are you? And you call yourself a Defender of the Faith.
Im not wrong retard, you read my post incorrectly.
I never said Hel is a hot place full of demons, what the fuck are you still on about
Helvegen and Hel is not the same
Allegation. All though they he did kind of promote it.
retard
I just KNOW this meme was made by a mutt.
For anyone else that doesn't know:
DER JUDE=The jew (Singular, male)
DIE JUDIN=The jewess
DIE JUDEN=The jews
Why do Christcucks get so scared when people discuss this topic? Really makes you think. What do you care what I believe in if we share 99% of beliefs?
>And did they really perform human sacrifice?
very very rare.
some tribes sacrificed humans to Hela, daughter of Loki, to get strength during wars. but it was not a normal thing to do. and onlly non germanics / outsiders / homosexuals etc. they never sacrificed their own people.
>I bet you aren't even installing your retarded younger brother as Pope every generation, are you?
desu, I don't pay that much attention to the Pope, I just give him gold whenever it boosts his opinion of me. they always die so often anyway.
It's true for a 1066 start
What's the point? Nobody believes in the gods anymore. They're nothing but children's stories and marvel's movies. So what would be the point?
The irony of a papist saying that
Shinto is organized. There are multiple layers of organization that developed over centuries. European pagans could have done the same thing in the Middle Ages, but without an Imperial Family it would have fallen apart. Also Medieval Christianity is an exclusive religion that only really tolerated Jews, and just barely, whereas the organized missionary religion Japan got was Buddhism, which isn't exclusive, so Shinto and Buddhism syncreticized. European paganism, or at least the bad parts of it, never stood a chance. Good riddance.
None of those are stave churches and all of those churches are from 19th century or later. The church in Oslo for example was built like a stave church but it is from the 20th century.
>Why do Christcucks get so scared when people discuss this topic?
because for pagans the greatest enemies are not mudslimes but christcucks. they did way more damage to germanics and europe in general than mudslimes ever dream of.
if there were really is a neo pagan revival then christcucks would be the very first to be skinned alive. muslims would automatically leave out of fear.
Fucking with the Vatican is fun, but I agree that it's honestly not that important. Once you get powerful enough you can do anything on your own that you otherwise could with the Pope's help. Crusade? Who cares, just declare a war on your own. Divorce? Who cares, just kill your wife and get another.
>Muslim polar bear
That's fucking stupid.
To be fair, Charlemagne had the thought process of a pagan, except his God he fought for was Jesus. I believe they estimated that in today's demographics, the amount of people he killed compared to the population, it would be like he beheaded 180,000 people. even the prophet muhammad would be impressed.
you know better than me, swede. i didn't say their religion didn't fade, just pointed out how a misunderstanding of christianity managed to BTFO the Pope. this is pretty common in south america as well, they might dress it up like they are catholics, but they very much think and act like aztec and maya pagans.
why is catholicism green in some areas? what is that?
okay, so catholics had a huge impact on sweden. btw, is it true your holy crown from the height of the kingdom of sweden was stolen not long ago?
You're confusing fear with disdain.
I like him, some of his theory’s are out there. Pol will smear him and exaggerate shit about him because of the amount of crusader larpers and kike shills on here. I think he’s a great guy, the guy he killed was planning on killing him and was ANTIFA teir anyway.
Watch his YouTube channel.
>I see it coming back.
It is.
We are not hippies.
Not really called Neo-pagans either. Germanic Pagans or Heathens is a better word.
Christians might have done more damage technically but our current enemy is not christcucks, thats any shade of sandnigger scum on our soil.
yea that muslims ruler kid was too scared to fight me 1vs1
he's bear-ber
He doesn’t believe that anymore.
>Crusade? Who cares, just declare a war on your own.
It might be because of the new Holy Fury DLC, but the rewards for participating in Crusades for me were insanely awesome, especially after the First Crusade of Jerusalem.
>Cuckolded: -43200
kek. couldn't be more Jow Forums: the game if it tried.