Why does Communism gets a pass when it's obvious they lied about everything they promised?
Communist promised classless society, "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", free shit, democracy, a literal utopia. All they delivered was same as their view of Capitalism, only now you couldn't even revolt because you were living in Democratic People's Republic of Communism.
>inb4 communism in nutshell is good, nazism is bad
At least Nazis didn't lie about their intentions, you got what you saw. I'll take those who tell the truth no matter how horrible they are instead of lying handrubbing conniving Bolshevik shit.
well, capitalism already served it's purpose, so now ((they)) aim to get TOTAL control over the population, coming under a guise of a rebellion against the system, thus communism = zionism and zionism can't be bad because that's antisemitic
James Ramirez
>At least Nazis didn't lie about their intentions, you got what you saw.
What kind of nonsensical argument is this
Communism is universalistic and speaks very deeply to every human being because everybody depends on a fundamental level on economic relations. Also communism is much more rationalistic and clear
While Nazism is particularistic and it relies on some murky mysticism which isn't as clear as communism, which scares a lot of people
People tend to view communism as much more reasonable than Nazism
Anthony Richardson
Because when people say communism they refer to far left ideas which on itself is a broad term. When people say Nazism they usually refer to the ideology of the National socialist party
Which communists ? Ruskies ? Cuban ? Libyan ? All that unifies far left ideologies is the sentence "the workers should control the means of production". Also, you do realize that no far left government ever intended to make a state where "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" is actually applicable - it's a catch phrase, a distant goal never to be achieved. >I respect Nazis because they set out to exterminate millions of people and they at least made their promise Jeez, Yugoslav communists had it easy with you. I wish there were Gulags in Yugoslavia so that Croat faggots like you could spend the rest of their pathetic lives in.
also this There's a big difference between >I want for the workers to manage themselves and >I want to exterminate all the ethnicities I perceive as lower race
cunt
Jackson Rivera
Why does capitalism get a pass when capitalists lie about absolutely everything they promise?
Gavin Rivera
>speaks very deeply to every human being
No, just the little jealous people. Only weak morons believe in equality. Government-enforced, of course. They're either stupid, lazy, or both.
Jacob Hernandez
Nobody REALLY cares about millions of deaths before their time. Nobody cares about history or faraway places. People who are losers in the current world, are easy to persuade that their problems are due to "Late Capitalism," and easy to lead into revolutionary ideas, that promise to handsomely reward them. That's all it is.
Isaac King
Easy: Any government without oversight and penalties will turn corrupt.
Henry James
>No, just the little jealous people. Why is it "jealousy" when the working poor ask for the bare minimum required to survive? Is that not just self-interest and doing what is necessary to ensure one's survival and comfort?
Nolan Gutierrez
There were no actual communist states. All of them were actually socialist states with the end goal being communism
Landon Edwards
Nazism is not about eradicating lesser races, it's improving your own. Nazism is also not White Nationalist, it's German Nationalism.
John Sullivan
Your mistake here is assuming any retard on this board understands basic Marxist terminology.
Brandon Miller
The OP does not say, "there were communist states," he said there were communists, and that they lied.
Aaron Hernandez
>he said there were communists, and that they lied Meanwhile every single politician and business leader in every single capitalist liberal democracy lies about literally everything and they get a free pass.
Camden Bennett
>Nazism is not about eradicating lesser races, it's improving your own Yeah, the German race really improved after gassing millions of "lesser" races. I'm glad the pendulum swings back
If we're going to argue semantics like a bunch of dimwit retards I should clarify that by "ask" I meant "demand". You should understand by now that Marxists advocate for the seizure of the means of production by means of violent revolution, if you consider that "feminine" I wonder what you think of the American revolution of your own country's history.
Carson Barnes
Capitalist lies tend to have more food and a lower body count going for them
Parker Cruz
>thinks nazis wanted to exterminate every person without blind hair. Meme is old slavic faggot.
Owen Evans
>what is Mein Kampf
Hudson Hughes
>gassing millions Ptttbth dude no way millions were gassed. The majority died from being worked to death, some were gassed and others shot. Especially later in the war. They didn't fucking list go and gas their entire work force, plus they had no way of moving millions on rail lines that were being used to move tons of concrete, steel, sand, etc. for big projects such as Der Reise. Berlin Flak Towers, Atlantic wall, Siegfried line, etc. Furthermore rails were packed moving equipment, tanks, trucks, supplies and troops as well. Get real.
Hudson Watson
Show me the passage in mein kampf where Hitler says "all non blond and non blue eyed people will be gassed or exterminated".
Jackson Foster
No they didn't promise a classless society, that happens after Socialism.
>"from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" That's communism, not socialism, as Lenin made abundantly clear. The motto in socialism is "to each according to his labour".
>free shit Not technically what they promised and not technically what they had. In socialism the workers get the social product of their labour back, in the form of monetary compensation and socialized services, such as free housing (which they got, you didn't pay for rent in the USSR, only utilities), social healthcare which they got, free education which they got ect.
>democracy Which they got.
>a literal utopia Marxism isn't utopian moron. Marxism is anti-utopian.
Just because didn't read anything doesn't mean they lied.
Chase Thompson
They didn't have democracy, are you kidding?
Landon Cruz
owning the media means never having to say you're sorry because you can memory-hole anything.
I know it's from plebbit but it is just a cited list of killings perpetrated by capitalists in the past 100 years for your viewing pleasure. Capitalism is violent, it has always been violent, capitalists are just good at dressing it up as if the violence were somehow justified.
>he majority died from being worked to death, some were gassed and others shot Oh well that's alright then. By the way, Marxism is so useful because its so universally applicable. For example, in explaining nazism. The reason the Germans cast the jews and slavs as inferior is to justify enslaving and genociding them and colonize slavic land because they didn't have the capital necessary to compete with Britain and France.
They did have democracy. It wasn't a liberal democracy, but it was just as if not more democratic than the USA or Britain. I mean, people say Stalin was a dictator, the dude was fucking voted into his position and tried to resign 4 times, being rejected each time.
Jackson Johnson
>he was voted in Stalin never wanted to resign, he was a dictator plain and simple. Read the book The Dictators, it goes in depth on Hitler and Stalin. Stalinism is not even close to communism or Marxism, he was an authoritarian who was a massive cunt to his people and even his party members.
Doesnt make it alright then but it shows that the narrative is off, plus who gives a fuck?
The west allowed the Soviets to occupy, oppress and murder people. The holocaust isn't the worst human crime out there but its cast up like it is.
Ryder Bell
They absolutely did though, just because it wasn't liberal party democracy as you know it doesn't mean it wasn't democracy. In fact it was more democratic than liberal democracies are today considering every modern party in almost every supposedly democratic country is just a faction of the all-encompassing "business party".
If you're just going to give book recommendations I would recommend you read "Khrushchev Lied" by Grover Furr.
Charles Reyes
Why don't you read Stalin's attempt to resign?
>It is said that in that “will” Comrade Lenin suggested to the congress that in view of Stalin’s “rudeness” it should consider the question of putting another comrade in Stalin’s place as General Secretary. That is quite true.
>Yes, comrades, I am rude to those who grossly and perfidiously wreck and split the Party. I have never concealed this and do not conceal it now. Perhaps some mildness is needed in the treatment of splitters, but I am a bad hand at that.
>At the very first meeting of the plenum of the Central Committee after the Thirteenth Congress I asked the plenum of the Central Committee to release me from my duties as General Secretary. The congress itself discussed this question. It was discussed by each delegation separately, and all the delegations unanimously, including Trotsky, Kamenev and Zinoviev, obliged Stalin to remain at his post.
>What could I do? Desert my post? That is not in my nature; I have never deserted any post, and I have no right to do so, for that would be desertion. As I have already said before, I am not a free agent, and when the Party imposes an obligation upon me, I must obey.
>A year later I again put in a request to the plenum to release me, but I was again obliged to remain at my post. What else could I do?
"Stalinism" isn't a thing, it was just Marxism-Leninism applied to the USSR. And no, Stalin didn't kill "millions" of people. Its utter bullshit.
Jordan Lopez
Yeah I gave a recommendation, it's a great book. Very in depth analysis of Hitler and Stalin as well as their political parties and ideologies. Structure in both government and society.
The fact is Stalin wasn't a good guy, he was just as much a dictator as Hitler. There are numerous writings and records, even from the Soviet archives, that show the various orders and atrocities Stalin committed. He wasn't even that good of a leader. He purged his own military, which left the Soviet Union immensely weak which only helped Operation Barbarossa work so well in the beginning. He also ignored numerous warnings about the coming offensive. He murdered a number of his own party members and people he saw as a threat to his status.
Alexander Rivera
Funny how the far-right will be so quick to dismiss the substantial, undeniable evidence of the holocaust while consuming wholeheartedly the absolutely baseless Cold War propaganda suggesting that Stalin killed "millions" of people with zero evidence of any kind, photographic or otherwise, behind it.
Jackson Williams
If you read the book I recommended you will see that all those supposed events were highly, highly exaggerated and most of them were outright fabricated by the Khrushchevites following Stalin's death.
Read the book Stalin's Genocides Norman M. Naimark
There are more sources out there even. Face it the dude was not some saint.
David Scott
I said lower, not none
Jackson Adams
>Communism is universalistic and speaks very deeply to every human being because everybody depends on a fundamental level on economic relations. Also communism is much more rationalistic and cleaar
Youre the dumbest motherfucker alive. you stupid commies NEVER consider human nature and human nature is why communism fails every single time and always will because human nature is unavoidable. .
Over 66 million deaths in 100 years under capitalism using an incomplete list, sounds pretty horrifically violent to me.
Liam Martinez
Saying "human nature" isn't an argument.
John White
You've listed the fucking eastern front in there man. Also civil wars that are being fought due to communist uprisings. That's the vast majority of those numbers.
Chase Sullivan
>"from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" user, that's a promise to bring hell to earth. That promise was kept. youtube.com/watch?v=KCmJUobwKQk
Eli Watson
You should "Khruschev Lied" by Grover Furr. Also, there is a LOT of hypocrisy surrounding Stalin and communism in general. For example, they point to Stalin's "political repression". Yes, Stalin imprisoned and sometimes executed terrorists, wreckers and people seeking to overthrow the state, so does every country. The USA regularly does this, sometimes illegally (such as the murder of Fred Hampton).
Luke Richardson
How is the Eastern Front not an example of total capitalist, anti-communist, imperialist violence? The Soviets were literally defending themselves from unprovoked capitalist aggression. And I don't know why you wouldn't count civil wars either.
Evan Lewis
Stalin was as good boy all those people went home and lived a long happy life.
All forms Marxist utopianism have failed,as well as Ayn Rand's global capitalism. Every ideology emerging from the 20th century has helped destroy Western Civilization.
Andrew Myers
20c was a disaster for economics, every theory that came to prominence was a spectacular failure as the field moved away from the only grounds on which it could have been considered a science, those of pure reason.
Jack Hernandez
A red dictator is just as bad as any other dictator, got it. That really sounds worth a class war and societal restructuring to earn.
A few points. The capitalist powers fought on Russia's side you dolt. Lend-lease? Russia were aggressors in Poland and Finland. Russia was also a dictatorship, an oligarchy in communist dressing, which incidentally is the most common outcome of a revolution by far.
Civil wars started by revolutionaries are hardly an example of those same revolutionaries being unjustly attacked.
Evan Barnes
None of that answers either of my questions, the point is capitalists kill a shitload of people and to deny that is to absolutely deny historical reality.
Jeremiah Gomez
Good thing Marxism is actually from the 19th century :)
James Nelson
Less, not none. Eastern front doesn't count at all.
Much less of their own citizenry.
Nolan Diaz
>Eastern front doesn't count at all. Why though?
Angel White
it didnt go pro until 20c
Michael Thompson
Capitalist nations were allied with Russia
Aiden Miller
Because the people who write history books sympathize with communists, the people who make sure the right books get on the curriculum sympathize with communists, and the people who tell you about how the present relates to the past sympathize with communists. That's it, and it is almost certainly intentional.
Stalin wasn't a dictator, and if you're a communist you should know better than to attribute events to one person. Individuals don't have absolute power and don't dictate the course of history, material conditions do. Did Hitler have absolute power? No, he may have been a "dictator", but the real influence in the Nazi party belonged to industrialists and capitalist like Draxler. If Hitler hadn't existed, they would found another "Hitler".
A governemtn and state is not made up of one person. Stalin was elected and did not make all the decisions, in fact the Yagoda-Yezhov terror happened because he let too much power go to the NKVD.
Samuel Martin
Boy, I heard of reaching... but this is a whole new level
Asher Baker
How is that image not the same kind of shit as declaring communism killed 100 gorillion people? You can't say "communism kills" while totally ignoring the monumental death doll accrued by capitalist nations.
Dylan Harris
>Start violent revolution >It kills tens, hundreds of thousands, or even millions >Government is ousted and replaced no matter how good it was >Immediately gets undone by like 5 guys in the CIA >Horrible pro-western dictator is established >This happens dozens of times >Communists are planning for the next attempt even as the last one ends in disaster for themselves and the people they were supposed to help Gas or helicopter, helping the USSR in WW2 was the worst mistake we ever made. >Monarchies are capitalist >Military dictatorships are capitalists >Niggers being niggers are capitalist Reminder that communists only want to be the ultimate power in society, and can't come out and say that they want to be a dictator, so they shroud themselves in a veneer of sympathy in the hopes of tricking rich fools into supporting the destruction of their own nation.
Because your image makes retarded linkages (capitalism and the world wars? okay sport) while the linkage between communist ideology of various regimes and mass murder or starvation of they own people is objective.
Liam Sanchez
I think many fascists would disagree with that characterization. I don't hold them in better terms than the reds myself. Disdain for collectivists.
Germany put itself very firmly outside the free market world community.
Fair, that was shorthand. How does 'Stalin and his inner circle persued excessive personal power and actively worked to build a centralised state' work for you?
Justin Phillips
Okay your first point is totally meaningless and monarchies, military dictatorships and "niggers being niggers" all qualify as capitalist if... get this... capitalism is their economic system.
And if you're such a caring humanitarian that puts such great importance in preserving human life I wonder why you post funny pics of Nazis massacring people. The reality is you don't really care about human life you just want your deluded ideology to come out on top. Fair enough. Don't think we won't treat you the same way though.
Thomas Scott
Also call me callous, but I care a lot more about class based massacres at home than bombing people abroad.
Lincoln King
Oh I see, when a capitalist kills someone it's for some other/good reason, but when a communist kills someone it is because the ghost of Karltural Marx and Dr. Frank Furtschool told him to do it because communism. Cool point.
Chase Stewart
>Germany put itself very firmly outside the free market world community. By privatizing all their industries, making trade unions illegal and having a capitalist economic system?
Leo Stewart
Your class warfare ideology leads directly to mass murder of villainous classes, the private property ideology doesnt. Deal with it sunshine
Jace Stewart
No, I want as many people as possible to succeed in life. If that means a few have to fail so that the broader society may thrive, then so be it. You, of course, are not a human, you are a rat in human clothing, so losing your talent of destabilizing society so that you can add another digit onto your perfect ideology's body count is no moral issue. Of course, you and your reverse-santa dindu nuffin wrong, everything you and your ilk do is actually capitalism's fault, and everything bad in the world is caused by the same fundamental interaction that evolution works off of and which created humanity.
>the private property ideology doesnt How can you honestly even say something so idiotic? Almost all acts of mass violence occur in some way due to people fighting over what property they think belongs to them or think they have some sort of "right" to.
Brayden Ortiz
That's not the point. Its the fact you're ignoring the real problems the USSR was facing. If you were Stalin, how would you have dealt with the Trotskyist left bloc that were committing terrorism and trying to overthrow the USSR? How would you have dealt with wrecking and fascist infiltration? Things happen for a reason.
Kayden Gutierrez
Communism doesnt get a pass, not here, its almost wholeheartedly rejected
Levi Perez
>No, I want as many people as possible to succeed in life. If you really wanted that you would be a socialist, rest of your post is just a mentally insane rant so I'm not going to address it.
Luke Young
Fighting to steal property is not capitalist, because capitalism is a private property ideology, not a "rule of might" ideology. I'm arguing with a teenager aren't I?
Lincoln Davis
Are you implying they had no other option than to be practically useless and therefore low earners?
Sounds like some people just don't appreciate that freedom comes with option to make choices that are directly bad for you too...
Gillette's anti Male commercial and satanic history of Proctor and Gamble ,,,,,,, Also Mods STOP deleting truth and good info! Jannies are gay as fuck
Caleb Carter
Weren't Stallin's people the terrorists? Aren't they the ones who sabotaged Trotsky? The guy that was recommended by Lennin to lead the union?
Jeremiah Nelson
By repeatedly invading its neighbors, for which it was policed.
Stalin did what he had to, I'm sure. A shame that it turns out that way for essentially all communist revolutions. If the utopia were possible it might even seem worth the blood. As it is, the whole exercise appears pointless and self-defeating.
Never mind the blithely optimistic manifestos, practical results show a tendency for centralization not dispersion of power.
Carter Perry
"Private property" itself only exists due to physical force being used to enforce people's compliance with the ideology. Private property can not fundamentally exist without violence.
Captcha is absolutely shitting on me and making me answer 10 in a row to even post once for some reason.
Michael Williams
>By repeatedly invading its neighbors, for which it was policed. Doesn't make them any less capitalist, I admit they were alienated from most of the world for being pieces of shit though, but it had little to do with their market structure.
Samuel Roberts
If you are willing to steal other peoples property it means you do not respect the moral law of private property and therefore cannot be an ideological capitalist.
Samuel Ross
lol no. Trotsky was a terrorist that worked with the Nazis to try and overthrow the USSR. A butthurt chauvinistic egotist who mad as fuck a random Georgian "thug" was more intelligent than him and got more votes than him. He was given every oppertunity to self-criticize and follow the party, instead he went back to his old Menshevik tendencies and tried to split the party, and when that didn't succeed he killed Stalin's best friend Kirov in spite. Fuck Trotsky. Also, Lenin's will didn't say he wanted Trotsky to succeed him, it said he wanted someone like Stalin but thought Stalin was too rude and crass. This myth that Trotsky was Lenin's right man is ridiculous.
The same forces that ended the USSR gaurentee the continued struggle of the working class and future revolutions. Class conflict is going to continue until we either destroy ourselves or communism is reached.
That's a cop-out and you know it. The entire reason stealing/taking and its ensuing conflict would occur is because both believe firmly in the ideology of private property, both parties believe property to be rightly theirs. In reality property can not materially be "owned" and they are fighting over something that belongs to nobody inherently, the conflict only exists if everyone agrees that private property is even a thing.
Jayden Gutierrez
Mmmm. You're not going to find me being too supportive of them, man. Apologies if it seems like goalpost shifting but I'm not a collectivist and so have always preferred to support democratic republics.
The great democracies were birthed in revolution and against entrenched opposition too, the success rate was much higher. I'm a practical man user and I value practical results. Communism just has a bad track record.
Jonathan Howard
>Trotsky was a terrorist that worked with the Nazis to try and overthrow the USSR.
No, scarce goods are possessed in any system of economic organization, including communism and feudalism. A neo-monarchist or a communist can justify what capitalism calls theft, but capitalism cannot justify it, and insofar as one is willing to violate private property, one is not an ideological capitalist, just as insofar as one gets into bar fights, one is not an ideological pacifist.
Hunter James
Liberal democracy had a huge number of failed revolutions before it took hold too, just look at how totally chaotic the French Revolution was and how long it took (and how many lives were lost) before actual functional democracy was established in France. It was absolute turmoil for a hundred years.
Blake Gray
>the success rate was much higher No it wasn't, capitalism has been defeated by socialism (and aristocracy, see Napoleon) numerous times. Furthermore, success rate is irrelevant, the fact is that capitalism has inherent contradictions that will inevitably keep leading to proletarian revolution.
So there are virtually no capitalists on Earth by your ruling then, and certainly no capitalist nations. You've pretty much disqualified yourself from arguing with me at this point, you are requiring a level of purity with regards to what you consider "capitalist" that no real life examples can even be given, because everyone at some point gets into a property dispute, especially nations.
Camden Murphy
Trotsky was objectively an anti-Stalin terrorist by his own admission and his efforts did quite effectively help the Nazis gain an edge over the USSR.
>when you lose an argument and resort to death threats good one lol
anyway I'm done in this thread I need to make dinner and I can't take answering another massive string of captchas before posting, good discussion lads
>So there are virtually no capitalists on Earth by your ruling then My "ruling" is logical deduction based on the definition of capitalism. It is not reliant on characterizing a majority of the population as "capitalists," something communists are obviously prone to doing, since capitalism is their boogeyman - they tend to use the word too loosely.
Matthew Williams
because that wasn't real communism
Camden Wilson
France was a fucking mess true, but the transition in Britain and America was *relatively* painless and successful, as far as revolutions go. It worked, living standards and popular representation both rose. Worth it.
Living standards, popular representation and national stability have not been features of communist societies. Not yet demonstrated worth.
Jayden Martinez
>no source Pinochet is highly regarded by chileans. His children have popular support in politics
Tyler Miller
Yeah, whoever manged to turn the 3.1 million deaths from the Bengal Famine into 10 million must be doing some impressive mental gymnastics!
